Einstein of climate

[Robert W]

Climate is average ... if that's not your intent, then you're talking about weather ... not climate ... why I posted the average wind map ... to show that, on average, all parts of the atmosphere below 180 mb is moving ... and convecting energy ...

Energy flow is what people get wrong ... and a non-trivial amount of energy is used to evaporate water ... humidity ... what we don't know yet is how much energy ... both evaporation and precipitation occur without a change in temperature ... put a thermometer in a boiling pot of water ... see, fire underneath and no change in temperature ... just steam evolving off the top ...

Climate is longer time weather. It is still weather. I think you criticized this in bad faith. Steam is not climate.

 

[ReinyDays]

Climate is longer time weather. It is still weather. I think you criticized this in bad faith. Steam is not climate.

Climate and weather are exactly the same ... except weather uses dt and climate uses ∆t ... where ∆t >= 100 years ... I understand this is physics, and not mathematics, but the math is succinct ...

dt is why a full year of college calculus is required before we're allowed to take meteorology ... and an second full year of college calculus before climatology ... and a full year of college statistics ...

The word "change" is well defined in science ... the mathy term is "first derivative" ... and if I may be "indiscreet" F = m dv/dt ... ha ha get it ... indiscreet ... math joke there ...

 

[Robert W]

That's quite funny coming from someone rejecting the conclusions of thousands of scientists to buy into the opinions of one.

At some point you converted from a curious person to a devoted to the worst of all predictions for humans. Wish I knew why given you are an engineer.

 

[Robert W]

Climate and weather are exactly the same ... except weather uses dt and climate uses ∆t ... where ∆t >= 100 years ... I understand this is physics, and not mathematics, but the math is succinct ...

dt is why a full year of college calculus is required before we're allowed to take meteorology ... and an second full year of college calculus before climatology ... and a full year of college statistics ...

The word "change" is well defined in science ... the mathy term is "first derivative" ... and if I may be "indiscreet" F = m dv/dt ... ha ha get it ... indiscreet ... math joke there ...

That is accurate.

 

[Crick]

That is accurate.

It is not. Reiny's attempts to show off his calculs and meteorology skill fails. Observing a climate change does not require watching for 100 years or more and dt may be used with either one if you happen to be looking for instantaneous rates.

At some point you converted from a curious person to a devoted to the worst of all predictions for humans. Wish I knew why given you are an engineer.

That is accept the conclusions of better than 95% of the world's climate scientists and reject the conclusion of someone who opposes them? On a thousand other topics, Robert, you are guilty of the EXACT same choices.

 

[Robert W]

That is accept the conclusions of better than 95% of the world's climate scientists and reject the conclusion of someone who opposes them? On a thousand other topics, Robert, you are guilty of the EXACT same choices.

How do you know that better than 95% have such conclusions?
Especially since some expert climatologists say that is not true?
If someone told you a foot is a meter would you believe them if they told you 95 percent claim this is the case?

 

[Crick]

How do you know that better than 95% have such conclusions?
Especially since some expert climatologists say that is not true?
If someone told you a foot is a meter would you believe them if they told you 95 percent claim this is the case?

From Scientific consensus on climate change - Wikipedia

Scientific consensus on climate change​

There is a nearly unanimous scientific consensus that the Earth has been consistently warming since the start of the Industrial Revolution, that the rate of recent warming is largely unprecedented,[1]: 8 [2]: 11  and that this warming is mainly the result of a rapid increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2) caused by human activities. The human activities causing this warming include fossil fuel combustion, cement production, and land use changes such as deforestation,[3]: 10–11  with a significant supporting role from the other greenhouse gases such as methane and nitrous oxide.[1]: 7  This human role in climate change is considered "unequivocal" and "incontrovertible".[1]: 4 [2]: 4 

Nearly all actively publishing climate scientists say humans are causing climate change.[4][5] Surveys of the scientific literature are another way to measure scientific consensus. A 2019 review of scientific papers found the consensus on the cause of climate change to be at 100%,[6] and a 2021 study concluded that over 99% of scientific papers agree on the human cause of climate change.[7] The small percentage of papers that disagreed with the consensus often contain errors or cannot be replicated.[8]

The evidence for global warming due to human influence has been recognized by the national science academies of all the major industrialized countries.[9] In the scientific literature, there is a very strong consensus that global surface temperatures have increased in recent decades and that the trend is caused by human-induced emissions of greenhouse gases.[10] No scientific body of national or international standing disagrees with this view.[11] A few organizations with members in extractive industries hold non-committal positions,[12] and some have tried to persuade the public that climate change is not happening, or if the climate is changing it is not because of human influence,[13][14] attempting to sow doubt in the scientific consensus.[15]

