Economics 101

[JakeStarkey]

Don't knock Vulcans.

 

[Rshermr]

Don't knock Vulcans.

I would never knock Vulcans. The major difference between Vulcans and Libertarians is that Vulcans know they are involved in fantasy.

 

[P@triot]

A libertarian simply can't comprehend economics, so there is no need to explain it to you, gipped.

Libertarians must first come to grips with the hard fact that there is and has never been a successful Libertarian country, economically or socially. Which, of course, makes it impossible to have an actual conversation. It is a whole lot like simply making up an economic policy, from whole cloth, and arguing it based on theory only. Kind of like Ayn Rand, actually.
Or, you could simply say you are a Vulcan, and believe in Star Wars society.

Now that is hilarious (in the "that was the most ignorant thing ever said" kind of way). When the U.S. declared independence in 1776, it was the ultimate "libertarian society". There was no government at all and the Constitution wouldn't be drafted for 11 more years or ratified for another 15 years. There were no minimum wage laws. No unions. No occupational health regulations. I mean, there was nothing. And all that pure libertarian society did was create the greatest super-power the universe has ever seen.

After it was built, Dumbocrats decided they wanted to take it over and implement Keynesian and Marxism because they sounded so good. All that has resulted in is America becoming a staggering $19 trillion in debt (worst in the world), education levels plummeting, freedoms plummeting, record number of food stamps, etc.

The truth is - there has never been a successful socialist country. Ever. It has a 100% failure rate. Sadly, because of man's desire for power and control over others (as you demonstrate every day), only one nation ever attempted a libertarian society. It was the result of modest men who didn't desire power but rather, desired freedom. Men like George Washington. Thomas Jefferson. James Madison. Benjamin Franklin. And it was the greatest success story ever known. It has a success rate of 100% (because nothing is more motivating or empowering than freedom).

Thanks for playing junior. Truly. But your incredible display of ignorance here completely disqualifies you for credibility moving forward. You might want to create a new fake account and try again or move on to another board.

 

[P@triot]

Don't knock Vulcans.

I would never knock Vulcans. The major difference between Vulcans and Libertarians is that Vulcans know they are involved in fantasy.

The major difference between Vulcans and Liberals is that despite being fantasy, even Vulcans put more effort into providing for themselves and being independent.

 

[Rshermr]

A libertarian simply can't comprehend economics, so there is no need to explain it to you, gipped.

Libertarians must first come to grips with the hard fact that there is and has never been a successful Libertarian country, economically or socially. Which, of course, makes it impossible to have an actual conversation. It is a whole lot like simply making up an economic policy, from whole cloth, and arguing it based on theory only. Kind of like Ayn Rand, actually.
Or, you could simply say you are a Vulcan, and believe in Star Wars society.

Now that is hilarious (in the "that was the most ignorant thing ever said" kind of way). When the U.S. declared independence in 1776, it was the ultimate "libertarian society". There was no government at all and the Constitution wouldn't be drafted for 11 more years or ratified for another 15 years. There were no minimum wage laws. No unions. No occupational health regulations. I mean, there was nothing. And all that pure libertarian society did was create the greatest super-power the universe has ever seen.

After it was built, Dumbocrats decided they wanted to take it over and implement Keynesian and Marxism because they sounded so good. All that has resulted in is America becoming a staggering $19 trillion in debt (worst in the world), education levels plummeting, freedoms plummeting, record number of food stamps, etc.

The truth is - there has never been a successful socialist country. Ever. It has a 100% failure rate. Sadly, because of man's desire for power and control over others (as you demonstrate every day), only one nation ever attempted a libertarian society. It was the result of modest men who didn't desire power but rather, desired freedom. Men like George Washington. Thomas Jefferson. James Madison. Benjamin Franklin. And it was the greatest success story ever known. It has a success rate of 100% (because nothing is more motivating or empowering than freedom).

Thanks for playing junior. Truly. But your incredible display of ignorance here completely disqualifies you for credibility moving forward. You might want to create a new fake account and try again or move on to another board.

Wow. That was an interesting view of economic history. Perhaps you have some links?
For instance, did you know that our founding fathers did not trust corporations?

