Document confirms World Zionist Organization allocates land to settlers in Jordan val

[Hoffstra]

..Thanks again. This generous announcement of concern will be passed along to the approximately 3.5 million Jews and their descendants that fled the Arab Muslim pogroms.

please stop lying and exaggerating about numbers.

only around 850,000 Jews fled the Muslim/Arab lands after 1948.

 

[RoccoR]

Intense, et al,

In cases such as these, in conflicts that have lasted this long, the first casualty is righteousness.

Hoffstra, et al,

Did you actually read the story? This is not about "racism."

Israel forbids Arabs from farming their own land but allows settlers to farm these lands.

this is why Arabs hate Israelis.

this is why many in the world, hate Israel and their supporters.

Document confirms World Zionist Organization allocates land to settlers in Jordan valley - Diplomacy and Defense Israel News Broadcast | Haaretz

(COMMENT)

The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP), were not forbidden to farm based on "race."

The documents that have come into the possession of Haaretz indicate that following the June 1967 Six-Day War and after the border fence was completed, Palestinians continued to farm their lands located close to the border. But following a number of incidents in which Palestinian farmers in this area helped infiltrators to cross the border into Israeli-controlled territory, the entire area was declared a military zone. Several Palestinians who owned plots in the area submitted applications requesting permission to farm their lands; however, their requests were denied.

SOURCE: Document confirms World Zionist Organization allocates land to settlers in Jordan valley

The HoAP lost there farming rights near the border because they were found untrustworthy, and assisting infiltrators. Any other country would have done the same thing.

This was done based on military security interests; not racism.

Most Respectfully,
R

It is a Militarized Zone, granted. I would not want to be there when the shit hits the fan. Seems like an Instant Karma thing from where I sit. The land was taken by the Government without consent, payment, or compensation, or due process. It is being currently used by private individuals without the permission of the legal owners. I would not look at is a borrowed land. Show me where Righteousness has a place in this equation. I don't see it. Show the due process.

(COMMENT)

There is no "due process" in the foreign (Middle Eastern) concept. There are only consequences.

• INFILTRATOR

Meaning:

Someone who takes up a position surreptitiously for the purpose of espionage
Hypernyms ("infiltrator" is a kind of...):
spy; undercover agent [(military) a secret agent hired by a state to obtain information about its enemies or by a business to obtain industrial secrets from competitors]​

(g) If two or more persons conspire to violate any of the foregoing provisions of this section, and one or more of such persons do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy, each of the parties to such conspiracy shall be subject to the punishment provided for the offense which is the object of such conspiracy.
(h)

(1) Any person convicted of a violation of this section shall forfeit to the United States, irrespective of any provision of State law, any property constituting, or derived from, any proceeds the person obtained, directly or indirectly, from any foreign government, or any faction or party or military or naval force within a foreign country, whether recognized or unrecognized by the United States, as the result of such violation. For the purposes of this subsection, the term “State” includes a State of the United States, the District of Columbia, and any commonwealth, territory, or possession of the United States.

(2) The court, in imposing sentence on a defendant for a conviction of a violation of this section, shall order that the defendant forfeit to the United States all property described in paragraph (1) of this subsection.​

Some countries just shoot you, while others just throw you in jail and forget about you. However, some countries, like the US, have specific penalties.

I don't know the specifics of the case cited. But the penalty does not seem too unreasonable. Especially given the scope and nature of some infiltrators, in a region known for terrorism.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Hoffstra]

It is a Militarized Zone, granted. I would not want to be there when the shit hits the fan. Seems like an Instant Karma thing from where I sit. The land was taken by the Government without consent, payment, or compensation, or due process. It is being currently used by private individuals without the permission of the legal owners. I would not look at is a borrowed land. Show me where Righteousness has a place in this equation. I don't see it. Show the due process.

if its a closed military zone, why are civilians being allowed to farm it?

I'll tell you exactly why.

Because according to international law, an occupying power has the legal right to confiscate private property in occupied territory for security & military purposes.

this is how much of the Israeli settlements were confiscated from Arab private-property owners.

Israel then goes ahead and lets settlers live in these closed military zones, and then declares them civilian housing once the work is done.

but when asked to justify taking the land and not paying rent to the actual Arab owners, they revert to the legal basis of "its a closed military zone for security purposes". This exact argument has been represented by Rocco, who calls this a "security" situation...even though he knows full well that farmers have no relation to security.

this is the disgusting essense of Israeli land-theft in the West Bank.

a good 30% of the settlements are built on land that was confiscated in this very fashion.

