Even Fox Defends Obama's "Keep What You Have," Meaning No Changes In It

[G.T.]

Our healthcare system is a Rube Goldbergian nightmare. We have been glomming "fixes" on top of "fixes" for nearly a century. It needs to all be torn down and started from scratch.

We are at a crossroads. We either need government all in (single payer) or all the way out (free market).

I come down on the free market side, but even single payer would be better than this fucking bullshit we have going on now.

And Obama just made it a LOT worse.

The problem with an unfettered free market in healthcare is that it doesn't work towards the benefit of health. Preventative care is better for the consumers'(health), being sick is better for the doctors'(wallet).

There needs to be a balance. But I'm not really sure why 2 mile ambulance rides need to cost $750 or a four second xray can be like 2 grand. It's insane.

It's because of fettering.

of course, it's because of the incorrect balance of fettering

 

[g5000]

Our healthcare system is a Rube Goldbergian nightmare. We have been glomming "fixes" on top of "fixes" for nearly a century. It needs to all be torn down and started from scratch.

We are at a crossroads. We either need government all in (single payer) or all the way out (free market).

I come down on the free market side, but even single payer would be better than this fucking bullshit we have going on now.

And Obama just made it a LOT worse.

The problem with an unfettered free market in healthcare is that it doesn't work towards the benefit of health. Preventative care is better for the consumers'(health), being sick is better for the doctors'(wallet).

There needs to be a balance. But I'm not really sure why 2 mile ambulance rides need to cost $750 or a four second xray can be like 2 grand. It's insane.

We should be buying our health insurance the same way we buy our home, auto, and life insurance.

 

[Mertex]

Every poll shows that the majority of the American people do not want it.

People polled have been influenced by the negative stories and lies being told regarding Obamacare by the anti-Obamacare party. Also, Obama was re-elected based on his signature on the ACA, and more people do not want it repealed than do.

Poll: Most Americans Don?t Want Congress to Repeal Obamacare - NationalJournal.com

New Poll: Only One-Third Of Americans Support Repealing, Defunding Or Delaying Obamacare - Forbes


We’re not suggesting that the Affordable Care Act shouldn’t prompt questions and concern from Americans. There are many unknowns about how exactly a law of this magnitude will play out, particularly its impact on those who buy their own insurance. But don’t expect honest answers from a partisan anti-Obamacare campaign.
Americans For Prosperity Hurl False Assumptions On Obamacare

But the majority of the people likely don't want speed limits at 55 MPH....but they obey because it is the law.

But, they claim they don't like it and they haven't even tried it yet. There are lots of stories of people who are claiming they are getting a much better deal than they had before, not to mention the many students that are relieved because they are able to stay on their parent's policy while still attending school. Also, those who couldn't get insurance before (pre-existing conditions), are now able to do so, yet those who claim they don't like it are not even using it, yet or may not even be enrolled yet.

And, maybe a poll should be taken as to how many want to go back to what we had? Republicans don't offer anything to replace Obamacare that is better, just what we had before.

And besides, that was the same story with Medicare, conservatives were all on the same page, and now even Republicans don't want the government messing with their Medicare!

High volume as people get their letters saying "you are being dropped" is not a sign of people liking the law.

Insurance companies are taking advantage of the new law and dropping people they feel are using up too much medical service, because once Obamacare goes into effect, they won't be able to do that. I think more information will be available as to why some insurance companies are dropping people before too long.

It is a sign of people having no choice but obey the law if they want insurance.

Well, you have to admit there must be a problem when many people are not able to afford health insurance. I know teachers that were paying astronomical premiums, and many middle-income workers simply could not afford the high premiums. Obamacare is supposed to be affordable, and the more people that sign up, the more the savings will be, but it's hard to convince people that it is a good thing when we have such a loud voice on the other side demeaning it at every turn.

 

[The Rabbi]

Junk insurance policies that were costing me, you, and everyone else when the people holding these policies had catostrophic illnesses then failed to pay the bill.

Here's the fatal flaw in your bogus argument: You said "when" these people had catastrophic illnesses. Actually, it's IF someone with a cheaper policy got a catastrophic illness, they would be hit with big bills. Even if they did, it is not a certainty me or you would be paying their bills. They would be saddled with them.

