Does it ever bother Chrisitans that so many well known atheist are Jews?

[irosie91]

Hobelim , I agree Jesus was not a Pharisee.

Thank you, and I agree with you that Jesus was not a pharisee as surely as Mohammed was not a prophet of God..

how do you define PHARISEE hobelim?

 

[High_Gravity]

Are you fucking stupid? you can't be an Athiest and a Jew you fucking retard!

I guess that depends on who you ask: But that is a jewish thing isn't it, they make it up as they go.

Jewish secularism - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Throughout modern history, Jewish thinkers have challenged traditional Judaism. As early as the nineteenth century, members of the Society for the Culture and Science of the Jews (Verein fur Kultur und Wissenschaft der Juden) viewed Judaism as a culture, not a religion. These secularists, building on foundations of the Enlightenment, Haskalah, were keen to integrate humanistic culture and education with a Jewish culture not linked to rabbinical dictates, or the existence of a personal God.


State of Israel[edit]
The creation of the State of Israel in 1948 is often seen as secular Judaism’s greatest achievement, with Hebrew as a spoken language rather than a language of prayer, and the majority of the population living secular Jewish lives. Some 2000 secular Israeli schools exist, where children study Jewish history and literature and celebrate the holidays without prayer or religion.

SECULAR AND ATHIEST ARE NOT THE SAME YOU ASS HAT!

 

[irosie91]

Are you fucking stupid? you can't be an Athiest and a Jew you fucking retard!

I guess that depends on who you ask: But that is a jewish thing isn't it, they make it up as they go.

Jewish secularism - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Throughout modern history, Jewish thinkers have challenged traditional Judaism. As early as the nineteenth century, members of the Society for the Culture and Science of the Jews (Verein fur Kultur und Wissenschaft der Juden) viewed Judaism as a culture, not a religion. These secularists, building on foundations of the Enlightenment, Haskalah, were keen to integrate humanistic culture and education with a Jewish culture not linked to rabbinical dictates, or the existence of a personal God.


State of Israel[edit]
The creation of the State of Israel in 1948 is often seen as secular Judaism’s greatest achievement, with Hebrew as a spoken language rather than a language of prayer, and the majority of the population living secular Jewish lives. Some 2000 secular Israeli schools exist, where children study Jewish history and literature and celebrate the holidays without prayer or religion.

SECULAR AND ATHIEST ARE NOT THE SAME YOU ASS HAT!

Penelope should give up using the MAIL SYSTEM----
it is secular------so is the telephone company

 

[haissem123]

Are you fucking stupid? you can't be an Athiest and a Jew you fucking retard!

I guess that depends on who you ask: But that is a jewish thing isn't it, they make it up as they go.

Jewish secularism - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Throughout modern history, Jewish thinkers have challenged traditional Judaism. As early as the nineteenth century, members of the Society for the Culture and Science of the Jews (Verein fur Kultur und Wissenschaft der Juden) viewed Judaism as a culture, not a religion. These secularists, building on foundations of the Enlightenment, Haskalah, were keen to integrate humanistic culture and education with a Jewish culture not linked to rabbinical dictates, or the existence of a personal God.


State of Israel[edit]
The creation of the State of Israel in 1948 is often seen as secular Judaism’s greatest achievement, with Hebrew as a spoken language rather than a language of prayer, and the majority of the population living secular Jewish lives. Some 2000 secular Israeli schools exist, where children study Jewish history and literature and celebrate the holidays without prayer or religion.

I think the jews have been wandering for ions trying to find there way back to Zion. i think when they abandonded the laws of their God by killing for land money power vanity etc... just like we have followed that line of conquest.. they have always fell back on hard times where lo and behold they turn again to some common sense rules of a lasting peace and joy for all people not a chosen few. We are slowly all turning back to this common sense rules but it seems the winners of this silly man made game of conquest, and yes it's a game, a losers' game in the end, are always the last to see the light.

 

[irosie91]

Are you fucking stupid? you can't be an Athiest and a Jew you fucking retard!

I guess that depends on who you ask: But that is a jewish thing isn't it, they make it up as they go.