THIS is why people hate Israel.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Now that this matter has been brought to light, those farmers who have been displaced, who cannot farm there and who had owned the land should be compensated for the land. Politics or national cause has no place in the equities regarding this issue.

If a doctrine similar to "Eminent Domain" has been invoked then the land should not go to people that the government has chosen, to no one or revert back to those who owned it prior to the "taking".

As it stands this matter has yet to be seen through conclusion and I hope Israel does the right thing.

Should the compensation to the Palestinian farmers be decreased, at least partly, because they helped infiltrators cross the border, which was the cause of their lands being confiscated in the first place?

 

[Hoffstra]

...This was done based on military security interests; not racism....

...There is no "due process" in the foreign (Middle Eastern) concept. There are only consequences....

that's funny, cause I could have sworn that Israel is a western-style democracy, that has shared & common values with the USA.

you know, like justice, freedom, liberty, equality, and Due Process!!!!!!

 

[Hoffstra]

Should the compensation to the Palestinian farmers be decreased, at least partly, because they helped infiltrators cross the border, which was the cause of their lands being confiscated in the first place?

when were ALL of these Arab farmers convicted of aiding illegal aliens?

did they get to have a lawyer represent their rights?

did they have a right to appeal the military order?

of couse not.

As Rocco said, there is no Due Process here.

 

[RoccoR]

Connery, et al,

Yes, "Eminent Domain" is used when the property itself has an inherent security vulnerability to the state.

Now that this matter has been brought to light, those farmers who have been displaced, who cannot farm there and who had owned the land should be compensated for the land. Politics or national cause has no place in the equities regarding this issue.

If a doctrine similar to "Eminent Domain" has been invoked then the land should not go to people that the government has chosen, to no one or revert back to those who owned it prior to the "taking".

As it stands this matter has yet to be seen through conclusion and I hope Israel does the right thing.

(LAYMAN's COMMENT)

If, however, the vulnerability is enhanced or aided by the property owner, then (in the case of aiding and abetting), a different set of consequences come into play.

In most cases (Western world), "Eminent Domain" for state security reasons, have a term (temporary in nature and conditional --- subject to periodic review) --- and are not permanent rulings; especially in occupied territory. It is like a classified document, they are never classified forever.

However, if there is a criminal component, and the seizure is pursuant to a criminal finding and prosecution, then the court or tribunal has the final word. Again, except in cases of occupied territory.

I was in Europe during the handover of some former NAZI Party and former GESTAPO property was relinquished back to the Host Nation. It had been in the possession of the US since it was confiscated in WWII (over 40 years). Rarely is the holding forever. As I recall, the USG had to pay some monetary amount to the German Government for the repair and restoration of some of the property.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Intense]

Hoffstra, et al,

Did you actually read the story? This is not about "racism."


(COMMENT)

The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP), were not forbidden to farm based on "race."



The HoAP lost there farming rights near the border because they were found untrustworthy, and assisting infiltrators. Any other country would have done the same thing.

This was done based on military security interests; not racism.

Most Respectfully,
R

It is a Militarized Zone, granted. I would not want to be there when the shit hits the fan. Seems like an Instant Karma thing from where I sit. The land was taken by the Government without consent, payment, or compensation, or due process. It is being currently used by private individuals without the permission of the legal owners. I would not look at is a borrowed land. Show me where Righteousness has a place in this equation. I don't see it. Show the due process.

The land was not "taken", nor was it part of any Arab state. It was used to attack Israel by four Arab nations (with the assistance of their Palestinian brethren), in order to destroy Israel. Israel then occupied the area after the Arabs suffered a humiliating defeat. What would the Arabs have had Israel suffered a defeat? Surely there wouldn't be talk of anything other than slaughtering the remaining Jews that are alive.

IF there is any returning of land to the defeated aggressors, it should be based on a negotiated and acceptable settlement to both sides, under conditions where a peaceful resolution can be reached. Those conditions as of the last 40 years just haven't been provided by the Palestinians.

It's still private land. The dust settled long ago, there. Either return it, or compensate for fairly assessed current value , plus usury. If it was your land at stake here, I would support you in this, too. There are issues where you need to look to God, for direction. Do the right thing.

 

[RoccoR]

Hoffstra, et al,

It is rare, in travelling the world, that I saw any country that had laws like the US has.

...This was done based on military security interests; not racism....

...There is no "due process" in the foreign (Middle Eastern) concept. There are only consequences....

that's funny, cause I could have sworn that Israel is a western-style democracy, that has shared & common values with the USA.

you know, like justice, freedom, liberty, equality, and Due Process!!!!!!