1. “If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.”
— Thomas Jefferson, 1802 letter to Secretary of State Albert Gallatin.

2. “I hope that we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.”
— Thomas Jefferson.

Did you know that our founding fathers believed in liberalism:

“As Mankind becomes more liberal, they will be more apt to allow that all those who conduct themselves as worthy members of the community are equally entitled to the protections of civil government. I hope ever to see America among the foremost nations of justice and liberality.” — George Washington

Did you know that our founding fathers believed in taxes:

“As Mankind becomes more liberal, they will be more apt to allow that all those who conduct themselves as worthy members of the community are equally entitled to the protections of civil government. I hope ever to see America among the foremost nations of justice and liberality.” — George Washington

let me know if you need more education.

 

[Rshermr]

Don't knock Vulcans.

I would never knock Vulcans. The major difference between Vulcans and Libertarians is that Vulcans know they are involved in fantasy.

The major difference between Vulcans and Liberals is that despite being fantasy, even Vulcans put more effort into providing for themselves and being independent.

I said libertarian. You sound confused.

 

[Tehon]

A libertarian simply can't comprehend economics, so there is no need to explain it to you, gipped.

Libertarians must first come to grips with the hard fact that there is and has never been a successful Libertarian country, economically or socially. Which, of course, makes it impossible to have an actual conversation. It is a whole lot like simply making up an economic policy, from whole cloth, and arguing it based on theory only. Kind of like Ayn Rand, actually.
Or, you could simply say you are a Vulcan, and believe in Star Wars society.

Now that is hilarious (in the "that was the most ignorant thing ever said" kind of way). When the U.S. declared independence in 1776, it was the ultimate "libertarian society". There was no government at all and the Constitution wouldn't be drafted for 11 more years or ratified for another 15 years. There were no minimum wage laws. No unions. No occupational health regulations. I mean, there was nothing. And all that pure libertarian society did was create the greatest super-power the universe has ever seen.

After it was built, Dumbocrats decided they wanted to take it over and implement Keynesian and Marxism because they sounded so good. All that has resulted in is America becoming a staggering $19 trillion in debt (worst in the world), education levels plummeting, freedoms plummeting, record number of food stamps, etc.

The truth is - there has never been a successful socialist country. Ever. It has a 100% failure rate. Sadly, because of man's desire for power and control over others (as you demonstrate every day), only one nation ever attempted a libertarian society. It was the result of modest men who didn't desire power but rather, desired freedom. Men like George Washington. Thomas Jefferson. James Madison. Benjamin Franklin. And it was the greatest success story ever known. It has a success rate of 100% (because nothing is more motivating or empowering than freedom).

Thanks for playing junior. Truly. But your incredible display of ignorance here completely disqualifies you for credibility moving forward. You might want to create a new fake account and try again or move on to another board.

And all that pure libertarian society did was create the greatest super-power the universe has ever seen.

All that libertarian society did was cause fears of economic instability which led directly to our centralized form of government.

 

[P@triot]

For instance, did you know that our founding fathers did not trust corporations?

1. “If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.”
— Thomas Jefferson, 1802 letter to Secretary of State Albert Gallatin.

Yeah genius....they were true libertarians. It was liberals like Woodrow Wilson and FDR that usurped the Constitution and turned everything into centralized planning and control - including banking.

That's twice now that your own words proved your own position wrong. Would you like to go for a third???

 

[P@triot]

A libertarian simply can't comprehend economics, so there is no need to explain it to you, gipped.

Libertarians must first come to grips with the hard fact that there is and has never been a successful Libertarian country, economically or socially. Which, of course, makes it impossible to have an actual conversation. It is a whole lot like simply making up an economic policy, from whole cloth, and arguing it based on theory only. Kind of like Ayn Rand, actually.
Or, you could simply say you are a Vulcan, and believe in Star Wars society.

Now that is hilarious (in the "that was the most ignorant thing ever said" kind of way). When the U.S. declared independence in 1776, it was the ultimate "libertarian society". There was no government at all and the Constitution wouldn't be drafted for 11 more years or ratified for another 15 years. There were no minimum wage laws. No unions. No occupational health regulations. I mean, there was nothing. And all that pure libertarian society did was create the greatest super-power the universe has ever seen.

