Does it ever bother Chrisitans that so many well known atheist are Jews?

[irosie91]

-and now for the facts-------If you want to know what
a Pharisee was-------read the New Testament-----Jesus as
an EPITOME OF PHARISEE in every detail---

I don't think so.....



“The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice. They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger. They do all their deeds to be seen by others. For they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues and greetings in the marketplaces and being called rabbi by others. But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ. The greatest among you shall be your servant. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.

“Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.’ You blind fools! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that has made the gold sacred? And you say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gift that is on the altar, he is bound by his oath.’ You blind men! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred? So whoever swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. And whoever swears by the temple swears by it and by him who dwells in it. And whoever swears by heaven swears by the throne of God and by him who sits upon it.

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean.

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people's bones and all uncleanness. So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous, saying, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ Thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers. You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell? Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

The key to understanding those lines is WHO WROTE THEM AND WHEN. and---of course to understand the
style and symbolism

everytime AMOS writes ----"the lord saith....." does not
indicate that he is trying to claim he had a conversation with
"the lord"

 

[Penelope]

Hobelim , I agree Jesus was not a Pharisee.

 

[irosie91]

Jesus a "turn coat"??? who told you that? Jesus died as did the approximately 20,000 other Pharisee jews------for rebellion against the filth of Rome---

Jesus did die like thousands of Pharisees and was raised observant in the Pharisaic traditions but there was obviously a disagreement between Jesus and the Pharisees who called each other sinners while each claimed the righteous observance of the Law.

"We know this man is a sinner. He keeps company with prostitutes." vs. "I always do exactly as God commands."

The only way to understand how each could accuse the other of sin while each claimed obedience is to realize that Jesus found another way to understand the deeper implications of the law hidden by the figurative language used in the same way that Hilkiah the high priest found the book of the Law hidden in the ruins of the wall of the temple.

Everything that Jesus said from , 'why worry about what you eat or what you wear.." or " what goes into the mouth cannot defile a man it's what comes out of his mouth that defiles him." to 'unless you eat my flesh you cannot have life in you." confirms this. His final command to. "eat my flesh' encapsulates this sublime teaching as a direct reference to the righteous understanding and application of kosher law that leads to the promise of eternal life fulfilled in this life...



"The kingdom of heaven is like treasure lying buried in a field. The man who found it, buried it again." Matthew 13:44


"I will give you hidden treasures, riches stored in secret places, so that you may know that I am the LORD, the God of Israel, who summons you by name." Isaiah 45:3

Hobe------I will help you understand-----THAT's HOW
PHARISEES SPOKE TO EACH OTHER-----in matters of
religion they all expressed STRONG OPINIONS in very
strong language -------and that is all there is to it.
Think Jeremiah think ZEALOT The impression of
that which was a Pharisee that you learned in sunday school---was entirely erroneous. Long ago I came upon
a copy of a book----in English ----which was a translation of
JOSEPHUS FLAVIUS ---- I got it from the hands of a nice
guy wearing a big cross. --------it was a loan. The book included a REVIEW by a Christian theologian------part of the review ----- "the book is accurate in detail----EXCEPT FOR ONE MISTAKE-----the historian Josephus Flavius
MISTAKENLY describes the Pharisees in glowing terms---
with words like "modest" "men of good will"-----
"kind" "scholarly" etc etc etc I really enjoyed that one------and now for the facts-------If you want to know what
a Pharisee was-------read the New Testament-----Jesus as
an EPITOME OF PHARISEE in every detail-----including
his comments and his crucifixtion Just about all the jews
the romans crucified were Pharisees. Josephus Flavius was a "COHEN"------he took the position of "lets compromise with the romans ----for awhile to avoid
being slaughtered" He ended up surrendering to the
romans-----and even became a ROMAN CITIZEN---(rare for
a jew back then) and he devoted his life to THE HISTORY OF THE JEWISH WARS ,,,, actually a history of the time
of roman control which is the time of Jesus. Thus---he was an historian----highly regarded even today. For awhile jews considered him something like a traitor----but----that
idea evaporated--------he did what he did----he documented
the history.

