Factors that have made this country so darn divided

[Rustic]

They demand record low tax rates while maintaining the same services

.......AND fighting useless, deadly and costly wars....just ask Cheney.

Pocket change compared to socialist entitlement programs.

 

[ptbw forever]

By this time tomorrow, we can all safely state that we have "dodged a bullet" in rejecting the Trumpster...of that many of us have no doubt.

But what has made this country so divided, as many right wingers on this microcosm of a forum clearly shows?
I have lived through the turbulent 1960s, felt heartbroken over the many assassinations of our leaders, and have marched against useless and bloody wars that costs us so many lives and treasure. Yet, the meanness that this forum has often shown is unprecedented.

For myself, I "blame" 3 factors that in my long life seem to have precipitated this huge division among our fellow Americans:

1. The proliferation of social media, coupled with the anonymity that such media allow, has given a "voice" to the most strident fringe of our electorate.

2. The whole impeachment process of Bill Clinton also showed us how vengeful politics have become (and I'm not exempt form this because I would readily admit that I simply hated the GWB administration.)

3. Most of all I blame the factor that a mere 16 years ago, we had to have a supreme court appoint a president for us, where a cabal of just 5 people told us who would lead us .

I'm not even going to bring out that the Obama election also brought out the latent racism that fermented in some people hearts, since I believe that many who resented Obama were not necessarily racists, although many certainly were and are.

I sincerely hope that Wednesday we will witness a peaceful transfer of power; a factor that has made us great as a country and as a paragon of how other countries should behave in the political arena; sure there will be disappointments and bitterness in many minds that wanted a different direction for our country...but, once the electorate has spoken in a majority voice, the results MUST be accepted.

Let me offer my perspective.

1. First was the rise of talk radio which started to take off in the very same year that GHWB took office. I started listening to it in 1993 and couldn't believe the sheer nonsense being passed off as erudition. And since controversy gets attention, the hosts of these shows were often not motivated by anything more than high ratings and money. Therefore, it shouldn't have surprised anyone that the truth was sacrificed in the process.

2. The rise of Newt Gingrich and his hyperbolic and destructive statements which lowered the level of discourse while also raising the volume of people speaking past each other instead of to one another in an effort to score political points while winning nothing in the process except increasing division and resentment.

3. The fact that elected representatives stopped living in Washington and interacting with each other. Instead, they left to go back to their districts every weekend and consequently didn't have much in the way of any meaningful personal relationships with members of the opposing political parties.

4. While both parties shifted right over the years, both parties increasingly lost the moderate middle (conservative Democrats and moderate Republicans) who could ultimately be counted on to come together to make deals when the more extreme wings of each party were unable to work together. This ultimately led to the nonsensical notion that compromise was a bad thing. That only led to increasing gridlock which frustrated everyone, none more than the American electorate itself.
(As an aside, I once heard a conservative say that he would not compromise with Democrats. Instead, Democrats would have to compromise with him. That's truly a nonsensical statement if I ever heard one.)

5. The rise of social media which too often pushed paranoid conspiracy theories which some politicians were too often willing to exploit to get the base to the polls in election years.

6. The fact that conservative talk radio hosts eventually turned on the leadership of the Republican Party when they were unable to live up to an absolutist all-or-nothing approach to governance.

Enter Trump...

You say it is nonsensical to expect Democrats to compromise with Conservatives while Conservatives don't compromise, but yet your entire post is trying to pressure Conservatives into doing the opposite with your ridiculous claims of extremism coming from the right.

Social media is what created the Bernie movement by the way.

 

[Redfish]

They demand record low tax rates while maintaining the same services

.......AND fighting useless, deadly and costly wars....just ask Cheney.

better include Kennedy and Johnson in that. 58,000 americans died for nothing in their viet nam fiasco.

 

[Redfish]

By this time tomorrow, we can all safely state that we have "dodged a bullet" in rejecting the Trumpster...of that many of us have no doubt.

But what has made this country so divided, as many right wingers on this microcosm of a forum clearly shows?
I have lived through the turbulent 1960s, felt heartbroken over the many assassinations of our leaders, and have marched against useless and bloody wars that costs us so many lives and treasure. Yet, the meanness that this forum has often shown is unprecedented.

For myself, I "blame" 3 factors that in my long life seem to have precipitated this huge division among our fellow Americans:

1. The proliferation of social media, coupled with the anonymity that such media allow, has given a "voice" to the most strident fringe of our electorate.

2. The whole impeachment process of Bill Clinton also showed us how vengeful politics have become (and I'm not exempt form this because I would readily admit that I simply hated the GWB administration.)

3. Most of all I blame the factor that a mere 16 years ago, we had to have a supreme court appoint a president for us, where a cabal of just 5 people told us who would lead us .