Now these people will have to get more expensive health insurance, many of which will be SUBSIDIZED WITH FEDERAL TAXPAYER DOLLARS, costing me, you, and everyone else!

They need to start over with this whole health insurance bullshit.

How about attacking the source of the issue: the cost of the actual healthcare.

Gee, the gOP proposed exactly that and were reviled for it.
The issue is not cost. Cost is an effect.
If we look at areas of health care that are unregulated we see costs have gone down and quality has gone up. This would be things like liposuction, Lasik, etc. Doctors even offer payment plans for it.
The rest of the market should work like that. Consumers making informed choices.
When I needed a colonoscopy I wanted to shop around. It was virtually impossible. Most times the people answering the phones themselves had no idea how much the procedure cost.
Minimizing hte role of 3rd party providers will go a long way towards reducing costs.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Fox is down there with msnbc, abc, nbc, cbs, and cnn at the bottom of the outhouse.

Wouldn't it be easier to just say "I believe nothing but what I want and like" and stop all the pretending?

Thats probably a popular opinion among many. Discerning the truth can be difficult and it most certainly will not come from the propaganda that the network and cable news regurgitate.

 

[Jarhead]

Every poll shows that the majority of the American people do not want it.

People polled have been influenced by the negative stories and lies being told regarding Obamacare by the anti-Obamacare party. Also, Obama was re-elected based on his signature on the ACA, and more people do not want it repealed than do.

Poll: Most Americans Don?t Want Congress to Repeal Obamacare - NationalJournal.com

New Poll: Only One-Third Of Americans Support Repealing, Defunding Or Delaying Obamacare - Forbes


We’re not suggesting that the Affordable Care Act shouldn’t prompt questions and concern from Americans. There are many unknowns about how exactly a law of this magnitude will play out, particularly its impact on those who buy their own insurance. But don’t expect honest answers from a partisan anti-Obamacare campaign.
Americans For Prosperity Hurl False Assumptions On Obamacare

But the majority of the people likely don't want speed limits at 55 MPH....but they obey because it is the law.

But, they claim they don't like it and they haven't even tried it yet. There are lots of stories of people who are claiming they are getting a much better deal than they had before, not to mention the many students that are relieved because they are able to stay on their parent's policy while still attending school. Also, those who couldn't get insurance before (pre-existing conditions), are now able to do so, yet those who claim they don't like it are not even using it, yet or may not even be enrolled yet.

And, maybe a poll should be taken as to how many want to go back to what we had? Republicans don't offer anything to replace Obamacare that is better, just what we had before.

And besides, that was the same story with Medicare, conservatives were all on the same page, and now even Republicans don't want the government messing with their Medicare!

High volume as people get their letters saying "you are being dropped" is not a sign of people liking the law.

Insurance companies are taking advantage of the new law and dropping people they feel are using up too much medical service, because once Obamacare goes into effect, they won't be able to do that. I think more information will be available as to why some insurance companies are dropping people before too long.

It is a sign of people having no choice but obey the law if they want insurance.

Well, you have to admit there must be a problem when many people are not able to afford health insurance. I know teachers that were paying astronomical premiums, and many middle-income workers simply could not afford the high premiums. Obamacare is supposed to be affordable, and the more people that sign up, the more the savings will be, but it's hard to convince people that it is a good thing when we have such a loud voice on the other side demeaning it at every turn.

The ones who are claiming to get a much better deal are the ones who qualify for subsidies.

Basic logic says the following:

insurance company must insure people with pre existing conditions....that will be expensive for the insurance companies. A necessary thing for humanity...I agree....but it will drive premiums up for others.

Young people will be divided and many will opt for the 500-700 tax as opposed to a 2500 premium. I don't blame them. Stupid for them? Yes. But they believe they are invincible....and without them, the system will result in higher premiums.


Bottom line......premiums will go up......and those of use that do not get subsidies will pay sky high premiums and those of us that get subsidies will still have to pay more.

 

[Mertex]

Here's the fatal flaw in your bogus argument: You said "when" these people had catastrophic illnesses. Actually, it's IF someone with a cheaper policy got a catastrophic illness, they would be hit with big bills. Even if they did, it is not a certainty me or you would be paying their bills. They would be saddled with them.