After it was built, Dumbocrats decided they wanted to take it over and implement Keynesian and Marxism because they sounded so good. All that has resulted in is America becoming a staggering $19 trillion in debt (worst in the world), education levels plummeting, freedoms plummeting, record number of food stamps, etc.

The truth is - there has never been a successful socialist country. Ever. It has a 100% failure rate. Sadly, because of man's desire for power and control over others (as you demonstrate every day), only one nation ever attempted a libertarian society. It was the result of modest men who didn't desire power but rather, desired freedom. Men like George Washington. Thomas Jefferson. James Madison. Benjamin Franklin. And it was the greatest success story ever known. It has a success rate of 100% (because nothing is more motivating or empowering than freedom).

Thanks for playing junior. Truly. But your incredible display of ignorance here completely disqualifies you for credibility moving forward. You might want to create a new fake account and try again or move on to another board.

And all that pure libertarian society did was create the greatest super-power the universe has ever seen.

All that libertarian society did was cause fears of economic instability which led directly to our centralized form of government.

Which lead to $19 trillion in debt, 48 million on food stamps, 96 million out of the labor force, and a significant loss of freedoms which leads to a significant loss of innovation:

“Liberty … is the great parent of science and of virtue; and … a nation will be great in both, always in proportion as it is free.” – Thomas Jefferson (March 24, 1789)

 

[P@triot]

Did you know that our founding fathers believed in liberalism:

“As Mankind becomes more liberal, they will be more apt to allow that all those who conduct themselves as worthy members of the community are equally entitled to the protections of civil government. I hope ever to see America among the foremost nations of justice and liberality.” — George Washington

Did you know that you are misconstruing what George Washington said? Notice he doesn't mention anything about money, benefits, healthcare, etc.? Notice everything said was about justice and liberty - or everything you and your ideology stands against?

It's because your idea of "liberal" is the modern day meaning - greedy socialists more interested in handouts than freedom and liberty. George Washington was the exact opposite - willing to trade every penny he ever knew for freedom and liberty.

"... the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor." - Thomas Jefferson and our founders 1776

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

A libertarian simply can't comprehend economics, so there is no need to explain it to you, gipped.

Libertarians must first come to grips with the hard fact that there is and has never been a successful Libertarian country, economically or socially. Which, of course, makes it impossible to have an actual conversation. It is a whole lot like simply making up an economic policy, from whole cloth, and arguing it based on theory only. Kind of like Ayn Rand, actually.
Or, you could simply say you are a Vulcan, and believe in Star Wars society.

Now that is hilarious (in the "that was the most ignorant thing ever said" kind of way). When the U.S. declared independence in 1776, it was the ultimate "libertarian society". There was no government at all and the Constitution wouldn't be drafted for 11 more years or ratified for another 15 years. There were no minimum wage laws. No unions. No occupational health regulations. I mean, there was nothing. And all that pure libertarian society did was create the greatest super-power the universe has ever seen.

After it was built, Dumbocrats decided they wanted to take it over and implement Keynesian and Marxism because they sounded so good. All that has resulted in is America becoming a staggering $19 trillion in debt (worst in the world), education levels plummeting, freedoms plummeting, record number of food stamps, etc.

The truth is - there has never been a successful socialist country. Ever. It has a 100% failure rate. Sadly, because of man's desire for power and control over others (as you demonstrate every day), only one nation ever attempted a libertarian society. It was the result of modest men who didn't desire power but rather, desired freedom. Men like George Washington. Thomas Jefferson. James Madison. Benjamin Franklin. And it was the greatest success story ever known. It has a success rate of 100% (because nothing is more motivating or empowering than freedom).

Thanks for playing junior. Truly. But your incredible display of ignorance here completely disqualifies you for credibility moving forward. You might want to create a new fake account and try again or move on to another board.

Wow. That was an interesting view of economic history. Perhaps you have some links?
For instance, did you know that our founding fathers did not trust corporations?

1. “If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.”
— Thomas Jefferson, 1802 letter to Secretary of State Albert Gallatin.

2. “I hope that we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.”
— Thomas Jefferson.