I'm not even going to bring out that the Obama election also brought out the latent racism that fermented in some people hearts, since I believe that many who resented Obama were not necessarily racists, although many certainly were and are.

I sincerely hope that Wednesday we will witness a peaceful transfer of power; a factor that has made us great as a country and as a paragon of how other countries should behave in the political arena; sure there will be disappointments and bitterness in many minds that wanted a different direction for our country...but, once the electorate has spoken in a majority voice, the results MUST be accepted.

Trump and Bernie both voiced legitimate resentments held by middle and working class Americans.

The nature of man is such that fear brings out the worst in us. A factory closing sends massive waves of distress and hardship through a community, people worry about how they will provide, feed their kids -- xenophobia, bigotry or some version of blaming the 'other' kicks in and people refuse to look at all the factors. People refuse to look at their own choices and actions that led to their life outcomes. Coal miners refused to see the writing on the wall. Detroit Auto workers negotiated unsustainable contracts. Unions are great when they protect workers from abuses, but when they burden a company to the point of driving to outsource labor, the factory closes.

These same people will go to Walmart and buy low-priced goods on credit, never asking how is it possible. If you have 10-20K in credit card debt and your job goes away or your health insurance premiums go up, you're stressed, full of fear about the future. You want to blame someone. I get it. And Trump's raw undisciplined approach fueled that fire. It probably made it worse that the other side called you stupid for not seeing how totally unqualified Trump was. Sorry, we can't help it. Educated people think we know better.

Companies set up operations in Mexico or overseas and their profits go up--they pay out higher dividends to stock holders. The investor class has gotten rich off the polices of Reagan and Bill Clinton. Donald Trump voiced this, and hitting Ford with an import tariff seems like a good solution. Punish Ford for closing factories here, putting people out of work. Meanwhile, the Ford stockholders are hurt as are consumers looking to buy a Ford, the Ford dealers can't move overpriced inventory. Ford pushes back and lobbies political pressure to return to polices that keep them competitive--so money flows into another election and we're right back where we started.

How much would an iPhone cost if it were produced here by a union or non-union American worker with full benefits and a pension? How much would Apple pay out quarterly to investors if they had to manufacture their tech products in American factories? There's a reason for lines outside Apple stores and popularity of their products. Every American employed in the sale, distribution, support of the products benefits as do the Apple investors. But very few low-skilled American labors are being employed to assemble their products in factories because Apple can keep production costs down making iPhones overseas. Capitalism, free and open markets. We voted for this moving away from the post-WW II policies of high taxes on the wealthy investor class, tariffs on imports, and promotion and propping up of the American working class toward a lower taxes, free trade, trickle down, pass the savings on to the consumer--cheaper goods in abundance.

The GOP has been the conservative party that believed in free market capitalism--innovation, growth, competition. The Dems have only been a moderate check on that. Neither stood in the way of free trade and open borders.

Decades of policies have benefited some and hurt others. Those hurt or feel hurt or that life has been unfair because the game was "rigged" believe they are sending a message.

Americans need to accept that our government is an extension of their will. Factories closed because consumers wanted cheaper goods, investors wanted higher dividends--we wanted more for less. Also, keep in mind that while we were gutting our manufacturing sector, the conservative agenda promoted an aggressive anti-abortion and birth control agenda. Less jobs, more people. The national debt is not the fault of our government (as if they are a separate entity)--it is on us. We did this to ourselves. People don't like to say that out loud. They'd rather blame the 'other'.

No, career politicians and their federal government are 100% the reason for the national debt. Fact
In the relationship between the career politician and the union is incestuous at best.

Selfish and lazy voters are the reason we have so much debt

They demand record low tax rates while maintaining the same services

Lol
Taxes have never made any country great...
Such things are 100% abused

Of course taxes made our country great....what do you think paid for it?

Roads, bridges, harbors, airports, medical research, our military, our schools, security, safe food and water, environmental protection.........

if only all that tax money went for those things instead of into the pockets of politicians lobgbyists and their cronies.

 

[Redfish]

They demand record low tax rates while maintaining the same services

.......AND fighting useless, deadly and costly wars....just ask Cheney.

Who else would start two wars and cut taxes to pay for them?

Kennedy and Johnson.

 

[Redfish]

By this time tomorrow, we can all safely state that we have "dodged a bullet" in rejecting the Trumpster...of that many of us have no doubt.

But what has made this country so divided, as many right wingers on this microcosm of a forum clearly shows?
I have lived through the turbulent 1960s, felt heartbroken over the many assassinations of our leaders, and have marched against useless and bloody wars that costs us so many lives and treasure. Yet, the meanness that this forum has often shown is unprecedented.

