Do You Win Or Lose Under The GOP Tax Plan: Find Out For Yourself Here

[edthecynic]

Why are democrats so afraid of simplifying the tax form?

 

[g5000]

Why are democrats so afraid of simplifying the tax form?

Now THAT is some funny shit right there.

Do you know how many metrics tons of whining and screaming I have received from pseudocons over simplifying the tax code since I arrived on this forum?

 

[g5000]

Bob and Bill are neighbors.

Bob and Bill earn identical incomes.

Let's say $50,000.

Therefore, Bob and Bill pay identical income tax.

Let's say they each pay $5,000. A 10 percent tax on their income.

But wait!

Bill has exhibited some behaviors which he has demanded be rewarded by the government. Bill has purchased certain products and spawned.

So Bill gets to subtract $1,000 from his income tax.

Two guys earning identical incomes are now paying radically different amounts of tax.

Bob is paying $5,000, Bill is paying $4,000.

Now the government has collected $1,000 less in revenue.

The government has to make up for this loss somehow, or else borrow $1,000 from China.

So the government increases the 10 percent income tax to 11 percent.

Bob's tax bill is now $5,500. Thanks a lot Bill! Asshole!

Bob is now paying an extra $500 so that Bill can get his deductions.

Bob has been robbed by Bill.

Bill is next door, very excited about his deductions. "I get to keep more of my own money!"

Bill's tax bill is $5,500 - $1,000 = $4,500. Bill does not realize $500 of his deductions have been cancelled out by the tax rate hike!

But at least the budget is back in balance.

Bob and Bill both complain to the government that an 11 percent tax is too high. They are fucking pissed about it.

So the government lowers the tax rate back to 10 percent.

Woo hoo!

But the government only cuts a few of Bill's deductions which had caused the 11 percent tax rate to begin with.

Bill still gets $500 in deductions instead of $1,000.

Bob's tax bill is back to 10 percent. He pays $5,000. He's happy again.

Bill's tax bill is $5,000 - $500 = $4,500.

Bob and Bill's tax bills are STILL not the same! They are unequal.

And now the government has to borrow $500 from China due to the deficit.


That is what is going on with the Republican tax "reform" bill on the corporate side. The government has not cancelled out all the deductions, exemptions, and credits which caused the corporate tax rate to be so high to begin with.

They are cutting taxes, but not cutting tax expenditures which are a form of SPENDING.

 

[sartre play]

Real scary part, it starts out bad & then gets worse over the next 6 years.

 

[busybee01]

The fact is that lower income people will pay a 12% tax rate vs the 10% they pay now. In addition, the standard deduction will lose value as it is NOT indexed for inflation. People will also be pushed into higher tax brackets as the brackets are adjusted to the chained CPI. People who live in the suburbs will also be hurt and they will not have to live in NY and California. For example, people who live in the Atlanta suburbs swill be hurt. That puts Republicans like Karen Handel in the cross-hairs.

Passing a bad bill will turn suburban voters against the GOP as they see their taxes go higher. Conversely the rich will uniformly gain. When people see this they will turn to Democrats.

 

[Aldo Raine]

Yes indeed, using the thing G5000 put up my taxes actually increase 17.6%. Cut cut cut!

 

[g5000]

Real scary part, it starts out bad & then gets worse over the next 6 years.

How so?

 

[busybee01]

Bob and Bill are neighbors.

Bob and Bill earn identical incomes.

Let's say $50,000.

Therefore, Bob and Bill pay identical income tax.

Let's say they each pay $5,000. A 10 percent tax on their income.

But wait!

Bill has exhibited some behaviors which he has demanded be rewarded by the government. Bill has purchased certain products and spawned.

So Bill gets to subtract $1,000 from his income tax.

Two guys earning identical incomes are now paying radically different amounts of tax.

Bob is paying $5,000, Bill is paying $4,000.

Now the government has collected $1,000 less in revenue.

The government has to make up for this loss somehow, or else borrow $1,000 from China.

So the government increases the 10 percent income tax to 11 percent.

Bob's tax bill is now $5,500. Thanks a lot Bill! Asshole!

Bob is now paying an extra $500 so that Bill can get his deductions.

Bob has been robbed by Bill.

