Even if emissions stop, carbon dioxide could warm Earth for centuries

[PMZ]

No, it's not underway now.

All that is underway are a relative few companies looking for a pile of government R&D grants, to try and produce something that may or may not pan out.

If any of your pipe dreams stood a snowball's chance, you'd have relatively little trouble attracting private R&D money. But they play their cards wisely.

Actually, it is underway now. There is little trouble attracting private money.

The government role is well beyond the capability of any company. The big picture. How all of the pieces done by corporations integrate into a functional whole. What technologies are maturing at the right rate and which need pushing and encouraging.

The government role is well beyond the capability of any company.

The government role is well beyond any semblance of continuation of perpetuating its madness of do-all, be-all, and end-all everything at taxpayer's expense by the few criminals in Congress who insist on overextending OTHER PEOPLE'S debt. When they leave as multi-billionaires, they can move out of the country and get off scot-free, while our children have to scramble through life paying for all the money they charged to the people for their extravagant pet rock projects. It's just wrong and it's not fitting to strangle the future because Nancy Pelosi is a spendthrift idiot.

You appear to be absolutely and remarkably misinformed.

 

[HelenaHandbag]

Actually, it is underway now. There is little trouble attracting private money.

The government role is well beyond the capability of any company. The big picture. How all of the pieces done by corporations integrate into a functional whole. What technologies are maturing at the right rate and which need pushing and encouraging.

If the technologies were worth pushing and encouraging, there would be no need for government money.

Face it, either you guys have no seriously viably marketable product or you seriously stink at marketing. Or both.

Here's an example of how sustainable energy is attracting private money.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qwRYtiSbbVg&desktop_uri=/watch?v=qwRYtiSbbVg

Apparently you are not aware of the wind and solar plants going up all over?

I'm aware of them going up all over because of absurd subsidies.

You don't believe private businesses would pass up some free lunch, do you?

 

[HelenaHandbag]

The government role is well beyond the capability of any company.

Because only the government can force a money loser into the marketplace and make it up out of the pockets of the taxpayers.

 

[PMZ]

If the technologies were worth pushing and encouraging, there would be no need for government money.

Face it, either you guys have no seriously viably marketable product or you seriously stink at marketing. Or both.

Here's an example of how sustainable energy is attracting private money.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qwRYtiSbbVg&desktop_uri=/watch?v=qwRYtiSbbVg

Apparently you are not aware of the wind and solar plants going up all over?

I'm aware of them going up all over because of absurd subsidies.

You don't believe private businesses would pass up some free lunch, do you?

There's no such thing as a free lunch.

For example, the Republican plan, which proposes doing nothing about anything, is not a free lunch. It's a replica of the Bush plans that left us $17T in debt.

We can sit here until the extreme weather consequences of AGW overwhelm us, until the clash between fossil fuels going down the back of the supply curve meet demand going up from the world driven by China and India, and prices skyrocket, until every developed country but America is making money from the largest project mankind has ever undertaken, and then move. Or we can plan and execute a reasonable and minimum cost strategy.

You've revealed the Republican kick the can strategy.

The country has rejected it.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Government regulates businesses to keep things fair
Government doles out the tax dollars to build roads, educate our children and regulates our economy.

For the conservatives to ignore reality for profit like this tells me all I need to know. I support the private sector but it is only part of the puzzle.

 

[ScienceRocks]

A energy grid made up of renewable energy that doesn't depend on "fuels" that need a "middle man" is much cheaper. The middle man is the pipe line we have to construct or the mines we have to build.

Renewables also don't cause pollution or cancer like coal, oil and natural gas does.

 

[PMZ]

Government regulates businesses to keep things fair
Government doles out the tax dollars to build roads, educate our children and regulates our economy.

For the conservatives to ignore reality for profit like this tells me all I need to know. I support the private sector but it is only part of the puzzle.

That "only part of the puzzle" is the missing link. Imagine how effective propaganda must be to erase that simple, logical, common sense piece.

 

[PMZ]

A good reference showing how easy fuel and waste free energy production beats out fossil fuel plants.

http://www.tnb.com.my/nuclear/economics-of-nuclear-plant.html

 

[ScienceRocks]

PMZ we need to focus on
1. Showing the economic benefits of "renewable" energy over the long term.
2. Health benefits

1#. Can be about the benefits of putting up solar or wind farms = little of the secondary maintenance cost after installation. How many trucks, drivers, train tracks and man hours does it take to get the fossil fuels compared to renewables??? I feel this must be part of the $$$ comparison.

2# Show how pollution from coal kills 10,000 people a year and/or dig up the article from China showing that coal pollution causes ; A. 5 less years of life in parts of China and B. Higher levels of cancer. Ask them if they believe that this isn't having affect on our society?