For myself, I "blame" 3 factors that in my long life seem to have precipitated this huge division among our fellow Americans:

1. The proliferation of social media, coupled with the anonymity that such media allow, has given a "voice" to the most strident fringe of our electorate.

2. The whole impeachment process of Bill Clinton also showed us how vengeful politics have become (and I'm not exempt form this because I would readily admit that I simply hated the GWB administration.)

3. Most of all I blame the factor that a mere 16 years ago, we had to have a supreme court appoint a president for us, where a cabal of just 5 people told us who would lead us .

I'm not even going to bring out that the Obama election also brought out the latent racism that fermented in some people hearts, since I believe that many who resented Obama were not necessarily racists, although many certainly were and are.

I sincerely hope that Wednesday we will witness a peaceful transfer of power; a factor that has made us great as a country and as a paragon of how other countries should behave in the political arena; sure there will be disappointments and bitterness in many minds that wanted a different direction for our country...but, once the electorate has spoken in a majority voice, the results MUST be accepted.

Trump and Bernie both voiced legitimate resentments held by middle and working class Americans.

The nature of man is such that fear brings out the worst in us. A factory closing sends massive waves of distress and hardship through a community, people worry about how they will provide, feed their kids -- xenophobia, bigotry or some version of blaming the 'other' kicks in and people refuse to look at all the factors. People refuse to look at their own choices and actions that led to their life outcomes. Coal miners refused to see the writing on the wall. Detroit Auto workers negotiated unsustainable contracts. Unions are great when they protect workers from abuses, but when they burden a company to the point of driving to outsource labor, the factory closes.

These same people will go to Walmart and buy low-priced goods on credit, never asking how is it possible. If you have 10-20K in credit card debt and your job goes away or your health insurance premiums go up, you're stressed, full of fear about the future. You want to blame someone. I get it. And Trump's raw undisciplined approach fueled that fire. It probably made it worse that the other side called you stupid for not seeing how totally unqualified Trump was. Sorry, we can't help it. Educated people think we know better.

Companies set up operations in Mexico or overseas and their profits go up--they pay out higher dividends to stock holders. The investor class has gotten rich off the polices of Reagan and Bill Clinton. Donald Trump voiced this, and hitting Ford with an import tariff seems like a good solution. Punish Ford for closing factories here, putting people out of work. Meanwhile, the Ford stockholders are hurt as are consumers looking to buy a Ford, the Ford dealers can't move overpriced inventory. Ford pushes back and lobbies political pressure to return to polices that keep them competitive--so money flows into another election and we're right back where we started.

How much would an iPhone cost if it were produced here by a union or non-union American worker with full benefits and a pension? How much would Apple pay out quarterly to investors if they had to manufacture their tech products in American factories? There's a reason for lines outside Apple stores and popularity of their products. Every American employed in the sale, distribution, support of the products benefits as do the Apple investors. But very few low-skilled American labors are being employed to assemble their products in factories because Apple can keep production costs down making iPhones overseas. Capitalism, free and open markets. We voted for this moving away from the post-WW II policies of high taxes on the wealthy investor class, tariffs on imports, and promotion and propping up of the American working class toward a lower taxes, free trade, trickle down, pass the savings on to the consumer--cheaper goods in abundance.

The GOP has been the conservative party that believed in free market capitalism--innovation, growth, competition. The Dems have only been a moderate check on that. Neither stood in the way of free trade and open borders.

Decades of policies have benefited some and hurt others. Those hurt or feel hurt or that life has been unfair because the game was "rigged" believe they are sending a message.

Americans need to accept that our government is an extension of their will. Factories closed because consumers wanted cheaper goods, investors wanted higher dividends--we wanted more for less. Also, keep in mind that while we were gutting our manufacturing sector, the conservative agenda promoted an aggressive anti-abortion and birth control agenda. Less jobs, more people. The national debt is not the fault of our government (as if they are a separate entity)--it is on us. We did this to ourselves. People don't like to say that out loud. They'd rather blame the 'other'.

No, career politicians and their federal government are 100% the reason for the national debt. Fact
In the relationship between the career politician and the union is incestuous at best.

Selfish and lazy voters are the reason we have so much debt

They demand record low tax rates while maintaining the same services

but that's not the whole story, liberal thinking is the cause of that kind of thinking, that the government owes us a living, a phone, free food, free housing, free college, and free drugs. Liberalism is the problem, not its victims.

 

[bendog]

By this time tomorrow, we can all safely state that we have "dodged a bullet" in rejecting the Trumpster...of that many of us have no doubt.

But what has made this country so divided, as many right wingers on this microcosm of a forum clearly shows?
I have lived through the turbulent 1960s, felt heartbroken over the many assassinations of our leaders, and have marched against useless and bloody wars that costs us so many lives and treasure. Yet, the meanness that this forum has often shown is unprecedented.