Bill is next door, very excited about his deductions. "I get to keep more of my own money!"

Bill's tax bill is $5,500 - $1,000 = $4,500. Bill does not realize $500 of his deductions have been cancelled out by the tax rate hike!

But at least the budget is back in balance.

Bob and Bill both complain to the government that an 11 percent tax is too high. They are fucking pissed about it.

So the government lowers the tax rate back to 10 percent.

Woo hoo!

But the government only cuts a few of Bill's deductions which had caused the 11 percent tax rate to begin with.

Bill still gets $500 in deductions instead of $1,000.

Bob's tax bill is back to 10 percent. He pays $5,000. He's happy again.

Bill's tax bill is $5,000 - $500 = $4,500.

Bob and Bill's tax bills are STILL not the same! They are unequal.

And now the government has to borrow $500 from China due to the deficit.


That is what is going on with the Republican tax "reform" bill on the corporate side. The government has not cancelled out all the deductions, exemptions, and credits which caused the corporate tax rate to be so high to begin with.

They are cutting taxes, but not cutting tax expenditures which are a form of SPENDING.

The Republicans are cutting back personal tax breaks and using it to reduce business taxes. Apparently the Senate bill allows corporations to deduct SALT while individuals are not allowed to.

 

[busybee01]

Real scary part, it starts out bad & then gets worse over the next 6 years.

How so?

For one thing the standard deduction is not indexed to inflation so it will lose value each year. The brackets will be indexed to chained inflation which means people will be pushed into higher brackets. Also in 5 or 6 years it sunsets while the business cuts are permanent. I also suspect as time goes on, we are going to see more and more that we did not know such as corporations being allowed to deduct SALT while individuals are not.

 

[edthecynic]

Why are democrats so afraid of simplifying the tax form?

 

[bendog]

btw, I'm pretty sure I'll save a few bucks on this, because my state and local taxes are low, and compared to a lot of people my mortgage is small, though it hardly seems that way to me, and I about had the house paid off ten years ago .... but it's not amusing that my self-employed wife can not claim the passthrough treatment because she's a service professional. If she had a bogus "candle shop" she'd be better off. But this is about giving handouts to the 1%.

 

[g5000]

Real scary part, it starts out bad & then gets worse over the next 6 years.

How so?

For one thing the standard deduction is not indexed to inflation so it will lose value each year. The brackets will be indexed to chained inflation which means people will be pushed into higher brackets. Also in 5 or 6 years it sunsets while the business cuts are permanent. I also suspect as time goes on, we are going to see more and more that we did not know such as corporations being allowed to deduct SALT while individuals are not.

The same is true of any deduction or credit under the current scheme as far as inflation goes. So that's a wash.

As for the rest, it is as plain as the nose on your face that the corporate tax "reform" is a major ass rape of the individual taxpayer. However, our owned politicians know that the rubes only bleev what they are told to bleev and will not look into it themselves.

The crooks absolutely depend on the willful ignorance of the Tard Herd.

In fact, they count on the Tard Herd to defend them!

 

[DJT for Life]

The issue is about state taxes not federal taxes,

The good folks of Illinois, Cali, New York, should pack up and leave
and they will get a big tax decrease.

In 1950 New York had 43 members of the House. Florida had 8. Last
election it was 27-27. Folks in upstate NY have been in a permanent
migration south for going on 70 years. In 2020 Florida will top New York
in the House and obviously in total population.

You don't like losing that credit for state taxes, then either elect people that will
lower your state taxes or move to Florida or Texas. Ain't no state tax
down here, and we're doing just fine.

Anybody that still resides in upstate New York is a total fool. Your infrastructure is falling down as I type. Hell, you are footing the bill
to keep New York City afloat.

C'mon down...the sun is shining bright.

 

[g5000]

The issue is about state taxes not federal taxes,

The good folks of Illinois, Cali, New York, should pack up and leave
and they will get a big tax decrease.

In 1950 New York had 43 members of the House. Florida had 8. Last
election it was 27-27. Folks in upstate NY have been in a permanent
migration south for going on 70 years. In 2020 Florida will top New York
in the House and obviously in total population.

You don't like losing that credit for state taxes, then either elect people that will
lower your state taxes or move to Florida or Texas. Ain't no state tax
down here, and we're doing just fine.