These are arguments worth using.

 

[flacaltenn]

PMZ we need to focus on
1. Showing the economic benefits of "renewable" energy over the long term.
2. Health benefits

1#. Can be about the benefits of putting up solar or wind farms = little of the secondary maintenance cost after installation. How many trucks, drivers, train tracks and man hours does it take to get the fossil fuels compared to renewables??? I feel this must be part of the $$$ comparison.

2# Show how pollution from coal kills 10,000 people a year and/or dig up the article from China showing that coal pollution causes ; A. 5 less years of life in parts of China and B. Higher levels of cancer. Ask them if they believe that this isn't having affect on our society?

These are arguments worth using.

I'd suggest the better engineering approach would be to figure out how to power ONE 7-11store in Topeka for 24 hours every day for a year with your "product".. BEFORE you waste time on marketing it with those stats... When you can do that ---- you won't need to work as hard villifying the current method of keeping our society lighted and comfortable..

Trying to keep the ice cream from melting and the coffee warm with a WIND MILL --- is only slightly more mature than relying on "free" Lightning to do the same job. And YES Matthew --- on some lists of "RENEWABLES" --- Lightning is included..

 

[PMZ]

PMZ we need to focus on
1. Showing the economic benefits of "renewable" energy over the long term.
2. Health benefits

1#. Can be about the benefits of putting up solar or wind farms = little of the secondary maintenance cost after installation. How many trucks, drivers, train tracks and man hours does it take to get the fossil fuels compared to renewables??? I feel this must be part of the $$$ comparison.

2# Show how pollution from coal kills 10,000 people a year and/or dig up the article from China showing that coal pollution causes ; A. 5 less years of life in parts of China and B. Higher levels of cancer. Ask them if they believe that this isn't having affect on our society?

These are arguments worth using.

I agree. In fact, I think that the country should have always charged big oil for the military cost of protecting their supply.

In the future we should somehow charge all fossil fuels with the cost of mitigation and recovery from AGW fueled extreme weather and sea level rise.

Tax payers have to pay all of those costs anyway. Why not have them instead reflected in the cause.

 

[westwall]

I pray you are correct in your assessment. But are you prepared for the events, in case you are not?

Of course. Aren't you? More to the point... all evidence we have says that a warmer world is better than a cold one. I dare you to look up the historical record and look at what was going on in Europe and China during the Medieval Warm Period (which was 2.3-2.7 degrees C warmer where I live than the present temp is) and pay particular attention to the explosion in culture. All obtainable because agriculture was doing leaps and bounds better than it had been in the previous cold period.

Everything about AGW "theory" ignores factual data. The only way they can make their statements is by ignoring actual historical data.

If we were at the stage of an unoccupied planet, your argument might have relevance, but we're not. We're starting with a civilized planet crowded with people and their infrastructure. All of that was based on the climate that we've chosen to leave behind. How much will humanity and infrastructure have to change to adapt to a new climate?

Depends on how much we choose to change it.

Little to none. Read some history.

 

[daveman]

If the technologies were worth pushing and encouraging, there would be no need for government money.

Face it, either you guys have no seriously viably marketable product or you seriously stink at marketing. Or both.

Here's an example of how sustainable energy is attracting private money.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qwRYtiSbbVg&desktop_uri=/watch?v=qwRYtiSbbVg

Apparently you are not aware of the wind and solar plants going up all over?

I'm aware of them going up all over because of absurd subsidies.

You don't believe private businesses would pass up some free lunch, do you?

Green Business: Hi. We have a vaporware product that will turn a pound of feta cheese that's past its expiration date into 3.7 megawatts of electricity. As far as you know.

Federal Government:

 

[flacaltenn]

PMZ we need to focus on
1. Showing the economic benefits of "renewable" energy over the long term.
2. Health benefits

1#. Can be about the benefits of putting up solar or wind farms = little of the secondary maintenance cost after installation. How many trucks, drivers, train tracks and man hours does it take to get the fossil fuels compared to renewables??? I feel this must be part of the $$$ comparison.

2# Show how pollution from coal kills 10,000 people a year and/or dig up the article from China showing that coal pollution causes ; A. 5 less years of life in parts of China and B. Higher levels of cancer. Ask them if they believe that this isn't having affect on our society?

These are arguments worth using.

I agree. In fact, I think that the country should have always charged big oil for the military cost of protecting their supply.

In the future we should somehow charge all fossil fuels with the cost of mitigation and recovery from AGW fueled extreme weather and sea level rise.

Tax payers have to pay all of those costs anyway. Why not have them instead reflected in the cause.

As long as you include the "cost of the military" to protect and stabilize the sources of all those "Rare Earth" materials that wind and solar rely on for production as well.. Once you're producing a critical portion of the grid energy --- we'll be policing DIFFERENT parts of the world..