For myself, I "blame" 3 factors that in my long life seem to have precipitated this huge division among our fellow Americans:

1. The proliferation of social media, coupled with the anonymity that such media allow, has given a "voice" to the most strident fringe of our electorate.

2. The whole impeachment process of Bill Clinton also showed us how vengeful politics have become (and I'm not exempt form this because I would readily admit that I simply hated the GWB administration.)

3. Most of all I blame the factor that a mere 16 years ago, we had to have a supreme court appoint a president for us, where a cabal of just 5 people told us who would lead us .

I'm not even going to bring out that the Obama election also brought out the latent racism that fermented in some people hearts, since I believe that many who resented Obama were not necessarily racists, although many certainly were and are.

I sincerely hope that Wednesday we will witness a peaceful transfer of power; a factor that has made us great as a country and as a paragon of how other countries should behave in the political arena; sure there will be disappointments and bitterness in many minds that wanted a different direction for our country...but, once the electorate has spoken in a majority voice, the results MUST be accepted.

Imo it's basically because of wage depression for white, non-college educated workers.

I think O'Connor was a bit like Comey. There was a constitutional process to decide Fla without the scotus. In fact, I don't think the scotus should ever have had jurisdiction until the Fla legislature named the electors. W was going to win in any event. It was basically tied, unless a state court somehow tried to count the mis-voted Buchanan votes that were intended for Gore. It would have been lengthy and nasty, but .... the Founders set up the process.

Comey knew/knows a dem DOJ is not going to indict Hillary unless they are basically forced to do it. There are very very conservative people in the FBI who don't like that. Comey tried to accommodate both. But there is a process set up by the Founders. IF the chief executive doesn't like something going on in the executive domain, he/she can fire at will. And if the voters don't like that, they can change the chief executive every four years.

 

[rightwinger]

They demand record low tax rates while maintaining the same services

.......AND fighting useless, deadly and costly wars....just ask Cheney.

Who else would start two wars and cut taxes to pay for them?

Kennedy and Johnson.

Taxes were at 70% for the wealthy in the 60s
Bush cut it to 35%

 

[rightwinger]

By this time tomorrow, we can all safely state that we have "dodged a bullet" in rejecting the Trumpster...of that many of us have no doubt.

But what has made this country so divided, as many right wingers on this microcosm of a forum clearly shows?
I have lived through the turbulent 1960s, felt heartbroken over the many assassinations of our leaders, and have marched against useless and bloody wars that costs us so many lives and treasure. Yet, the meanness that this forum has often shown is unprecedented.

For myself, I "blame" 3 factors that in my long life seem to have precipitated this huge division among our fellow Americans:

1. The proliferation of social media, coupled with the anonymity that such media allow, has given a "voice" to the most strident fringe of our electorate.

2. The whole impeachment process of Bill Clinton also showed us how vengeful politics have become (and I'm not exempt form this because I would readily admit that I simply hated the GWB administration.)

3. Most of all I blame the factor that a mere 16 years ago, we had to have a supreme court appoint a president for us, where a cabal of just 5 people told us who would lead us .

I'm not even going to bring out that the Obama election also brought out the latent racism that fermented in some people hearts, since I believe that many who resented Obama were not necessarily racists, although many certainly were and are.

I sincerely hope that Wednesday we will witness a peaceful transfer of power; a factor that has made us great as a country and as a paragon of how other countries should behave in the political arena; sure there will be disappointments and bitterness in many minds that wanted a different direction for our country...but, once the electorate has spoken in a majority voice, the results MUST be accepted.

Trump and Bernie both voiced legitimate resentments held by middle and working class Americans.

The nature of man is such that fear brings out the worst in us. A factory closing sends massive waves of distress and hardship through a community, people worry about how they will provide, feed their kids -- xenophobia, bigotry or some version of blaming the 'other' kicks in and people refuse to look at all the factors. People refuse to look at their own choices and actions that led to their life outcomes. Coal miners refused to see the writing on the wall. Detroit Auto workers negotiated unsustainable contracts. Unions are great when they protect workers from abuses, but when they burden a company to the point of driving to outsource labor, the factory closes.

These same people will go to Walmart and buy low-priced goods on credit, never asking how is it possible. If you have 10-20K in credit card debt and your job goes away or your health insurance premiums go up, you're stressed, full of fear about the future. You want to blame someone. I get it. And Trump's raw undisciplined approach fueled that fire. It probably made it worse that the other side called you stupid for not seeing how totally unqualified Trump was. Sorry, we can't help it. Educated people think we know better.