when young----I knew as little as most adolescents about the history of those times----but I was an avid reader-----
very random----I just read anything that fell under my nose.
Based on lots of reading------I came to the conclusion that
JESUS was a Pharisee. ----it was only later on----that I came to understand that historians of those times AGREE.
The reality just happens not to be standard sunday school
POV and it certainly does not show up in "jewish books" I know it is difficult for a person brought up on ---
the "EVIL PHARISEE" creed------kinda like learning that the early americans did not REALLY get along with the Indians all that well. the idyllic first thanksgiving-----
is just a kinda myth too

He was a traitor, he went on to live a fairly good life being a slave, didn't he, but yes he did write history. Some say Josephus Flavius was pen name, ever hear of Caesars Messiah ideation or book, upon which Jesus's life is based on Titus. Who could ever make up the story of a woman Mary in the Jewish war who had an infant and put it to death to feed upon it (rather like the last supper thing in the NT). Oh I will have to refresh my memory on Josephus writing's of which Eusebius did rely on him quite a bit. Also his ship accident sure sounds like the Paul incident. Who was Josephus? really.

Josephus flavius was an historic character who wrote an
extensive history-----in fact his books ended up in the VATICAN LIBRARY------gee you are dim-------He was captured in war by the romans----and enslaved---but quickly rose to a PROMINENT position because of his knowledge and scholarship and thus was made free and even made a ROMAN CITIZEN which was a big deal in those days
for a non roman let alone a jew. He is not considered
a traitor-----but was for a long time Gee you are dim----if you google you will find a picture of his carved "bust"----on the net. EUSEBIUS is a fraud ------like you. His "history" is entirely fanciful

 

[High_Gravity]

Are you fucking stupid? you can't be an Athiest and a Jew you fucking retard!

 

[Penelope]

-and now for the facts-------If you want to know what
a Pharisee was-------read the New Testament-----Jesus as
an EPITOME OF PHARISEE in every detail---

I don't think so.....



“The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice. They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger. They do all their deeds to be seen by others. For they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues and greetings in the marketplaces and being called rabbi by others. But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ. The greatest among you shall be your servant. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.

“Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.’ You blind fools! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that has made the gold sacred? And you say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gift that is on the altar, he is bound by his oath.’ You blind men! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred? So whoever swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. And whoever swears by the temple swears by it and by him who dwells in it. And whoever swears by heaven swears by the throne of God and by him who sits upon it.

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean.

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people's bones and all uncleanness. So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous, saying, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ Thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers. You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell? Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

The key to understanding those lines is WHO WROTE THEM AND WHEN. and---of course to understand the
style and symbolism

everytime AMOS writes ----"the lord saith....." does not
indicate that he is trying to claim he had a conversation with
"the lord"

Oh which brings me up to another book "Minds of the Bible" wrote by a Rabbi Cohen (I believe the spelling of his name correct) who read Julian Jaynes book about the Bicameral Mind, and agreed with his hypothesis, and wrote his short book. actually its about the evolution of introspection. Read Minds of the Bible, its short, Julian Jayne's is about 500 pages.You may not agree with it, but its another way of seeing things.

 

[irosie91]

Hobelim , I agree Jesus was not a Pharisee.

you don't know what a Pharisee was. and never will.
It's almost funny ----without knowing anything about "PHARISEEs" you decided "jesus was not a Pharisee"---

It walked the walk and talked the talk It ate with Pharisees its friends were Pharisees it was entombed
in a Pharisee tomb-----but it was not a Pharisee-----too too funny

 

[Penelope]

Jesus a "turn coat"??? who told you that? Jesus died as did the approximately 20,000 other Pharisee jews------for rebellion against the filth of Rome---

Jesus did die like thousands of Pharisees and was raised observant in the Pharisaic traditions but there was obviously a disagreement between Jesus and the Pharisees who called each other sinners while each claimed the righteous observance of the Law.

"We know this man is a sinner. He keeps company with prostitutes." vs. "I always do exactly as God commands."

The only way to understand how each could accuse the other of sin while each claimed obedience is to realize that Jesus found another way to understand the deeper implications of the law hidden by the figurative language used in the same way that Hilkiah the high priest found the book of the Law hidden in the ruins of the wall of the temple.