(COMMENT)

Remember, the West Bank is not Israel. And "due process" means different thing to the people of different countries. Everything changes with time.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Intense]

It is a Militarized Zone, granted. I would not want to be there when the shit hits the fan. Seems like an Instant Karma thing from where I sit. The land was taken by the Government without consent, payment, or compensation, or due process. It is being currently used by private individuals without the permission of the legal owners. I would not look at is a borrowed land. Show me where Righteousness has a place in this equation. I don't see it. Show the due process.

if its a closed military zone, why are civilians being allowed to farm it?

I'll tell you exactly why.

Because according to international law, an occupying power has the legal right to confiscate private property in occupied territory for security & military purposes.

this is how much of the Israeli settlements were confiscated from Arab private-property owners.

Israel then goes ahead and lets settlers live in these closed military zones, and then declares them civilian housing once the work is done.

but when asked to justify taking the land and not paying rent to the actual Arab owners, they revert to the legal basis of "its a closed military zone for security purposes". This exact argument has been represented by Rocco, who calls this a "security" situation...even though he knows full well that farmers have no relation to security.

this is the disgusting essense of Israeli land-theft in the West Bank.

a good 30% of the settlements are built on land that was confiscated in this very fashion.

THIS is why people hate Israel.

I don't hate Israel, I support it. I also support peace on earth to people of good will, individually and collectively. All of us. We are all related here, if you trace back far enough. People in that region have been intermarrying from the dawn of creation. Cut from the same cloth, two sides of the same coin. Two sides of the same broken record.

Where does one establish justice, while at the same time denying it?
Rewarding Injustice with more injustice, is easy, it's instinctive, reflexive. We have had that character flaw for far too long. There is another way. Try planting a different seed. What do you have to lose when it comes to good will. What is the fruit of hate? It's a cancer in itself. In Judaism, in Islam, what comes ahead of adherence to God? What principles must one first abandon to do harm to another?

 

[Roudy]

..Thanks again. This generous announcement of concern will be passed along to the approximately 3.5 million Jews and their descendants that fled the Arab Muslim pogroms.

please stop lying and exaggerating about numbers.

only around 850,000 Jews fled the Muslim/Arab lands after 1948.

Yes. So there were more Jews that fled their homes than did the 300,000 Palestinians that fled what is now Israel. Now, you add a portion of that and their descendants in Israel, which are a majority now in Israel, plus the others and their descendants in diaspora, and you probably get to a number closer to 4.5 million. But who's counting. Ethnic cleansing, anyone?

 

[Hoffstra]

Yes. So there were more Jews that fled their homes than did the 300,000 Palestinians that fled what is now Israel. Now, you add a portion of that and their descendants in Israel, which are a majority now in Israel, plus the others and their descendants in diaspora, and you probably get to a number closer to 4.5 million. But who's counting. Ethnic cleansing, anyone?

more than 800,000 Arabs fled Israel in 1948.

stop with the Nakba-Denial.

 

[toastman]

Yes. So there were more Jews that fled their homes than did the 300,000 Palestinians that fled what is now Israel. Now, you add a portion of that and their descendants in Israel, which are a majority now in Israel, plus the others and their descendants in diaspora, and you probably get to a number closer to 4.5 million. But who's counting. Ethnic cleansing, anyone?

more than 800,000 Arabs fled Israel in 1948.

stop with the Nakba-Denial.

1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This source says 711 000 to 750 000

Where your source?

 

[pbel]

Perhaps people (not necessarily you) should take an honest and unbiased look at this particular case - without trying to pile on all the typical crap to distract from this specific situation - and ask themselves, would this be considered land theft in any other situation?

Palistanian settlers should stop thinking they have an exclusive right to what is Judea and Samaria and not some goddamn -stan. Basically, the international community should do itself a favor and dispense with being an example to the einsteinian definition of insanity with its peace-state-palistan drivel and undertake an international program of humanitarian resettlement of palistanians and integration of their brethren residing in other states. That'll be cool, of course.

Is it a wonder that Israel is less liked in World Polls than N. Korea and Iran...steal their land and kick them out...Just what the Nazis did.

Its hard to believe that some Jews think this way.

 

[Hoffstra]

Is it a wonder that Israel is less liked in World Polls than N. Korea and Iran...steal their land and kick them out...Just what the Nazis did.

Its hard to believe that some Jews think this way.

Uber-Zionists defend ethnic cleansing, stealing land, stripping Palestinians of their Permanent Residency status, giving settlers retro-active building permits, and passing laws that are meant to hurt Arabs but help Jews.