Jewish secularism - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Throughout modern history, Jewish thinkers have challenged traditional Judaism. As early as the nineteenth century, members of the Society for the Culture and Science of the Jews (Verein fur Kultur und Wissenschaft der Juden) viewed Judaism as a culture, not a religion. These secularists, building on foundations of the Enlightenment, Haskalah, were keen to integrate humanistic culture and education with a Jewish culture not linked to rabbinical dictates, or the existence of a personal God.


State of Israel[edit]
The creation of the State of Israel in 1948 is often seen as secular Judaism’s greatest achievement, with Hebrew as a spoken language rather than a language of prayer, and the majority of the population living secular Jewish lives. Some 2000 secular Israeli schools exist, where children study Jewish history and literature and celebrate the holidays without prayer or religion.

I think the jews have been wandering for ions trying to find there way back to Zion. i think when they abandonded the laws of their God by killing for land money power vanity etc... just like we have followed that line of conquest.. they have always fell back on hard times where lo and behold they turn again to some common sense rules of a lasting peace and joy for all people not a chosen few. We are slowly all turning back to this common sense rules but it seems the winners of this silly man made game of conquest, and yes it's a game, a losers' game in the end, are always the last to see the light.

an ION is charged atom-----either negative (more electrons than protons) or positive (more protons than
eletrons) -----your opening statement is a good clue as
to the quality of the writings that follow

 

[Coyote]

Are you fucking stupid? you can't be an Athiest and a Jew you fucking retard!

Actually, I think you can - it's also an ethnic identity determined by heredity. It can be rather confusing...

 

[irosie91]

Are you fucking stupid? you can't be an Athiest and a Jew you fucking retard!

Actually, I think you can - it's also an ethnic identity determined by heredity. It can be rather confusing...

It doesn't confuse me. ----Judaism as a social system and legal system never considered a "belief" to be a crime----
in that sense it differs from both the Islamic and Christian systems if -----used as a social system and legal system.
That which is considered a CRIME---is a very strong social
deterrent. People do things and express ideas which they CAN in their societies. If Saudi Arabia did away with its
MORALITY cops-------the behaviors of the people would change radically ------as would their public declarations.

Even in ancient times------a belief -----while it might be considered "bizarre" ----did not constitute a CRIME---
unless the believer in what was considered a bit nutty
tried to GET A FOLLOWING----ie set up a cult

 

[hobelim]

I do not agree----I read the book-----I found nothing that could credibly be attributed to Jesus that was not entirely
in the manner of the PHARISEES ---nor did I find anything that could reasonably be considered credible that suggested that PHARISEES-----rejected Jesus. If you ask me to believe that SUDDENLY-----jews---at a crucifixtion en masse----chanted "Crucify him Crucify him"----so the poor innocent PONTIUS PILATE crucified
jesus out of FEAR OF THE JOOOS----I will give up
the conversation having determined that you are ------probably --- a bit sick. You lived in Crown Heights amongst the LUBAVITCH---? how nice-----what street?
You studied? what?

Don't be silly. Was it a common practice of the Pharisees to 'keep company with prostitutes" ?

and no I do not expect you to believe the stories in their entirety as if they were the literal truth. Pontious Pilate has nothing whatever to do with the fact that there arose a great dispute between the Pharisees and Jesus specifically about what was the righteous interpretation and application of the law.

And I said borough park, not crown heights, among the Bobov Hasidim.....

pay attention.

 

[irosie91]

I do not agree----I read the book-----I found nothing that could credibly be attributed to Jesus that was not entirely
in the manner of the PHARISEES ---nor did I find anything that could reasonably be considered credible that suggested that PHARISEES-----rejected Jesus. If you ask me to believe that SUDDENLY-----jews---at a crucifixtion en masse----chanted "Crucify him Crucify him"----so the poor innocent PONTIUS PILATE crucified
jesus out of FEAR OF THE JOOOS----I will give up
the conversation having determined that you are ------probably --- a bit sick. You lived in Crown Heights amongst the LUBAVITCH---? how nice-----what street?
You studied? what?

Don't be silly. Was it a common practice of the Pharisees to 'keep company with prostitutes" ?

and no I do not expect you to believe the stories in their entirety as if they were the literal truth. Pontious Pilate has nothing whatever to do with the fact that there arose a great dispute between the Pharisees and Jesus specifically about what was the righteous interpretation and application of the law.

