Explain to us Libs, what is a living wage?

[Cecilie1200]

The problem is not with those amassing great wealth.

The problem comes when those with great wealth use that wealth to influence elected officials to get things to go their way effectively rendering your and my vote virtually meaningless.

Removing the influence of large political contributions....Great concept.
Question is, how do we get there while taking care to protect the First Amendment right to freedom of speech.
Fine line, don't you think?

Supply and demand. If you can't influence one, influence the other. If you can't legally stop people from contributing money to politicians, make the politicians less valuable so they won't WANT to contribute as much. Slap some hard limits on the amount of federal largesse politicians get to distribute to their donors.

 

[Cecilie1200]

"The American dream is achieving your ambitions through your own hard work."

What a crock of trash this overused line is. The american dream is getting a job, making ends meet, and finding a little extra money for an ice cold beer now and then. Achieving your ambitions, all this rah rah rah bs is hilarious. Kids need to be taught what the real world is about. Getting an education, going deep in debt to get it. Then getting a job. Barely making ends meet. Hopefully living long enough to retire. Everyone wants to be rich. The reality is you are highly unlikely to become rich even if you work 5 jobs at a time. Hard work is good yes but we shouldnt be using this american dream crapola on our youth. It isnt realistic.

You'll excuse me if I'm not raising my children to be a negative, bitter, failed piece of shit like you.

You don't want to have ambitions? Fine. You don't want to bother working for anything more than a roof over your head and some beer? Great. But don't try to tell other people they have to be sad sacks like you.

I didn't go "deep in debt" for my education. Most of it is self-acquired, similar to our Founding Fathers. My husband didn't go "deep in debt" for his education, and he's the one with an actual degree. He got a job and paid for his classes. Took longer, but made life easier in the long run. Most of my other family members either did hitches in the military and got their educations that way, or went to trade schools and then paid for individual college classes in subjects that interested them out of their own pockets.

Why the fuck would you settle for, much less aspire to, "barely making ends meet?"

 

[Cecilie1200]

In some cases I'm sure that happens. But in most cases, the employer is in business to make money and, if you can keep the unions and meddlers out of it, the productive employee is noticed and rewarded because he is making more money for his employer. Most of my life when working for the other guy, I have had bosses who appreciated and rewarded good work. I have been the boss and I definitely noticed, appreciated, and rewarded good work.

And I have worked for some assholes but never longer than I absolutely had to before I moved on to something else.

It has been my observation, however, that the business run by the asshole generally does not prosper as much as the business run by those who utilize good stewardship of their assets which would include hard working productive employees.

Actually, quite a few of the people running the local branch of the business I contract with ARE assholes. Doesn't mean they aren't still able to recognize and appreciate those who work hard and make them more money.

Several of my fellow couriers bitch about how little some deliveries pay (each client has a price schedule individually negotiated for them when they contract with the company) and refuse to do them. I'm the one who recognizes and understands that 1) the deliveries have to be made, regardless, 2) the dispatcher has no control over the prices, and 3) he's going to make an effort to make it up to me if I do the job without complaining. And he always does. When a slow day shows up, guess which driver gets all of the $15-20 "emergency" runs while the others sit and wait? The complainers get stuck with a $5 Salibas run out to Oro Valley, and that's all they get. When I get a $5 Salibas run to Oro Valley, I ALSO get three or four other deliveries on the way, and one coming back.

Believe me, hard work is still appreciated, and even by assholes.

Ahh the courier business. Me too. 1984 and '85....Started at 5 bucks an hour.
I drove a company owned van. After a few months of making crap money, I saw that the contract guys were making more money. I went to the owner and told him that if he paid me per run with the company owned van, I'd produce twice as much as the contract guys.
I knew I had a leg up because I knew the contract drivers would blow off runs. I told him, I'd take these crap jobs. He went for it. I made three times the money. But it was real hectic. Most of it was cris crossing the NY Metro area. Wow! What a nightmare. But the money was good. I could have stuck around and been managing the place in a year or so.
But I hated the people that worked in the office and they disliked me. I guess because the owner and I were pretty tight. I made him some good money.
Oh well.

