Ever have a tube shoved up your nose and into your stomach?

[FA_Q2]

I was in the bed next to someone who had a tube inserted voluntarily a few years ago. Frankly, waterboarding sounds a lot less painful to me.

President Obama Won?t Just Close Gitmo, But Will He Stop the Torturing? - Hit & Run : Reason.com

I have not personally but my son has and I can tell you that the process was uncomfortable but not painful in any way. He required the tube inserted because he was unable to eat for a month. Other than getting angry because he did not want the tube (so this was involuntary as well I guess) and a sore throat for a few days there were no other side effects. The tube itself is easy to put in and remove and causes no discomfort other than having an annoying tube sticking out of your nose. It is a standard medical procedure requiring no pain meds or even a doctor. His was placed and removed by a nurse though I can tell you I almost removed the damn thing myself. I can imagine that they are rather angry at the fact because it is involuntary though.

I question the point here? If they go on a hunger strike until they die, who gives a shit? I sure do not. I do not want the government torturing people or detaining people they should not but these are actions of government that need to be overseen and controlled. Some need to be detained. Going on a hunger strike is there choice and I see no reason to try and limit it. If they want to kill themselves, oh well. At least they are not doing so with a bomb strapped to their chest around others that are innocent. We can only give them accommodations that are adequate for a POW, going further just seems silly to me.

He was cooperating, and swallowing, wasn't he? Imagine the same thing if he was incapable of swallowing, actively resisting, and did not want one.

I think the last part is why it is considered unethical. I guess Obama found some doctors that don't have ethical qualms, the same way Bush did.

Oh hell no he wasn’t. He was PISSED. You have to realize that he is only 6 years old. Sure, he understood that he needed to have one but that understanding fled his mind as soon as I pinned his head down and that tube touched his nose.

There is only so much cooperation that you are going to get from a child going through something like that. I feel bad for him because I have had to take away his free will over his own body several times – no child should go through that but it is what it is. Nothing I can do about that.

As far as ethical, I don’t really know tbh. They are doing so to keep them, alive but really, I don’t think they should bother. If the prisoners want to make a statement by starving themselves to death, fine. Why do we need to do things like this that even brings this to the ‘ethical’ question?

Further, if we made it clear that we don’t give a rat’s ass one way or the other, I think such things would end very quickly. People only go on a hunger strike to make a point when they know that you care whether or not they actually die. If you don’t give a shit, that strike is rather pointless.

 

[FA_Q2]

They were not arrested, they were captured during a war. Are we supposed to make up new crimes to charge people with just so you can pretend we are civilized?

Try them for what?

Try them for the acts of terrorism or war that they're being held for. Half the guys they have in Gitmo were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. We need to figure out who truly are the bad guys, separate and sentence them and move on. This hellish decade long purgatory we've sentenced these muslim men to is disgusting and unAmerican. This was one of the main things Obama ran on and it's dickless that he hasn't seen it through.

He never intended to "see it through". It is called "campaigning" - you know, what he mainly still does today.The problem with Gitmo is there is no real answer as to what to do. In previous wars enemy combatants were held until the war was over and released. Sometimes before.
The problem with today - the war on terror is not over, and who is to say when it would be.
One thing is almost 100% certain - return these people, and we will meet many of them again.

I don’t know about that. I think he was actually sincere in trying to shut down Gitmo. The problem is that many of the people there could quite possibly be innocent. We know this but there is simply nothing we can do about it. Others are guilty but lacking evidence as collection for trial is not exactly a strong skill in the military. Expecting military to have gathered and kept that kind of evidence is star eyed insanity. No country is willing to take them, they can’t come here so what do you do? Nothing. They can’t be tried as then there are going to end up in this country and when you don’t have the evidence to convict but you don’t actually know whether or not they are really guilty, you cant give them full access to Americans.

Really, if this were a normal war, we could simply wait till the conflict was over and give them back to the host nation. This is what happens though when you get in a war that has no end. You end up with people that may or may not be guilty but that have absolutely nowhere on earth that is willing to take them in as citizens.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I was in the bed next to someone who had a tube inserted voluntarily a few years ago. Frankly, waterboarding sounds a lot less painful to me.

yawn, bullshit. Had bronchoscopy .. tube into my lungs from my throat. Had endoscopy .. tube throat to wherever. Tubes up the nose? Please, what a bunch of alarmist hysteria.

