Do we all agree yet that obamacare was always a single payer trojan horse?

[Mac1958]

That thing is such a stupid, horrific pig that I give the Dems the benefit of the doubt that they are not so dumb as to believe it would actually work.

So yeah, that would mean that Single Payer has been on their mind all along.

But the 2008 elections had long-term consequences. It gave the public something it didn't have before, and today's more pragmatic Republicans know that you just can't take something like that away. And that's why they're voting on Stupid, Horrific Pig 2.0 today. It's most likely too late to go back.
.

I agree the Dems knew exactly what would happen down the road once ObamaCare was instituted. It's my opinion we should stop struggling against the single payer universal coverage we will inevitably get, and just go for it. We deserve it. Then both sides of the aisle can start focusing on the real problem--why healthcare costs (not insurance) are so high.

I'd much rather see an expansion of the Medicare/Medicare Supplement/Medicare Advantage system to all, allowing for some dynamic free market competition and innovation.

But we agree, this is just untenable as it is. And I think we'd also agree that, at the heart of the problem, are national politicians.
.

 

[brummelben]

Universal coverage will never happen. Medicaid & medicare are going broke. Obamacare will die a slow death with hospitals and insurers going bankrupt. This could be a disaster for healthcare. The GOP and Dems will never agree on anything, ever...

How is Medicare going broke?

 

[Mac1958]

Q. Why is the PPACA not sustainable

A. Specifically, because ...

Anyone?

Because more and more insurers are finding it not worth pursuing, even the giants.

This is already leading to fewer and fewer choices for consumers.

Obviously.

Was this a trick question?
.

 

[brummelben]

Q. Why is the PPACA not sustainable

A. Specifically, because ...

Anyone?

Because more and more insurers are finding it not worth pursuing, even the giants.

This is already leading to fewer and fewer choices for consumers.

Obviously.

Was this a trick question?
.

It does need some adjustments, but republicans refuse. Its still a far better plan that what Congress is now considering

 

[Mac1958]

Q. Why is the PPACA not sustainable

A. Specifically, because ...

Anyone?

Because more and more insurers are finding it not worth pursuing, even the giants.

This is already leading to fewer and fewer choices for consumers.

Obviously.

Was this a trick question?
.

It does need some adjustments, but republicans refuse. Its still a far better plan that what Congress is now considering

This is a politically-driven ridiculous pig of a law that only could have been vomited out by politicians. I don't care which party ends up "winning", since both "plans" are crap.
.

 

[kyzr]

Universal coverage will never happen. Medicaid & medicare are going broke. Obamacare will die a slow death with hospitals and insurers going bankrupt. This could be a disaster for healthcare. The GOP and Dems will never agree on anything, ever...

How is Medicare going broke?

Just google "Medicare solvency" or similar searches, Medicare goes broke in 2028
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RS20946.pdf

 

[Skull Pilot]

Been saying it since it happened. The one thing that you cannot do politically is take away something from millions of people that have been GIVEN something. We know obama counted on this. They knew it would be next to impossible to take the insurance away from millions of people who have it. We also know that it is impossible to be sustained. Both things counted on and Grubber admitted this.

You're conceding the genius of Obama?

Interesting.

genius?

Single payer has failed everywhere it's been tried

yeah it's "genius" to actually want that

 

[brummelben]

Universal coverage will never happen. Medicaid & medicare are going broke. Obamacare will die a slow death with hospitals and insurers going bankrupt. This could be a disaster for healthcare. The GOP and Dems will never agree on anything, ever...

How is Medicare going broke?

Just google "Medicare solvency" or similar searches, Medicare goes broke in 2028
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RS20946.pdf

NOPE
Claims by some policymakers that the Medicare program is nearing “bankruptcy” are highly misleading. Although Medicare faces financing challenges, the program is not on the verge of bankruptcy or ceasing to operate. Such charges represent misunderstanding (or misrepresentation) of Medicare’s finances.

Medicare’s financing challenges would be much greater without the health reform law (the Affordable Care Act, or ACA), which substantially improved the program’s financial outlook. Repealing the ACA, a course of action promoted by some who simultaneously claim that the program is approaching “bankruptcy,” would worsen Medicare’s financial situation.

The 2016 report of Medicare’s trustees finds that Medicare’s Hospital Insurance (HI) trust fund will remain solvent — that is, able to pay 100 percent of the costs of the hospital insurance coverage that Medicare provides — through 2028. Even in 2028, when the HI trust fund is projected for exhaustion, incoming payroll taxes and other revenue will still be sufficient to pay 87 percent of Medicare hospital insurance costs.[1] The share of costs covered by dedicated revenues will decline slowly to 79 percent in 2040 and then rise gradually to 86 percent in 2090.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Q. Why is the PPACA not sustainable

A. Specifically, because ...

Anyone?

Because more and more insurers are finding it not worth pursuing, even the giants.

This is already leading to fewer and fewer choices for consumers.

Obviously.

Was this a trick question?
.

It does need some adjustments, but republicans refuse. Its still a far better plan that what Congress is now considering

This is a politically-driven ridiculous pig of a law that only could have been vomited out by politicians. I don't care which party ends up "winning", since both "plans" are crap.
.

What would you replace the PPACA with, at what cost and who would benefit and who would be left out? Of course you can't answer this, but neither can most of the members of the H. of Rep. (those who do won't tell you!)

The Q. is, what is most important to you, and others? Your bank account, or the health of you and your loved ones?

