ENOUGH....Time for Gun Control....NOW

[jon_berzerk]

Why don't we just require licenses -- like we do for cars?

It would reduce gun sales and we can't have that. We only have about 300 million of them.

How would requiring licenses, like we do for cars, reduce gun sales?

The licensing that I have heard discussed can involve delaying the sale...

This isn't how licensing works for cars...?

The purpose of vehicle licensing is to establish clear ownership and to tax motorists. The reasons for licensing guns is much different.

vehicles kept off the streets are not required to be licensed in order to own them

 

[Rustic]

Why don't we just require licenses -- like we do for cars?

It would reduce gun sales and we can't have that. We only have about 300 million of them.

How would requiring licenses, like we do for cars, reduce gun sales?

The licensing that I have heard discussed can involve delaying the sale; that is the license would not be purchased from the gun dealer. Any delay in sales will result in a reduction in sales because people often have second thoughts.

License required to buy a firearm? lol - A Communist/socialist concept - fuck that!!!
Shit for brains

 

[Rustic]

How would requiring licenses, like we do for cars, reduce gun sales?

The licensing that I have heard discussed can involve delaying the sale...

This isn't how licensing works for cars...?

The purpose of vehicle licensing is to establish clear ownership and to tax motorists. The reasons for licensing guns is much different.

Agreed. it is to deny the People of the ability to challenge an illegitimate government. That's why billionaires are funding the anti gun legislation. They want you to be a proper, obedient slave. If you're armed though, they can't do it.

I suppose that can be. However, licensing can also be a way to insure gun owners are trained in the safe handling of their weapons, and a way to keep guns out of the hands of convicted felons and people that are mentally unstable and to provide a database of gun owners so police can determine who owns a gun used in a crime, or to return guns lost, stolen, or taken by the police in the commission of a crime. It all depends on the law.

How very communist, lol - obviously coming from someone who doesn't give a fuck about freedom. Dip shit

 

[jc456]

How would requiring licenses, like we do for cars, reduce gun sales?

The licensing that I have heard discussed can involve delaying the sale...

This isn't how licensing works for cars...?

The purpose of vehicle licensing is to establish clear ownership and to tax motorists. The reasons for licensing guns is much different.

Agreed. it is to deny the People of the ability to challenge an illegitimate government. That's why billionaires are funding the anti gun legislation. They want you to be a proper, obedient slave. If you're armed though, they can't do it.

I suppose that can be. However, licensing can also be a way to insure gun owners are trained in the safe handling of their weapons, and a way to keep guns out of the hands of convicted felons and people that are mentally unstable and to provide a database of gun owners so police can determine who owns a gun used in a crime, or to return guns lost, stolen, or taken by the police in the commission of a crime. It all depends on the law.

By the way, guns are registered when bought. Why do you feel additional paperwork is required? Most all of what you wrote is done by law abiding citizens. Why do you want to punish these folks and not enforce laws on the books?

 

[westwall]

How would requiring licenses, like we do for cars, reduce gun sales?

The licensing that I have heard discussed can involve delaying the sale...

This isn't how licensing works for cars...?

The purpose of vehicle licensing is to establish clear ownership and to tax motorists. The reasons for licensing guns is much different.

Agreed. it is to deny the People of the ability to challenge an illegitimate government. That's why billionaires are funding the anti gun legislation. They want you to be a proper, obedient slave. If you're armed though, they can't do it.

I suppose that can be. However, licensing can also be a way to insure gun owners are trained in the safe handling of their weapons, and a way to keep guns out of the hands of convicted felons and people that are mentally unstable and to provide a database of gun owners so police can determine who owns a gun used in a crime, or to return guns lost, stolen, or taken by the police in the commission of a crime. It all depends on the law.

Nope. Licensing ensures that gun ownership is confined to those whom the government deems reliable. We have hundreds of years of history that shows this to be true. In not a single case has your stated purpose EVER been the reason. There are data bases that have been built up over decades and they have had no measurable increase in the capture and prosecution of crime and the criminals involved.