Did you know that our founding fathers believed in liberalism:

“As Mankind becomes more liberal, they will be more apt to allow that all those who conduct themselves as worthy members of the community are equally entitled to the protections of civil government. I hope ever to see America among the foremost nations of justice and liberality.” — George Washington

Did you know that our founding fathers believed in taxes:

“As Mankind becomes more liberal, they will be more apt to allow that all those who conduct themselves as worthy members of the community are equally entitled to the protections of civil government. I hope ever to see America among the foremost nations of justice and liberality.” — George Washington

let me know if you need more education.

“If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.”

Love that fake quote!

 

[P@triot]

For instance, did you know that our founding fathers did not trust corporations?

1. “If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.”
— Thomas Jefferson, 1802 letter to Secretary of State Albert Gallatin.

let me know if you need more education.

So let me get this straight - the moron who is too lazy to fact check liberal propaganda posts a fake quote and wants to know if I need more education?!! Um...you might want to take a look at this junior:

The first part of the quotation ("If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered") has not been found anywhere in Thomas Jefferson's writings, to Albert Gallatin or otherwise. It is identified in Respectfully Quoted as spurious, and the editor further points out that the words "inflation" and "deflation" are not documented until after Jefferson's lifetime

Private Banks (Quotation) | Thomas Jefferson's Monticello

Let me know if you need more education junior (you clearly do)

 

[Tehon]

A libertarian simply can't comprehend economics, so there is no need to explain it to you, gipped.

Libertarians must first come to grips with the hard fact that there is and has never been a successful Libertarian country, economically or socially. Which, of course, makes it impossible to have an actual conversation. It is a whole lot like simply making up an economic policy, from whole cloth, and arguing it based on theory only. Kind of like Ayn Rand, actually.
Or, you could simply say you are a Vulcan, and believe in Star Wars society.

Now that is hilarious (in the "that was the most ignorant thing ever said" kind of way). When the U.S. declared independence in 1776, it was the ultimate "libertarian society". There was no government at all and the Constitution wouldn't be drafted for 11 more years or ratified for another 15 years. There were no minimum wage laws. No unions. No occupational health regulations. I mean, there was nothing. And all that pure libertarian society did was create the greatest super-power the universe has ever seen.

After it was built, Dumbocrats decided they wanted to take it over and implement Keynesian and Marxism because they sounded so good. All that has resulted in is America becoming a staggering $19 trillion in debt (worst in the world), education levels plummeting, freedoms plummeting, record number of food stamps, etc.

The truth is - there has never been a successful socialist country. Ever. It has a 100% failure rate. Sadly, because of man's desire for power and control over others (as you demonstrate every day), only one nation ever attempted a libertarian society. It was the result of modest men who didn't desire power but rather, desired freedom. Men like George Washington. Thomas Jefferson. James Madison. Benjamin Franklin. And it was the greatest success story ever known. It has a success rate of 100% (because nothing is more motivating or empowering than freedom).

Thanks for playing junior. Truly. But your incredible display of ignorance here completely disqualifies you for credibility moving forward. You might want to create a new fake account and try again or move on to another board.

And all that pure libertarian society did was create the greatest super-power the universe has ever seen.

All that libertarian society did was cause fears of economic instability which led directly to our centralized form of government.

Which lead to $19 trillion in debt, 48 million on food stamps, 96 million out of the labor force, and a significant loss of freedoms which leads to a significant loss of innovation:

“Liberty … is the great parent of science and of virtue; and … a nation will be great in both, always in proportion as it is free.” – Thomas Jefferson (March 24, 1789)

Thomas Jefferson also more famously wrote "that to secure these rights ( Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness), Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed"

Government is not the problem, it is necessary, our inability to maintain our government is the problem.

 

[P@triot]

A libertarian simply can't comprehend economics, so there is no need to explain it to you, gipped.

Libertarians must first come to grips with the hard fact that there is and has never been a successful Libertarian country, economically or socially. Which, of course, makes it impossible to have an actual conversation. It is a whole lot like simply making up an economic policy, from whole cloth, and arguing it based on theory only. Kind of like Ayn Rand, actually.
Or, you could simply say you are a Vulcan, and believe in Star Wars society.