Companies set up operations in Mexico or overseas and their profits go up--they pay out higher dividends to stock holders. The investor class has gotten rich off the polices of Reagan and Bill Clinton. Donald Trump voiced this, and hitting Ford with an import tariff seems like a good solution. Punish Ford for closing factories here, putting people out of work. Meanwhile, the Ford stockholders are hurt as are consumers looking to buy a Ford, the Ford dealers can't move overpriced inventory. Ford pushes back and lobbies political pressure to return to polices that keep them competitive--so money flows into another election and we're right back where we started.

How much would an iPhone cost if it were produced here by a union or non-union American worker with full benefits and a pension? How much would Apple pay out quarterly to investors if they had to manufacture their tech products in American factories? There's a reason for lines outside Apple stores and popularity of their products. Every American employed in the sale, distribution, support of the products benefits as do the Apple investors. But very few low-skilled American labors are being employed to assemble their products in factories because Apple can keep production costs down making iPhones overseas. Capitalism, free and open markets. We voted for this moving away from the post-WW II policies of high taxes on the wealthy investor class, tariffs on imports, and promotion and propping up of the American working class toward a lower taxes, free trade, trickle down, pass the savings on to the consumer--cheaper goods in abundance.

The GOP has been the conservative party that believed in free market capitalism--innovation, growth, competition. The Dems have only been a moderate check on that. Neither stood in the way of free trade and open borders.

Decades of policies have benefited some and hurt others. Those hurt or feel hurt or that life has been unfair because the game was "rigged" believe they are sending a message.

Americans need to accept that our government is an extension of their will. Factories closed because consumers wanted cheaper goods, investors wanted higher dividends--we wanted more for less. Also, keep in mind that while we were gutting our manufacturing sector, the conservative agenda promoted an aggressive anti-abortion and birth control agenda. Less jobs, more people. The national debt is not the fault of our government (as if they are a separate entity)--it is on us. We did this to ourselves. People don't like to say that out loud. They'd rather blame the 'other'.

No, career politicians and their federal government are 100% the reason for the national debt. Fact
In the relationship between the career politician and the union is incestuous at best.

Selfish and lazy voters are the reason we have so much debt

They demand record low tax rates while maintaining the same services

but that's not the whole story, liberal thinking is the cause of that kind of thinking, that the government owes us a living, a phone, free food, free housing, free college, and free drugs. Liberalism is the problem, not its victims.

We the People decide what services we want from our government.... police, fire, free education, defense, infrastructure, welfare

Cutting taxes to pay for it is not an answer

 

[Redfish]

They demand record low tax rates while maintaining the same services

.......AND fighting useless, deadly and costly wars....just ask Cheney.

Who else would start two wars and cut taxes to pay for them?

Kennedy and Johnson.

Taxes were at 70% for the wealthy in the 60s
Bush cut it to 35%

don't be naïve. no one paid 70%. in those days there were all kinds of exemptions and deductions in the tax code. The rich actually paid less then than they do now.

 

[Flash]

The thing that has caused so much division in this country is the greed and using the power of government for thievery of the Left.

Those greedy shitheads think they are entitled to other's peoples money and the people that have to pay the bills are getting tired of it.

In addition to that we have the filthy Left doing everything possible to destroy Liberty and to weaken our country. That also pissed people off.

 

[Redfish]

By this time tomorrow, we can all safely state that we have "dodged a bullet" in rejecting the Trumpster...of that many of us have no doubt.

But what has made this country so divided, as many right wingers on this microcosm of a forum clearly shows?
I have lived through the turbulent 1960s, felt heartbroken over the many assassinations of our leaders, and have marched against useless and bloody wars that costs us so many lives and treasure. Yet, the meanness that this forum has often shown is unprecedented.

For myself, I "blame" 3 factors that in my long life seem to have precipitated this huge division among our fellow Americans:

1. The proliferation of social media, coupled with the anonymity that such media allow, has given a "voice" to the most strident fringe of our electorate.

2. The whole impeachment process of Bill Clinton also showed us how vengeful politics have become (and I'm not exempt form this because I would readily admit that I simply hated the GWB administration.)

3. Most of all I blame the factor that a mere 16 years ago, we had to have a supreme court appoint a president for us, where a cabal of just 5 people told us who would lead us .

I'm not even going to bring out that the Obama election also brought out the latent racism that fermented in some people hearts, since I believe that many who resented Obama were not necessarily racists, although many certainly were and are.

I sincerely hope that Wednesday we will witness a peaceful transfer of power; a factor that has made us great as a country and as a paragon of how other countries should behave in the political arena; sure there will be disappointments and bitterness in many minds that wanted a different direction for our country...but, once the electorate has spoken in a majority voice, the results MUST be accepted.

Trump and Bernie both voiced legitimate resentments held by middle and working class Americans.