Gun control takes guns from the hands of the citizenry and places them in the hands of a wealthy elite. That is the sole purpose of gun licensing and "common sense" gun laws. To disarm the populace and increase the power of the ruling elite.

 

[Flopper]

The licensing that I have heard discussed can involve delaying the sale...

This isn't how licensing works for cars...?

The purpose of vehicle licensing is to establish clear ownership and to tax motorists. The reasons for licensing guns is much different.

Agreed. it is to deny the People of the ability to challenge an illegitimate government. That's why billionaires are funding the anti gun legislation. They want you to be a proper, obedient slave. If you're armed though, they can't do it.

I suppose that can be. However, licensing can also be a way to insure gun owners are trained in the safe handling of their weapons, and a way to keep guns out of the hands of convicted felons and people that are mentally unstable and to provide a database of gun owners so police can determine who owns a gun used in a crime, or to return guns lost, stolen, or taken by the police in the commission of a crime. It all depends on the law.

By the way, guns are registered when bought. Why do you feel additional paperwork is required? Most all of what you wrote is done by law abiding citizens. Why do you want to punish these folks and not enforce laws on the books?

The information you're required to give a gun dealer under federal law is held 72 hrs after the required background check. State registration which is only required in about 13 states, is maintained indefinitely.

State regulations can require additional information, add fees, and can place some added restrictions on the sale, most commonly age restrictions, waiting period, residency, and gun safety training.

 

[westwall]

This isn't how licensing works for cars...?

The purpose of vehicle licensing is to establish clear ownership and to tax motorists. The reasons for licensing guns is much different.

Agreed. it is to deny the People of the ability to challenge an illegitimate government. That's why billionaires are funding the anti gun legislation. They want you to be a proper, obedient slave. If you're armed though, they can't do it.

I suppose that can be. However, licensing can also be a way to insure gun owners are trained in the safe handling of their weapons, and a way to keep guns out of the hands of convicted felons and people that are mentally unstable and to provide a database of gun owners so police can determine who owns a gun used in a crime, or to return guns lost, stolen, or taken by the police in the commission of a crime. It all depends on the law.

By the way, guns are registered when bought. Why do you feel additional paperwork is required? Most all of what you wrote is done by law abiding citizens. Why do you want to punish these folks and not enforce laws on the books?

The information you're required to give a gun dealer under federal law is held 72 hrs after the required background check. State registration which is only required in about 13 states, is maintained indefinitely.

State regulations can require additional information, add fees, and can place some added restrictions on the sale, most commonly age restrictions, waiting period, residency, and gun safety training.

Untrue. The ATF has violated Federal law and maintained the information. Additionally the 4473 that you fill out when you buy a firearm from a dealer is required to be maintained at the address of the dealer until he go's out of business at which time they are required to surrender them to the ATF.

 

[Norman]

There is a shooter, so let's make sure everyone is completely unarmed and at the mercy of the next shooter that comes along.

Seriously, why on earth do you think that makes any sense whatsoever?

No sane person wants a complete gun ban. Be rational.

As an independent, I am curious: What is the danger in having A. background checks, B. psychological examinations, and/or C. a limitation or ban on military-grade, semi-automatic machine guns that nobody NEEDS (I can understand the need for some sort of weaponry, but personally I feel that it is a little extreme)?

I personally feel that one of the functions of a government is to protect their people, and these guns, clearly, endanger many people.

I am glad you agree that the hard left is insane.

 

[hunarcy]

Why don't we just require licenses -- like we do for cars?

It would reduce gun sales and we can't have that. We only have about 300 million of them.

How would requiring licenses, like we do for cars, reduce gun sales?

The licensing that I have heard discussed can involve delaying the sale...

This isn't how licensing works for cars...?

The purpose of vehicle licensing is to establish clear ownership and to tax motorists. The reasons for licensing guns is much different.

There is no right to keep and bear vehicles.

 

[Rustic]

This isn't how licensing works for cars...?

The purpose of vehicle licensing is to establish clear ownership and to tax motorists. The reasons for licensing guns is much different.

