Failure of Creation

[TNHarley]

I won't be alive to see it, so what difference does it make.

Considering that you will be in purgatory or in hell about to be thrown in the lake of fire, you may want to consider this.

Dumpster is no stranger to fire and hell, he threw his partenting into

The creation has failed and can't be saved. I hope I am wrong, but look at these three Bible verses. Your take?

Revelation 21:1 1Then I saw "a new heaven and a new earth," for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

Isaiah 65:17 17"See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.

HAPPENING IN THE SAME TIME AS:

Revelation 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

So, everything will end without a trace or even memory, and a new one will be created. Looks like the effort of salvation portrayed in Romans 8:20 has failed.

Is this good news or bad? I think probably good.

Your take?

Just find it interesting that what you quote was likewise predicted independently 3,000 years earlier in the Vedas.

Very interesting, and what is the Vedas?

Vedic Science, originally handed down 5,000 years ago by word of mouth then eventually translated into Sanskrit when man entered the age of forgetfulness, which eventually became the basis for Hindu and eastern religion as well as the origin for all religion.

Did you know vedic science said we started our as plants, then went to animals, then when yo an inferior man, now we are in the age of superior man?
Blows my mind considering evolution

 

[norwegen]

The creation has failed and can't be saved. I hope I am wrong, but look at these three Bible verses. Your take?

Revelation 21:1 1Then I saw "a new heaven and a new earth," for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

Isaiah 65:17 17"See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.

HAPPENING IN THE SAME TIME AS:

Revelation 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

So, everything will end without a trace or even memory, and a new one will be created. Looks like the effort of salvation portrayed in Romans 8:20 has failed.

Is this good news or bad? I think probably good.

Your take?

My take? No, they're not happening at the same time. Look at Isaiah 65:17 &18:
​

For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth,​

and the former things shall not be remembered​

or come into mind.​

But be glad and rejoice forever in that which I create;​

for behold, I create Jerusalem to be a joy,​

and her people to be a gladness.​

.​

In Isaiah’s poem we see God renewing His covenant with Abraham's progeny when they gain independence from Babylon. New heavens and a new earth are a new covenant.

Creation is not actually the abode of God or the third planet from the sun. Or if so, where was God while He was creating heaven?

Josephus, being a Jew, was immersed in traditional temple culture, and explains heaven and earth in that context even as far back in time as the first tabernacle:

As for the inside, Moses parted its length into three partitions. At the distance of ten cubits from the most secret end, Moses placed four pillars, the workmanship of which was the very same with that of the rest; and they stood upon the like bases with them, each a small matter distant from his fellow. Now the room within those pillars was the most holy place; but the rest of the room was the tabernacle, which was open for the priests. However, this proportion of the measures of the tabernacle proved to be an imitation of the system of the world: for that third part thereof which was within the four pillars, to which the priests were not admitted, is, as it were, a Heaven peculiar to God; but the space of the twenty cubits, is, as it were, sea and land, on which men live, and so this part is peculiar to the priests only. (Antiquities 3.6.4)​

Often, when Jews spoke of heaven and earth, they spoke of the temple. It was just a fact of daily life.

Everything has already ended. The new has already begun. It's good news.

Interesting. If the new has already begun, then how is it that we still observe suffering?

Did God promise to end suffering?

Actually, God does not create suffering, man does. Man is in the unique position to act with free will in regards to whether he follows God or acts independently. Therefore by definition, suffering is that state whereby we are separated from God. That means that the sole remedy to end suffering is to be one with God.

Christians already abide in the Him and He in them (Jn 15:4). They still suffer.

 

[anotherlife]

The creation has failed and can't be saved. I hope I am wrong, but look at these three Bible verses. Your take?

Revelation 21:1 1Then I saw "a new heaven and a new earth," for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

Isaiah 65:17 17"See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.

HAPPENING IN THE SAME TIME AS:

Revelation 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

So, everything will end without a trace or even memory, and a new one will be created. Looks like the effort of salvation portrayed in Romans 8:20 has failed.

Is this good news or bad? I think probably good.

Your take?

My take? No, they're not happening at the same time. Look at Isaiah 65:17 &18:
​

For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth,
and the former things shall not be remembered​

or come into mind.​

But be glad and rejoice forever in that which I create;
for behold, I create Jerusalem to be a joy,​

and her people to be a gladness.​

.​

In Isaiah’s poem we see God renewing His covenant with Abraham's progeny when they gain independence from Babylon. New heavens and a new earth are a new covenant.

Creation is not actually the abode of God or the third planet from the sun. Or if so, where was God while He was creating heaven?

Josephus, being a Jew, was immersed in traditional temple culture, and explains heaven and earth in that context even as far back in time as the first tabernacle:

As for the inside, Moses parted its length into three partitions. At the distance of ten cubits from the most secret end, Moses placed four pillars, the workmanship of which was the very same with that of the rest; and they stood upon the like bases with them, each a small matter distant from his fellow. Now the room within those pillars was the most holy place; but the rest of the room was the tabernacle, which was open for the priests. However, this proportion of the measures of the tabernacle proved to be an imitation of the system of the world: for that third part thereof which was within the four pillars, to which the priests were not admitted, is, as it were, a Heaven peculiar to God; but the space of the twenty cubits, is, as it were, sea and land, on which men live, and so this part is peculiar to the priests only. (Antiquities 3.6.4)​

Often, when Jews spoke of heaven and earth, they spoke of the temple. It was just a fact of daily life.

Everything has already ended. The new has already begun. It's good news.

Interesting. If the new has already begun, then how is it that we still observe suffering?

Did God promise to end suffering?

Yes, your very quote of Isaiah 65 says so.