Existence of a scientific consensus​

The public substantially underestimates the degree of scientific consensus that humans are causing climate change.[16] Studies from 2019 to 2021[17][18][19] found scientific consensus to range from 98.7–100%.
Studies of the scientific opinion on climate change have been undertaken since the 1970s,[20] and they have been establishing widespread consensus since the 1990s,[21][22] with the level of agreement increasing over time.[23] Individual scientists, universities, and laboratories contribute to the scientific opinion on climate change via their peer-reviewed publications, while the scientific bodies of national or international standing summarise the areas of collective agreement and relative certainty in synthesis reports.[24]

Examples of such reports include or the 2004 Arctic Climate Impact Assessment from the International Arctic Science Committee and the governments of the Arctic Council,[25][26] or the United States' National Climate Assessment, which has been released periodically since 2000 under the auspices of the United States Global Change Research Program. The fourth NCA, released in 2017, involved the efforts of thirteen federal agencies, led by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA),[27] and around "1,000 people, including 300 leading scientists, roughly half from outside the government."[28]

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) had been formed by the United Nations in 1988,[29][30] and it presents reports summarizing the strength and extent of consensus on climate change and its numerous aspects to the member states of the United Nations, with the major reports released at 5-to-7-year intervals starting from 1990.[31]

Between 1990 and 2023, the IPCC has published six comprehensive assessment reports reviewing the latest climate science. The IPCC has also produced 14 special reports on particular topics.[32] Each assessment report has four parts. These are a contribution from each of the three working groups, plus a synthesis report. The synthesis report integrates the working group contributions. It also integrates any special reports produced in that assessment cycle.
In 2001, science academies from 17 countries (Australia, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, China, France, Germany, India, Indonesia, Ireland, Italy, Malaysia, New Zealand, Sweden, Trinidad, Turkey and the United Kingdom made a joint statement endorsing the work of IPCC. They concurred that the temperatures are rising and will continue to rise due to human activities, and also stressed the importance of cutting greenhouse gas emissions, concluding that "Business as usual is no longer a viable option". It is also notable for being one of the first statements to explicitly use the term "consensus".[33] In 2005, another joint statement from the science academies of major countries (Brazil, Canada, China, France, Germany, India, Italy, Japan, Russia, United Kingdom and the United States referred to the conclusions of the IPCC as "the international scientific consensus", and urged prompt action on both climate change mitigation and climate change adaptation.[34] Elsewhere around the world, other organizations to have referred to the scientific consensus include Network of African Science Academies in 2007,[35] and the International Union for Quaternary Research in 2008.[36]

In 2013, a study which found that out of over 4,000 peer-reviewed papers on climate science published since 1990, 97% agree, explicitly or implicitly, that global warming is happening and is human-caused.[37][38] Surveys of scientists' views on climate change – with a focus on human caused climate change – have been undertaken since the 1970s.[20][21] A 2016 reanalysis confirmed that "the finding of 97% consensus [that humans are causing recent global warming] in published climate research is robust and consistent with other surveys of climate scientists and peer-reviewed studies."[39] A 2019 study found scientific consensus to be at 100%,[6] and a 2021 study found that consensus exceeded 99%.[7]

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This has been an excerpt. There is more in the Wikipedia article at the link provided. Here are the endnotes from that article.

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References​

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76. ^ Oreskes 2007, p. 72: "[Scientists] generally focus their discussions on questions that are still disputed or unanswered rather than on matters about which everyone agrees"
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[Robert W]

From Scientific consensus on climate change - Wikipedia

Scientific consensus on climate change​

There is a nearly unanimous scientific consensus that the Earth has been consistently warming since the start of the Industrial Revolution, that the rate of recent warming is largely unprecedented,[1]: 8 [2]: 11  and that this warming is mainly the result of a rapid increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2) caused by human activities. The human activities causing this warming include fossil fuel combustion, cement production, and land use changes such as deforestation,[3]: 10–11  with a significant supporting role from the other greenhouse gases such as methane and nitrous oxide.[1]: 7  This human role in climate change is considered "unequivocal" and "incontrovertible".[1]: 4 [2]: 4 