Agreed. it is to deny the People of the ability to challenge an illegitimate government. That's why billionaires are funding the anti gun legislation. They want you to be a proper, obedient slave. If you're armed though, they can't do it.

I suppose that can be. However, licensing can also be a way to insure gun owners are trained in the safe handling of their weapons, and a way to keep guns out of the hands of convicted felons and people that are mentally unstable and to provide a database of gun owners so police can determine who owns a gun used in a crime, or to return guns lost, stolen, or taken by the police in the commission of a crime. It all depends on the law.

By the way, guns are registered when bought. Why do you feel additional paperwork is required? Most all of what you wrote is done by law abiding citizens. Why do you want to punish these folks and not enforce laws on the books?

The information you're required to give a gun dealer under federal law is held 72 hrs after the required background check. State registration which is only required in about 13 states, is maintained indefinitely.

State regulations can require additional information, add fees, and can place some added restrictions on the sale, most commonly age restrictions, waiting period, residency, and gun safety training.

All of that is absolutely unnecessary, fucked up control freak shit.

 

[Dr Grump]

Nope. Licensing ensures that gun ownership is confined to those whom the government deems reliable. We have hundreds of years of history that shows this to be true. In not a single case has your stated purpose EVER been the reason. There are data bases that have been built up over decades and they have had no measurable increase in the capture and prosecution of crime and the criminals involved.

Gun control takes guns from the hands of the citizenry and places them in the hands of a wealthy elite. That is the sole purpose of gun licensing and "common sense" gun laws. To disarm the populace and increase the power of the ruling elite.

What a load of crap. We have licensing in NZ and people from all walks of life have firearms. Not just the elite. Superfluous argument with no facts to back it up.

 

[Dr Grump]

There is no right to keep and bear vehicles.

What militia do you belong to?

 

[westwall]

Nope. Licensing ensures that gun ownership is confined to those whom the government deems reliable. We have hundreds of years of history that shows this to be true. In not a single case has your stated purpose EVER been the reason. There are data bases that have been built up over decades and they have had no measurable increase in the capture and prosecution of crime and the criminals involved.

Gun control takes guns from the hands of the citizenry and places them in the hands of a wealthy elite. That is the sole purpose of gun licensing and "common sense" gun laws. To disarm the populace and increase the power of the ruling elite.

What a load of crap. We have licensing in NZ and people from all walks of life have firearms. Not just the elite. Superfluous argument with no facts to back it up.

Bullshit. I have friends in New Zealand and it is very difficult to get a handgun. The only weapon that is relatively easy to obtain is a shotgun. Here's the process. As usual you are full of crap..

"How to apply for a new or renewed standard firearms licence
Step 1
Attend a firearms safety course and sit the safety test. To make an appointment contact your nearest Police station.

If you are renewing your licence, miss out Step 1.

Step 2
Fill in the form at the back of the Arms Code booklet given to you before the safety course. Or print and fill in the application for a New Zealand firearms licence form[PDF, 30KB].

Do not fill in the test on the back of the form at this stage.

Step 3
Take the application form to a PostShop and pay the application fee. Keep the receipt.
You could get two passport photos, needed in Step 4, while at the PostShop.

Fees (including GST):

• standard licence (valid for 10 years), new or renewed before expiry - $126.50
  (Note: any current endorsements held at the time of renewal may be transferred without charge to the new licence)
• standard licence expired (previous licence expired) - $241.50
  (Note: any endorsements upon an expired licence must be reapplied for and the endorsement fee paid)
• standard licence endorsement(s) - $204.00
  
  For one or more endorsements (when applied for at the same time), allowing you to have:
  • target pistols (B endorsement)
  • military-style semi-automatic rifles or shotguns (E endorsement)
  • a collection of pistols or restricted weapons (C Collectors or Museum endorsement)
  • pistols or restricted weapons for performing a play/film/re-enactment (C Theatrical endorsement)
  • pistols or restricted weapons for hire or sale (F endorsement - dealers).

