Do the rich earn their income?

[Sundial]

Not that this will matter much this late in the discussion, but....

Point 1:
Let's say I want to open a brewery, because I love making beer. I can't afford it all my self, and can't get a loan bif enough, so I go looking for investors. Those investors will earn money back on that money and not work at all for it. Where's the problem?

Point 2:
If you own any stocks you don't work for any money you make off of them. The same goes for your 401k, savings bonds, CD's, etc. So where's the problem?

There is no problem... Except for this: we have a system that is set up so that some people have large incomes without contributing anything, while others contribute more than their share.

I'm not asking anyone to do anything about it. I'm asking people to recognize that the situation exists.

That some people do a lot for little pay, while others do little (or nothing) for obscene gobs of money seems self-evident to me.

But conservative believe a lot of things that defy common sense.

The conservative unwillingness to recognize the difference between one's income and one's contribution is what allows them to thoughtlessly disparage the poor, the working class, and the middle class. It's what encourages them to see paying their taxes as "stealing", and it's one of the reasons they're so angry all the time. It's what gives them the gall to call the rich "job creators".

It's self-serving, willful ignorance that ultimately doesn't even serve them all that well.

 

[kwc57]

Not that this will matter much this late in the discussion, but....

Point 1:
Let's say I want to open a brewery, because I love making beer. I can't afford it all my self, and can't get a loan bif enough, so I go looking for investors. Those investors will earn money back on that money and not work at all for it. Where's the problem?

Point 2:
If you own any stocks you don't work for any money you make off of them. The same goes for your 401k, savings bonds, CD's, etc. So where's the problem?

There is no problem... Except for this: we have a system that is set up so that some people have large incomes without contributing anything, while others contribute more than their share.

I'm not asking anyone to do anything about it. I'm asking people to recognize that the situation exists.

That some people do a lot for little pay, while others do little (or nothing) for obscene gobs of money seems self-evident to me.

But conservative believe a lot of things that defy common sense.

The conservative unwillingness to recognize the difference between one's income and one's contribution is what allows them to thoughtlessly disparage the poor, the working class, and the middle class. It's what encourages them to see paying their taxes as "stealing", and it's one of the reasons they're so angry all the time. It's what gives them the gall to call the rich "job creators".

It's self-serving, willful ignorance that ultimately doesn't even serve them all that well.

The only people not carrying part of the load are the 50% of Americans paying NO income tax at all. The majority of those people vote liberal. The producing middle class is largly conservative and vote that way. You see, they believe in being able to work and accumulate wealth over time and pass it on to their family. The beielve in presonal responsibility. The folks who don't, get jealous that the producers are so "lucky" or angry because "their wealth" has been stolen and demand that the gubmint confiscate it and give them their fair share. Screw you!

 

[bripat9643]

It's not "according to liberals.". It's the definition of the words..

It's purely a legalism coined by the IRS. It has no moral connotations.

That's the problem with libturds: they can't support their idiocies using English correctly, so they abuse it and mangle it. Before long we won't understand what we're saying to each other.

 

[Sundial]

.

My ex works for a guy who was given a small two man operation insurance company as a wedding present by his father-in-law back in the early 60's. Given to him as a gift. He could have run a sleepy little insurance company for the rest of his life. Instead he worked his ass off building the company up and then used his capital to create a mortgage lending and servicing company and later a statewide bank along with other holdings along the way and is a multi-millionaire. He's semi-retired now and his son is running the joint. Of course, to hear some talk here, neither man works or produces anything.

I don't know if you noticed, but the discussion here is about people who don't work for a living. Do you see how the businessmen in your example don't fit that category?

On a side note, if I got an insurance company as a wedding gift, I'd appreciate how that gave me a leg up in life. Wouldn't you?

 

[Sundial]

Not that this will matter much this late in the discussion, but....

Point 1:
Let's say I want to open a brewery, because I love making beer. I can't afford it all my self, and can't get a loan bif enough, so I go looking for investors. Those investors will earn money back on that money and not work at all for it. Where's the problem?

Point 2:
If you own any stocks you don't work for any money you make off of them. The same goes for your 401k, savings bonds, CD's, etc. So where's the problem?

There is no problem... Except for this: we have a system that is set up so that some people have large incomes without contributing anything, while others contribute more than their share.

I'm not asking anyone to do anything about it. I'm asking people to recognize that the situation exists.

That some people do a lot for little pay, while others do little (or nothing) for obscene gobs of money seems self-evident to me.

But conservative believe a lot of things that defy common sense.

The conservative unwillingness to recognize the difference between one's income and one's contribution is what allows them to thoughtlessly disparage the poor, the working class, and the middle class. It's what encourages them to see paying their taxes as "stealing", and it's one of the reasons they're so angry all the time. It's what gives them the gall to call the rich "job creators".