And I said borough park, not crown heights, among Bobov Hasidim.....

pay attention.

oh----over there----they are not the OUTREACH type of people-----on what street in Borough park and what did you
study. I saw no conflict between Jesus and the Pharisees
regarding "righteous application of the law"-------ie nothing
that would be credible ---or serious enough to cause conflict and CERTAINLY nothing that would be sufficient for them to want to KILL him

 

[irosie91]

HOBE... Don't be silly. Was it a common practice of the Pharisees to 'keep company with prostitutes" ?

now you gave yourself away-------would the BOBOV want to
kill a man for going to a prostitute?

 

[hobelim]

oh----over there----they are not the OUTREACH type of people-----on what street in Borough park and what did you
study. I saw no conflict between Jesus and the Pharisees
regarding "righteous application of the law"-------ie nothing
that would be credible ---or serious enough to cause conflict and CERTAINLY nothing that would be sufficient for them to want to KILL him

No, not exactly the outreach types, lol... but I was invited..The street is irrelevant and I studied everything.

Hey, I agree that for the most part, that the Jesus conjured by Rome and unleashed on the world in 325 ce bears little resemblance to Jesus as he must have actually existed as a first century Jew living under harsh foreign oppression who was no more radical than reform Jews are today and that it was most likely the romans who killed him for sedition and assembled the stories to make it look like they didn't.

Yet there would not have been rioting after public disputes between Jesus and the Pharisees had everything been hunky dory between them, and the Romans would not have killed him unless he was fingered as the cause of all the unrest, the dispute, irrelevant to the Romans, was specifically about how to correctly understand the words and subjects of the law.

The pharisees took kosher law literally to an absurd extreme and Jesus taught that the subjects of the Law are hidden and are not necessarily directly connected to the literal meaning of the words used, have nothing whatever to do with what you eat or what you wear and much easier to comply with however difficult for some to perceive.

 

[irosie91]

oh----over there----they are not the OUTREACH type of people-----on what street in Borough park and what did you
study. I saw no conflict between Jesus and the Pharisees
regarding "righteous application of the law"-------ie nothing
that would be credible ---or serious enough to cause conflict and CERTAINLY nothing that would be sufficient for them to want to KILL him

No, not exactly the outreach types, lol... but I was invited..The street is irrelevant and I studied everything.

Hey, I agree that for the most part, that the Jesus conjured by Rome and unleashed on the world in 325 ce bears little resemblance to Jesus as he must have actually existed as a first century Jew living under harsh foreign oppression who was no more radical than reform Jews are today and that it was most likely the romans who killed him for sedition and assembled the stories to make it look like they didn't.

Yet there would not have been rioting after public disputes between Jesus and the Pharisees had everything been hunky dory between them, and the romans would not have killed him unless he was fingered as the cause of all the unrest.

There were PUBLIC DISPUTES between Jesus and "THE PHARISEES" which led to "RIOTS"???? you learned that from the BOBOV? I knew the BOBOV are a bit spacey-----but I did not know that they were that OUT OF IT.

who threw the MOLOTOV COCKTAILS? how did
josephus flavius manage to miss this tantalizing tidbit
in Jerusalem -----where he was born?

I am intrigued that the Bobov INVITED YOU-----to what?

 

[hobelim]

There were PUBLIC DISPUTES between Jesus and "THE PHARISEES" which led to "RIOTS"???? you learned that from the BOBOV?

No, I learned that from the Jesuits. Its all in the NT... I thought you read it? Do you think that Jesus calming the storm was about him controlling the weather? Was Peter afraid to 'walk on water' because of some bad weather or because he was afraid of being lynched?

Come on now, ruminate.

I knew the BOBOV are a bit spacey-----but I did not know that they were that OUT OF IT.

LOL... Tell me about it! Have you ever walked the streets the day after Sukkot? Or almost get run over every other Friday evening?

I am intrigued that the Bobov INVITED YOU-----to what?

It wasn't the Bobov it was a Bobov. Invited to become a Bobov, not to mention a few hootenannies, with lots of joyful song and dance.