Nearly all actively publishing climate scientists say humans are causing climate change.[4][5] Surveys of the scientific literature are another way to measure scientific consensus. A 2019 review of scientific papers found the consensus on the cause of climate change to be at 100%,[6] and a 2021 study concluded that over 99% of scientific papers agree on the human cause of climate change.[7] The small percentage of papers that disagreed with the consensus often contain errors or cannot be replicated.[8]

The evidence for global warming due to human influence has been recognized by the national science academies of all the major industrialized countries.[9] In the scientific literature, there is a very strong consensus that global surface temperatures have increased in recent decades and that the trend is caused by human-induced emissions of greenhouse gases.[10] No scientific body of national or international standing disagrees with this view.[11] A few organizations with members in extractive industries hold non-committal positions,[12] and some have tried to persuade the public that climate change is not happening, or if the climate is changing it is not because of human influence,[13][14] attempting to sow doubt in the scientific consensus.[15]

Existence of a scientific consensus​

The public substantially underestimates the degree of scientific consensus that humans are causing climate change.[16] Studies from 2019 to 2021[17][18][19] found scientific consensus to range from 98.7–100%.
Studies of the scientific opinion on climate change have been undertaken since the 1970s,[20] and they have been establishing widespread consensus since the 1990s,[21][22] with the level of agreement increasing over time.[23] Individual scientists, universities, and laboratories contribute to the scientific opinion on climate change via their peer-reviewed publications, while the scientific bodies of national or international standing summarise the areas of collective agreement and relative certainty in synthesis reports.[24]

Examples of such reports include or the 2004 Arctic Climate Impact Assessment from the International Arctic Science Committee and the governments of the Arctic Council,[25][26] or the United States' National Climate Assessment, which has been released periodically since 2000 under the auspices of the United States Global Change Research Program. The fourth NCA, released in 2017, involved the efforts of thirteen federal agencies, led by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA),[27] and around "1,000 people, including 300 leading scientists, roughly half from outside the government."[28]

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) had been formed by the United Nations in 1988,[29][30] and it presents reports summarizing the strength and extent of consensus on climate change and its numerous aspects to the member states of the United Nations, with the major reports released at 5-to-7-year intervals starting from 1990.[31]

Between 1990 and 2023, the IPCC has published six comprehensive assessment reports reviewing the latest climate science. The IPCC has also produced 14 special reports on particular topics.[32] Each assessment report has four parts. These are a contribution from each of the three working groups, plus a synthesis report. The synthesis report integrates the working group contributions. It also integrates any special reports produced in that assessment cycle.
In 2001, science academies from 17 countries (Australia, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, China, France, Germany, India, Indonesia, Ireland, Italy, Malaysia, New Zealand, Sweden, Trinidad, Turkey and the United Kingdom made a joint statement endorsing the work of IPCC. They concurred that the temperatures are rising and will continue to rise due to human activities, and also stressed the importance of cutting greenhouse gas emissions, concluding that "Business as usual is no longer a viable option". It is also notable for being one of the first statements to explicitly use the term "consensus".[33] In 2005, another joint statement from the science academies of major countries (Brazil, Canada, China, France, Germany, India, Italy, Japan, Russia, United Kingdom and the United States referred to the conclusions of the IPCC as "the international scientific consensus", and urged prompt action on both climate change mitigation and climate change adaptation.[34] Elsewhere around the world, other organizations to have referred to the scientific consensus include Network of African Science Academies in 2007,[35] and the International Union for Quaternary Research in 2008.[36]

In 2013, a study which found that out of over 4,000 peer-reviewed papers on climate science published since 1990, 97% agree, explicitly or implicitly, that global warming is happening and is human-caused.[37][38] Surveys of scientists' views on climate change – with a focus on human caused climate change – have been undertaken since the 1970s.[20][21] A 2016 reanalysis confirmed that "the finding of 97% consensus [that humans are causing recent global warming] in published climate research is robust and consistent with other surveys of climate scientists and peer-reviewed studies."[39] A 2019 study found scientific consensus to be at 100%,[6] and a 2021 study found that consensus exceeded 99%.[7]

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References​

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Tell you what. You allowed Wikipedia to scare you half to death. But this has not happened to me. I listened to actual competent climate scientists and not Wikipedia.

 

[Crick]

Tell you what. You allowed Wikipedia to scare you half to death.

I am not scared half to death. Wikipedia has simply informed us that the vast majority of climate scientists believe that the Earth is warming and that the primary cause is human CO2 emissions.

But this has not happened to me.

What has not happened to you? Reading? Learning? For fuck's sake Robert, get a goddamned education.

I listened to actual competent climate scientists and not Wikipedia.

