Diversity declining in baseball

[novasteve]

Tom Haudricourt - Diversity in baseball declining


No doubt I will be seeing shortly an article that there aren't enough asians and latin americans in the NBA, right?

Oh wait, liberals are racist hypocrites. My bad. Forgot.

 

[TheOldSchool]

Umm, what?

 

[Rozman]

Young blacks are not as interested in baseball as in the past.
I'm sure the lefties here will find some racist angle to attribute that to.
Because it's always whitey's fault.

 

[JoeB131]

Young blacks are not as interested in baseball as in the past.
I'm sure the lefties here will find some racist angle to attribute that to.
Because it's always whitey's fault.

I don't think it's a racist attribute.

I think the problem is, baseball is, well, kind of boring, when you get right down to it.

It's a nice, lazy summer game to watch.

But if you are athletically inclined, football and basketball are more lucrative and more exciting.

 

[Rozman]

Except the Libs here look for anything they can to blame on race...
They get that from their Leader....

 

[Stephanie]

holy smokes, I wonder what they will come up with for why blacks don't like snow skiing..

they better force them to become more "diverse" in that..

 

[JoeB131]

Except the Libs here look for anything they can to blame on race...
They get that from their Leader....

Then how come the only people here I ever see complaining about it are folks like you and Staphinfection?

 

[rightwinger]

American blacks do not want to play baseball. It is no longer considered cool

 

[midcan5]

It's sorta ironic that the right would consider this a racism discussion but truly consistent with their constant finger pointing. Coincidentally just this weekend I heard from my conservative friends that Jimmie Rollins thought it had something to do with the missing father. That played right into prevalent racist attitudes. Black family, no father. Everyone forgets the single white mother. Rollins also thought it was marketing, no glam was his pov. The first point was dads and sons played baseball together. Now I am of an older generation and my dad was a talented ball player who stopped playing because of WWII. Did our dad play baseball with us, heck no, he was busy working to support all us brats. How many dads have time after work and is this more valuable than other activities between parents and children?

My brothers and I played lots and I still play with my married sons when we get a chance, mostly just catch. How many remember taping broken bats, electric tape covered baseballs, gloves so worn shoelaces held them together. If you wanted to play you did. Electronics has changed that but still baseball can be played if you can find enough space etc to play. But....

If we want to explain things so simply consider why are there so few black hockey players? Or Asian tennis players? Or Black swimmers - cities have public pools surely Blacks can swim? Or even white basketball players? I've noticed today more than in the past that sports is organized, structured and has become in lots of places an upper class activity. While less than one percent ever make it big, sports has an image and following that astounds me. Maybe I am missing something in this discussion but my take is lots of factors enter into creating the pro athlete and most of the discussions seem off base.

For fun I once wondered why the Olympics didn't include the sports we city boys played? http://www.usmessageboard.com/writing/204748-an-essay-contest-2.html#post5513278

Additional commentary.

"Jack Roosevelt Robinson was born in Cairo, Georgia in 1919 to a family of sharecroppers. His mother, Mallie Robinson, single-handedly raised Jackie and her four other children. They were the only black family on their block, and the prejudice they encountered only strengthened their bond. From this humble beginning would grow the first baseball player to break Major League Baseball's color barrier that segregated the sport for more than 50 years."

Jackie Robinson - The Official Site

Below is Rollins Comment, I would have to ask what sport isn't? or why?

"JR: There are a number of factors. First of all, it starts at home. If you’re growing up in single- parent homes, it makes it that much tougher to go play baseball. Baseball is a game usually introduced by the father to the son, or to the daughter. But if you only have one parent, who has to work, you could have love for the game, but you just don’t have time for it. And a kid can’t play baseball by himself."
[..]
"JR: Exactly. For kids -- I mean, don’t get me wrong. Some kids only have RBI. But we’re talking about in the big scheme of things, to get the numbers up, everything helps but marketing is going to be number one. Once you get outside the family issues, without marketing it doesn’t matter. It really doesn’t matter."

Philadelphia Phillies Jimmy Rollins with strong words on race and baseball; notes on NY Mets and Yankees; Greinke hurt in fight | New York Daily News

 

[Stephanie]

good grief...^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Very interesting. You say that you notice today more than in the past that sports seems to be highly structured, organized and geared towards upper class. You also mention the Olympics in your response. Let me suggest another explanation here. I believe that America was at the top of her game in the 80's in the Sports world. We crushed the Soviets at Lake Placid while the entire world cheered on the USA Hockey team! Anyone who has not seen the movie, Miracle, with Kurt Russell should rent it because this game was historical in many ways.

The Soviets were utterly humiliated when an American coach ripped a page out of their own play book and used it on them full on. The results were devastating. Soviets were crushed by the American Hockey team during the Olympics at Lake Placid 1980.

The humiliation was so great that the Soviets sent their own people into our colleges and universities - inflitrated the politics of how we select teams over here and behind the scenes implemented something called "the dream teams"... according to top coaches in the USA this is NOT the way to pick a team and the USA has never again had a team such as that Hockey team because of it. The Russians could not beat us on the ice so they went behind the scenes to make sure the USA would no longer select teams as they did for that American Hockey Team.