Everything that Jesus said from , 'why worry about what you eat or what you wear.." or " what goes into the mouth cannot defile a man it's what comes out of his mouth that defiles him." to 'unless you eat my flesh you cannot have life in you." confirms this. His final command to. "eat my flesh' encapsulates this sublime teaching as a direct reference to the righteous understanding and application of kosher law that leads to the promise of eternal life fulfilled in this life...



"The kingdom of heaven is like treasure lying buried in a field. The man who found it, buried it again." Matthew 13:44


"I will give you hidden treasures, riches stored in secret places, so that you may know that I am the LORD, the God of Israel, who summons you by name." Isaiah 45:3

Hobe------I will help you understand-----THAT's HOW
PHARISEES SPOKE TO EACH OTHER-----in matters of
religion they all expressed STRONG OPINIONS in very
strong language -------and that is all there is to it.
Think Jeremiah think ZEALOT The impression of
that which was a Pharisee that you learned in sunday school---was entirely erroneous. Long ago I came upon
a copy of a book----in English ----which was a translation of
JOSEPHUS FLAVIUS ---- I got it from the hands of a nice
guy wearing a big cross. --------it was a loan. The book included a REVIEW by a Christian theologian------part of the review ----- "the book is accurate in detail----EXCEPT FOR ONE MISTAKE-----the historian Josephus Flavius
MISTAKENLY describes the Pharisees in glowing terms---
with words like "modest" "men of good will"-----
"kind" "scholarly" etc etc etc I really enjoyed that one------and now for the facts-------If you want to know what
a Pharisee was-------read the New Testament-----Jesus as
an EPITOME OF PHARISEE in every detail-----including
his comments and his crucifixtion Just about all the jews
the romans crucified were Pharisees. Josephus Flavius was a "COHEN"------he took the position of "lets compromise with the romans ----for awhile to avoid
being slaughtered" He ended up surrendering to the
romans-----and even became a ROMAN CITIZEN---(rare for
a jew back then) and he devoted his life to THE HISTORY OF THE JEWISH WARS ,,,, actually a history of the time
of roman control which is the time of Jesus. Thus---he was an historian----highly regarded even today. For awhile jews considered him something like a traitor----but----that
idea evaporated--------he did what he did----he documented
the history.

when young----I knew as little as most adolescents about the history of those times----but I was an avid reader-----
very random----I just read anything that fell under my nose.
Based on lots of reading------I came to the conclusion that
JESUS was a Pharisee. ----it was only later on----that I came to understand that historians of those times AGREE.
The reality just happens not to be standard sunday school
POV and it certainly does not show up in "jewish books" I know it is difficult for a person brought up on ---
the "EVIL PHARISEE" creed------kinda like learning that the early americans did not REALLY get along with the Indians all that well. the idyllic first thanksgiving-----
is just a kinda myth too

He was a traitor, he went on to live a fairly good life being a slave, didn't he, but yes he did write history. Some say Josephus Flavius was pen name, ever hear of Caesars Messiah ideation or book, upon which Jesus's life is based on Titus. Who could ever make up the story of a woman Mary in the Jewish war who had an infant and put it to death to feed upon it (rather like the last supper thing in the NT). Oh I will have to refresh my memory on Josephus writing's of which Eusebius did rely on him quite a bit. Also his ship accident sure sounds like the Paul incident. Who was Josephus? really.

Josephus flavius was an historic character who wrote an
extensive history-----in fact his books ended up in the VATICAN LIBRARY------gee you are dim-------He was captured in war by the romans----and enslaved---but quickly rose to a PROMINENT position because of his knowledge and scholarship and thus was made free and even made a ROMAN CITIZEN which was a big deal in those days
for a non roman let alone a jew. He is not considered
a traitor-----but was for a long time Gee you are dim----if you google you will find a picture of his carved "bust"----on the net. EUSEBIUS is a fraud ------like you. His "history" is entirely fanciful

Oh yes, his writings are online. But who was he , did he write using a pen name? Eusebius is not fraud, have you read his Proof and Prep of the Bible? he wrote for Constantine? One can learn a lot of history from it.