Go to any nursing home or hospital and it is commonly done.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I was in the bed next to someone who had a tube inserted voluntarily a few years ago. Frankly, waterboarding sounds a lot less painful to me.

The U.S. military has been force-feeding some of the detainees, a practice described as torture by some of those previously subject to it. Today, the UN’s commissioner for human rights weighed in, his spokesperson saying that “if it's perceived as torture or inhuman treatment -- and it's the case, it's painful -- then it is prohibited by international law.” The stance, he explained, is based on a 1991 declaration by the World Medical Association that forced feeding is “never ethically acceptable.”
Will the Nobel Peace Prize winning president who promised the U.S. wouldn’t torture stop torturing? Or will he use his own definition of torture, as his predecessor George W. Bush did? Or will he and his apologists just ignore it, like every other promise broken and right violated by this president?

President Obama Won?t Just Close Gitmo, But Will He Stop the Torturing? - Hit & Run : Reason.com

Yeah I've had it done. While unpleasant it's not painful.
I'm sure there are chicks and some dudes who wouldnt have a problem with it.
It's that damned gag reflex that gets you.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I was in the bed next to someone who had a tube inserted voluntarily a few years ago. Frankly, waterboarding sounds a lot less painful to me.

The U.S. military has been force-feeding some of the detainees, a practice described as torture by some of those previously subject to it. Today, the UN’s commissioner for human rights weighed in, his spokesperson saying that “if it's perceived as torture or inhuman treatment -- and it's the case, it's painful -- then it is prohibited by international law.” The stance, he explained, is based on a 1991 declaration by the World Medical Association that forced feeding is “never ethically acceptable.”
Will the Nobel Peace Prize winning president who promised the U.S. wouldn’t torture stop torturing? Or will he use his own definition of torture, as his predecessor George W. Bush did? Or will he and his apologists just ignore it, like every other promise broken and right violated by this president?

President Obama Won?t Just Close Gitmo, But Will He Stop the Torturing? - Hit & Run : Reason.com

Yeah I've had it done. While unpleasant it's not painful.
I'm sure there are chicks and some dudes who wouldnt have a problem with it.
It's that damned gag reflex that gets you.

Simple question, was it done with, or without, your consent?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

fuck consent when you are a prisoner or detainee who has forfeited some rights

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I was in the bed next to someone who had a tube inserted voluntarily a few years ago. Frankly, waterboarding sounds a lot less painful to me.

President Obama Won?t Just Close Gitmo, But Will He Stop the Torturing? - Hit & Run : Reason.com

Yeah I've had it done. While unpleasant it's not painful.
I'm sure there are chicks and some dudes who wouldnt have a problem with it.
It's that damned gag reflex that gets you.

Simple question, was it done with, or without, your consent?

Thats not a simple question....it's a stupid one.

 

[9thIDdoc]

Ever have a tube shoved up your nose and into your stomach?

Sure and it ain't no big deal.
Execute any remaining residents of Gitmo. We can't afford trials or continued feeding. Tough, but we gotta cut back somewhere.

 

[candycorn]

We do it dozens of times a day in our hospitals; never a problem. OP has shit for brains.

 

[francoHFW]

Shit for brains? That would be the Pub Propaganda Machine, Pubs, and the dupes...The arrogance, hypocrisy, hate, and stupidity

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

waterboarding is not torture. the boston bomber should be waterboarded with cat urine.

Pig urine would be more appropriate. With a little pig feces blended in for good measure.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

They were not arrested, they were captured during a war. Are we supposed to make up new crimes to charge people with just so you can pretend we are civilized?

Try them for what?

Try them for the acts of terrorism or war that they're being held for. Half the guys they have in Gitmo were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. We need to figure out who truly are the bad guys, separate and sentence them and move on. This hellish decade long purgatory we've sentenced these muslim men to is disgusting and unAmerican. This was one of the main things Obama ran on and it's dickless that he hasn't seen it through.