I really enjoy jobs with a minimum of supervision, or even contact with co-workers. And I like jobs that pay according to how much time and effort I want to put into it, rather than a set salary or hourly wage. One of those life choices everyone keeps talking about.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The problem is not with those amassing great wealth.

The problem comes when those with great wealth use that wealth to influence elected officials to get things to go their way effectively rendering your and my vote virtually meaningless.

Well, then, your problem isn't with the people who assess the existing system and then work it to benefit themselves. Your problem is with the system itself, aka the elected officials and the government they work in. You think protesters like the OWS fools aren't working the exact same system from a different angle, ie. the crowd of noisy wheels get the grease?

Yup. If those we elect to high office could not be bought, then the wealthy wouldn't be able to buy influence would they?

Again I wonder how many of those who think the rich should be much less rich would settle for a system in which Congress wasn't allowed to dispense the people's money to ANYBODY unless they dispensed it equally to everybody? In other words, Congress would be prevented from giving out any form of charity or benevolence to anybody?

THAT would solve the problem. But somehow, I think those who resent the rich wouldn't go for it. What do you think?

Of course. They aren't pissed that people are profiting off of the government. They're pissed that people OTHER THAN THEM are profiting off the government.

 

[thereisnospoon]

"The American dream is achieving your ambitions through your own hard work."

What a crock of trash this overused line is. The american dream is getting a job, making ends meet, and finding a little extra money for an ice cold beer now and then. Achieving your ambitions, all this rah rah rah bs is hilarious. Kids need to be taught what the real world is about. Getting an education, going deep in debt to get it. Then getting a job. Barely making ends meet. Hopefully living long enough to retire. Everyone wants to be rich. The reality is you are highly unlikely to become rich even if you work 5 jobs at a time. Hard work is good yes but we shouldnt be using this american dream crapola on our youth. It isnt realistic.

You'll excuse me if I'm not raising my children to be a negative, bitter, failed piece of shit like you.

You don't want to have ambitions? Fine. You don't want to bother working for anything more than a roof over your head and some beer? Great. But don't try to tell other people they have to be sad sacks like you.

I didn't go "deep in debt" for my education. Most of it is self-acquired, similar to our Founding Fathers. My husband didn't go "deep in debt" for his education, and he's the one with an actual degree. He got a job and paid for his classes. Took longer, but made life easier in the long run. Most of my other family members either did hitches in the military and got their educations that way, or went to trade schools and then paid for individual college classes in subjects that interested them out of their own pockets.

Why the fuck would you settle for, much less aspire to, "barely making ends meet?"

Because it is easier to bitch and moan about what one doesn't have, accuse others of taking from them what they believe is due them and of course scheming to take from others and give to themselves.
The Lib/Progressive agenda is based on safety nets. Safety in encouraging government to provide for them. Safety in not having to take responsibility for themselves. Safety in the midst of a group.

 

[pgm]

Very true. Many people go off to college, thinking it's all about having fun and taking classes that they like, and just assume "a college degree" guarantees that they're employable afterward. They never give any thought to whether what they're studying is USEFUL to anyone else, or think to look at the job market and find out if it's already glutted with people with the same degree.

I can't count the number of college students I've talked to, asked what they're majoring in, then said, "With an eye toward doing what when you graduate?" and had them look at me blankly as though I just lasped into Esperanto or something.

So, one should not listen to my school's admissions director. He said that students should study their interests in the theory that many people graduate college and work in a different field from their major (I think he may have studied Latin or something like that).

 

[Foxfyre]

Very true. Many people go off to college, thinking it's all about having fun and taking classes that they like, and just assume "a college degree" guarantees that they're employable afterward. They never give any thought to whether what they're studying is USEFUL to anyone else, or think to look at the job market and find out if it's already glutted with people with the same degree.

I can't count the number of college students I've talked to, asked what they're majoring in, then said, "With an eye toward doing what when you graduate?" and had them look at me blankly as though I just lasped into Esperanto or something.

So, one should not listen to my school's admissions director. He said that students should study their interests in the theory that many people graduate college and work in a different field from their major (I think he may have studied Latin or something like that).