 

[Esmeralda]

Does it ever bother Christians that so many well known atheists are Jews??

I don't care anything about atheists or Jews or Christians, or any of this. But I think it is darn funny for you to say a Jew is an atheist. Judaism is a religion. One cannot be a Jew and an atheist at the same time. That's like saying someone who is born a Christian but later chooses to be an atheist is somehow both a Christian and an atheist at the same time. It's ludicrous.

 

[irosie91]

-and now for the facts-------If you want to know what
a Pharisee was-------read the New Testament-----Jesus as
an EPITOME OF PHARISEE in every detail---

I don't think so.....

what a joke you are Penelope-----the books you cite are something like the the comic book approach to neuroscience-----the "BICAMERAL" theory of brain function is utterly idiotic----you need to know something about cognition? ask me ----I have dissected at least 100 brains---neuro science is fascinating----ie the real stuff---
not the cartoon books that you read. Do you like
HARELQUINN romances too? -----


“The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice. They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger. They do all their deeds to be seen by others. For they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues and greetings in the marketplaces and being called rabbi by others. But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ. The greatest among you shall be your servant. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.

“Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.’ You blind fools! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that has made the gold sacred? And you say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gift that is on the altar, he is bound by his oath.’ You blind men! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred? So whoever swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. And whoever swears by the temple swears by it and by him who dwells in it. And whoever swears by heaven swears by the throne of God and by him who sits upon it.

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean.

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people's bones and all uncleanness. So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous, saying, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ Thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers. You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell? Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

The key to understanding those lines is WHO WROTE THEM AND WHEN. and---of course to understand the
style and symbolism

everytime AMOS writes ----"the lord saith....." does not
indicate that he is trying to claim he had a conversation with
"the lord"

Oh which brings me up to another book "Minds of the Bible" wrote by a Rabbi Cohen (I believe the spelling of his name correct) who read Julian Jaynes book about the Bicameral Mind, and agreed with his hypothesis, and wrote his short book. actually its about the evolution of introspection. Read Minds of the Bible, its short, Julian Jayne's is about 500 pages.You may not agree with it, but its another way of seeing things.

 

[irosie91]

Jesus a "turn coat"??? who told you that? Jesus died as did the approximately 20,000 other Pharisee jews------for rebellion against the filth of Rome---

Jesus did die like thousands of Pharisees and was raised observant in the Pharisaic traditions but there was obviously a disagreement between Jesus and the Pharisees who called each other sinners while each claimed the righteous observance of the Law.

"We know this man is a sinner. He keeps company with prostitutes." vs. "I always do exactly as God commands."

The only way to understand how each could accuse the other of sin while each claimed obedience is to realize that Jesus found another way to understand the deeper implications of the law hidden by the figurative language used in the same way that Hilkiah the high priest found the book of the Law hidden in the ruins of the wall of the temple.

Everything that Jesus said from , 'why worry about what you eat or what you wear.." or " what goes into the mouth cannot defile a man it's what comes out of his mouth that defiles him." to 'unless you eat my flesh you cannot have life in you." confirms this. His final command to. "eat my flesh' encapsulates this sublime teaching as a direct reference to the righteous understanding and application of kosher law that leads to the promise of eternal life fulfilled in this life...



"The kingdom of heaven is like treasure lying buried in a field. The man who found it, buried it again." Matthew 13:44


"I will give you hidden treasures, riches stored in secret places, so that you may know that I am the LORD, the God of Israel, who summons you by name." Isaiah 45:3