It's self-serving, willful ignorance that ultimately doesn't even serve them all that well.

The only people not carrying part of the load are the 50% of Americans paying NO income tax at all. The majority of those people vote liberal. The producing middle class is largly conservative and vote that way. You see, they believe in being able to work and accumulate wealth over time and pass it on to their family. The beielve in presonal responsibility. The folks who don't, get jealous that the producers are so "lucky" or angry because "their wealth" has been stolen and demand that the gubmint confiscate it and give them their fair share. Screw you!

Angry much?

 

[bripat9643]

How exactly did Paris Hilton become rich? Or for that matter, Donald Trump?

How do YOU think Donald Trump became rich, Shallow?

Through inheritance.

No, he only got a few million from inheritance. He made the rest.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Ass whipped?

By what?

He proved my point entirely.

Of course I did, I showed that Trump inherited his wealth and didn't do a damned thing to earn it, just as you claimed;

Oh, wait.....

ROFL

What a buffoon.

 

[bripat9643]

Then you should be able to name them.

Big ones.

Go on.

Dick Fuld. When did he make any investments?

How about..Lloyd Blankfein? Which one was his?

And James P. Gorman? When did he belly up to the bar?

What about Duncan L. Niederauer? That's a guy I actually met. When was the last time he opened his wallet?

How about Trump? That's a fave. You think he uses his own cashola?

Most of these guys don't ever touch their personal wealth to make investments.

Your questions are stupid. For one thing, the invesments people make are personnel information unless they are buying and selling stock in the companies they work for. In the case of Dick Fuld, a good chunk of the money he has acquired was "EARNED" income according to the definition you and rdean are using. He recieved an enormous salary for being a CEO. The same goes for James P. Gorman, Lloyd Blankfein and Duncan L. Niederauer.

Which do you object to, "earned income" or "unearned income?"

Like all real estate developers, Trump builds his projects by borrowing money using the resulting development as collateral for the loan. Do you object to that arrangement? If you do, then how do you propose to get houses built for turds like you to live in?

 

[Uncensored2008]

There is no problem... Except for this: we have a system that is set up so that some people have large incomes without contributing anything, while others contribute more than their share.

Who do you think contributes more Paris, the fry cook at McDonalds or Donald Trump? What is the contribution of each? How does it affect the lives of others?

That some people do a lot for little pay, while others do little (or nothing) for obscene gobs of money seems self-evident to me.

You were born lucky, Paris. You COULD give all your wealth away, to assuage (oh look it up!) your guilt. But it appears you want to be charitable with other peoples money, which is the leftist way.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Like all real estate developers, Trump builds his projects by borrowing money using the resulting development as collateral for the loan. Do you object to that arrangement? If you do, then how do you propose to get houses built for turds like you to live in?

I suspect Jimmy Carter and "Habitat for Humanity" built the place that Shallow lives in....

 

[bripat9643]

How do YOU think Donald Trump became rich, Shallow?

His old man left him a pantload.

trump was rich before that...

Yeah, he was rich, but now he's very very very very very RICH!

He multiplied his fortune by serveral orders of magnitude.

None of those liberal Hollywood imbeciles you admire ever did that.

 

[bripat9643]

Through inheritance.

Is that your final answer?

{Trump began his career at his father's company,[53] the Trump Organization, and initially concentrated on his father's preferred field of middle-class rental housing in Brooklyn, Queens, and Staten Island. One of Trump's first projects, while he was still in college, was the revitalization of the foreclosed Swifton Village apartment complex in Cincinnati, Ohio, which his father had purchased for $5.7 million in 1962. Trump became intimately involved in the project, personally flying in for a few days at a time to carry out landscaping and other low-level tasks. After $500,000 investment, Trump successfully turned a 1200-unit complex with a 66% vacancy rate to 100% occupancy within two years. The Trump Organization sold Swifton Village for $6.75 million in 1972.[54]}

Donald Trump - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jealousy and stupidity, the twin pillars of leftism....

I mean..do you read these things?

He didn't pay cash, moron. He borrowed most of the money.

 

[thereisnospoon]

According to the IRS, the answer is mostly not.

Of the richest of the rich only 6.5% of income was from working, as of 2007. The rest came from things like interest, dividends, and capital gains.

In other words, the kind of income you get without having to wake up in the morning.

Which raises the question: if the rich are consuming without working, who is doing their work for them?

Link

Workers which produce products or perform services. DUH!!!!!
Does it offend you that money can be used to make money?
If so, you're in the wrong country.
I find myself amused when people bitch and moan about investment income then act like shrews when the issue of pensions and 401k's getting hammered when the financial markets indeces fall. Those things, pension funds and 401k's are money which make more money for the owner of the account.