My philosophy is that you major in something marketable and then your are free to minor in anything wherever your heart leads you. My son for instance wanted to be a music major but didn't want to teach full time. So he had a degree in mechanical engineering that he enjoys and has supported him quite nicely, and he minored in music that is his avocation and the love of his life, but doesn't bring in a lot of money.

The important thing is, if you want to live the American dream, you must acquire a skill set that somebody is willing to pay for at the level at which you can be happy. You do that by getting the necessary diploma, but also by apprenticing yourself in the field you want to work. A lot of us acquired our marketable skills that way. It didn't pay much at the time, but paid off in the long run.

 

[DiamondDave]

I had to work my way up, without a college degree, by making proper choices, learning, gaining experience, not buying everything I wanted, skipping meals, etc.

Here it is, folks. The conservative wing-nuts believe that the poor have an obligation to be poor and hungry.

The poor have an obligation to do what they have to to make their own lives better, rather than expecting someone else to do it for them. Life frequently sucks.

People like Stupid cannot fathom sacrifice for getting to where you want or need to be.. whining is much easier... as well as jumping to conclusions

 

[JRK]

Great discussion here. I see allot of people feel that the pay should reflect the effort and commitment. I see one of the ideas that Cain has is to eliminate the minimum wage
Again I feel the minimum wage is way to low, As conservative as I am trying to convince that 7.25 an hour is a living wage, any where.
I have stated that 13.00 an hour is close. 11.00 would be only 22880 a year. Cain has some great ideas, but if we go to 13.00 or 520 a week and tax it 9% its a win-win for all of us, my opinion

 

[Bern80]

"The American dream is achieving your ambitions through your own hard work."

What a crock of trash this overused line is. The american dream is getting a job, making ends meet, and finding a little extra money for an ice cold beer now and then. Achieving your ambitions, all this rah rah rah bs is hilarious. Kids need to be taught what the real world is about. Getting an education, going deep in debt to get it. Then getting a job. Barely making ends meet. Hopefully living long enough to retire. Everyone wants to be rich. The reality is you are highly unlikely to become rich even if you work 5 jobs at a time. Hard work is good yes but we shouldnt be using this american dream crapola on our youth. It isnt realistic.

Cynics like you will never achieve shit. People like you simply do not get it. Success in terms of making lots of money isn't about how hard you work. If the five jobs you work are all flipping burgers, no shit you're not gonna make money. The real world? The real world is full of idiots like you who won't hold themselves accountable for their outcomes. If kids should be taught anything it's that people like you are an example of how NOT to think about life. People like you need to be held up as an example of the attitude of a failure.

You're board nick name is rather interesting. You're in it for you, huh? Doesn't seem to me you're 'in' much of anything. If you're not in for you, why the fuck should anyone else be in it for you?

 

[Bern80]

Great discussion here. I see allot of people feel that the pay should reflect the effort and commitment. I see one of the ideas that Cain has is to eliminate the minimum wage
Again I feel the minimum wage is way to low, As conservative as I am trying to convince that 7.25 an hour is a living wage, any where.
I have stated that 13.00 an hour is close. 11.00 would be only 22880 a year. Cain has some great ideas, but if we go to 13.00 or 520 a week and tax it 9% its a win-win for all of us, my opinion

Such a position ignores one of the points of the discussion though. The only reason to consider raising the min wage is if you buy into the premise that EVERYONE should make enough to get buy on. That premise fails for a variety of reasons. 1) Not everyone needs to be paid enough to live on. 2) It presumes that people are compensated based on what they need, not based on their value.

 

[JRK]

Great discussion here. I see allot of people feel that the pay should reflect the effort and commitment. I see one of the ideas that Cain has is to eliminate the minimum wage
Again I feel the minimum wage is way to low, As conservative as I am trying to convince that 7.25 an hour is a living wage, any where.
I have stated that 13.00 an hour is close. 11.00 would be only 22880 a year. Cain has some great ideas, but if we go to 13.00 or 520 a week and tax it 9% its a win-win for all of us, my opinion

Such a position ignores one of the points of the discussion though. The only reason to consider raising the min wage is if you buy into the premise that EVERYONE should make enough to get buy on. That premise fails for a variety of reasons. 1) Not everyone needs to be paid enough to live on. 2) It presumes that people are compensated based on what they need, not based on their value.