Hobe------I will help you understand-----THAT's HOW
PHARISEES SPOKE TO EACH OTHER-----in matters of
religion they all expressed STRONG OPINIONS in very
strong language -------and that is all there is to it.
Think Jeremiah think ZEALOT The impression of
that which was a Pharisee that you learned in sunday school---was entirely erroneous. Long ago I came upon
a copy of a book----in English ----which was a translation of
JOSEPHUS FLAVIUS ---- I got it from the hands of a nice
guy wearing a big cross. --------it was a loan. The book included a REVIEW by a Christian theologian------part of the review ----- "the book is accurate in detail----EXCEPT FOR ONE MISTAKE-----the historian Josephus Flavius
MISTAKENLY describes the Pharisees in glowing terms---
with words like "modest" "men of good will"-----
"kind" "scholarly" etc etc etc I really enjoyed that one------and now for the facts-------If you want to know what
a Pharisee was-------read the New Testament-----Jesus as
an EPITOME OF PHARISEE in every detail-----including
his comments and his crucifixtion Just about all the jews
the romans crucified were Pharisees. Josephus Flavius was a "COHEN"------he took the position of "lets compromise with the romans ----for awhile to avoid
being slaughtered" He ended up surrendering to the
romans-----and even became a ROMAN CITIZEN---(rare for
a jew back then) and he devoted his life to THE HISTORY OF THE JEWISH WARS ,,,, actually a history of the time
of roman control which is the time of Jesus. Thus---he was an historian----highly regarded even today. For awhile jews considered him something like a traitor----but----that
idea evaporated--------he did what he did----he documented
the history.

when young----I knew as little as most adolescents about the history of those times----but I was an avid reader-----
very random----I just read anything that fell under my nose.
Based on lots of reading------I came to the conclusion that
JESUS was a Pharisee. ----it was only later on----that I came to understand that historians of those times AGREE.
The reality just happens not to be standard sunday school
POV and it certainly does not show up in "jewish books" I know it is difficult for a person brought up on ---
the "EVIL PHARISEE" creed------kinda like learning that the early americans did not REALLY get along with the Indians all that well. the idyllic first thanksgiving-----
is just a kinda myth too

He was a traitor, he went on to live a fairly good life being a slave, didn't he, but yes he did write history. Some say Josephus Flavius was pen name, ever hear of Caesars Messiah ideation or book, upon which Jesus's life is based on Titus. Who could ever make up the story of a woman Mary in the Jewish war who had an infant and put it to death to feed upon it (rather like the last supper thing in the NT). Oh I will have to refresh my memory on Josephus writing's of which Eusebius did rely on him quite a bit. Also his ship accident sure sounds like the Paul incident. Who was Josephus? really.

Josephus flavius was an historic character who wrote an
extensive history-----in fact his books ended up in the VATICAN LIBRARY------gee you are dim-------He was captured in war by the romans----and enslaved---but quickly rose to a PROMINENT position because of his knowledge and scholarship and thus was made free and even made a ROMAN CITIZEN which was a big deal in those days
for a non roman let alone a jew. He is not considered
a traitor-----but was for a long time Gee you are dim----if you google you will find a picture of his carved "bust"----on the net. EUSEBIUS is a fraud ------like you. His "history" is entirely fanciful

Oh yes, his writings are online. But who was he , did he write using a pen name? Eusebius is not fraud, have you read his Proof and Prep of the Bible? he wrote for Constantine? One can learn a lot of history from it.

one can learn revisionist history ----tailored to the requirements of the founder of Nazism-----Constantine.
Emperor of the FIRST REICH ----as credible as
the Emperor of the THIRD REICH. ----gee you
are dim. Did you know that it was Constantine who
invented the YELLOW INSIGNIA for jews? ----Adolf
was his true heir. He as so disgusting a character
that there are EASTERN ORTHODOX theologians that
DENY THE ALLEGATION that he was a Christian----
they focus on HELEN his mother who was not a mass
murdering Nazi pig

 

[irosie91]

Does it ever bother Christians that so many well known atheists are Jews??

I don't care anything about atheists or Jews or Christians, or any of this. But I think it is darn funny for you to say a Jew is an atheist. Judaism is a religion. One cannot be a Jew and an atheist at the same time. That's like saying someone who is born a Christian but later chooses to be an atheist is somehow both a Christian and an atheist at the same time. It's ludicrous.