Anybody that still resides in upstate New York is a total fool. Your infrastructure is falling down as I type. Hell, you are footing the bill
to keep New York City afloat.

C'mon down...the sun is shining bright.

Get out your 2016 tax return. Run your 2016 income through the new GOP plan.

I bet you pay more. Unless you're one of the 47 percent who pay no federal income taxes.

 

[G.T.]

Bob and Bill are neighbors.

Bob and Bill earn identical incomes.

Let's say $50,000.

Therefore, Bob and Bill pay identical income tax.

Let's say they each pay $5,000. A 10 percent tax on their income.

But wait!

Bill has exhibited some behaviors which he has demanded be rewarded by the government. Bill has purchased certain products and spawned.

So Bill gets to subtract $1,000 from his income tax.

Two guys earning identical incomes are now paying radically different amounts of tax.

Bob is paying $5,000, Bill is paying $4,000.

Now the government has collected $1,000 less in revenue.

The government has to make up for this loss somehow, or else borrow $1,000 from China.

So the government increases the 10 percent income tax to 11 percent.

Bob's tax bill is now $5,500. Thanks a lot Bill! Asshole!

Bob is now paying an extra $500 so that Bill can get his deductions.

Bob has been robbed by Bill.

Bill is next door, very excited about his deductions. "I get to keep more of my own money!"

Bill's tax bill is $5,500 - $1,000 = $4,500. Bill does not realize $500 of his deductions have been cancelled out by the tax rate hike!

But at least the budget is back in balance.

Bob and Bill both complain to the government that an 11 percent tax is too high. They are fucking pissed about it.

So the government lowers the tax rate back to 10 percent.

Woo hoo!

But the government only cuts a few of Bill's deductions which had caused the 11 percent tax rate to begin with.

Bill still gets $500 in deductions instead of $1,000.

Bob's tax bill is back to 10 percent. He pays $5,000. He's happy again.

Bill's tax bill is $5,000 - $500 = $4,500.

Bob and Bill's tax bills are STILL not the same! They are unequal.

And now the government has to borrow $500 from China due to the deficit.


That is what is going on with the Republican tax "reform" bill on the corporate side. The government has not cancelled out all the deductions, exemptions, and credits which caused the corporate tax rate to be so high to begin with.

They are cutting taxes, but not cutting tax expenditures which are a form of SPENDING.

ok but borrow from china is a bit of hyperbole, and always has been

our debt holders are mainly us citizens, not "china" as is popularly screeched

 

[g5000]

Bob and Bill are neighbors.

Bob and Bill earn identical incomes.

Let's say $50,000.

Therefore, Bob and Bill pay identical income tax.

Let's say they each pay $5,000. A 10 percent tax on their income.

But wait!

Bill has exhibited some behaviors which he has demanded be rewarded by the government. Bill has purchased certain products and spawned.

So Bill gets to subtract $1,000 from his income tax.

Two guys earning identical incomes are now paying radically different amounts of tax.

Bob is paying $5,000, Bill is paying $4,000.

Now the government has collected $1,000 less in revenue.

The government has to make up for this loss somehow, or else borrow $1,000 from China.

So the government increases the 10 percent income tax to 11 percent.

Bob's tax bill is now $5,500. Thanks a lot Bill! Asshole!

Bob is now paying an extra $500 so that Bill can get his deductions.

Bob has been robbed by Bill.

Bill is next door, very excited about his deductions. "I get to keep more of my own money!"

Bill's tax bill is $5,500 - $1,000 = $4,500. Bill does not realize $500 of his deductions have been cancelled out by the tax rate hike!

But at least the budget is back in balance.

Bob and Bill both complain to the government that an 11 percent tax is too high. They are fucking pissed about it.

So the government lowers the tax rate back to 10 percent.

Woo hoo!

But the government only cuts a few of Bill's deductions which had caused the 11 percent tax rate to begin with.

Bill still gets $500 in deductions instead of $1,000.

Bob's tax bill is back to 10 percent. He pays $5,000. He's happy again.

Bill's tax bill is $5,000 - $500 = $4,500.

Bob and Bill's tax bills are STILL not the same! They are unequal.

