Zone1 Do most Jews believe they killed Jesus?

[ding]

oh----was that written into Roman law?

It was written into history. The early Christians were persecuted for their religious beliefs.

 

[Blues Man]

I.said.I.got.it. Thank you.

You're welcome

 

[ding]

whose law is that?

Pharisees.

 

[ding]

I don't want to stir up a hornet's nest of controversy here, and this should probably go on a thread of its own... but it seems that one of the main differences between Judaism and Christianity is how we view the law. From a Christian perspective, adherence to the law in and of itself does not save anyone. Why, because NO ONE can obey God's law perfectly, it is impossible for us imperfect humans to always act perfectly... and of course history has shown that time and time again.

The law is like a mirror that shows people their sin, and their need for redemption / forgiveness. To sum it up, we are saved by God's grace, through faith, not by being a "good person"... because the bible says that no one is good.... and again, all we have to do is look around at the world to see that that's true. If we think we are always good, we are lying to ourselves.

Speaking of the law, this video is really good....I highly recommend watching it, especially those who have a different view on the law.

But isn't everything God created good?

 

[ding]

That's an excellent book, one of my favorites of all. He explains things SO well.

I wholeheartedly agree.

 

[Indeependent]

That sounds very much like a rationalization.

God: Adam did you eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil?​

​

Adam: The woman you made gave it to me.​

And man has been rationalizing he didn't do wrong ever since. The strength of the Bible is in it not sugar coating the truth. Once we start to sugar coat the truth, the truth begins to lose all meaning and value.

Tell that to God.

 

[hobelim]

Religious beliefs have little to do with truth or even logic.

That may be true but in the OT and NT hard learned lessons of the past, the teaching of the stories, is buried and hidden and every fantastical account or supernatural event that contradicts reality, even the sensibilities of an 8 year old child, is deliberately placed there like a giant X on a treasure map marking the exact place where something of great value, a truth about reality and people on earth, the heights and depths of their potential, is buried and hidden.

If you look and look and keep on looking you will find it. If you don't, you won't find anything of value.

 

[ding]

Christians worship a god that is not the same god Jews worship.

That's what the Gnostic Christians believed too. They couldn't reconcile the God of the OT with the God of the NT. A lot of people have that problem. It's not a new problem.

 

[Blues Man]

That may be true but in the OT and NT hard learned lessons of the past, the teaching of the stories, is buried and hidden and every fantastical account that contradicts reality, even the sensibilities of an 8 year old child, is deliberately placed there like a giant X on a treasure map marking the exact place where something of great value, the truth about reality, is buried and hidden.

If you look and look and keep on looking you will find it. If you don't, you won't find anything of value.

There is nothing in the bible except the religious dogma that cannot be found other places.

 

[ding]

Tell that to God.

He already knows.

 

[Meriweather]

From a Christian perspective, adherence to the law in and of itself does not save anyone.

Have you thought about the purpose of the Law? Perhaps irosie, Lisa, or Indeependent can expand on it, but my understanding is that it is to keep continually focused on God and to remember our duty to Him.

What is that duty?

 

[hobelim]

And man has been rationalizing he didn't do wrong ever since. The strength of the Bible is in it not sugar coating the truth. Once we start to sugar coat the truth, the truth begins to lose all meaning and value.

Then "we" take this bread, made by human hands, and it will become for 'us' the body of Christ.

Yum.

 

[ding]

That may be true but in the OT and NT hard learned lessons of the past, the teaching of the stories, is buried and hidden and every fantastical account that contradicts reality, even the sensibilities of an 8 year old child, is deliberately placed there like a giant X on a treasure map marking the exact place where something of great value, the truth about reality, is buried and hidden.

If you look and look and keep on looking you will find it. If you don't, you won't find anything of value.

Are you going to secularize God now?

 

[Blues Man]

Then "we" will take this bread, made by human hands, and it will become for 'us' the body of Christ.

Yum.

I'm vegan so I'll pass

 

[ding]

Then "we" will take this bread, made by human hands, and it will become for 'us' the body of Christ. Yum.

Read Christ's words. Very explicit. Very graphic.

 

[surada]

Religious beliefs have little to do with truth or even logic. Saying that Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the same god is obviously not a reasonable position. There are obvious schisms that make it quite clear to anyone looking objectively.

Of course they worship the same God. Allah is just god in Arabic like Gott is God in German.

 

[Meriweather]

Tell that to God.

A bit off topic, but I wanted to ask you since I read something both ways. David wanted to know whether his sins had been forgiven. He was told that he could know all his sins except one were forgiven, but that he would have to wait until after death to know whether that other sin was forgiven. Have you read/heard anything about that?

 

[ding]

right----David did something wrong----he was not PERFECT What is your
point?

I'm pretty sure David not being perfect IS the point. There's no need to sugar coat it.

 

[ding]

right, so? The scriptural writings are very clear about it.
If you keep reading, you might note that thereafter he had a
miserable life-----sorta like Nathan predicted he would. But
he trudged on. I find the writing to be excellent and realistic
exhibiting very intricate character development. Remember
Moses? He was not perfect either. Muhummad was perfect

Successful behaviors naturally lead to success just as failed behaviors naturally lead to failure. The law of compensation never sleeps.

 

[Meriweather]

I'm pretty sure David not being perfect IS the point.

Someone noted that we could relate to David because he was not perfect. I still have a problem with that. There is not being perfect, and then there is committing adultery and having someone killed. I can very much relate to not being perfect, but I have a hard time relating to adultery and having someone killed because I wanted something that was theirs.

I don't think Hezekiah was perfect, but I can relate to his imperfections better than I can relate to David's.