War is not a crime unless you are a citizen and engage in armed rebellion, stop pretending it is. Obama does not want to try them because he understands this, he also does not want to let them go. He just wants to tuck everyone away someplace where he can pretend we did the right thing. I prefer them out in the open so we know exactly what we are doing.

The type of war they waged is illegal. The Geneva convention doesnt cover terrorist and none uniformed troops. We could put them against the wall and shoot em and be well within our rights.
What the hell does this mean?
" I prefer them out in the open so we know exactly what we are doing."

 

[rdean]

I was in the bed next to someone who had a tube inserted voluntarily a few years ago. Frankly, waterboarding sounds a lot less painful to me.

The U.S. military has been force-feeding some of the detainees, a practice described as torture by some of those previously subject to it. Today, the UN’s commissioner for human rights weighed in, his spokesperson saying that “if it's perceived as torture or inhuman treatment -- and it's the case, it's painful -- then it is prohibited by international law.” The stance, he explained, is based on a 1991 declaration by the World Medical Association that forced feeding is “never ethically acceptable.”
Will the Nobel Peace Prize winning president who promised the U.S. wouldn’t torture stop torturing? Or will he use his own definition of torture, as his predecessor George W. Bush did? Or will he and his apologists just ignore it, like every other promise broken and right violated by this president?

President Obama Won?t Just Close Gitmo, But Will He Stop the Torturing? - Hit & Run : Reason.com

What waterboarding a conservative looks like. He made fun of it too, just like you. Then he changed his mind. Something you don't have.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I was in the bed next to someone who had a tube inserted voluntarily a few years ago. Frankly, waterboarding sounds a lot less painful to me.

President Obama Won?t Just Close Gitmo, But Will He Stop the Torturing? - Hit & Run : Reason.com

I have not personally but my son has and I can tell you that the process was uncomfortable but not painful in any way. He required the tube inserted because he was unable to eat for a month. Other than getting angry because he did not want the tube (so this was involuntary as well I guess) and a sore throat for a few days there were no other side effects. The tube itself is easy to put in and remove and causes no discomfort other than having an annoying tube sticking out of your nose. It is a standard medical procedure requiring no pain meds or even a doctor. His was placed and removed by a nurse though I can tell you I almost removed the damn thing myself. I can imagine that they are rather angry at the fact because it is involuntary though.

I question the point here? If they go on a hunger strike until they die, who gives a shit? I sure do not. I do not want the government torturing people or detaining people they should not but these are actions of government that need to be overseen and controlled. Some need to be detained. Going on a hunger strike is there choice and I see no reason to try and limit it. If they want to kill themselves, oh well. At least they are not doing so with a bomb strapped to their chest around others that are innocent. We can only give them accommodations that are adequate for a POW, going further just seems silly to me.

He was cooperating, and swallowing, wasn't he? Imagine the same thing if he was incapable of swallowing, actively resisting, and did not want one.

I think the last part is why it is considered unethical. I guess Obama found some doctors that don't have ethical qualms, the same way Bush did.

Have you had this procedure done?
No? Then STFU you dont know what your talking about.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

fuck consent when you are a prisoner or detainee who has forfeited some rights

Even the right to refuse medical treatment? I am pretty sure that no court has ever said that prisoners have to accept life saving operations that do not involve force feeding, what makes force feeding different?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Yeah I've had it done. While unpleasant it's not painful.
I'm sure there are chicks and some dudes who wouldnt have a problem with it.
It's that damned gag reflex that gets you.

Simple question, was it done with, or without, your consent?

Thats not a simple question....it's a stupid one.

Imagine the same procedure if you are tied to a bed, resisting the the attempt to hold your head steady, and refusing to swallow when the tube reaches your esophagus.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

We do it dozens of times a day in our hospitals; never a problem. OP has shit for brains.

You cannot find a single hospital in the US that force feeds anyone that is legally competent. It is a violation of ethical standards of the AMA, and actually is covered by WMA Declaration of Tokyo - Guidelines for Physicians Concerning Torture and other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment in Relation to Detention and Imprisonment, which was issued in 1975.