A jew is a jew according to jewish law----if he is "of
the house of Israel" or has been "ADOPTED"
by the "HOUSE OF ISRAEL"------ie he converted. It is logical that jews define that which is a jew-----and boy scouts define that which is a boy scout

 

[irosie91]

[QUOTE="Penelope,

Oh yes, his writings are online. But who was he , did he write using a pen name? Eusebius is not fraud, have you read his Proof and Prep of the Bible? he wrote for Constantine? One can learn a lot of history from it.[/QUOTE]

Eusebius wrote in support of the revisionist history of the FIRST REICH (holy roman empire) of which Constantine was the emperor -----He wrote about events which occurred long before he was born -----based very little on
credible information---and mostly on church dogma.

Josephus Flavius was born in Jerusalem during the "first century AD" He witnessed much of the action about which he wrote----and was PART of it----ie the jewish rebellion against Roman oppression. His name was JOSEPH ( a very common name amongst jews then and now) his father's name was MATHIAS (Matityahu)
and he was a cohen-----so he was JOSEPH BEN MATHIAS the COHEN As a war captive enslaved he
became known by the name of the people to whom he was
enslaved----FLAVIUS-----thus JOSEPHUS FLAVIUS-----
A lot more is known about the real historian JOSEPHUS
FLAVIUS than is known about Eusebius----the guy who
wrote up the revisionist history of the HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE

 

[hobelim]

The key to understanding those lines is WHO WROTE THEM AND WHEN. and---of course to understand the
style and symbolism

everytime AMOS writes ----"the lord saith....." does not
indicate that he is trying to claim he had a conversation with
"the lord"

One thing has nothing whatever to do with the other. Even if Jesus was raised observant in the Pharisaic traditions as is indicated by the stories of his youth and in some of his teachings, "Do what they say but do not do what they do for they say one thing yet do another", all of the available evidence clearly shows that Jesus rejected their traditions and practices as an adult and that the Pharisees clearly rejected Jesus and his teachings as either demonic, the sorcery of a sinner and false prophet, or the pathetic hubris of a drunken lunatic .

It wasn't until I was studying Judaism while living among the Hasidic community of Borough Park was my mind opened to understand the problem Jesus had with the Pharisees and their teachings and obsessions over what to wear and what to make for dinner or what not to do on the Sabbath..

Looking back, I'm sure it can't be that difficult for you to now see......

 

[Coyote]

Christopher Hitchens, Samuel Harris, Bill Maher? They also say that 50% or better in Israel are secular, and even the PM Bibl is secular, and most of the Zionist were atheist. Does that not make you wonder why they do not believe the OT is the word of God?

Secular Jews don't necessarily equal athiest. There are secular Christians and Muslims as well. That's a faulty premise.

 

[haissem123]

Christopher Hitchens, Samuel Harris, Bill Maher? They also say that 50% or better in Israel are secular, and even the PM Bibl is secular, and most of the Zionist were atheist. Does that not make you wonder why they do not believe the OT is the word of God?

are the atheist going the right way? is bill maher? he seems so smart. or is he just a smart ass? why would it bother a christian if anybody thinks differently? do you think bibi and israel is going the right way? i don't no hitchens or harris so can't really care about them much if they are that unimportant that I don't know about them.lol

 

[hobelim]

Hobelim , I agree Jesus was not a Pharisee.

Thank you, and I agree with you that Jesus was not a pharisee as surely as Mohammed was not a prophet of God..

 

[haissem123]

The key to understanding those lines is WHO WROTE THEM AND WHEN. and---of course to understand the
style and symbolism

everytime AMOS writes ----"the lord saith....." does not
indicate that he is trying to claim he had a conversation with
"the lord"

One thing has nothing whatever to do with the other. Even if Jesus was raised observant in the Pharisaic traditions as is indicated by the stories of his youth and in some of his teachings, "Do what they say but do not do what they do for they say one thing yet do another", all of the available evidence clearly shows that Jesus rejected their traditions and practices as an adult and that the Pharisees clearly rejected Jesus and his teachings as either demonic, the sorcery of a sinner and false prophet, or the pathetic hubris of a drunken lunatic .

It wasn't until I was studying Judaism while living among the Hasidic community of Borough Park was my mind opened to understand the problem Jesus had with the Pharisees and their teachings and obsessions over what to wear and what to make for dinner or what not to do on the Sabbath..