I had to pass. I had preexisting commitments..

 

[hobelim]

how did
josephus flavius manage to miss this tantalizing tidbit
in Jerusalem -----where he was born?

It could be he missed it because the events happened before he was born? Maybe he never even heard of it since Jesus was thought to have been disposed of as irrelevant?

What do you think?

 

[I.P.Freely]

Are you fucking stupid? you can't be an Athiest and a Jew you fucking retard!

Got zol im bentshn mit dray mentshn,eyner zol im haltn, dertsverter zol im shpaltn un der driter zol im ba'haltn.
Read this and educate yourself you goy putznasher,
Jewish Atheists and Koufax Jews 8211 TheHumanist.com


Some people avoid labels, but not me. I’m a Jew, a humanist, a secular humanist, an atheist, an agnostic, a skeptic, a freethinker, a rationalist, an infidel, and much more. Which label(s) I lead with depends on the context and with whom I’m communicating, but they all help define me in some way.

According to all branches of Judaism, I’m Jewish because my mother was a Jew. I accept this criterion. I’ve met quite a few atheists with Jewish mothers who have tried to convince me that I’m not Jewish because they (the atheists, not their mothers) reject the traditional definition and assert that a real Jew must believe in God. These atheists are free to declare themselves not Jewish, but they have no right to tell me that I’m not.

I grew up in an era that saw considerable discrimination against Jews. In the 1950s it was not uncommon for Jews to change their names and try to pass for gentiles, hoping for acceptance into mainstream culture. I found this deplorable. My Jewish juices flowed most deeply and proudly when anti-Semitism was present. Having relatives who died in the Holocaust, I was not about to give Adolf Hitler a posthumous victory by killing off my own Judaism.

But my Judaism is more than anti-anti-Semitism. I’m a cultural Jew in many ways. I like latkes, knishes, and even gefilte fish—which makes me a gastronomic Jew. There are other aspects of Jewish culture and values that have shaped me as well. A disproportionately high percentage of Jews have been engaged in civil rights activism, for example, and it’s also a certain point of pride that while numbering less than 1 percent of the world population they have earned 21 percent of Nobel Prizes. And probably most Jews belong to a branch I call “humoristic Judaism.”

Here’s my favorite Jewish atheist joke: When a Jewish atheist heard that the best school in town happened to be Catholic, he enrolled his son. Things were going very well until one day the boy came home and said he had just learned all about the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. The father, barely able to control his rage, seized his son by the shoulders and said, “David, this is very important, so listen carefully: there is only ONE God—and we don’t believe in Him!”

I prefer the label “Jewish atheist” to “Jewish humanist,” though I think the two labels mean pretty much the same thing. You can be an atheist without being a humanist, and you can be a Jew without being a humanist, but those of us who label ourselves Jewish atheists accept the ethical and humanistic parts of Judaism without the God parts. As a mathematician who understands what a proof is, I used to call myself an agnostic because I could neither prove nor disprove the existence of God. When I heard an atheist defined as someone “without a belief in any gods,” I said, “Okay, then I’m an atheist.”

There’s an important connection between Judaism and atheism. The high priority given to the education of children in Jewish culture (and the praise given to those who ask questions) is undoubtedly a reason why so many Jews become atheists.

Just as I once wanted Jews to come out of their closets, so I now want atheists to come out of theirs. Today in America there is relatively little discrimination against Jews, but quite a bit against atheists. For this reason, I now think of myself (again depending on context) more as an atheist who happens to be a Jew, rather than as a Jew who happens to be an atheist. When I ran for governor of South Carolina in 1990 to challenge the state constitution’s prohibition against atheists holding public office, I hoped to speak at a number of religious institutions during my campaign, but the Unitarian Church was the only one to invite me. The director of the Jewish Community Center in Charleston waffled about the reason for turning me down, but the gist of his response was that my going public about being a Jewish atheist was bad for the Jews.