Where a prisoner refuses nourishment and is considered by the physician as capable of forming an unimpaired and rational judgment concerning the consequences of such a voluntary refusal of nourishment, he or she shall not be fed artificially. The decision as to the capacity of the prisoner to form such a judgment should be confirmed by at least one other independent physician. The consequences of the refusal of nourishment shall be explained by the physician to the prisoner.

WMA Declaration of Tokyo - Guidelines for Physicians Concerning Torture and other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment in Relation to Detention and Imprisonment

Don't worry though, I am an idiot.

By the way, I actually opposed water boarding on this board, and have flat out said I do not want the government to be able to use any form of torture, even if it will save lives. That means that I am being intellectually consistent.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Try them for the acts of terrorism or war that they're being held for. Half the guys they have in Gitmo were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. We need to figure out who truly are the bad guys, separate and sentence them and move on. This hellish decade long purgatory we've sentenced these muslim men to is disgusting and unAmerican. This was one of the main things Obama ran on and it's dickless that he hasn't seen it through.

War is not a crime unless you are a citizen and engage in armed rebellion, stop pretending it is. Obama does not want to try them because he understands this, he also does not want to let them go. He just wants to tuck everyone away someplace where he can pretend we did the right thing. I prefer them out in the open so we know exactly what we are doing.

The type of war they waged is illegal. The Geneva convention doesnt cover terrorist and none uniformed troops. We could put them against the wall and shoot em and be well within our rights.
What the hell does this mean?
" I prefer them out in the open so we know exactly what we are doing."

The people at Gitmo were captured on the battlefield, not arrested in the US. Under the Geneva convention, we cannot arbitrarily execute anyone but spies. I suppose a brain dead idiot might try to make a case that, since they were not in uniform, they were spies, but that would require us to point out which uniform they are supposed to be wearing.

 

[buckeye45_73]

I was in the bed next to someone who had a tube inserted voluntarily a few years ago. Frankly, waterboarding sounds a lot less painful to me.

The U.S. military has been force-feeding some of the detainees, a practice described as torture by some of those previously subject to it. Today, the UN’s commissioner for human rights weighed in, his spokesperson saying that “if it's perceived as torture or inhuman treatment -- and it's the case, it's painful -- then it is prohibited by international law.” The stance, he explained, is based on a 1991 declaration by the World Medical Association that forced feeding is “never ethically acceptable.”
Will the Nobel Peace Prize winning president who promised the U.S. wouldn’t torture stop torturing? Or will he use his own definition of torture, as his predecessor George W. Bush did? Or will he and his apologists just ignore it, like every other promise broken and right violated by this president?

President Obama Won?t Just Close Gitmo, But Will He Stop the Torturing? - Hit & Run : Reason.com

What waterboarding a conservative looks like. He made fun of it too, just like you. Then he changed his mind. Something you don't have.

You never had a mind to begin with......it's not supposed to feel good dumbass......I love liberals we'll interogate them by giving them hugs......

Ok maybe we can send sheilia jackson lee to talk to them.....wait that would be torture........I doubt anyone could stand that stupidity for 16 seconds

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I was in the bed next to someone who had a tube inserted voluntarily a few years ago. Frankly, waterboarding sounds a lot less painful to me.

The U.S. military has been force-feeding some of the detainees, a practice described as torture by some of those previously subject to it. Today, the UN’s commissioner for human rights weighed in, his spokesperson saying that “if it's perceived as torture or inhuman treatment -- and it's the case, it's painful -- then it is prohibited by international law.” The stance, he explained, is based on a 1991 declaration by the World Medical Association that forced feeding is “never ethically acceptable.”
Will the Nobel Peace Prize winning president who promised the U.S. wouldn’t torture stop torturing? Or will he use his own definition of torture, as his predecessor George W. Bush did? Or will he and his apologists just ignore it, like every other promise broken and right violated by this president?

President Obama Won?t Just Close Gitmo, But Will He Stop the Torturing? - Hit & Run : Reason.com

What waterboarding a conservative looks like. He made fun of it too, just like you. Then he changed his mind. Something you don't have.

You are 100% correct, I will not change my mind about water boarding, I oppose the government torturing anyone, even people on hunger strikes.