Zone1 Do most Jews believe they killed Jesus?

[norwegen]

Jesus wanted to lift them above the yoke of Roman oppression. Your reading about government and the poor is too narrow and misses the political climate of the times. The various Jewish factions we're battling each other and the Romans. It was a sure path to disaster.

Remember, Jesus told them his kingdom was not of this world.

Read A Palestinian Christian's Cry for Reconciliation by Ateef.

What Roman oppression? The anti-Roman sentiments of the Zealots seemed to come not so much from oppression as from nationalism. And not all Jews allied with the Zealots.

 

[Indeependent]

It's probably one of the most important points in Genesis. I'm sorry you don't believe man's failure to be accountable by rationalizing he did right when he did wrong is important.

David said he committed an intentional sin beyond his control (chate).
I don’t know why you can’t digest that.

 

[norwegen]

norwegen

Nope but Jesus was living in the real world with real people. Remember when Jerusalem was under siege by foreign armies, he had told his followers that when they saw abomination of desolation spoken of in Daniel they should flee to the mountains. Was that political?

When he told the Jews, render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's was that political?

Just to be clear, though, if the abomination of desolation spoken of in Daniel was at the hands of Antiochus IV, it wasn't the one that Jesus warned his followers of.

 

[ding]

David said he committed an intentional sin beyond his control (chate).
I don’t know why you can’t digest that.

I wasn't commenting on that at all. I was commenting on your sugar coating of David's sins. You want to pretend it wasn't adultery because of some technicality, but there is no excuse for adultery.

Who knew Israelites had hall passes. Look... I didn't cheat on my wife, I had a hall pass. Sorry buddy, hall pass or no, that's cheating on your wife. And let's not get started on the fact that you tried to cover it up by sending her husband to his death.

 

[norwegen]

The sermon on the mount is about Roman occupation and oppressive Roman laws.

How so? Did the Romans have prophets?

 

[Indeependent]

I wasn't commenting on that at all. I was commenting on your sugar coating of David's sins. You want to pretend it wasn't adultery because of some technicality, but there is no excuse for adultery.

Who knew Israelites had hall passes. Look... I didn't cheat on my wife, I had a hall pass. Sorry buddy, hall pass or no, that's cheating on your wife. And let's not get started on the fact that you tried to cover it up by sending her husband to his death.

You can discuss that with Arbarbanel and the other sages who were advisors to the kings of Europe as I’m sure their Torah knowledge is lacking compared to yours.

 

[ding]

You can discuss that with Arbarbanel and the other sages who were advisors to the kings of Europe as I’m sure their Torah knowledge is lacking compared to yours.

The Torah is useless unless people actually take the lessons to heart instead of sugar coating it to make themselves feel better. Confront reality.

 

[ding]

It is a great truth that great men can sometimes do bad things.

 

[Lisa558]

The Torah is useless unless people actually take the lessons to heart instead of sugar coating it to make themselves feel better. Confront reality.

And you are the one to tell Jews what the reality of the Torah is? And that otherwise it’s “useless”?

And then you complain that Jews have had a negative reaction to you? If this is the type of holier-than-though “advice” you are giving them, I understand why they are put off.

 

[surada]

How so? Did the Romans have prophets?

I don't understand the question.

 

[Indeependent]

The Torah is useless unless people actually take the lessons to heart instead of sugar coating it to make themselves feel better. Confront reality.

Are you retarded?
David said what he did was wrong and nobody did it from then on and bragged about it.

 

[ding]

And you are the one to tell Jews what the reality of the Torah is?

And then you complain that Jews have had a negative reaction to you? If this is the type of holier-than-though “advice” you are giving them, I understand why they are put off.

I'm not claiming there's anything special about me if that's what you are trying to get at. Growth filled communities should explore all sides of an issue to arrive at objective truth. No one has exclusive rights to truth that's why all voices should be heard. I'm one of the voices. So who are you to say my voice should not be heard?

It takes two to tango, if you want to believe it's all on me, that's your mistake to make. I can be quite reasonable.

 

[surada]

Just to be clear, though, if the abomination of desolation spoken of in Daniel was at the hands of Antiochus IV, it wasn't thee one that Jesus warned his followers of.

Right. That was the first Abomination of Desolation when Antiochus IV Epiphanies defiled the temple in his efforts to Hellenize the Jews.

 

[ding]

Are you retarded?
David said what he did was wrong and nobody did it from then on and bragged about it.

You tried to sugar coat it. That's the extent of my comments. I'm not commenting on what David did. I am commenting on what you did.

And no, I'm not mentally handicapped. That's just you lashing out at me because you are angry because I challenged you on what you said.

 

[Indeependent]

You tried to sugar coat it. That's the extent of my comments. I'm not commenting on what David did. I am commenting on what you did.

And no, I'm not mentally handicapped. That's just you lashing out at me because you are angry I challenged you on what you said.

What did I try to sugar coat?
Everyone knows right from wrong and a Moshiach that isn’t a “perfect lamb” reflects reality.
The “perfect lamb” expectation resulted in 100s of millions being murdered.

 

[norwegen]

I don't understand the question.

The Sermon on the Mount includes a reference to Israel's prophets and their persecution, even long before Rome (Mt 5:11-12).

Why would Jesus blame anyone else for Israel's waywardness? Why would he blame Jews in the Olivet Discourse, his parables, and elsewhere, and then in one sermon shift his animosity to someone else?

 

[surada]

What Roman oppression? The anti-Roman sentiments of the Zealots seemed to come not so much from oppression as from nationalism. And not all Jews allied with the Zealots.

The

What Roman oppression? The anti-Roman sentiments of the Zealots seemed to come not so much from oppression as from nationalism. And not all Jews allied with the Zealots.

The Roman law was that a soldier could demand any Jew carry his pack a mile or that he could strike a Jew or demand his coat.

 

[surada]

The Sermon on the Mount includes a reference to Israel's prophets and their persecution, even long before Rome (Mt 5:11-12).

Why would Jesus blame anyone else for Israel's waywardness? Why would he blame Jews in the Olivet Discourse, his parables, and elsewhere, and then in one sermon shift his animosity to someone else?

Seems to me that the beatitudes we're not about Roman laws.

 

[surada]

Jesus told them not to defy Roman law.

Turning the other cheek? What it meant in its historical context < The Scholars Corner

Most of Jesus' counsel about not resisting evil had to to do with not resisting Roman authority. A Roman solider could legally require you to carry his pack 1 stadia; Jesus said then to carry it two.

www.scholarscorner.com

 

[norwegen]

The
The Roman law was that a soldier could demand any Jew carry his pack a mile or that he could strike a Jew or demand his coat.

Soldiers, maybe. Such a policy was not exclusive to ancient Rome. Roman citizens couldn't do that, could they? And the soldiers didn't just target Jews, did they?