Step 4
Take your application to your nearest Police station. Take with you:

• your application form
• your old licence (if you have one)
• proof that you have completed the safety course
• two recent passport style photos (for rules concerning passport photos visit theDepartment of Internal Affairs website(link is external))
• three documents that prove your identity (passport, birth certificate, driver licence, photo ID, credit card/bank card)
• contact details of two character referees. One referee must be your spouse or next of kin, the other must be someone who is over 20 years old and not related to you
• PostShop receipt for fees.

Step 5
Someone will arrange to visit you. They will interview you and check your firearms security arrangements. They will arrange to interview your referees.

You will have difficulty being deemed 'fit and proper' to possess or use firearms if you have:

• a history of violence
• repeated involvement with drugs
• been irresponsible with alcohol
• a personal or social relationship with people deemed to be unsuitable to be given access to firearms
• indicated an intent to use a firearm for self-defence.

Firearms storage
You will need to show that firearms will be stored in the manner set out in the Arms Regulations - if you can't, you may not get a licence or your current one will be revoked. All licence holders must install security at their home, even if they don't actually have any firearms. Security requirements are particularly strict for dealers and for licence holders who possess pistols, restricted weapons or MSSAs.

• You must never put a firearm where a child could reach it.
• You must store firearms and ammunition separately or disable the firearms, or both.
• You must keep your firearms unloaded and locked away in a rack, stout cabinet, steel cabinet or strongroom.

Step 6
After vetting has been completed, you will be told if your application has been successful. If it was, you will be issued with a licence."

Firearms licence - standard license

 

[Dr Grump]

[Q
Bullshit. I have friends in New Zealand and it is very difficult to get a handgun. The only weapon that is relatively easy to obtain is a shotgun. Here's the process. As usual you are full of crap..

Couple of things:

1) That doesn't invalidate my point that people from all works of life can get, and do have firearms. You said it was only for the elite. My Father in law is a farmer. As are his brothers and nephews. They all have firearms.
2) Just because you might be too lazy to go through the process to get a firearm many NZers aren't. And have them.
3) Handguns have always been difficult to get. Not only do very few have them, not many people want them.

The earliest general election I remember was 1975. We have them every three years. For the past 40 years not once - NOT ONCE - have guns been an issue. Never mentioned. In fact, if you want a sure-fire way to come last in an election in NZ, be pro-gun. You'll lose. Spectacularly...

 

[westwall]

[Q
Bullshit. I have friends in New Zealand and it is very difficult to get a handgun. The only weapon that is relatively easy to obtain is a shotgun. Here's the process. As usual you are full of crap..

Couple of things:

1) That doesn't invalidate my point that people from all works of life can get, and do have firearms. You said it was only for the elite. My Father in law is a farmer. As are his brothers and nephews. They all have firearms.
2) Just because you might be too lazy to go through the process to get a firearm many NZers aren't. And have them.
3) Handguns have always been difficult to get. Not only do very few have them, not many people want them.

The earliest general election I remember was 1975. We have them every three years. For the past 40 years not once - NOT ONCE - have guns been an issue. Never mentioned. In fact, if you want a sure-fire way to come last in an election in NZ, be pro-gun. You'll lose. Spectacularly...

People who are poor can't afford to jump through all of the hoops so no, gun ownership, at least legal gun ownership, is not open to all walks of life. That is a simple BS, and you know it.

Yes, farmers are able to get rifles and shotguns. What percentage of the population of New Zealand is made up of farmers? What is the average level of wealth for the average farmer compared to your average city dweller? It's not a question of lazy, it is expensive and time consuming to obtain even a base level License so once again the law prevents the poor and the lower middle class from getting one. You make my point for me yet again. Where the hell did you learn you debate skills?

How the hell do you know how many Kiwi's would like to own a handgun and can't because of the expense? You are long on assumptions, short on fact, and real, real long on uninformed opinion.

 

[Dr Grump]

People who are poor can't afford to jump through all of the hoops so no, gun ownership, at least legal gun ownership, is not open to all walks of life. That is a simple BS, and you know it.