Now that is hilarious (in the "that was the most ignorant thing ever said" kind of way). When the U.S. declared independence in 1776, it was the ultimate "libertarian society". There was no government at all and the Constitution wouldn't be drafted for 11 more years or ratified for another 15 years. There were no minimum wage laws. No unions. No occupational health regulations. I mean, there was nothing. And all that pure libertarian society did was create the greatest super-power the universe has ever seen.

After it was built, Dumbocrats decided they wanted to take it over and implement Keynesian and Marxism because they sounded so good. All that has resulted in is America becoming a staggering $19 trillion in debt (worst in the world), education levels plummeting, freedoms plummeting, record number of food stamps, etc.

The truth is - there has never been a successful socialist country. Ever. It has a 100% failure rate. Sadly, because of man's desire for power and control over others (as you demonstrate every day), only one nation ever attempted a libertarian society. It was the result of modest men who didn't desire power but rather, desired freedom. Men like George Washington. Thomas Jefferson. James Madison. Benjamin Franklin. And it was the greatest success story ever known. It has a success rate of 100% (because nothing is more motivating or empowering than freedom).

Thanks for playing junior. Truly. But your incredible display of ignorance here completely disqualifies you for credibility moving forward. You might want to create a new fake account and try again or move on to another board.

And all that pure libertarian society did was create the greatest super-power the universe has ever seen.

All that libertarian society did was cause fears of economic instability which led directly to our centralized form of government.

Which lead to $19 trillion in debt, 48 million on food stamps, 96 million out of the labor force, and a significant loss of freedoms which leads to a significant loss of innovation:

“Liberty … is the great parent of science and of virtue; and … a nation will be great in both, always in proportion as it is free.” – Thomas Jefferson (March 24, 1789)

Thomas Jefferson also more famously wrote "that to secure these rights ( Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness), Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed"

Government is not the problem, it is necessary, our inability to maintain our government is the problem.

So that raises a great question. Why did these men - who just escaped oppression - institute any government at all? Why not just live without government? Each man completely free to do whatever they wanted? Why even risk granting any institution power? Do you know?

 

[Tehon]

Libertarians must first come to grips with the hard fact that there is and has never been a successful Libertarian country, economically or socially. Which, of course, makes it impossible to have an actual conversation. It is a whole lot like simply making up an economic policy, from whole cloth, and arguing it based on theory only. Kind of like Ayn Rand, actually.
Or, you could simply say you are a Vulcan, and believe in Star Wars society.

Now that is hilarious (in the "that was the most ignorant thing ever said" kind of way). When the U.S. declared independence in 1776, it was the ultimate "libertarian society". There was no government at all and the Constitution wouldn't be drafted for 11 more years or ratified for another 15 years. There were no minimum wage laws. No unions. No occupational health regulations. I mean, there was nothing. And all that pure libertarian society did was create the greatest super-power the universe has ever seen.

After it was built, Dumbocrats decided they wanted to take it over and implement Keynesian and Marxism because they sounded so good. All that has resulted in is America becoming a staggering $19 trillion in debt (worst in the world), education levels plummeting, freedoms plummeting, record number of food stamps, etc.

The truth is - there has never been a successful socialist country. Ever. It has a 100% failure rate. Sadly, because of man's desire for power and control over others (as you demonstrate every day), only one nation ever attempted a libertarian society. It was the result of modest men who didn't desire power but rather, desired freedom. Men like George Washington. Thomas Jefferson. James Madison. Benjamin Franklin. And it was the greatest success story ever known. It has a success rate of 100% (because nothing is more motivating or empowering than freedom).

Thanks for playing junior. Truly. But your incredible display of ignorance here completely disqualifies you for credibility moving forward. You might want to create a new fake account and try again or move on to another board.

And all that pure libertarian society did was create the greatest super-power the universe has ever seen.

All that libertarian society did was cause fears of economic instability which led directly to our centralized form of government.

Which lead to $19 trillion in debt, 48 million on food stamps, 96 million out of the labor force, and a significant loss of freedoms which leads to a significant loss of innovation:

“Liberty … is the great parent of science and of virtue; and … a nation will be great in both, always in proportion as it is free.” – Thomas Jefferson (March 24, 1789)

Thomas Jefferson also more famously wrote "that to secure these rights ( Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness), Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed"

Government is not the problem, it is necessary, our inability to maintain our government is the problem.