A bonus to being Jewish is that I can criticize Jews, Jewish practices, or Jewish beliefs without being labeled anti-Semitic, just as criticism of U.S. political leaders or policy is better tolerated from American citizens. Many Orthodox Jews oppose exchanging land for peace in Israel because God made a covenant with Abraham’s son Isaac to give Israel to the Jews. Many Muslims oppose land for peace because God made a covenant with Abraham’s other son Ishmael to give that same land to the Muslims. And many Christians oppose land for peace because God said his son wouldn’t return until Jews have all that land, after which most Jews will be left behind when Christians are raptured into Heaven. Who can be optimistic about peace when so many “holy” people are killing for a god occupied in the real estate business who’s overpromised the so-called holy land? My solution is a paraphrase of the 1969 John Lennon peace song: “All we are saying, is give secular a chance.”

I think fundamentalists in all religions create artificial and harmful “us versus them” divisions. When I told an ultra-Orthodox aunt that I was getting married, she had just one question: “Is she Jewish?” When this aunt got the dreaded answer that Sharon Fratepietro was not Jewish, she refused to meet or talk to Sharon. We married in our fifties and could laugh and feel sorry for our relative, but such attitudes have torn apart many families. I told a more moderate aunt that Sharon and I were both atheists, and she asked, “So, couldn’t you marry a Jewish atheist?” She was only half-joking.

While I was growing up in the 1950s, all Jews I knew played the celebrity game: “Jew, not a Jew?” Most of my favorite comedians, including Milton Berle, Sid Caesar, Groucho Marx, Jack Benny, George Burns, Jerry Lewis, Red Buttons, and Phil Silvers, passed the Jew test. We Jews knew they were Jews, but most of the gentile public might not have known because I never heard these comedians mention it publicly. In contrast, some of my favorite comedians today, such as Woody Allen, Mel Brooks, Jon Stewart, Jerry Seinfeld, Larry David, and Sarah Silverman (no relation, unfortunately), not only pass the Jew test but make Judaism part of their shtick. So now I play a variant of my ’50s game: “atheist Jew, not an atheist Jew?” Interestingly, whereas the ’50s comedians were probably all closeted atheist Jews, the modern ones are open about being atheist Jews. Our Jewish culture has changed for the better.

I think anti-Semitism has inspired much Jewish humor (better to laugh than to cry). After the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten published the now infamous Muhammad cartoons in 2005, an Iranian paper responded with a Holocaust cartoons contest. I was especially proud to be a Jew when a group of Israelis countered with their own anti-Semitic cartoons contest. One organizer said, “We’ll show the world we can do the best, sharpest, most offensive Jew-hating cartoons ever published! No Iranian will beat us on our home turf!”

Regretfully, I can’t draw cartoons, but here’s one of my favorite anti-Semitic jokes: Two Jews see a sign in front of a church that says “$100 to convert.” One of the Jews says, “Why not? It’s an easy way to make a quick buck.” The other Jew waits outside to see if it works. After forty-five minutes the first Jew comes out and the second Jew asks, “Well, did you get the $100?” The first responds, “Is that all you Jews ever think about, money?”

Growing up, whenever a Jew did something publicly, my family and many other Jewish families took it personally. As a baseball fan in 1951, I was listening to the radio as Bobby Thompson hit his dramatic, pennant-winning home run. When we started shouting, my Hungarian grandmother, who knew nothing about baseball, asked the natural question: “Is this good or bad for the Jews?” My grandmother was surprised when we answered, “Neither.” Her question isn’t asked much anymore, and I think that’s because of what I consider the best day for American Jews in my lifetime, perhaps in the history of America. On October 6, 1965, a baseball game was unequivocally good for the Jews.

The Jew who led American Jews to a promised land of inclusion was not the fictional Abraham or Moses, but the real Sandy Koufax. He was the best baseball pitcher in 1965, maybe ever, and was the natural choice to pitch the opening game of the World Series for the Los Angeles Dodgers against the Minnesota Twins. What transpired was the most important non-event event imaginable for me and many other Jews at the time.

Sandy Koufax declined to play because it was Yom Kippur, considered the holiest day of the year for Jews. (Don Drysdale, the Dodgers pitcher who replaced Koufax in the first game of the series, pitched poorly, and when the manager came to pull him out Drysdale asked, “Don’t you wish I was Jewish too?”)