 

[MikeK]

[...]

The PRESIDENT you voted for--decided to attack these same small business people with his continual and on-growing threat that if they make 250K per year--he is going to throw them into the exact same tax bracket (39%) which is exactly what multi-billion dollar corporations pay. If you add in state and local taxes--you are taxing the hardest working, most innovative people in this country 50% or .50 cents on every dollar they earn.

[...]

The 39% is the pre-deduction rate. Note the pre-deduction rates in the following table:


The income tax rate of upper income levels:

1950 - 91%

1980 - 70%

1985 - 50%

1987 - 38%

2004 - 35%

http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/f...y-june2010.pdf

These rates are imposed in anticipation of the reduced percentage which will be paid after deductions and loopholes are applied. The typical reduction is around 50% That is why major corporations like GE, Exxon/Mobil, et al, have managed to pay zero tax to the U.S. Government in recent years -- and in some cases are paid subsidies by the taxpayers.

ExxonMobil paid no federal income tax in 2009. (Updated) | ThinkProgress

So don't assume the small business operator who is assessed 39% will pay anywhere near that rate.

 

[Sallow]

Ass whipped?

By what?

He proved my point entirely.

Of course I did, I showed that Trump inherited his wealth and didn't do a damned thing to earn it, just as you claimed;

Oh, wait.....

ROFL

What a buffoon.

That's what happened.


And?

Your wikithingie said as much.

 

[Sallow]

Is that your final answer?

{Trump began his career at his father's company,[53] the Trump Organization, and initially concentrated on his father's preferred field of middle-class rental housing in Brooklyn, Queens, and Staten Island. One of Trump's first projects, while he was still in college, was the revitalization of the foreclosed Swifton Village apartment complex in Cincinnati, Ohio, which his father had purchased for $5.7 million in 1962. Trump became intimately involved in the project, personally flying in for a few days at a time to carry out landscaping and other low-level tasks. After $500,000 investment, Trump successfully turned a 1200-unit complex with a 66% vacancy rate to 100% occupancy within two years. The Trump Organization sold Swifton Village for $6.75 million in 1972.[54]}

Donald Trump - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jealousy and stupidity, the twin pillars of leftism....

I mean..do you read these things?

He didn't pay cash, moron. He borrowed most of the money.

Um..made my point even mo' bettah.

What do you think would have happened had this venture failed?

Me or you? We'd lose are shirts.

Them? We'd lose are shirts.

The difference is that in both scenarios..the Trumps keep their shirts.

 

[bripat9643]

I mean..do you read these things?

I mean...do you have an IQ above 5?

Do any of the libs in here? I think the main prerequisite for being a lib is having a sub room temperature IQ. How else could anyone swallow all the bullshit they believe?

I've known 5-year-olds with more basic smarts than these idiots.

 

[thereisnospoon]

According to the IRS, the answer is mostly not.

Of the richest of the rich only 6.5% of income was from working, as of 2007. The rest came from things like interest, dividends, and capital gains.

In other words, the kind of income you get without having to wake up in the morning.

Which raises the question: if the rich are consuming without working, who is doing their work for them?

Link

Ah Geez--You can walk down your own main street. You will see doctors/dentist's office's--the guy who rebuilds car engines--your auto mechanic--your construction company--from A to Z--who bust their butts every single day of the week to bring a necessary service to this country and you. They are called small business people in this country and are also known as the largest employer of it.

The PRESIDENT you voted for--decided to attack these same small business people with his continual and on-growing threat that if they make 250K per year--he is going to throw them into the exact same tax bracket (39%) which is exactly what multi-billion dollar corporations pay. If you add in state and local taxes--you are taxing the hardest working, most innovative people in this country 50% or .50 cents on every dollar they earn.

This is the economic terrorist you have elected. And then your Harvard graduate--community organizer--most intellectual President ever--wonders where the "jobs" are?--

Small business in this country has tucked in like a turtle and is waiting for the threat to leave. And that threat is Barack Obama and his comrades in economic terrorism.

I can see which God you pray to.

Oh...So now small business is evil...I am a small business owner. I hope you fall backward on to a red hot poker, you socialist prick.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Did they steal it from you?

Some did. It's why we have financial collapse. They buy politicians to deregulate or change laws. It's how an economic meltdown can occur and no one arrested. These things don't happen by themselves. I thought everyone knew that.

How was the money "stolen"?
Anyway, you libs are a miracle. You spit and curse at anyone who makes generalizations and you do it all the time yourselves.
So every individual who works in finance is not pure as the driven snow. So what?
BTW, are you so sure that financial people are all of one political persuasion?

 

[Uncensored2008]

That's what happened.

ROFL

Wow are you a "Troth."


(Troll with a wit as quick as a sloth....)