IN FACT --- a buried chain of news reports might explain why we're STILL in Afghanistan. Turns out --- that COUNTRY has been discovered to be a TREASURE CHEST of Rare Earth resources.. Seems like we've done some prospecting since we've been there...

 

[FactFinder]

We still talking about freaking warming in this category? OMG! How many years has it been now? Surely the topic could be moved onto something of relevance that man may be able to do some thing about!!!!!

We have been warming since the last ice age. Get over it. It is meant to be.

 

[daveman]

For example, the Republican plan, which proposes doing nothing about anything, is not a free lunch. It's a replica of the Bush plans that left us $17T in debt.

Obama has been in office for almost 5 years, but he thanks you for following your programming and not holding him responsible for anything.

 

[westwall]

That's underway now. Part is developing the sustainable products and part is the timing of fossil fuels inevitable march up the cost curve and part is predicting, or experiencing the extreme weather impact of AGW.

If we do nothing until sustainable energy is an economic imperative we will have missed the boat on profiting from the necessary changes. The biggest project ever undertaken by mankind.

If, instead, we play our cards wisely, we'll not only avoid the worst of the problems but harvest the most opportunity.

No, it's not underway now.

All that is underway are a relative few companies looking for a pile of government R&D grants, to try and produce something that may or may not pan out.

If any of your pipe dreams stood a snowball's chance, you'd have relatively little trouble attracting private R&D money. But they play their cards wisely.

Actually, it is underway now. There is little trouble attracting private money.

The government role is well beyond the capability of any company. The big picture. How all of the pieces done by corporations integrate into a functional whole. What technologies are maturing at the right rate and which need pushing and encouraging.

The delusion is strong with this one! Were it not for government handouts the "renewable companies" could be numbered on the fingers of both hands. Further, none of this is going to get you where you claim you want to be. You create more pollution with your "green" energy schemes than you clean up. Far more.

And, you hinder REAL technological advancement because you reward failure. You want leaps and bounds of technological advancement then look to what Tesla was studying before he died. That coupled with nuclear power, followed by fusion power when it becomes viable, will TRULY revolutionize the energy systems of the world. Yours never will.

 

[westwall]

Actually, it is underway now. There is little trouble attracting private money.

The government role is well beyond the capability of any company. The big picture. How all of the pieces done by corporations integrate into a functional whole. What technologies are maturing at the right rate and which need pushing and encouraging.

If the technologies were worth pushing and encouraging, there would be no need for government money.

Face it, either you guys have no seriously viably marketable product or you seriously stink at marketing. Or both.

Here's an example of how sustainable energy is attracting private money.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qwRYtiSbbVg&desktop_uri=/watch?v=qwRYtiSbbVg

Apparently you are not aware of the wind and solar plants going up all over?

That type of reactor was first designed in 1958 and to date none has ever been built. Gates is talking with China to try and get them to build it there because so far he has no takers anywhere else.

 

[westwall]

Actually, it is underway now. There is little trouble attracting private money.

The government role is well beyond the capability of any company. The big picture. How all of the pieces done by corporations integrate into a functional whole. What technologies are maturing at the right rate and which need pushing and encouraging.

The government role is well beyond the capability of any company.

The government role is well beyond any semblance of continuation of perpetuating its madness of do-all, be-all, and end-all everything at taxpayer's expense by the few criminals in Congress who insist on overextending OTHER PEOPLE'S debt. When they leave as multi-billionaires, they can move out of the country and get off scot-free, while our children have to scramble through life paying for all the money they charged to the people for their extravagant pet rock projects. It's just wrong and it's not fitting to strangle the future because Nancy Pelosi is a spendthrift idiot.

You appear to be absolutely and remarkably misinformed.

Nope. You're the poster boy for that state of being.

 

[freedombecki]

Actually, it is underway now. There is little trouble attracting private money.

The government role is well beyond the capability of any company. The big picture. How all of the pieces done by corporations integrate into a functional whole. What technologies are maturing at the right rate and which need pushing and encouraging.

The government role is well beyond the capability of any company.

The government role is well beyond any semblance of continuation of perpetuating its madness of do-all, be-all, and end-all everything at taxpayer's expense by the few criminals in Congress who insist on overextending OTHER PEOPLE'S debt. When they leave as multi-billionaires, they can move out of the country and get off scot-free, while our children have to scramble through life paying for all the money they charged to the people for their extravagant pet rock projects. It's just wrong and it's not fitting to strangle the future because Nancy Pelosi is a spendthrift idiot.

You appear to be absolutely and remarkably misinformed.

Projecting again?

~ zzzzzzzzzzz ~