Do You Support The "Gun Show Loophole?"

[Spoonman]

We already have background checks. Those poll numbers come from the insistent lie from the left that anyone who buys a gun at a gun show does not have to go through a background check.

Those numbers are based on the fact that 100% of gun sales are not subject to background checks and more than 90% of US Voters think that they should be.

Try to spin out of that.

Criminal Background checks are one thing, registering what you buy is something else altogether. Sadly, there are some who do not seem to understand the difference.

it's the old you agree to one thing so it must be ok if we do three things.

 

[OriginalShroom]

you have to register to vote, there is no background check. there is no record kept of how you vote. the right to vote is not denied to anyone.

The United States maintains a shortsighted and punitive set of laws, some of them dating back to Reconstruction, denying the vote to people who have committed felonies. They will bar about 5.85 million people from voting in this year’s (2012) election. In the states with the most draconian policies — including Alabama, Florida, Kentucky, Mississippi and Virginia — more than 7 percent of the adult population is barred from the polls, sometimes for life. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/04/opinion/sunday/voting-rights-former-felons.html?_r=0

Now what is this background check going to include? like it does today? just a criminal record? Adam Lanza would have passed, same with the colorado shooter. The california cop did pass, so did the ft hood shooter. and those two went through some real intensive background screenings.

Criminal history. Perhaps some types of disqualifying mental health issues. I certainly don't believe it will wipe out all the problems, but when you couple it with a sales database and dealer inventories, law enforcement officials will have much better tools at their disposal.

Let me see if I understand this correctly..

You have no problem allowing a Convicted Felon vote, yet you want to take away Constituitonally protected rights from a person who committed a misdemeanor?

 

[nodoginnafight]

I do not the the governments approval to sell anything I legally own.

And 90% of Americans think you should. We will see if that results in legislation.
(and btw - you have to register the sale of your home with the registrar of deeds and the property tax assessor)

90% of americans don't realize that criminal background checks occur in 99% of all gun sales already. again, if they realized all of this smoke and mirrors only addressed a fraction and really doesn't change anything and that it is only more feel good legislation, they are going ot think differently

Actually, the more honest estimates range from 15% to 40% are sales without background checks.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The guy that everyone thinks was a famous gunfighter, even though he was never in a gun fight? That Wyatt Earp?

There was no prohibition of guns in Dodge, or Tombstone. Open Carry was prohibited, not possession.

Oh, and the gun fight between Wyatt Earp and Curly Bill Brocius at Turkey Creek is the stuff of legends. Several accounts corroborate the Josie Marcus rendition that you are no doubt questioning. Of course Brocius was referred to as the worst shot with a revolver in all history....

Is that the one that the only account we have of it comes from Earp? Can you explain why I should believe that?

By the way, Earp had a reputation as a gunfighter long before that "shootout" went down, but the only records of any gunfights involving him that are corroborated by outside sources involve one time he shot someone in Dodge City and the highly exaggerated events at the OK Corral, which were not even at the corral.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

They don't have to.
All they have to do is take the basics to a gun dealer and get a thumbs up or thumbs down.

for a cost. and what if thsi person is disabled or doesn't drive? The argument is we can't have a voter id because it inconveniences people and violates their rights. but that is just what we are doing here.

You have a Constitutional right to sell a gun?
To anyone?

A guy comes up to you screaming "I'll give you $50 for that gun in your hand. That lying wife of mine has cheated on me for the last time."

Can you legally deny him? Afterall, it is his "Constitutional" right, huh????

You have a right to vote. But that right can be denied to certain people. How do they know? You have to REGISTER to vote.

Background check every gun sale. Database every gun sale (so we can prosecute the 1% of gun sellers who account for about 95% of all the illegal gun sales), and require gun dealers to maintain inventories. In short, just put the teeth back into the laws we do have.

I have a right to sell my property, and nothing in the Constitution either gives me that right, or denies it to me.