According to better than 95% (99% is what the article actually states) of the world's climate scientists, the fellow you're listening to IS NOT A COMPETENT CLIMATE SCIENTIST.

 

[Robert W]

According to better than 95% (99% is what the article actually states) of the world's climate scientists, the fellow you're listening to IS NOT A COMPETENT CLIMATE SCIENTIST.

It is not one fellow. It is a group of Climate scientists. They dispute your 95 percent figure or worse the 99 percent figure. It is fiction.

 

[Crick]

It is not one fellow. It is a group of Climate scientists. They dispute your 95 percent figure or worse the 99 percent figure. It is fiction.

Funny, that exactly what the thousands and thousands of scientists on my side of this argument say about what your handful of scientists are saying. When those studies say that 99% accept AGW, the 1% that do not are the "group of Climate scientists" to which you've been listening. And you don't need to capitalize "Climate".

There are mountains of evidence supporting the mainstream conclusion. Are you suggesting it is a fiction? Are the temperatures fiction? How about the multiple proxy reconstructions, are they fictions? Are the CO2 numbers a fiction? Is the science that says what that CO2 does with IR radiation a fiction? Are sea levels a fiction? Is the disappearing ice a fiction? Are the changing seasonal timings a fiction? Are the changes in the numbers of record highs and record lows a fiction? How about the satellites that are directly measuring incoming solar and outgoing infrared? Are those data fiction?

 

[Robert W]

Funny, that exactly what the thousands and thousands of scientists on my side of this argument say about what your handful of scientists are saying. When those studies say that 99% accept AGW, the 1% that do not are the "group of Climate scientists" to which you've been listening. And you don't need to capitalize "Climate".

There are mountains of evidence supporting the mainstream conclusion. Are you suggesting it is a fiction? Are the temperatures fiction? How about the multiple proxy reconstructions, are they fictions? Are the CO2 numbers a fiction? Is the science that says what that CO2 does with IR radiation a fiction? Are sea levels a fiction? Is the disappearing ice a fiction? Are the changing seasonal timings a fiction? Are the changes in the numbers of record highs and record lows a fiction? How about the satellites that are directly measuring incoming solar and outgoing infrared? Are those data fiction?

The temperatures are not fiction. They are insignificant. We are not in danger. We need not take action. If you design a pair of pliers, and because it is a tool, would you agree it is a screwdriver. We have beat this horse to death. Can we bury it?

 

[forkup]

Listen carefully. Please listen to him Engineer person. Talks about climate all the time here. We have more than one engineer. Both should evaluate the man I speak of Dr. Richard Lindzen. I will point out he actually understands climate. We have some who think Climate is temperature. They talk a lot about temperatures here or there. Climate has at least 6 factors. Some say more.

He hits on the factors.

Climate misinformation by source: Richard Lindzen

Examines the science and arguments of global warming skepticism. Common objections like 'global warming is caused by the sun', 'temperature has changed naturally in the past' or 'other planets are warming too' are examined to see what the science really says.

skepticalscience.com

You mean this Einstein?

 

[Crick]

The temperatures are not fiction. They are insignificant.

Thousands of climate scientists, who know this subject far, far better than you and I, say they are extremely significant.

We are not in danger.

Thousands and thousands of climate scientists, who know this subject far, far better than you and I, say we are.

We need not take action.

Thousands and thousands of climate scientists, who know this subject far, far better than you and I, say we do.

If you design a pair of pliers, and because it is a tool, would you agree it is a screwdriver. We have beat this horse to death. Can we bury it?

Why are you beating a horse to death and are you using the pliers or the screwdriver? I have no fucking idea what you're trying to say here Robert.

 

[Crick]

Listen carefully. Please listen to him Engineer person. Talks about climate all the time here. We have more than one engineer. Both should evaluate the man I speak of Dr. Richard Lindzen. I will point out he actually understands climate. We have some who think Climate is temperature. They talk a lot about temperatures here or there. Climate has at least 6 factors. Some say more.

He hits on the factors.

Einstein's work was revolutionary but after Special Relativity, no one questioned the quality of his work. Lindzen's "work" in global warming and climate science has been questioned from the get go through to this very day. Calling him an Einstein is like calling Donald Trump a great leader. The only sensible reaction is a gut-busting guffaw.

 

[Robert W]

Lindzen's "work" in global warming and climate science has been questioned from the get go through to this very day.

All climates work in global warming and climate science has been questioned from the intrusion by politicians. I have hopes very intelligent climatologists like Professor Lindzen are the keys to ending this crazy scare tactic by the left.