Sandy Koufax, to me, was the Jewish Jackie Robinson. I don’t mean in any way to equate the considerable racism against African Americans in this country with the relatively minor anti-Semitism, but in some ways Koufax did for Jewish Americans what Robinson did for African Americans. Nothing at the time seemed more American than baseball, and nothing in baseball is more important than the World Series. He showed that Jews could succeed in a non-Jewish world. No longer would we always look through the “good or bad for the Jews” lens. We became Americans who felt more comfortable being openly Jewish and not so easily stereotyped. At a time when many Jews kept quiet about their Judaism, Koufax probably emboldened other Jews to be outwardly Jewish.

So what kind of Jew was Sandy Koufax? According to Jane Leavy’s description in her 2002 book, Sandy Koufax: A Lefty’s Legacy, Koufax was a secular, non-practicing Jew. He stayed in his hotel room on October 6, 1965, belying the reports of thousands of Jews who said they saw Koufax at various synagogues in Minneapolis that day. (Myths, especially about heroes and religious leaders, are easily started.)

Jews observe Yom Kippur in various ways, and some not at all. My non-observant tradition is to think back to the game Sandy Koufax didn’t pitch, and what it means to be open about who you are. Barney Frank, who recently retired from the U.S. Congress after thirty-two years in office, was the first openly gay member of Congress (though certainly not the first Jew). Only after he retired did he acknowledge being a Jewish atheist. He then received the 2014 Humanist of the Year award from the American Humanist Association. In his acceptance speech, Frank said he doesn’t go out in public on Yom Kippur because he wants to show respect for Judaism.

I’ve now come up with another label to go along with Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, and Humanistic Jew, which is a Sandy Koufax Jew (or Koufax Jew for short): a Jewish atheist who chooses not to work on Yom Kippur. Though I’m not one, I respect those who are. So as far as I’m concerned, whatever you do on Yom Kippur is good for the Jewsthe September / October 2014 Humanist


http://thehumanist.com/popular-posts

http://thehumanist.com/commentary/censoring-american-history

http://thehumanist.com/arts_entertainment/culture/we-owe-our-children-quality-educational-tv

 

[Penelope]

Are you fucking stupid? you can't be an Athiest and a Jew you fucking retard!

I guess that depends on who you ask: But that is a jewish thing isn't it, they make it up as they go.

Jewish secularism - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Throughout modern history, Jewish thinkers have challenged traditional Judaism. As early as the nineteenth century, members of the Society for the Culture and Science of the Jews (Verein fur Kultur und Wissenschaft der Juden) viewed Judaism as a culture, not a religion. These secularists, building on foundations of the Enlightenment, Haskalah, were keen to integrate humanistic culture and education with a Jewish culture not linked to rabbinical dictates, or the existence of a personal God.


State of Israel[edit]
The creation of the State of Israel in 1948 is often seen as secular Judaism’s greatest achievement, with Hebrew as a spoken language rather than a language of prayer, and the majority of the population living secular Jewish lives. Some 2000 secular Israeli schools exist, where children study Jewish history and literature and celebrate the holidays without prayer or religion.

SECULAR AND ATHIEST ARE NOT THE SAME YOU ASS HAT!

What is the difference.

 

[irosie91]

how did
josephus flavius manage to miss this tantalizing tidbit
in Jerusalem -----where he was born?

It could be he missed it because the events happened before he was born? Maybe he never even heard of it since Jesus was thought to have been disposed of as irrelevant?

What do you think?

Josephus Flavius was born in Jeruslem DURING the time
that jesus lived. THERE ARE RECORDS of his life----he
authored a very real and very important book of HISTORY

I do not INVENT-----he may have been very young----but he was still around when Jesus was around during the time
you just invented "RIOTS" between Pharisees and
the POPULATION OF JERUSALEM-----gee---you are actually completely ignorant about the period of time about which you post with confidence-------the BOBOV taught you? (I always thought that were a bit scattered in their
thinking)

 

[irosie91]

There were PUBLIC DISPUTES between Jesus and "THE PHARISEES" which led to "RIOTS"???? you learned that from the BOBOV?

No, I learned that from the Jesuits. Its all in the NT... I thought you read it? Do you think that Jesus calming the storm was about him controlling the weather? Was Peter afraid to 'walk on water' because of some bad weather or because he was afraid of being lynched?