 

[nodoginnafight]

you have to register to vote, there is no background check. there is no record kept of how you vote. the right to vote is not denied to anyone.

The United States maintains a shortsighted and punitive set of laws, some of them dating back to Reconstruction, denying the vote to people who have committed felonies. They will bar about 5.85 million people from voting in this year’s (2012) election. In the states with the most draconian policies — including Alabama, Florida, Kentucky, Mississippi and Virginia — more than 7 percent of the adult population is barred from the polls, sometimes for life. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/04/opinion/sunday/voting-rights-former-felons.html?_r=0

Now what is this background check going to include? like it does today? just a criminal record? Adam Lanza would have passed, same with the colorado shooter. The california cop did pass, so did the ft hood shooter. and those two went through some real intensive background screenings.

Criminal history. Perhaps some types of disqualifying mental health issues. I certainly don't believe it will wipe out all the problems, but when you couple it with a sales database and dealer inventories, law enforcement officials will have much better tools at their disposal.

Let me see if I understand this correctly..

You have no problem allowing a Convicted Felon vote, yet you want to take away Constituitonally protected rights from a person who committed a misdemeanor?

what made you think "I have no problem allowing a convicted felon to vote'?

Did you mistake the piece I quoted and referenced as my own opinion? It was not. It was merely offered to disprove a claim that there is no such thing as felony disenfranchisement in the U.S.

And what made you think I favor blocking gun sales on the basis of a misdemeanor?

shroom, I respect your right to your own opinion. But when you try to put words in my mouth, you discredit yourself.

 

[Spoonman]

And 90% of Americans think you should. We will see if that results in legislation.
(and btw - you have to register the sale of your home with the registrar of deeds and the property tax assessor)

90% of americans don't realize that criminal background checks occur in 99% of all gun sales already. again, if they realized all of this smoke and mirrors only addressed a fraction and really doesn't change anything and that it is only more feel good legislation, they are going ot think differently

Actually, the more honest estimates range from 15% to 40% are sales without background checks.

15 to 40%, nice broad range. those must be some real accurate numbers.

 

[OriginalShroom]

And 90% of Americans think you should. We will see if that results in legislation.
(and btw - you have to register the sale of your home with the registrar of deeds and the property tax assessor)

90% of americans don't realize that criminal background checks occur in 99% of all gun sales already. again, if they realized all of this smoke and mirrors only addressed a fraction and really doesn't change anything and that it is only more feel good legislation, they are going ot think differently

Actually, the more honest estimates range from 15% to 40% are sales without background checks.

You mean the Bullshit gun grabber estimates.

 

[Spoonman]

90% of americans don't realize that criminal background checks occur in 99% of all gun sales already. again, if they realized all of this smoke and mirrors only addressed a fraction and really doesn't change anything and that it is only more feel good legislation, they are going ot think differently

Actually, the more honest estimates range from 15% to 40% are sales without background checks.

You mean the Bullshit gun grabber estimates.

that number must include all the guns eric holder put out on the streets without background checks

 

[Uncensored2008]

I just bought a car and had to register it to get a plate. THOSE BASTARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!

And those plates are a LICENSE to operate the car on public streets. If you want the car to use on your own farm or land, no need to register it.

Just like I expect to have to REGISTER to carry a concealed weapon, but for my private, in-home use, do not.

 

[OriginalShroom]

Actually, the more honest estimates range from 15% to 40% are sales without background checks.

You mean the Bullshit gun grabber estimates.

that number must include all the guns eric holder put out on the streets without background checks

With that range, the real number can be 15.1% and they can't be accuse of lying because the real number is in that range, meanwhile they use that 40% number to scare all the urban housewives into thinking almost half the guns out there are owned by the demented criminal who wants to rape her and kill her familiy.

 

[nodoginnafight]

If you don't have to register or do a background check, how are you gonna come up with pinpoint statistics?

If you have a good point, then why not argue that? Why digress into silliness?