The nature of man is such that fear brings out the worst in us. A factory closing sends massive waves of distress and hardship through a community, people worry about how they will provide, feed their kids -- xenophobia, bigotry or some version of blaming the 'other' kicks in and people refuse to look at all the factors. People refuse to look at their own choices and actions that led to their life outcomes. Coal miners refused to see the writing on the wall. Detroit Auto workers negotiated unsustainable contracts. Unions are great when they protect workers from abuses, but when they burden a company to the point of driving to outsource labor, the factory closes.

These same people will go to Walmart and buy low-priced goods on credit, never asking how is it possible. If you have 10-20K in credit card debt and your job goes away or your health insurance premiums go up, you're stressed, full of fear about the future. You want to blame someone. I get it. And Trump's raw undisciplined approach fueled that fire. It probably made it worse that the other side called you stupid for not seeing how totally unqualified Trump was. Sorry, we can't help it. Educated people think we know better.

Companies set up operations in Mexico or overseas and their profits go up--they pay out higher dividends to stock holders. The investor class has gotten rich off the polices of Reagan and Bill Clinton. Donald Trump voiced this, and hitting Ford with an import tariff seems like a good solution. Punish Ford for closing factories here, putting people out of work. Meanwhile, the Ford stockholders are hurt as are consumers looking to buy a Ford, the Ford dealers can't move overpriced inventory. Ford pushes back and lobbies political pressure to return to polices that keep them competitive--so money flows into another election and we're right back where we started.

How much would an iPhone cost if it were produced here by a union or non-union American worker with full benefits and a pension? How much would Apple pay out quarterly to investors if they had to manufacture their tech products in American factories? There's a reason for lines outside Apple stores and popularity of their products. Every American employed in the sale, distribution, support of the products benefits as do the Apple investors. But very few low-skilled American labors are being employed to assemble their products in factories because Apple can keep production costs down making iPhones overseas. Capitalism, free and open markets. We voted for this moving away from the post-WW II policies of high taxes on the wealthy investor class, tariffs on imports, and promotion and propping up of the American working class toward a lower taxes, free trade, trickle down, pass the savings on to the consumer--cheaper goods in abundance.

The GOP has been the conservative party that believed in free market capitalism--innovation, growth, competition. The Dems have only been a moderate check on that. Neither stood in the way of free trade and open borders.

Decades of policies have benefited some and hurt others. Those hurt or feel hurt or that life has been unfair because the game was "rigged" believe they are sending a message.

Americans need to accept that our government is an extension of their will. Factories closed because consumers wanted cheaper goods, investors wanted higher dividends--we wanted more for less. Also, keep in mind that while we were gutting our manufacturing sector, the conservative agenda promoted an aggressive anti-abortion and birth control agenda. Less jobs, more people. The national debt is not the fault of our government (as if they are a separate entity)--it is on us. We did this to ourselves. People don't like to say that out loud. They'd rather blame the 'other'.

No, career politicians and their federal government are 100% the reason for the national debt. Fact
In the relationship between the career politician and the union is incestuous at best.

Selfish and lazy voters are the reason we have so much debt

They demand record low tax rates while maintaining the same services

but that's not the whole story, liberal thinking is the cause of that kind of thinking, that the government owes us a living, a phone, free food, free housing, free college, and free drugs. Liberalism is the problem, not its victims.

We the People decide what services we want from our government.... police, fire, free education, defense, infrastructure, welfare

Cutting taxes to pay for it is not an answer

no, increasing tax paying jobs is the answer. cutting taxes for business creates jobs, people with jobs pay taxes.

eliminating waste and fraud would also free up billions for those services that we all want and need. Making the government bigger as hilly wants to do is not the answer.

 

[Fang]

IMO what is dividing the country is social media and cable news showing us how our politicians on both sides lie, lie, lie, lie and lie and don't give a shit about anyone but staying in power. That's enough to make anyone angry.

 

[TheDude]

By this time tomorrow, we can all safely state that we have "dodged a bullet" in rejecting the Trumpster...of that many of us have no doubt.

But what has made this country so divided, as many right wingers on this microcosm of a forum clearly shows?
I have lived through the turbulent 1960s, felt heartbroken over the many assassinations of our leaders, and have marched against useless and bloody wars that costs us so many lives and treasure. Yet, the meanness that this forum has often shown is unprecedented.

For myself, I "blame" 3 factors that in my long life seem to have precipitated this huge division among our fellow Americans:

1. The proliferation of social media, coupled with the anonymity that such media allow, has given a "voice" to the most strident fringe of our electorate.

2. The whole impeachment process of Bill Clinton also showed us how vengeful politics have become (and I'm not exempt form this because I would readily admit that I simply hated the GWB administration.)

3. Most of all I blame the factor that a mere 16 years ago, we had to have a supreme court appoint a president for us, where a cabal of just 5 people told us who would lead us .