Yes, farmers are able to get rifles and shotguns. What percentage of the population of New Zealand is made up of farmers? What is the average level of wealth for the average farmer compared to your average city dweller? It's not a question of lazy, it is expensive and time consuming to obtain even a base level License so once again the law prevents the poor and the lower middle class from getting one. You make my point for me yet again. Where the hell did you learn you debate skills?

How the hell do you know how many Kiwi's would like to own a handgun and can't because of the expense? You are long on assumptions, short on fact, and real, real long on uninformed opinion.

Uninformed? LOL...I only lived there for 41 years. Seriously, I don't know of one single person in NZ who wants a hand gun. I know hundreds of people. Not one. Not saying that they don't exist, just that I don't know any.

It doesn't cost that much to get a firearms license. $250 is not expensive at all..

Farmers are a reasonably high percentage of our population. My wife is a farmer's daughter and they all think you Yanks are nuts with your obsession with guns. Most NZers do.

I think you'll also find most NZers are happy with their lot. As I said, gun ownership isn't even an issue. And if you are poor, I'm guessing owning a gun is way down on your priorities. Note none of us go batshit crazy about politics like you guys do on here.

 

[westwall]

People who are poor can't afford to jump through all of the hoops so no, gun ownership, at least legal gun ownership, is not open to all walks of life. That is a simple BS, and you know it.

Yes, farmers are able to get rifles and shotguns. What percentage of the population of New Zealand is made up of farmers? What is the average level of wealth for the average farmer compared to your average city dweller? It's not a question of lazy, it is expensive and time consuming to obtain even a base level License so once again the law prevents the poor and the lower middle class from getting one. You make my point for me yet again. Where the hell did you learn you debate skills?

How the hell do you know how many Kiwi's would like to own a handgun and can't because of the expense? You are long on assumptions, short on fact, and real, real long on uninformed opinion.

Uninformed? LOL...I only lived there for 41 years. Seriously, I don't know of one single person in NZ who wants a hand gun. I know hundreds of people. Not one. Not saying that they don't exist, just that I don't know any.

It doesn't cost that much to get a firearms license. $250 is not expensive at all..

Farmers are a reasonably high percentage of our population. My wife is a farmer's daughter and they all think you Yanks are nuts with your obsession with guns. Most NZers do.

I think you'll also find most NZers are happy with their lot. As I said, gun ownership isn't even an issue. And if you are poor, I'm guessing owning a gun is way down on your priorities. Note none of us go batshit crazy about politics like you guys do on here.

Big whoop. I know dozens who do. It's not the cost, it's the time. Time is more expensive than money or don't you understand that concept? Seriously, every time you write something down you reinforce my argument, best give up while you can.

Farmers are a "reasonably high percentage" of the population you say? Can you post anything that isn't a lie? Total percentage of the population in New Zealand that is even remotely working in agriculture is 6.6%. That was measured back in 2009. The percentage has since dropped. EMPLOYMENT IN AGRICULTURE (% OF TOTAL EMPLOYMENT) IN NEW ZEALAND

Total number of people who are actually the farm owners is very small. Under 3%. Once again the wealthy elite get guns and not the poor. The fact that you think the average Kiwi is "happy with their lot" is asinine and demonstrates your total lack of connection to the average Kiwi. One of my best friends is the former chief of police for Ashburton and no, the average Kiwi is not happy with their lot. They are pissed off at how their tax dollars are taken from them and given to the Black Power gang for their parties etc.

 

[Dr Grump]

Big whoop. I know dozens who do. It's not the cost, it's the time. Time is more expensive than money or don't you understand that concept? Seriously, every time you write something down you reinforce my argument, best give up while you can.

Farmers are a "reasonably high percentage" of the population you say? Can you post anything that isn't a lie? Total percentage of the population in New Zealand that is even remotely working in agriculture is 6.6%. That was measured back in 2009. The percentage has since dropped. EMPLOYMENT IN AGRICULTURE (% OF TOTAL EMPLOYMENT) IN NEW ZEALAND

Total number of people who are actually the farm owners is very small. Under 3%. Once again the wealthy elite get guns and not the poor. The fact that you think the average Kiwi is "happy with their lot" is asinine and demonstrates your total lack of connection to the average Kiwi. One of my best friends is the former chief of police for Ashburton and no, the average Kiwi is not happy with their lot. They are pissed off at how their tax dollars are taken from them and given to the Black Power gang for their parties etc.