So that raises a great question. Why did these men - who just escaped oppression - institute any government at all? Why not just live without government? Each man completely free to do whatever they wanted? Why even risk granting any institution power? Do you know?

They thought government was necessary to securing liberty. It's in the Declaration of Independence. I quoted it above.

He also stated as much in a letter to Madison.

Societies exist under three forms, sufficiently distinguishable: (1) without government, as among our Indians; (2) under governments, wherein the will of everyone has a just influence, as is the case in England, in a slight degree, and in our states, in a great one; (3) under governments of force, as is the case in all other monarchies, and in most of the other republics.

To have an idea of the curse of existence under these last, they must be seen. It is a government of wolves over sheep. It is a problem, not clear in my mind, that the first condition is not the best. But I believe it to be inconsistent with any great degree of population. The second state has a great deal of good in it. The mass of mankind under that enjoys a precious degree of liberty and happiness. It has its evils, too, the principal of which is the turbulence to which it is subject. But weigh this against the oppressions of monarchy, and it becomes nothing. Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietam servitutem. Even this evil is productive of good. It prevents the degeneracy of government and nourishes a general attention to the public affairs.
Jefferson Letter to Madison - Archiving Early America

 

[P@triot]

They thought government was necessary to securing liberty

I'm impressed! Most people fail that question. But to be very specific, it wasn't so much "liberty" (as they have more of that without government) - it was to secure our rights.

That is the only purpose of government. Anybody who says anything else (including Abraham Lincoln who made one of the worst comments ever regarding government) is dead wrong. Government does not exist to help the poor. To feed the masses. To create safety nets.

All of that is 100% illegal under our Constitution and our government was not designed to fulfill those roles. Government exists simply to secure our rights. We need to return to that and leave everything else up to the people.

 

[Tehon]

They thought government was necessary to securing liberty

I'm impressed! Most people fail that question. But to be very specific, it wasn't so much "liberty" (as they have more of that without government) - it was to secure our rights.

That is the only purpose of government. Anybody who says anything else (including Abraham Lincoln who made one of the worst comments ever regarding government) is dead wrong. Government does not exist to help the poor. To feed the masses. To create safety nets.

All of that is 100% illegal under our Constitution and our government was not designed to fulfill those roles. Government exists simply to secure our rights. We need to return to that and leave everything else up to the people.

The supreme court says otherwise.
United States v. Butler 297 U.S. 1 (1936)

13. In Article I, § 8, cl. 1 of the Constitution, which provides that Congress shall have power

"to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defence and general welfare of the United States,"

the phrase "to provide for the general welfare" is not an independent provision empowering Congress generally to provide for the general welfare, but is a qualification defining and limiting the power "to lay and collect taxes," etc. P. 297 U. S. 64.

14. The power to appropriate money from the Treasury (Constitution, Art. I, § 9, cl. 7) is as broad as the power to tax, and the power to lay taxes to provide for the general welfare of the United States implies the power to appropriate public funds for that purpose. P. 297 U. S. 65.

15. The power to tax and spend is a separate and distinct power; its exercise is not confined to the fields committed to Congress by the other enumerated grants of power, but it is limited by the requirement that it shall be exercised to provide for the general welfare of the United States. P. 297 U. S. 65.

 

[P@triot]

They thought government was necessary to securing liberty

I'm impressed! Most people fail that question. But to be very specific, it wasn't so much "liberty" (as they have more of that without government) - it was to secure our rights.

That is the only purpose of government. Anybody who says anything else (including Abraham Lincoln who made one of the worst comments ever regarding government) is dead wrong. Government does not exist to help the poor. To feed the masses. To create safety nets.

All of that is 100% illegal under our Constitution and our government was not designed to fulfill those roles. Government exists simply to secure our rights. We need to return to that and leave everything else up to the people.