All this BS over a couple of degrees over 150 years is nuts.

 

[Robert W]

Climate misinformation by source: Richard Lindzen

Examines the science and arguments of global warming skepticism. Common objections like 'global warming is caused by the sun', 'temperature has changed naturally in the past' or 'other planets are warming too' are examined to see what the science really says.

skepticalscience.com

You mean this Einstein?

Yes. And he is a skeptic.

 

[Crick]

All climate [scientists?] work in global warming and climate science has been questioned from the intrusion by politicians.

I'm uncertain what you mean there. The IPCC's first and second Assessment Reports had significant influence by the governments of the sponsor nations who generally urged them to 'tone it down'. This produced loud complaints from the science community which succeeded in getting public support. The influence that political actors have these days on the products of the IPCC is very close to nil. But, since it was formed and is funded by a political association of governments to produce reports for those governments and the public at large, it was never possible for the IPCC to experience zero political pressure. However, if you wanted to avoid partisan political pressure, you'd couldn't find any venue as effectively neutral in international affairs as the UN.

I have hopes very intelligent climatologists like Professor Lindzen are the keys to ending this crazy scare tactic by the left.

Jesus, Robert, you must be their favorite mark.

All this BS over a couple of degrees over 150 years is nuts.

Does your characterization (as "BS") come from your personal experience as to the magnitude of a typical global temperature change over a century and a half? Do you have any idea what actually IS a typical change over the course of a century? I bet Dr Google will know. Their AI says:

---

AI Overview
Find information in faster & easier ways with AI Overviews in Google Search - Google Search Help
The average global temperature has increased by about 1.7°F (1°C) since 1880, which is about ten times faster than the average rate of warming during the recovery from [the ten] ice ages over the past million years. This warming trend is unprecedented in the 2,000-year record and has accelerated in recent decades. In 2023, Earth was about 2.45°F (1.36°C) warmer than the preindustrial average between 1850 and 1900.

---

---

Emphasis was mine.

The average rate of warming towards interglacial periods, prior to the onset of AGW was 0.127C degrees/century. To achieve the warming we've accomplished in the last 150 years, we'd have to start back when Arthur (yeah, that Arthur) was attacking the Saxons, Justinian died after 38 years ruling the Byzantine Empire and Pope Gregory was working on his new calendar.

---

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[Dagosa]

Listen carefully. Please listen to him Engineer person. Talks about climate all the time here. We have more than one engineer. Both should evaluate the man I speak of Dr. Richard Lindzen. I will point out he actually understands climate. We have some who think Climate is temperature. They talk a lot about temperatures here or there. Climate has at least 6 factors. Some say more.

He hits on the factors.

Are you impressed because he has “ doctor” in front of his name ?

 

[Robert W]

I'm uncertain what you mean there. The IPCC's first and second Assessment Reports had significant influence by the governments of the sponsor nations who generally urged them to 'tone it down'. This produced loud complaints from the science community which succeeded in getting public support. The influence that political actors have these days on the products of the IPCC is very close to nil. But, since it was formed and is funded by a political association of governments to produce reports for those governments and the public at large, it was never possible for the IPCC to experience zero political pressure. However, if you wanted to avoid partisan political pressure, you'd couldn't find any venue as effectively neutral in international affairs as the UN.


Jesus, Robert, you must be their favorite mark.

Does your characterization (as "BS") come from your personal experience as to the magnitude of a typical global temperature change over a century and a half? Do you have any idea what actually IS a typical change over the course of a century? I bet Dr Google will know. Their AI says:

---

AI Overview
Find information in faster & easier ways with AI Overviews in Google Search - Google Search Help
The average global temperature has increased by about 1.7°F (1°C) since 1880, which is about ten times faster than the average rate of warming during the recovery from [the ten] ice ages over the past million years. This warming trend is unprecedented in the 2,000-year record and has accelerated in recent decades. In 2023, Earth was about 2.45°F (1.36°C) warmer than the preindustrial average between 1850 and 1900.

---

---

Emphasis was mine.

The average rate of warming towards interglacial periods, prior to the onset of AGW was 0.127C degrees/century. To achieve the warming we've accomplished in the last 150 years, we'd have to start back when Arthur (yeah, that Arthur) was attacking the Saxons, Justinian died after 38 years ruling the Byzantine Empire and Pope Gregory was working on his new calendar.

---

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Nobody will stop such a frightened man when he focuses only on disaster.