 

[nodoginnafight]

Universal background checks, maintaining a database of sales, and requiring gun dealers to maintain an inventory do not infringe upon anyone's right to own or to sell whatever they want.

Just don't use the "enforce existing laws" argument when you have made that virtually impossible.

 

[Spoonman]

I just bought a car and had to register it to get a plate. THOSE BASTARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!

And those plates are a LICENSE to operate the car on public streets. If you want the car to use on your own farm or land, no need to register it.

Just like I expect to have to REGISTER to carry a concealed weapon, but for my private, in-home use, do not.

good points.

 

[Spoonman]

Universal background checks, maintaining a database of sales, and requiring gun dealers to maintain an inventory do not infringe upon anyone's right to own or to sell whatever they want.

Just don't use the "enforce existing laws" argument when you have made that virtually impossible.

and once again, gun dealers are required to maintain an inventory and do a background check.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Is that the one that the only account we have of it comes from Earp? Can you explain why I should believe that?

Nope.

There were a half-dozen accounts of the Turkey Creek shoot out, which is why I brought it up.

The O.K. Corral story is admittedly questionable, and heavily influenced by Josie Marcus.

By the way, Earp had a reputation as a gunfighter long before that "shootout" went down, but the only records of any gunfights involving him that are corroborated by outside sources involve one time he shot someone in Dodge City and the highly exaggerated events at the OK Corral, which were not even at the corral.

Oddly enough, even his alleged "reputation" is questionable. Josie may have "back-filled" quite a bit on that front.

 

[nodoginnafight]

Universal background checks, maintaining a database of sales, and requiring gun dealers to maintain an inventory do not infringe upon anyone's right to own or to sell whatever they want.

Just don't use the "enforce existing laws" argument when you have made that virtually impossible.

and once again, gun dealers are required to maintain an inventory and do a background check.

You are mistaken again. The ATF cannot require gun dealers to maintain an inventory. (See Tiahrt amendment)
I have never said that gun dealers do not conduct background checks.

 

[Uncensored2008]

If you don't have to register or do a background check, how are you gonna come up with pinpoint statistics?

If you have a good point, then why not argue that? Why digress into silliness?

See; you hold the position that of the 15,000 people at the OC Fairgrounds last weekend, 6,000 of them bought guns from private individuals who paid booth rental?

Now that's just stupid bullshit, and I think you know it. The booths are expensive and only profitable to dealers that have a lot of stock to sell.

even 15% is a fantasy bullshit number that you gungrabbers pulled from your ass.

 

[nodoginnafight]

If you don't have to register or do a background check, how are you gonna come up with pinpoint statistics?

If you have a good point, then why not argue that? Why digress into silliness?

See; you hold the position that of the 15,000 people at the OC Fairgrounds last weekend, 6,000 of them bought guns from private individuals who paid booth rental?

Now that's just stupid bullshit, and I think you know it. The booths are expensive and only profitable to dealers that have a lot of stock to sell.

even 15% is a fantasy bullshit number that you gungrabbers pulled from your ass.

I made no claims about any individual event. If you have an argument with what I am actually saying, then present that argument. If you just want to put words in my mounth, and then argue with that, knock yourself out. You don't need me to be here at all.

The NRA estimate (btw) is 10%.
So I'm fine with starting there.

 

[Spoonman]

Universal background checks, maintaining a database of sales, and requiring gun dealers to maintain an inventory do not infringe upon anyone's right to own or to sell whatever they want.

Just don't use the "enforce existing laws" argument when you have made that virtually impossible.

and once again, gun dealers are required to maintain an inventory and do a background check.

You are mistaken again. The ATF cannot require gun dealers to maintain an inventory. (See Tiahrt amendment)
I have never said that gun dealers do not conduct background checks.

Actually you should read it. all that does is prevent the atf from requiring dealers to perform physical inventories. they can still go in at anytime they want and perform an audit.