The supreme court says otherwise.
United States v. Butler 297 U.S. 1 (1936)

13. In Article I, § 8, cl. 1 of the Constitution, which provides that Congress shall have power

"to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defence and general welfare of the United States,"

the phrase "to provide for the general welfare" is not an independent provision empowering Congress generally to provide for the general welfare, but is a qualification defining and limiting the power "to lay and collect taxes," etc. P. 297 U. S. 64.

14. The power to appropriate money from the Treasury (Constitution, Art. I, § 9, cl. 7) is as broad as the power to tax, and the power to lay taxes to provide for the general welfare of the United States implies the power to appropriate public funds for that purpose. P. 297 U. S. 65.

15. The power to tax and spend is a separate and distinct power; its exercise is not confined to the fields committed to Congress by the other enumerated grants of power, but it is limited by the requirement that it shall be exercised to provide for the general welfare of the United States. P. 297 U. S. 65.

The Supreme Court is simply not empowered to say "otherwise". They are the judicial branch and only the legislative branch can create law. Furthermore, no where in the U.S. Constitution does it grant the Supreme Court the power to "interpret" the Constitution itself. Period. Can't be disputed.

And citing the times they violated the law is sort of nonsensical. It would be like me raping and murdering woman, and then giving the dates and names of all of Ted Bundy's victims as "proof" that I was allowed to rape and murder women. The Supreme Court was not a "supreme court" in 1936. By that point it has been perverted into political activists looking to rubber stamp the agenda of which ever party appointed them to the court. The U.S. Constitution is crystal clear and does not require a liberal political activist to explain what it says.

 

[Tehon]

They thought government was necessary to securing liberty

I'm impressed! Most people fail that question. But to be very specific, it wasn't so much "liberty" (as they have more of that without government) - it was to secure our rights.

That is the only purpose of government. Anybody who says anything else (including Abraham Lincoln who made one of the worst comments ever regarding government) is dead wrong. Government does not exist to help the poor. To feed the masses. To create safety nets.

All of that is 100% illegal under our Constitution and our government was not designed to fulfill those roles. Government exists simply to secure our rights. We need to return to that and leave everything else up to the people.

The supreme court says otherwise.
United States v. Butler 297 U.S. 1 (1936)

13. In Article I, § 8, cl. 1 of the Constitution, which provides that Congress shall have power

"to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defence and general welfare of the United States,"

the phrase "to provide for the general welfare" is not an independent provision empowering Congress generally to provide for the general welfare, but is a qualification defining and limiting the power "to lay and collect taxes," etc. P. 297 U. S. 64.

14. The power to appropriate money from the Treasury (Constitution, Art. I, § 9, cl. 7) is as broad as the power to tax, and the power to lay taxes to provide for the general welfare of the United States implies the power to appropriate public funds for that purpose. P. 297 U. S. 65.

15. The power to tax and spend is a separate and distinct power; its exercise is not confined to the fields committed to Congress by the other enumerated grants of power, but it is limited by the requirement that it shall be exercised to provide for the general welfare of the United States. P. 297 U. S. 65.

The Supreme Court is simply not empowered to say "otherwise". They are the judicial branch and only the legislative branch can create law. Furthermore, no where in the U.S. Constitution does it grant the Supreme Court the power to "interpret" the Constitution itself. Period. Can't be disputed.

And citing the times they violated the law is sort of nonsensical. It would be like me raping and murdering woman, and then giving the dates and names of all of Ted Bundy's victims as "proof" that I was allowed to rape and murder women. The Supreme Court was not a "supreme court" in 1936. By that point it has been perverted into political activists looking to rubber stamp the agenda of which ever party appointed them to the court. The U.S. Constitution is crystal clear and does not require a liberal political activist to explain what it says.

You win some you lose some I guess. The power of judicial review has been inferred upon the court. And the court has ruled time and again that congress can spend for the general welfare. Don't give up the fight though.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

. And the court has ruled time and again that congress can spend for the general welfare. Don't give up the fight though.

And no where have the liberals spent more for the general welfare than in the black community. The sweet, sensitive, caring general welfare spending has amounted to a near genocide. Liberals should be so proud! Spike Lee just made a movie called Chi-Raq (or something). What he said was you are safer in Iraq than Chicago after the liberals have bombed Chicago with the general welfare spending.