Ha, you think Hospitals are going to just sweep under the rug the costs from people that can't pay? You must really be naive. People whose insurance doesn't cover a $100k medical bill may be saddled with it, but guess what, they file bankruptcy because they can't pay, and guess who ends up paying it?


Higher Medical Care Prices
Uninsured people are more likely to declare bankruptcy due to medical bills than people who have health insurance. The costs incurred in medical bills that are bankrupted do not vanish; instead, they are added to everyone else's medical bill as a sort of "cost of doing business" expense. In other words, if George down the street declares bankruptcy because he can't pay for the surgery on his leg, you pay for part of that surgery.

Hospitals may also declare some people indigent--that is, they do not have the resources to pay for their medical care that the hospital is legally required to provide. The hospital writes off their bill, using the writeoff as a tax deduction and/or rolling it into an annual state or federal grant request for indigent care. The costs of that care come out of tax money or higher bills to customers who are not indigent.

How Do Taxpayers Pay for the Uninsured? | eHow

Now these people will have to get more expensive health insurance, many of which will be SUBSIDIZED WITH FEDERAL TAXPAYER DOLLARS, costing me, you, and everyone else!

Affordable Healthcare Act - affordable, meaning less expensive than what they had before, so many more will be insured, and those that can't afford it will be subsidized, but it will be a lot less than what we now pay to ER - which is not even healthcare but more of a "last resort" - many times futile.

 

[Sunshine]

Here's the fatal flaw in your bogus argument: You said "when" these people had catastrophic illnesses. Actually, it's IF someone with a cheaper policy got a catastrophic illness, they would be hit with big bills. Even if they did, it is not a certainty me or you would be paying their bills. They would be saddled with them.

Ha, you think Hospitals are going to just sweep under the rug the costs from people that can't pay? You must really be naive. People whose insurance doesn't cover a $100k medical bill may be saddled with it, but guess what, they file bankruptcy because they can't pay, and guess who ends up paying it?


Higher Medical Care Prices
Uninsured people are more likely to declare bankruptcy due to medical bills than people who have health insurance. The costs incurred in medical bills that are bankrupted do not vanish; instead, they are added to everyone else's medical bill as a sort of "cost of doing business" expense. In other words, if George down the street declares bankruptcy because he can't pay for the surgery on his leg, you pay for part of that surgery.

Hospitals may also declare some people indigent--that is, they do not have the resources to pay for their medical care that the hospital is legally required to provide. The hospital writes off their bill, using the writeoff as a tax deduction and/or rolling it into an annual state or federal grant request for indigent care. The costs of that care come out of tax money or higher bills to customers who are not indigent.

How Do Taxpayers Pay for the Uninsured? | eHow

Now these people will have to get more expensive health insurance, many of which will be SUBSIDIZED WITH FEDERAL TAXPAYER DOLLARS, costing me, you, and everyone else!

Affordable Healthcare Act - affordable, meaning less expensive than what they had before, so many more will be insured, and those that can't afford it will be subsidized, but it will be a lot less than what we now pay to ER - which is not even healthcare but more of a "last resort" - many times futile.

Your math teacher must have really sucked. There is nothing 'affordable' about any of this.

 

[g5000]

ObamaCare operates on the assumption it will cost $900 billion. That's the working assumption built into the law.

That is not a savings. That is a $900 billion cost that did not exist before.

That $900 billion cost is being paid for with higher taxes and by forcing seniors into more expensive Medicare plans.

So don't sit there and pretend ObamaCare is saving money for the taxpayers. This is classic redistribution.

 

[Edgetho]

ObamaCare operates on the assumption it will cost $900 billion. That's the working assumption built into the law.

That is not a savings. That is a $900 billion cost that did not exist before.

That $900 billion cost is being paid for with higher taxes and by forcing seniors into more expensive Medicare plans.

So don't sit there and pretend ObamaCare is saving money for the taxpayers. This is classic redistribution.

The whole ACA was based on lies.

Know why? Because that was the only way they could get it passed.

And you know what you can do about it now?

Suck on it. That's it.

obama lied, Nazi Pelousy lied, Dingleberry Harry Reid lied, Turban Durbin lied, the entire dimocrap caucas lied.