LOL...I reckon you might know a dozen at the most. And if you're perusing a pro-gun NZ website (if there is such a thing), then you might know the 100 or so out of 4 million people who want hand guns. Big deal. I bet there are people in the US who are pro incest too. Doesn't mean it's the norm or popular.

Time? How long does it take to fill out a few forms? The rest if done by visiting the post office. The police do most of the rest. Not that long at all.

Still, NZ is an agriculture-based economy in the main. Our largest company is Fonterra.

The former police chief in Ashburton? LOL.. So you know one guy from 8000 serving members and that is the norm? Knowing the police chief from Ashburnton is like knowing the police chief from Frankfort. That is how you take your information? We moan here and there like everybody, but no where near as much as you guys.

Tax monies given to the Black Power? If you want to go there I will, but it is a long conversation, but to prove you wrong I'm willing to go there. You?

 

[westwall]

Big whoop. I know dozens who do. It's not the cost, it's the time. Time is more expensive than money or don't you understand that concept? Seriously, every time you write something down you reinforce my argument, best give up while you can.

Farmers are a "reasonably high percentage" of the population you say? Can you post anything that isn't a lie? Total percentage of the population in New Zealand that is even remotely working in agriculture is 6.6%. That was measured back in 2009. The percentage has since dropped. EMPLOYMENT IN AGRICULTURE (% OF TOTAL EMPLOYMENT) IN NEW ZEALAND

Total number of people who are actually the farm owners is very small. Under 3%. Once again the wealthy elite get guns and not the poor. The fact that you think the average Kiwi is "happy with their lot" is asinine and demonstrates your total lack of connection to the average Kiwi. One of my best friends is the former chief of police for Ashburton and no, the average Kiwi is not happy with their lot. They are pissed off at how their tax dollars are taken from them and given to the Black Power gang for their parties etc.

LOL...I reckon you might know a dozen at the most. And if you're perusing a pro-gun NZ website (if there is such a thing), then you might know the 100 or so out of 4 million people who want hand guns. Big deal. I bet there are people in the US who are pro incest too. Doesn't mean it's the norm or popular.

Time? How long does it take to fill out a few forms? The rest if done by visiting the post office. The police do most of the rest. Not that long at all.

Still, NZ is an agriculture-based economy in the main. Our largest company is Fonterra.

The former police chief in Ashburton? LOL.. So you know one guy from 8000 serving members and that is the norm? Knowing the police chief from Ashburnton is like knowing the police chief from Frankfort. That is how you take your information? We moan here and there like everybody, but no where near as much as you guys.

Tax monies given to the Black Power? If you want to go there I will, but it is a long conversation, but to prove you wrong I'm willing to go there. You?

Wrong. Fletcher Building is number one. And by a long ways. Number two is Progressive Enterprises, and at number three is Fonterra, which is a co-op, which is no surprise. And lo and behold one of their biggest money makers is Sponge Bob Square Pants, so no, agriculture is not New Zealands biggest company, nor is agriculture New Zealands biggest economic driver. Not even close.

Next.

Business Profiles of New Zealand's Top 100 Companies

 

[Dr Grump]

Wrong. Fletcher Building is number one. And by a long ways. Number two is Progressive Enterprises, and at number three is Fonterra, which is a co-op, which is no surprise. And lo and behold one of their biggest money makers is Sponge Bob Square Pants, so no, agriculture is not New Zealands biggest company, nor is agriculture New Zealands biggest economic driver. Not even close.

Next.

Business Profiles of New Zealand's Top 100 Companies

You reall y should read your own link. That top 100 is by number of employees. Are you saying that the more people who work for a company dictates whether it is number one or not? I don't think so.

Gee, what are the top TWO exports from New Zealand. Maybe agriculture has a different definition stateside... New Zealand’s Top 10 Exports

As you say. Next