Looking back, I'm sure it can't be that difficult for you to now see......

i have heard of another self proclaimed prophet that says the end of this error in human history and now that's not a typo, is drawing nigh. he comes off as a sinner hearing God's word and being forced by God's will to bring it to humanity. Sounds like Jesus to me but he knows he's not nor can he live up to God's laws, yet. He even questions his own sanity because this crazy vain world makes him doubt God's word. it's a real short book sent first for free then sold to all us whores of babble on. lol. You all should check it out. it will only take a minute of two to read but may stick in your head forever. It's called Temporary insanity call in the calvary. The word of God is in it, i believe.

 

[Penelope]

Are you fucking stupid? you can't be an Athiest and a Jew you fucking retard!

I guess that depends on who you ask: But that is a jewish thing isn't it, they make it up as they go.

Jewish secularism - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Throughout modern history, Jewish thinkers have challenged traditional Judaism. As early as the nineteenth century, members of the Society for the Culture and Science of the Jews (Verein fur Kultur und Wissenschaft der Juden) viewed Judaism as a culture, not a religion. These secularists, building on foundations of the Enlightenment, Haskalah, were keen to integrate humanistic culture and education with a Jewish culture not linked to rabbinical dictates, or the existence of a personal God.


State of Israel[edit]
The creation of the State of Israel in 1948 is often seen as secular Judaism’s greatest achievement, with Hebrew as a spoken language rather than a language of prayer, and the majority of the population living secular Jewish lives. Some 2000 secular Israeli schools exist, where children study Jewish history and literature and celebrate the holidays without prayer or religion.

 

[irosie91]

The key to understanding those lines is WHO WROTE THEM AND WHEN. and---of course to understand the
style and symbolism

everytime AMOS writes ----"the lord saith....." does not
indicate that he is trying to claim he had a conversation with
"the lord"

One thing has nothing whatever to do with the other. Even if Jesus was raised observant in the Pharisaic traditions as is indicated by the stories of his youth and in some of his teachings, "Do what they say but do not do what they do for they say one thing yet do another", all of the available evidence clearly shows that Jesus rejected their traditions and practices as an adult and that the Pharisees clearly rejected Jesus and his teachings as either demonic, the sorcery of a sinner and false prophet, or the pathetic hubris of a drunken lunatic .

It wasn't until I was studying Judaism while living among the Hasidic community of Borough Park was my mind opened to understand the problem Jesus had with the Pharisees and their teachings and obsessions over what to wear and what to make for dinner or what not to do on the Sabbath..

Looking back, I'm sure it can't be that difficult for you to now see......

I do not agree----I read the book-----I found nothing that could credibly be attributed to Jesus that was not entirely
in the manner of the PHARISEES ---nor did I find anything that could reasonably be considered credible that suggested that PHARISEES-----rejected Jesus. If you ask me to believe that SUDDENLY-----jews---at a crucifixtion en masse----chanted "Crucify him Crucify him"----so the poor innocent PONTIUS PILATE crucified
jesus out of FEAR OF THE JOOOS----I will give up
the conversation having determined that you are ------probably --- a bit sick. You lived in Crown Heights amongst the LUBAVITCH---? how nice-----what street?
You studied? what?

 

[irosie91]

Are you fucking stupid? you can't be an Athiest and a Jew you fucking retard!

I guess that depends on who you ask: But that is a jewish thing isn't it, they make it up as they go.

Jewish secularism - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Throughout modern history, Jewish thinkers have challenged traditional Judaism. As early as the nineteenth century, members of the Society for the Culture and Science of the Jews (Verein fur Kultur und Wissenschaft der Juden) viewed Judaism as a culture, not a religion. These secularists, building on foundations of the Enlightenment, Haskalah, were keen to integrate humanistic culture and education with a Jewish culture not linked to rabbinical dictates, or the existence of a personal God.


State of Israel[edit]
The creation of the State of Israel in 1948 is often seen as secular Judaism’s greatest achievement, with Hebrew as a spoken language rather than a language of prayer, and the majority of the population living secular Jewish lives. Some 2000 secular Israeli schools exist, where children study Jewish history and literature and celebrate the holidays without prayer or religion.

what is it you think you posted that is of any import ???
You seem to continue to equate the word "secular" with
atheist