...and then they whine, bitch, moan, and cry when people hate them.

For the most part, hatred and anger at Israel is the fault of ISRAEL.

 

[pbel]

It is a Militarized Zone, granted. I would not want to be there when the shit hits the fan. Seems like an Instant Karma thing from where I sit. The land was taken by the Government without consent, payment, or compensation, or due process. It is being currently used by private individuals without the permission of the legal owners. I would not look at is a borrowed land. Show me where Righteousness has a place in this equation. I don't see it. Show the due process.

if its a closed military zone, why are civilians being allowed to farm it?

I'll tell you exactly why.

Because according to international law, an occupying power has the legal right to confiscate private property in occupied territory for security & military purposes.

this is how much of the Israeli settlements were confiscated from Arab private-property owners.

Israel then goes ahead and lets settlers live in these closed military zones, and then declares them civilian housing once the work is done.

but when asked to justify taking the land and not paying rent to the actual Arab owners, they revert to the legal basis of "its a closed military zone for security purposes". This exact argument has been represented by Rocco, who calls this a "security" situation...even though he knows full well that farmers have no relation to security.

this is the disgusting essense of Israeli land-theft in the West Bank.

a good 30% of the settlements are built on land that was confiscated in this very fashion.

THIS is why people hate Israel.

According to Zionism Double-Talk and dealing is allowable, it seems...

 

[Hoffstra]

Its stories like this which explain why SOOO many people hate Israel and Israelis.

People that have no history whatsoever of hating Jews...hate Israelis.

This is why.

 

[pbel]

It is a Militarized Zone, granted. I would not want to be there when the shit hits the fan. Seems like an Instant Karma thing from where I sit. The land was taken by the Government without consent, payment, or compensation, or due process. It is being currently used by private individuals without the permission of the legal owners. I would not look at is a borrowed land. Show me where Righteousness has a place in this equation. I don't see it. Show the due process.

if its a closed military zone, why are civilians being allowed to farm it?

I'll tell you exactly why.

Because according to international law, an occupying power has the legal right to confiscate private property in occupied territory for security & military purposes.

this is how much of the Israeli settlements were confiscated from Arab private-property owners.

Israel then goes ahead and lets settlers live in these closed military zones, and then declares them civilian housing once the work is done.

but when asked to justify taking the land and not paying rent to the actual Arab owners, they revert to the legal basis of "its a closed military zone for security purposes". This exact argument has been represented by Rocco, who calls this a "security" situation...even though he knows full well that farmers have no relation to security.

this is the disgusting essense of Israeli land-theft in the West Bank.

a good 30% of the settlements are built on land that was confiscated in this very fashion.

THIS is why people hate Israel.

I don't hate Israel, I support it. I also support peace on earth to people of good will, individually and collectively. All of us. We are all related here, if you trace back far enough. People in that region have been intermarrying from the dawn of creation. Cut from the same cloth, two sides of the same coin. Two sides of the same broken record.

Where does one establish justice, while at the same time denying it?
Rewarding Injustice with more injustice, is easy, it's instinctive, reflexive. We have had that character flaw for far too long. There is another way. Try planting a different seed. What do you have to lose when it comes to good will. What is the fruit of hate? It's a cancer in itself. In Judaism, in Islam, what comes ahead of adherence to God? What principles must one first abandon to do harm to another?

Have you ever noticed that if anyone from any race screams in terror, or laughs, cries un- controllably baby or adult, or language, you can't tell the difference? I haven't...

 

[Roudy]

Its stories like this which explain why SOOO many people hate Israel and Israelis.

People that have no history whatsoever of hating Jews...hate Israelis.

This is why.

People have o history of hating Jews? Ha ha ha ha.

Review the history of the last 2000 years, you will find religious based hatred as the number killer of human beings.

 

[Roudy]

Perhaps people (not necessarily you) should take an honest and unbiased look at this particular case - without trying to pile on all the typical crap to distract from this specific situation - and ask themselves, would this be considered land theft in any other situation?

Palistanian settlers should stop thinking they have an exclusive right to what is Judea and Samaria and not some goddamn -stan. Basically, the international community should do itself a favor and dispense with being an example to the einsteinian definition of insanity with its peace-state-palistan drivel and undertake an international program of humanitarian resettlement of palistanians and integration of their brethren residing in other states. That'll be cool, of course.

Is it a wonder that Israel is less liked in World Polls than N. Korea and Iran...steal their land and kick them out...Just what the Nazis did.

Its hard to believe that some Jews think this way.

Which polls is "Israel less liked than N. Korea or Iran"? Pakistan? LOL