I work 100s of people yearly. If a person gives 100% to the my bottom line, his/her value should be rewarded with that wage. If not he/she will be shown the door

 

[Mr Natural]

A living wage?

Enough so the 47% of Americans making it can pay taxes and shut up those of the other 53% who say they don't.

 

[editec]

A living wage?

Enough so the 47% of Americans making it can pay taxes and shut up those of the other 53% who say they don't.

Beautifully done, Mr. C.

 

[DiamondDave]

A living wage?

Enough so the 47% of Americans making it can pay taxes and shut up those of the other 53% who say they don't.

Beautifully done, Mr. C.

And what law is preventing their freedom to do whatever they have to do to make such an amount??

Are they not free to work more, train, learn, choose a company, put forth effort, etc??

Or, like so many more of your ilk, do you think it should be just given to them no matter what they do??

 

[editec]

A living wage?

Enough so the 47% of Americans making it can pay taxes and shut up those of the other 53% who say they don't.

Beautifully done, Mr. C.

And what law is preventing their freedom to do whatever they have to do to make such an amount??

Are they not free to work more, train, learn, choose a company, put forth effort, etc??

Or, like so many more of your ilk, do you think it should be just given to them no matter what they do??

LOL!

Yeah, just keep digging that hole deeper, Lad.

 

[DiamondDave]

Beautifully done, Mr. C.

And what law is preventing their freedom to do whatever they have to do to make such an amount??

Are they not free to work more, train, learn, choose a company, put forth effort, etc??

Or, like so many more of your ilk, do you think it should be just given to them no matter what they do??

LOL!

Yeah, just keep digging that hole deeper, Lad.

Can't answer the questions?

 

[Bern80]

Great discussion here. I see allot of people feel that the pay should reflect the effort and commitment. I see one of the ideas that Cain has is to eliminate the minimum wage
Again I feel the minimum wage is way to low, As conservative as I am trying to convince that 7.25 an hour is a living wage, any where.
I have stated that 13.00 an hour is close. 11.00 would be only 22880 a year. Cain has some great ideas, but if we go to 13.00 or 520 a week and tax it 9% its a win-win for all of us, my opinion

Such a position ignores one of the points of the discussion though. The only reason to consider raising the min wage is if you buy into the premise that EVERYONE should make enough to get buy on. That premise fails for a variety of reasons. 1) Not everyone needs to be paid enough to live on. 2) It presumes that people are compensated based on what they need, not based on their value.

I work 100s of people yearly. If a person gives 100% to the my bottom line, his/her value should be rewarded with that wage. If not he/she will be shown the door

Which is your prerogative to do. It doesn't mean we need a law requiring that everyone else do it. Again one of the main reasons not to mandate a living wage is because a lot of people simply don't need it. There is a decent chunk of the workforce made up of teenagers who's parents are providing for their needs, people who take an extra part time job for a little extra money, or spouses supplmenting household incomes. You start making all those companies that pay lower than what a person can live on a living wage and the unemployment rate among that class of jobs goes up. And it goes up needlessly because the people working those jobs didn't really need what you were seeking to provide in the first place.

 

[kwc57]

"The American dream is achieving your ambitions through your own hard work."

What a crock of trash this overused line is. The american dream is getting a job, making ends meet, and finding a little extra money for an ice cold beer now and then. Achieving your ambitions, all this rah rah rah bs is hilarious. Kids need to be taught what the real world is about. Getting an education, going deep in debt to get it. Then getting a job. Barely making ends meet. Hopefully living long enough to retire. Everyone wants to be rich. The reality is you are highly unlikely to become rich even if you work 5 jobs at a time. Hard work is good yes but we shouldnt be using this american dream crapola on our youth. It isnt realistic.

It's slackers like you who can't seem to get my pizza delivered on time.

 

[kwc57]

I'm gonna go make chicken fried steak, mashed potatoes, creamed gravy, and a nice salad and enjoy the opening game of the World Series. Later all.

Chicken fried? You must be poor. Which means you must be jealous of those who can afford NY strip.

Go eat your tofu and greens comrade and shut the fuck up.