I'm not even going to bring out that the Obama election also brought out the latent racism that fermented in some people hearts, since I believe that many who resented Obama were not necessarily racists, although many certainly were and are.

I sincerely hope that Wednesday we will witness a peaceful transfer of power; a factor that has made us great as a country and as a paragon of how other countries should behave in the political arena; sure there will be disappointments and bitterness in many minds that wanted a different direction for our country...but, once the electorate has spoken in a majority voice, the results MUST be accepted.

No need for so many words. You want to know how we got here? Look in the damn mirror.

Even my uncle was a 60s LSD using ultra-liberal. He wised up long ago.

 

[Flash]

Democracy is the rule of the mob.

Democracy is great until 51% of the voters find out they can use the power of government to steal from the other 49%.

That is where we are at now and the 49% is pissed because of it.

 

[Mustang]

By this time tomorrow, we can all safely state that we have "dodged a bullet" in rejecting the Trumpster...of that many of us have no doubt.

But what has made this country so divided, as many right wingers on this microcosm of a forum clearly shows?
I have lived through the turbulent 1960s, felt heartbroken over the many assassinations of our leaders, and have marched against useless and bloody wars that costs us so many lives and treasure. Yet, the meanness that this forum has often shown is unprecedented.

For myself, I "blame" 3 factors that in my long life seem to have precipitated this huge division among our fellow Americans:

1. The proliferation of social media, coupled with the anonymity that such media allow, has given a "voice" to the most strident fringe of our electorate.

2. The whole impeachment process of Bill Clinton also showed us how vengeful politics have become (and I'm not exempt form this because I would readily admit that I simply hated the GWB administration.)

3. Most of all I blame the factor that a mere 16 years ago, we had to have a supreme court appoint a president for us, where a cabal of just 5 people told us who would lead us .

I'm not even going to bring out that the Obama election also brought out the latent racism that fermented in some people hearts, since I believe that many who resented Obama were not necessarily racists, although many certainly were and are.

I sincerely hope that Wednesday we will witness a peaceful transfer of power; a factor that has made us great as a country and as a paragon of how other countries should behave in the political arena; sure there will be disappointments and bitterness in many minds that wanted a different direction for our country...but, once the electorate has spoken in a majority voice, the results MUST be accepted.

Let me offer my perspective.

1. First was the rise of talk radio which started to take off in the very same year that GHWB took office. I started listening to it in 1993 and couldn't believe the sheer nonsense being passed off as erudition. And since controversy gets attention, the hosts of these shows were often not motivated by anything more than high ratings and money. Therefore, it shouldn't have surprised anyone that the truth was sacrificed in the process.

2. The rise of Newt Gingrich and his hyperbolic and destructive statements which lowered the level of discourse while also raising the volume of people speaking past each other instead of to one another in an effort to score political points while winning nothing in the process except increasing division and resentment.

3. The fact that elected representatives stopped living in Washington and interacting with each other. Instead, they left to go back to their districts every weekend and consequently didn't have much in the way of any meaningful personal relationships with members of the opposing political parties.

4. While both parties shifted right over the years, both parties increasingly lost the moderate middle (conservative Democrats and moderate Republicans) who could ultimately be counted on to come together to make deals when the more extreme wings of each party were unable to work together. This ultimately led to the nonsensical notion that compromise was a bad thing. That only led to increasing gridlock which frustrated everyone, none more than the American electorate itself.
(As an aside, I once heard a conservative say that he would not compromise with Democrats. Instead, Democrats would have to compromise with him. That's truly a nonsensical statement if I ever heard one.)

5. The rise of social media which too often pushed paranoid conspiracy theories which some politicians were too often willing to exploit to get the base to the polls in election years.

6. The fact that conservative talk radio hosts eventually turned on the leadership of the Republican Party when they were unable to live up to an absolutist all-or-nothing approach to governance.

Enter Trump...

You say it is nonsensical to expect Democrats to compromise with Conservatives while Conservatives don't compromise, but yet your entire post is trying to pressure Conservatives into doing the opposite with your ridiculous claims of extremism coming from the right.

Social media is what created the Bernie movement by the way.

You must have a reading comprehension problem. What I was stating is that, by definition, when Democrats compromise with Republicans, the Republicans are compromising as well.

 

[Flash]

[]

Of course taxes made our country great....what do you think paid for it?

Roads, bridges, harbors, airports, medical research, our military, our schools, security, safe food and water, environmental protection.........

It is always amazing how stupid you Moon Bats are.

Taxes did not make this country great. Taxes take money out of the productive economy and put it in the hands of corrupt politicians elected by special interest groups.

Taxes also are used for thievery when money is taken away from the people that earned it and given to the shithead welfare queens that didn't earn it.

Nobody has any problem with funding the minimal necessary government functions such as defense, courts, police etc providing the money is spent efficently.