And you know what you can do about it?

Suck on it.

It's how they operate... It's how dimocraps operate. EVERYTHING they do is based on lies. Everything.

Benghazi? A lie and a cover up. Know what you can do about it? Suck on it.

Eric Himmler and Fast and Furious. A lie. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY approves cross-border operations but the president.

Nobody.

Know what you can do about it?

Suck on it.

the DISGUSTING FILTH in the LSM is paying attention now???

So what? Seriously.... So what?

Know what you can do about the ACA now?

Suck on it.

Benghazi? the DISGUSTING FILTH in the LSM finally gets around to taking a look at it..... Even "Tingles".

So what? They already got away with it. dimocrap scum lied about it, blamed a video, conducted a phony cover-up investigation, the DISGUSTING FILTH in the LSM sat on their collective hands and -- the Stuttering Clusterfuck got re-elected.

Suck on it.

The dimocrap party isn't a political organization, it is a criminal enterprise.

And oh..... One more thing you can do......??

Suck on it. They just don't care what you think.

 

[Stephanie]

 

[mascale]

Officialyy, the Social Security COLA--which provides a fixed percentage raise for monthly primary benefit amount, regardless of what it is--will increase benefits 1.5% per month. That is based on rising costs, but Part B Medicare is not one of them. The Pemium amount will be the same.

The MediCare enrolled are a part of what CMS does, and that is now finally(?) working smoothly enough. Part D prescription costs were lowered under the National Health Plan act.

Ask people signing up for MediCare what they think Probably the health plan is working just fine! That probably was not the case in the 1960's, when there was no such thing as a website.

"Crow, James Crow: Shaken, Not Stirred!'
(William Tell maybe role model for White Eyes--teaching trust of adults to little kids(?)! Maybe soon a Grandpa William Tell will need to be trusted(?)!)

 

[Mertex]

Every poll shows that the majority of the American people do not want it.

People polled have been influenced by the negative stories and lies being told regarding Obamacare by the anti-Obamacare party. Also, Obama was re-elected based on his signature on the ACA, and more people do not want it repealed than do.

Poll: Most Americans Don?t Want Congress to Repeal Obamacare - NationalJournal.com

New Poll: Only One-Third Of Americans Support Repealing, Defunding Or Delaying Obamacare - Forbes


We’re not suggesting that the Affordable Care Act shouldn’t prompt questions and concern from Americans. There are many unknowns about how exactly a law of this magnitude will play out, particularly its impact on those who buy their own insurance. But don’t expect honest answers from a partisan anti-Obamacare campaign.
Americans For Prosperity Hurl False Assumptions On Obamacare


But, they claim they don't like it and they haven't even tried it yet. There are lots of stories of people who are claiming they are getting a much better deal than they had before, not to mention the many students that are relieved because they are able to stay on their parent's policy while still attending school. Also, those who couldn't get insurance before (pre-existing conditions), are now able to do so, yet those who claim they don't like it are not even using it, yet or may not even be enrolled yet.

And, maybe a poll should be taken as to how many want to go back to what we had? Republicans don't offer anything to replace Obamacare that is better, just what we had before.

And besides, that was the same story with Medicare, conservatives were all on the same page, and now even Republicans don't want the government messing with their Medicare!

Insurance companies are taking advantage of the new law and dropping people they feel are using up too much medical service, because once Obamacare goes into effect, they won't be able to do that. I think more information will be available as to why some insurance companies are dropping people before too long.

It is a sign of people having no choice but obey the law if they want insurance.

Well, you have to admit there must be a problem when many people are not able to afford health insurance. I know teachers that were paying astronomical premiums, and many middle-income workers simply could not afford the high premiums. Obamacare is supposed to be affordable, and the more people that sign up, the more the savings will be, but it's hard to convince people that it is a good thing when we have such a loud voice on the other side demeaning it at every turn.

The ones who are claiming to get a much better deal are the ones who qualify for subsidies.

Basic logic says the following:

insurance company must insure people with pre existing conditions....that will be expensive for the insurance companies. A necessary thing for humanity...I agree....but it will drive premiums up for others.

Young people will be divided and many will opt for the 500-700 tax as opposed to a 2500 premium. I don't blame them. Stupid for them? Yes. But they believe they are invincible....and without them, the system will result in higher premiums.