And now the government has to borrow $500 from China due to the deficit.


That is what is going on with the Republican tax "reform" bill on the corporate side. The government has not cancelled out all the deductions, exemptions, and credits which caused the corporate tax rate to be so high to begin with.

They are cutting taxes, but not cutting tax expenditures which are a form of SPENDING.

ok but borrow from china is a bit of hyperbole, and always has been

our debt holders are mainly us citizens, not "china" as is popularly screeched

The percent of our debt held by foreigners has been climbing steadily. They own at least half, and China is the largest foreign lender.

 

[jillian]

Here is the postcard tax return in the GOP tax reform plan.

Fill it out for 2016, and then compare what you would owe under the new plan to what you paid under the current system for 2016.

Tell us if you paid less, more, or the same.

Under the new GOP plan, the standard deduction is $12,000 for individuals, $18,000 for individuals with a child, and $24,000 for married couples.

The child tax credit is $1,600.

I already know I'd be screwed on the deduction for state and local tax

 

[NightFox]

Well, I just did mine, and I would pay more under the new plan than I did under the current plan.

29 percent more! That's a HUGE increase!

Dammit!

Just out of curiosity, how do you end up paying 29% more?

 

[jillian]

Bob and Bill are neighbors.

Bob and Bill earn identical incomes.

Let's say $50,000.

Therefore, Bob and Bill pay identical income tax.

Let's say they each pay $5,000. A 10 percent tax on their income.

But wait!

Bill has exhibited some behaviors which he has demanded be rewarded by the government. Bill has purchased certain products and spawned.

So Bill gets to subtract $1,000 from his income tax.

Two guys earning identical incomes are now paying radically different amounts of tax.

Bob is paying $5,000, Bill is paying $4,000.

Now the government has collected $1,000 less in revenue.

The government has to make up for this loss somehow, or else borrow $1,000 from China.

So the government increases the 10 percent income tax to 11 percent.

Bob's tax bill is now $5,500. Thanks a lot Bill! Asshole!

Bob is now paying an extra $500 so that Bill can get his deductions.

Bob has been robbed by Bill.

Bill is next door, very excited about his deductions. "I get to keep more of my own money!"

Bill's tax bill is $5,500 - $1,000 = $4,500. Bill does not realize $500 of his deductions have been cancelled out by the tax rate hike!

But at least the budget is back in balance.

Bob and Bill both complain to the government that an 11 percent tax is too high. They are fucking pissed about it.

So the government lowers the tax rate back to 10 percent.

Woo hoo!

But the government only cuts a few of Bill's deductions which had caused the 11 percent tax rate to begin with.

Bill still gets $500 in deductions instead of $1,000.

Bob's tax bill is back to 10 percent. He pays $5,000. He's happy again.

Bill's tax bill is $5,000 - $500 = $4,500.

Bob and Bill's tax bills are STILL not the same! They are unequal.

And now the government has to borrow $500 from China due to the deficit.


That is what is going on with the Republican tax "reform" bill on the corporate side. The government has not cancelled out all the deductions, exemptions, and credits which caused the corporate tax rate to be so high to begin with.

They are cutting taxes, but not cutting tax expenditures which are a form of SPENDING.

ok but borrow from china is a bit of hyperbole, and always has been

our debt holders are mainly us citizens, not "china" as is popularly screeched

As of September 2014 the largest single holder of U.S. government debt was China, with 21% of all foreign-held U.S. Treasury securities (10% of total U.S. public debt).[47] China's holdings of government debt, as a percentage of all foreign-held government debt are up significantly since 2000 (when China held just 6 percent of all foreign-held U.S. Treasury securities).[48]

National debt of the United States - Wikipedia

 

[g5000]

Well, I just did mine, and I would pay more under the new plan than I did under the current plan.

29 percent more! That's a HUGE increase!

Dammit!

Just out of curiosity, how do you end up paying 29% more?

I took my income earned in 2016 and plugged it into the GOP postcard tax return and the amount I would owe under the House plan is 29 percent higher than what I actually paid on my 2016 income tax return. I compared what the postcard return said I would to line 63 of my 1040 for 2016.

Try it yourself. Get out your 2016 return and try out the postcard tax return. See what happens. Compare it to what you paid for last year.