 

[percysunshine]

Been saying it since it happened. The one thing that you cannot do politically is take away something from millions of people that have been GIVEN something. We know obama counted on this. They knew it would be next to impossible to take the insurance away from millions of people who have it. We also know that it is impossible to be sustained. Both things counted on and Grubber admitted this.

One only has to look at Obama's foreign policy to realize he is an idiot. Planning something as intricate as a trojan horse is beyond him. He only plans clusterfucks.

 

[Rob37]

If Obamacare is as terrible as the opponents of it would have you believe,

why are those opponents apparently incapable of coming up with anything better?

Shouldn't that be easy?

Nobody has come up with any method of population control better than what Hitler did.

 

[Mac1958]

Q. Why is the PPACA not sustainable

A. Specifically, because ...

Anyone?

Because more and more insurers are finding it not worth pursuing, even the giants.

This is already leading to fewer and fewer choices for consumers.

Obviously.

Was this a trick question?
.

It does need some adjustments, but republicans refuse. Its still a far better plan that what Congress is now considering

This is a politically-driven ridiculous pig of a law that only could have been vomited out by politicians. I don't care which party ends up "winning", since both "plans" are crap.
.

What would you replace the PPACA with, at what cost and who would benefit and who would be left out? Of course you can't answer this, but neither can the members of the H. of Rep. (those who do won't tell you!)

The Q. is, what is most important to you, and others? Your bank account, or the health of you and your loved ones?

My short answer is in post 21, above.

My long answer is in post 378, here: ...but wait! I thought if I liked my plan I could keep my plan?!

Or post 16, here: ACA A Success?

Anything else?
.

 

[BoSoxGal]

Hopefully ACA will get us to Medicaid for all. It's certainly the most humane and cost effective approach to healthcare. Clearly even very conservative politically voters are finding out that having healthcare is actually pretty great, and they're showing up in huge numbers at town halls to tell their Congresspeople not to repeal ACA.

Only 17% of Americans support AHCA.

 

[kyzr]

How many hospitals could survive on 87% or 79% of Medicare? Many Drs don't accept Medicaid patients now. You simply can't stretch resources to cover everyone.

 

[MisterBeale]

That thing is such a stupid, horrific pig that I give the Dems the benefit of the doubt that they are not so dumb as to believe it would actually work.

So yeah, that would mean that Single Payer has been on their mind all along.

But the 2008 elections had long-term consequences. It gave the public something it didn't have before, and today's more pragmatic Republicans know that you just can't take something like that away. And that's why they're voting on Stupid, Horrific Pig 2.0 today. It's most likely too late to go back.
.

I agree the Dems knew exactly what would happen down the road once ObamaCare was instituted. It's my opinion we should stop struggling against the single payer universal coverage we will inevitably get, and just go for it. We deserve it. Then both sides of the aisle can start focusing on the real problem--why healthcare costs (not insurance) are so high.

Do you think we should go for it if you knew, if you were 100% sure that it would destroy the fabric of the nation and society as we know it forever?

I will not disagree with you that everyone "deserves" what ever they wish for, dream of, and most importantly, need. I will not disagree with you that everyone deserves the very best of care. But if you knew, that in the attempt to deliver that, all care will degrade and become less over time so that in the future, only the very rich and the elites will have care, would you still desire such a path forward?

Here is the important reality.

I learned at a very young age, the the study of economics is the study of a people's unlimited wants and needs, in a world of limited resources. Our job is to best decide how to distribute those resources.

 

[brummelben]

How many hospitals could survive on 87% or 79% of Medicare? Many Drs don't accept Medicaid patients now. You simply can't stretch resources to cover everyone.

All it takes to "save" medicare as well as S/S is just a bit more revenue.

 

[brummelben]

How many hospitals could survive on 87% or 79% of Medicare? Many Drs don't accept Medicaid patients now. You simply can't stretch resources to cover everyone.

Why did you LIE about Medicare going bankrupt.

 

[BoSoxGal]

How many hospitals could survive on 87% or 79% of Medicare? Many Drs don't accept Medicaid patients now. You simply can't stretch resources to cover everyone.

That's ridiculous small minded BS, sorry. We are THE RICHEST nation on the planet - we absolutely CAN afford to do single payer. We just need to restructure the system and remove obscene profit motives and CEO salaries in healthcare industry and insurance industry.

Pick up a book, read about how it works in many vibrant countries who have excellent medical facilities, excellent doctors, etc.

Why do you suppose so many doctors support ACA and would like to see it expanded to single payer?

 

[BoSoxGal]

Go here and read a bunch before spewing anymore low information opinions:

Physicians for a National Health Program

 

[OldLady]

Universal coverage will never happen. Medicaid & medicare are going broke. Obamacare will die a slow death with hospitals and insurers going bankrupt. This could be a disaster for healthcare. The GOP and Dems will never agree on anything, ever...

Universal coverage is getting closer by the day, because of what you are pointing out. The GOP and Dems will HAVE to agree on something because the private market has been seriously injured and people now have had life saving coverage. It just costs too much for many to afford. Medicare and Medicaid won't go broke if healthcare costs come down, and of course our taxes will have to go up, but if businesses aren't paying billions and trillions for employees' healthcare coverage, that will be a big boost to the economy and things will look different. People are getting very, very rich on the fact that no one wants to die. They will pay anything to live. So Big Pharm and doctors and hospitals can charge the moon and stars and people will pay it.