Bottom line......premiums will go up......and those of use that do not get subsidies will pay sky high premiums and those of us that get subsidies will still have to pay more.

Right now you and others are just guessing. You claim that basic logic tells you that young people will opt out and pay the fine - but they still won't be insured, and all it takes is one serious illness and your logic will go out the window because they will no longer be treated.

At this point, everyone -- including the insurers -- is just guessing at what premiums should be. That makes next year a giant experiment. Will younger, healthier people purchase coverage, or will they skip it and simply pay the fine? Next year, the fine starts at $95 per adult -- a rate likely to be cheaper than any individual plan available on the state exchanges. Who will pay higher premiums under Obamacare? Young men - May. 14, 2013

 

[bigrebnc1775]

you seem to have forgotten the history of Obamas "you can keep your plan" rhetoric.

Those against the ACA were saying that the way the plan is written, insurance companies will be forced to change their policies forcing many to lose their plans even if they want to keep them.

SO the Obama administration went out there debunking it by saying..

"if you want to keep your plan, you can keep it. Period."

So, in essence, he debunked exactly what is happening.

Judge Jeanine: 'Mr. President, You Talk a Big Game on Accountability'

Judge Jeanine Opening Statement Slams Obama Over Health Care Rollout, Lack of Accountability | Fox News Insider

 

[Mertex]

For those who were looking for a link - here it is, and it shows that some of the horror stories are just misinformation from clueless people. So much for rw claims that CBS is partisan left!

I hate to see the reaction when Obamacare has been in place, and even some Republicans will admit to liking it, what the extreme rw'ers who are whining about it now, are going to say about it then! Oh, they'll just try to screw it up, like Ryan tried to do to Medicare!


Well you will never believe who poked giant holes through this 'report': Fox News' Greta Van Sustern.

Greta teed up the interview using the same setup as Crawford’s piece, that Barrette is “finding out she will have to pay 10 times as much for health insurance” because “she is losing her current plan to Obamacare.”
“I have a copy of your Florida Blue insurance and it’s about $54 a month,” Greta continued, “and now I understand that under Obamacare, it’s going to go up, at least they said that the policy they would offer you under Florida Blue, would be $591; is that correct?”

Actually, the plan BCBSFL was only one of many plans Dianne has to choose from, 10 of which are cheaper than that $591, and based on her income, she’d only pay around $209 a month, but Greta did cut right to the chase about the quality of her old plan.

“Your $54 a month policy is a pretty, you know, bare bones policy, “Greta said. “Why do you want to keep that one, except for the price? Maybe you can get something better with a subsidy?”

Ms. Barrette goes on to say that this 'insurance' is perfect for what she needs: a doctor visit copay and prescription copay, and maybe some outpatient services. It turns out that she actually had that reversed and the insurance company paid a $50 'copay' towards a doctor visit, and $15 for prescriptions, and she herself was responsible for all the rest of the costs. The interviewee acknowledged no hospital stays were covered in response to Greta's question.
Now this is exactly the type of junk insurance Obamacare is meant to do away with, and it is not surprising that people don't know what their insurance covers. But a reporter with a major news outlet should have done some reporting and learned that. So it should be of great embarassment to CBS to be shown up that way by Fox filling in missing facts in their story.

What is funny though is that a subsequent interview that was to take place on Fox News with Ms. Barrette, was cancelled, after Greta poked holes in the story.


Daily Kos: Wow! Fox Corrects CBS News Obamacare Insurance Plan Loss "Horror Story"

 

[dblack]

For those who were looking for a link - here it is, and it shows that some of the horror stories are just misinformation from clueless people. So much for rw claims that CBS is partisan left!

I hate to see the reaction when Obamacare has been in place, and even some Republicans will admit to liking it, what the extreme rw'ers who are whining about it now, are going to say about it then! Oh, they'll just try to screw it up, like Ryan tried to do to Medicare!


Well you will never believe who poked giant holes through this 'report': Fox News' Greta Van Sustern.