If you have not seen the movie you won't understand what I am getting at. You have to see the attitude of these Soviets and the oppression the Soviet coach used over his team. It crushed their spirits and they were not able to beat the spirit of the Americans. There are many important lessons we can learn from that period and it would probably serve us well to go back and examine what we were doing before and get back to it. - Jeremiah

 

[RoadVirus]

It isn't just about race. Baseball has been in decline for everyone for a long time, even before the Steroid scandals. I believe it started after the strike in the 90's.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Major League Baseball has, for decades now, been setting up youth summer Baseball camps in Mexico, Central and South America to foster and recruit players from those regions.

You see any of that in American Black neighborhoods?

 

[Katzndogz]

Major League Baseball has, for decades now, been setting up youth summer Baseball camps in Mexico, Central and South America to foster and recruit players from those regions.

You see any of that in American Black neighborhoods?

They are! No one learned their lesson from Fernando Valenzuela did they?

 

[skookerasbil]

Oh Gawd.......of course this was coming. Now its the blacks dont play baseball due to the root causes. And I saw a gnome creeping around my backyard last night carrying a miniature AR-15!!! In fact, I was able to get a shot on my cell phone while he was engaged in targt practice........



People are so tired of this lame-ass crap. Know the saying, "Picked up his bat and ball and went home!!". This is........"Bat and ball fAiL!!!"

Its so sad that black people almost to a person believe the established narrative our their culture......buy it hook, line and stinker 100% of the time.



not winning.

 

[Esmeralda]

Except the Libs here look for anything they can to blame on race...
They get that from their Leader....

Oh, give it a rest.

 

[Esmeralda]

It's sorta ironic that the right would consider this a racism discussion but truly consistent with their constant finger pointing. Coincidentally just this weekend I heard from my conservative friends that Jimmie Rollins thought it had something to do with the missing father. That played right into prevalent racist attitudes. Black family, no father. Everyone forgets the single white mother. Rollins also thought it was marketing, no glam was his pov. The first point was dads and sons played baseball together. Now I am of an older generation and my dad was a talented ball player who stopped playing because of WWII. Did our dad play baseball with us, heck no, he was busy working to support all us brats. How many dads have time after work and is this more valuable than other activities between parents and children?

My brothers and I played lots and I still play with my married sons when we get a chance, mostly just catch. How many remember taping broken bats, electric tape covered baseballs, gloves so worn shoelaces held them together. If you wanted to play you did. Electronics has changed that but still baseball can be played if you can find enough space etc to play. But....

If we want to explain things so simply consider why are there so few black hockey players? Or Asian tennis players? Or Black swimmers - cities have public pools surely Blacks can swim? Or even white basketball players? I've noticed today more than in the past that sports is organized, structured and has become in lots of places an upper class activity. While less than one percent ever make it big, sports has an image and following that astounds me. Maybe I am missing something in this discussion but my take is lots of factors enter into creating the pro athlete and most of the discussions seem off base.

For fun I once wondered why the Olympics didn't include the sports we city boys played? http://www.usmessageboard.com/writing/204748-an-essay-contest-2.html#post5513278

Additional commentary.

"Jack Roosevelt Robinson was born in Cairo, Georgia in 1919 to a family of sharecroppers. His mother, Mallie Robinson, single-handedly raised Jackie and her four other children. They were the only black family on their block, and the prejudice they encountered only strengthened their bond. From this humble beginning would grow the first baseball player to break Major League Baseball's color barrier that segregated the sport for more than 50 years."

Jackie Robinson - The Official Site

Below is Rollins Comment, I would have to ask what sport isn't? or why?

"JR: There are a number of factors. First of all, it starts at home. If you’re growing up in single- parent homes, it makes it that much tougher to go play baseball. Baseball is a game usually introduced by the father to the son, or to the daughter. But if you only have one parent, who has to work, you could have love for the game, but you just don’t have time for it. And a kid can’t play baseball by himself."
[..]
"JR: Exactly. For kids -- I mean, don’t get me wrong. Some kids only have RBI. But we’re talking about in the big scheme of things, to get the numbers up, everything helps but marketing is going to be number one. Once you get outside the family issues, without marketing it doesn’t matter. It really doesn’t matter."

Philadelphia Phillies Jimmy Rollins with strong words on race and baseball; notes on NY Mets and Yankees; Greinke hurt in fight | New York Daily News

My father never played baseball or any other sports with us. He taught us to ride bikes and made sure we had Red Cross swimming lessons. In summer, he took us swimming in the local river. When possible, we spent some weekends at the beach and he swam with us in the sea and taught us to body surf. Swimming and body surfing are the only athletic activites my dad did with any of us. I played baseball in school. My brother was in Little League for a while, but as an adult, had no interest in sports.

There are probably a lot of variables as to why young black males are not as interested in baseball as football or basketball. Maybe it's the college scholarships? Much more prevalent in those sports than in baseball. But I think it has little to do with one or two parent familes or dad's teaching their boys to play baseball.