Come on now, ruminate.

I knew the BOBOV are a bit spacey-----but I did not know that they were that OUT OF IT.

LOL... Tell me about it! Have you ever walked the streets the day after Sukkot? Or almost get run over every other Friday evening?

I am intrigued that the Bobov INVITED YOU-----to what?

It wasn't the Bobov it was a Bobov. Invited to become a Bobov, not to mention a few hootenannies, with lots of joyful song and dance.

I had to pass. I had preexisting commitments..

you did not answer the question-----I asked about the RIOTS in Jerusalem---------walking on water happened in the Galilee------did you not read the book? Please give me a citation re RIOTS between PHARISEES and ----everyone else------btw ------who is the "everyone else"????

 

[irosie91]

Are you fucking stupid? you can't be an Athiest and a Jew you fucking retard!

I guess that depends on who you ask: But that is a jewish thing isn't it, they make it up as they go.

Jewish secularism - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Throughout modern history, Jewish thinkers have challenged traditional Judaism. As early as the nineteenth century, members of the Society for the Culture and Science of the Jews (Verein fur Kultur und Wissenschaft der Juden) viewed Judaism as a culture, not a religion. These secularists, building on foundations of the Enlightenment, Haskalah, were keen to integrate humanistic culture and education with a Jewish culture not linked to rabbinical dictates, or the existence of a personal God.


State of Israel[edit]
The creation of the State of Israel in 1948 is often seen as secular Judaism’s greatest achievement, with Hebrew as a spoken language rather than a language of prayer, and the majority of the population living secular Jewish lives. Some 2000 secular Israeli schools exist, where children study Jewish history and literature and celebrate the holidays without prayer or religion.

SECULAR AND ATHIEST ARE NOT THE SAME YOU ASS HAT!

What is the difference.

"secular" refers to anything not EXCLUSIVLY defined
by a religion----- that's all As a matter of common
usage-----it is a matter of the connotation of the person
using the word. A Secular School ----USUALLY refers to a school not associated with a particular religion ------such a school does not need to TEACH ATHEISM to be a "secular school" When jews use the term "secular" to describe OTHER jews----they are usually describing jews LESS
adherent to religious ritual than themselves. and that is about it. It is a word that conotes rather than denotes. In Israel----generally----anyone who does not maintain strict
adherence to Sabbath laws and kosher laws is called a "SECULAR JEW"----and that is about it. I have known
catholics who have some criterion about being a "lapsed"
catholic if a catholic has not attended "confession" for a
"long time" (whatever is a 'long time') and has not attended
mass. Some protestants are very fussy about BAPTISM---some about attending church every sunday.

 

[irosie91]

oh----over there----they are not the OUTREACH type of people-----on what street in Borough park and what did you
study. I saw no conflict between Jesus and the Pharisees
regarding "righteous application of the law"-------ie nothing
that would be credible ---or serious enough to cause conflict and CERTAINLY nothing that would be sufficient for them to want to KILL him

No, not exactly the outreach types, lol... but I was invited..The street is irrelevant and I studied everything.

Hey, I agree that for the most part, that the Jesus conjured by Rome and unleashed on the world in 325 ce bears little resemblance to Jesus as he must have actually existed as a first century Jew living under harsh foreign oppression who was no more radical than reform Jews are today and that it was most likely the romans who killed him for sedition and assembled the stories to make it look like they didn't.

Yet there would not have been rioting after public disputes between Jesus and the Pharisees had everything been hunky dory between them, and the Romans would not have killed him unless he was fingered as the cause of all the unrest, the dispute, irrelevant to the Romans, was specifically about how to correctly understand the words and subjects of the law.

The pharisees took kosher law literally to an absurd extreme and Jesus taught that the subjects of the Law are hidden and are not necessarily directly connected to the literal meaning of the words used, have nothing whatever to do with what you eat or what you wear and much easier to comply with however difficult for some to perceive.

HOBE----learn something about the Pharisees-----from real sources----the NT is not a source for that purpose. There
is no evidence even in the NT---that jesus violated the kosher rules------that stuff was a machination of PAUL---a
person who never met Jesus