The problem is the enormous amount of money that is stolen from the people and lost to the private economy on welfare, entitlements, subsidies and bailouts.

 

[bendog]

They demand record low tax rates while maintaining the same services

.......AND fighting useless, deadly and costly wars....just ask Cheney.

Who else would start two wars and cut taxes to pay for them?

Kennedy and Johnson.

Taxes were at 70% for the wealthy in the 60s
Bush cut it to 35%

don't be naïve. no one paid 70%. in those days there were all kinds of exemptions and deductions in the tax code. The rich actually paid less then than they do now.

ummmmm, we learned in Nelson Rockefeller's confirmation that the FDR taxes had very effectively reduced the wealth of the very very rich. People could still MAKE a lot of money, but keeping it for generations was not so easy. And that has changed.

 

[bendog]

By this time tomorrow, we can all safely state that we have "dodged a bullet" in rejecting the Trumpster...of that many of us have no doubt.

But what has made this country so divided, as many right wingers on this microcosm of a forum clearly shows?
I have lived through the turbulent 1960s, felt heartbroken over the many assassinations of our leaders, and have marched against useless and bloody wars that costs us so many lives and treasure. Yet, the meanness that this forum has often shown is unprecedented.

For myself, I "blame" 3 factors that in my long life seem to have precipitated this huge division among our fellow Americans:

1. The proliferation of social media, coupled with the anonymity that such media allow, has given a "voice" to the most strident fringe of our electorate.

2. The whole impeachment process of Bill Clinton also showed us how vengeful politics have become (and I'm not exempt form this because I would readily admit that I simply hated the GWB administration.)

3. Most of all I blame the factor that a mere 16 years ago, we had to have a supreme court appoint a president for us, where a cabal of just 5 people told us who would lead us .

I'm not even going to bring out that the Obama election also brought out the latent racism that fermented in some people hearts, since I believe that many who resented Obama were not necessarily racists, although many certainly were and are.

I sincerely hope that Wednesday we will witness a peaceful transfer of power; a factor that has made us great as a country and as a paragon of how other countries should behave in the political arena; sure there will be disappointments and bitterness in many minds that wanted a different direction for our country...but, once the electorate has spoken in a majority voice, the results MUST be accepted.

Let me offer my perspective.

1. First was the rise of talk radio which started to take off in the very same year that GHWB took office. I started listening to it in 1993 and couldn't believe the sheer nonsense being passed off as erudition. And since controversy gets attention, the hosts of these shows were often not motivated by anything more than high ratings and money. Therefore, it shouldn't have surprised anyone that the truth was sacrificed in the process.

2. The rise of Newt Gingrich and his hyperbolic and destructive statements which lowered the level of discourse while also raising the volume of people speaking past each other instead of to one another in an effort to score political points while winning nothing in the process except increasing division and resentment.

3. The fact that elected representatives stopped living in Washington and interacting with each other. Instead, they left to go back to their districts every weekend and consequently didn't have much in the way of any meaningful personal relationships with members of the opposing political parties.

4. While both parties shifted right over the years, both parties increasingly lost the moderate middle (conservative Democrats and moderate Republicans) who could ultimately be counted on to come together to make deals when the more extreme wings of each party were unable to work together. This ultimately led to the nonsensical notion that compromise was a bad thing. That only led to increasing gridlock which frustrated everyone, none more than the American electorate itself.
(As an aside, I once heard a conservative say that he would not compromise with Democrats. Instead, Democrats would have to compromise with him. That's truly a nonsensical statement if I ever heard one.)

5. The rise of social media which too often pushed paranoid conspiracy theories which some politicians were too often willing to exploit to get the base to the polls in election years.

6. The fact that conservative talk radio hosts eventually turned on the leadership of the Republican Party when they were unable to live up to an absolutist all-or-nothing approach to governance.

Enter Trump...

You say it is nonsensical to expect Democrats to compromise with Conservatives while Conservatives don't compromise, but yet your entire post is trying to pressure Conservatives into doing the opposite with your ridiculous claims of extremism coming from the right.

Social media is what created the Bernie movement by the way.

You must have a reading comprehension problem. What I was stating is that, by definition, when Democrats compromise with Republicans, the Republicans are compromising as well.

That is not true of the Freedom Caucus.

 

[rightwinger]

They demand record low tax rates while maintaining the same services

.......AND fighting useless, deadly and costly wars....just ask Cheney.

Who else would start two wars and cut taxes to pay for them?

Kennedy and Johnson.

Taxes were at 70% for the wealthy in the 60s
Bush cut it to 35%

don't be naïve. no one paid 70%. in those days there were all kinds of exemptions and deductions in the tax code. The rich actually paid less then than they do now.

Bullshit