I think it is just a myth that dads teach their boys to play baseball. Being a dad doesn't mean you're interested in baseball. Maybe you're interested in football or basketball or hockey or tennis or swimming. It isn't dependent on race; it's dependent on the individual. Also has nothing to do with one or two parent familes. A single female parent can put her kids in Little League if she wants them to play baseball.

 

[midcan5]

Very interesting. You say that you notice today more than in the past that sports seems to be highly structured, organized and geared towards upper class. You also mention the Olympics in your response. Let me suggest another explanation here. I believe that America was at the top of her game in the 80's in the Sports world. We crushed the Soviets at Lake Placid while the entire world cheered on the USA Hockey team! Anyone who has not seen the movie, Miracle, with Kurt Russell should rent it because this game was historical in many ways.

The Soviets were utterly humiliated when an American coach ripped a page out of their own play book and used it on them full on. The results were devastating. Soviets were crushed by the American Hockey team during the Olympics at Lake Placid 1980.

The humiliation was so great that the Soviets sent their own people into our colleges and universities - inflitrated the politics of how we select teams over here and behind the scenes implemented something called "the dream teams"... according to top coaches in the USA this is NOT the way to pick a team and the USA has never again had a team such as that Hockey team because of it. The Russians could not beat us on the ice so they went behind the scenes to make sure the USA would no longer select teams as they did for that American Hockey Team.

If you have not seen the movie you won't understand what I am getting at. You have to see the attitude of these Soviets and the oppression the Soviet coach used over his team. It crushed their spirits and they were not able to beat the spirit of the Americans. There are many important lessons we can learn from that period and it would probably serve us well to go back and examine what we were doing before and get back to it. - Jeremiah

Jeremiah, that is an amazing comment, I seriously cannot even believe you believe that. My comment about the upper classes and sports is based on how important soccer and other sports have become, and how expensive and time consuming they can be. I quit HS baseball to work, had nothing to do with outside influences. Today I know lots of children whose parents shuttle them everywhere and buy them lots of costly paraphernalia. My Olympics for city kids was mostly tongue in cheek, Wiffle ball is still played, anyone know of any half ball or hose ball games?

I do agree with you that Russia attached enormous prestige to sports, consider too Nazi Germany. Jesse Owens showed them a thing or two. In an ideology driven nation it seems all activities must excel, my nation is better than your nation. A rather odd sentiment given the diversity of talents spread among a diversity of people. In America today sport's talk may have finally passed the weather as the primary topic of conversation.

 

[rightwinger]

Very interesting. You say that you notice today more than in the past that sports seems to be highly structured, organized and geared towards upper class. You also mention the Olympics in your response. Let me suggest another explanation here. I believe that America was at the top of her game in the 80's in the Sports world. We crushed the Soviets at Lake Placid while the entire world cheered on the USA Hockey team! Anyone who has not seen the movie, Miracle, with Kurt Russell should rent it because this game was historical in many ways.

The Soviets were utterly humiliated when an American coach ripped a page out of their own play book and used it on them full on. The results were devastating. Soviets were crushed by the American Hockey team during the Olympics at Lake Placid 1980.

The humiliation was so great that the Soviets sent their own people into our colleges and universities - inflitrated the politics of how we select teams over here and behind the scenes implemented something called "the dream teams"... according to top coaches in the USA this is NOT the way to pick a team and the USA has never again had a team such as that Hockey team because of it. The Russians could not beat us on the ice so they went behind the scenes to make sure the USA would no longer select teams as they did for that American Hockey Team.

If you have not seen the movie you won't understand what I am getting at. You have to see the attitude of these Soviets and the oppression the Soviet coach used over his team. It crushed their spirits and they were not able to beat the spirit of the Americans. There are many important lessons we can learn from that period and it would probably serve us well to go back and examine what we were doing before and get back to it. - Jeremiah

The Miracle on Ice team was a fluke. It was not an example of the triumph of the US sports system over the Soviet system. If we played them ten times, the Soviets would have won eight. You have no concept of athletic competition in the 80s. The US was a hodgepodge of amateurism that performed poorly on the international stage

Our athletes today are much better trained in most sports

 

[LoneLaugher]

I have a theory.

Over the past 20 years or so, youth baseball in America has taken a new direction. The primary place to play used to be Little League, Pony and Babe Ruth......local organizations which have a "must play" mentality and a very low cost of participation.

Kids would play 25 games a year in their local rec league....and if they were good, get chosen for the all star team. A kid could play the whole season for the cost of a few movie tickets. And..he's be just as experienced as the other kids when it came time to try out for the HS team.

Now....if you are not a participant on a "travel team", you are not likely to be trained well enough to make your high school team. These teams play 60 to 100 games per year and the training is much more vigorous than rec ball. Coaches are paid. It costs about $100 per month to play on a team that will give your player a chance to play at a high level. In addition.....there are travel expenses ( gas, lodging, meals ). It is cost prohibitive for many of all races.

Those kids who have parents with the means to support them playing travel ball are more likely to pursue the sport into and beyond high school.