Greta teed up the interview using the same setup as Crawford’s piece, that Barrette is “finding out she will have to pay 10 times as much for health insurance” because “she is losing her current plan to Obamacare.”
“I have a copy of your Florida Blue insurance and it’s about $54 a month,” Greta continued, “and now I understand that under Obamacare, it’s going to go up, at least they said that the policy they would offer you under Florida Blue, would be $591; is that correct?”

Actually, the plan BCBSFL was only one of many plans Dianne has to choose from, 10 of which are cheaper than that $591, and based on her income, she’d only pay around $209 a month, but Greta did cut right to the chase about the quality of her old plan.

“Your $54 a month policy is a pretty, you know, bare bones policy, “Greta said. “Why do you want to keep that one, except for the price? Maybe you can get something better with a subsidy?”

Ms. Barrette goes on to say that this 'insurance' is perfect for what she needs: a doctor visit copay and prescription copay, and maybe some outpatient services. It turns out that she actually had that reversed and the insurance company paid a $50 'copay' towards a doctor visit, and $15 for prescriptions, and she herself was responsible for all the rest of the costs. The interviewee acknowledged no hospital stays were covered in response to Greta's question.
Now this is exactly the type of junk insurance Obamacare is meant to do away with, and it is not surprising that people don't know what their insurance covers. But a reporter with a major news outlet should have done some reporting and learned that. So it should be of great embarassment to CBS to be shown up that way by Fox filling in missing facts in their story.

What is funny though is that a subsequent interview that was to take place on Fox News with Ms. Barrette, was cancelled, after Greta poked holes in the story.


Daily Kos: Wow! Fox Corrects CBS News Obamacare Insurance Plan Loss "Horror Story"

Oh good. Fox says so. I feel better now/.

 

[Erand7899]

It is absolutely true that Sebilius said that. We all heard it.

Just like we all know that obamacare made current insurance policies illegal and that's why so many people lost their coverage.

Junk insurance policies that were costing me, you, and everyone else when the people holding these policies had catostrophic illnesses then failed to pay the bill.

Absolutely, common people are too damn dumb to know whether the health insurance they are paying for is good for them. Thank God that they have all you braindead liberals around to fix that for them.

After all, how can a 30 year old single man get by without contraceptive benefits, maternity benefits, mamograms and the like? The cad!

 

[blackhawk]

There is no longer a need to speculate about what Obamacare will cost and who will pay what to quote the tag line from the X files the truth is out there and we are starting to see it.

 

[MeBelle]

The law says that ALL insurance policies must expand coverage to provide benefits that they did not provide before. This includes maternity care, contraception, abortion, invitro fertilization and newborn care. Because coverage has been expanded, BY LAW, all of the policies that did not have that coverage before had to be cancelled. There is no grandfathering, unless your prior policy also offered these "benefits" and complied with the law.

Wrong. https://www.healthcare.gov/what-if-i-have-a-grandfathered-health-plan/

From your link dude!

What grandfathered plans do and don't have to cover
Here's a quick look at the consumer protections that do and don't apply to grandfathered plans:

All health plans must:

End lifetime limits on coverage
End arbitrary cancellations of health coverage
Cover adult children up to age 26
Provide a Summary of Benefits and Coverage (SBC), a short, easy-to-understand summary of what a plan covers and costs
Hold insurance companies accountable to spend your premiums on health care, not administrative costs and bonuses

Grandfathered plans DON'T have to:

Cover preventive care for free
Guarantee your right to appeal
Protect your choice of doctors and access to emergency care
Be held accountable through Rate Review for excessive premium increases

the ones in bold were not 'law' before 2010.

 

[MeBelle]

So far the message board seems fairly silent about the HHS Secretary at the hearings. The Republicans are clearly so mad at ObamaCare, that what makes them really mad is that it is taking so long for so many to enroll at the website(?)!

95% of U. S. business is unaffected by the business insurance rules, for example. The stock market seems to have noticed. The new Anti-Business Party, GOP, appears to have not noticed that at all.

So now even FOX notices this:

"The secretary denied that Obama had broken his promise and claimed that for the most part, people who had coverage as of March 2010 can keep their current plans -- provided their insurance companies haven't changed them significantly. That wrinkle, however, was rarely explained by Obama before now."

Jeez!

Only type one paragraph of the report.



Sebelius deflects criticism on ObamaCare-tied cancellation notices | Fox News