 

[Indeependent]

The creation has failed and can't be saved. I hope I am wrong, but look at these three Bible verses. Your take?

Revelation 21:1 1Then I saw "a new heaven and a new earth," for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

Isaiah 65:17 17"See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.

HAPPENING IN THE SAME TIME AS:

Revelation 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

So, everything will end without a trace or even memory, and a new one will be created. Looks like the effort of salvation portrayed in Romans 8:20 has failed.

Is this good news or bad? I think probably good.

Your take?

Just find it interesting that what you quote was likewise predicted independently 3,000 years earlier in the Vedas.

Have a link to those Vedic passages? I would be interested in seeing them, if you have a source available.

Lots of religions claim to have books that are tens of millions of years old...I'd like to see one of them.

 

[ViewFromAbove]

Failure of Creation?

One sees “failure”, while another sees ...

Success of Evolution!

 

[Picaro]

The creation has failed and can't be saved. I hope I am wrong, but look at these three Bible verses. Your take?

Revelation 21:1 1Then I saw "a new heaven and a new earth," for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

Isaiah 65:17 17"See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.

HAPPENING IN THE SAME TIME AS:

Revelation 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

So, everything will end without a trace or even memory, and a new one will be created. Looks like the effort of salvation portrayed in Romans 8:20 has failed.

Is this good news or bad? I think probably good.

Your take?

Just find it interesting that what you quote was likewise predicted independently 3,000 years earlier in the Vedas.

Have a link to those Vedic passages? I would be interested in seeing them, if you have a source available.

Lots of religions claim to have books that are tens of millions of years old...I'd like to see one of them.

They're all less documented and newer rewrites than Judaism and most newer than Christianity as well. They claim these really ancient early starts but never get rolling until much much later, like Buddhism and Hinduism. By rewrites I don't mean copying older texts, but actual rewrites, designed to compete with more modern cults. they never develop into real religions.

 

[gtopa1]

The creation has failed and can't be saved. I hope I am wrong, but look at these three Bible verses. Your take?

Revelation 21:1 1Then I saw "a new heaven and a new earth," for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

Isaiah 65:17 17"See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.

HAPPENING IN THE SAME TIME AS:

Revelation 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

So, everything will end without a trace or even memory, and a new one will be created. Looks like the effort of salvation portrayed in Romans 8:20 has failed.

Is this good news or bad? I think probably good.

Your take?

Dunno, but I go with what the Catholics say. Their theologians worry about that stuff for me. Mass was good today. Nothing said about that though 'cept we know not the hour.....such is life.

Greg

 

[gtopa1]

The creation has failed and can't be saved. I hope I am wrong, but look at these three Bible verses. Your take?

Revelation 21:1 1Then I saw "a new heaven and a new earth," for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

Isaiah 65:17 17"See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.

HAPPENING IN THE SAME TIME AS:

Revelation 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

So, everything will end without a trace or even memory, and a new one will be created. Looks like the effort of salvation portrayed in Romans 8:20 has failed.

Is this good news or bad? I think probably good.

Your take?

Just find it interesting that what you quote was likewise predicted independently 3,000 years earlier in the Vedas.

Have a link to those Vedic passages? I would be interested in seeing them, if you have a source available.

Lots of religions claim to have books that are tens of millions of years old...I'd like to see one of them.

Who says that? The New testament didn't happen until about 700AD. The Books of course were known to The Church long before then but only by about 600 years. .

Greg

 

[norwegen]

The creation has failed and can't be saved. I hope I am wrong, but look at these three Bible verses. Your take?

Revelation 21:1 1Then I saw "a new heaven and a new earth," for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

Isaiah 65:17 17"See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.

HAPPENING IN THE SAME TIME AS:

Revelation 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

So, everything will end without a trace or even memory, and a new one will be created. Looks like the effort of salvation portrayed in Romans 8:20 has failed.

Is this good news or bad? I think probably good.

Your take?

My take? No, they're not happening at the same time. Look at Isaiah 65:17 &18:
​

For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth,​

and the former things shall not be remembered​

or come into mind.​

But be glad and rejoice forever in that which I create;​

for behold, I create Jerusalem to be a joy,​

and her people to be a gladness.​

.​

In Isaiah’s poem we see God renewing His covenant with Abraham's progeny when they gain independence from Babylon. New heavens and a new earth are a new covenant.

Creation is not actually the abode of God or the third planet from the sun. Or if so, where was God while He was creating heaven?

Josephus, being a Jew, was immersed in traditional temple culture, and explains heaven and earth in that context even as far back in time as the first tabernacle:

As for the inside, Moses parted its length into three partitions. At the distance of ten cubits from the most secret end, Moses placed four pillars, the workmanship of which was the very same with that of the rest; and they stood upon the like bases with them, each a small matter distant from his fellow. Now the room within those pillars was the most holy place; but the rest of the room was the tabernacle, which was open for the priests. However, this proportion of the measures of the tabernacle proved to be an imitation of the system of the world: for that third part thereof which was within the four pillars, to which the priests were not admitted, is, as it were, a Heaven peculiar to God; but the space of the twenty cubits, is, as it were, sea and land, on which men live, and so this part is peculiar to the priests only. (Antiquities 3.6.4)​

Often, when Jews spoke of heaven and earth, they spoke of the temple. It was just a fact of daily life.

Everything has already ended. The new has already begun. It's good news.

Interesting. If the new has already begun, then how is it that we still observe suffering?

Did God promise to end suffering?

Yes, your very quote of Isaiah 65 says so.

No, it doesn't, although Isaiah alludes to that idea elsewhere.

In 60:20, we see that people will no longer mourn (60:20) and that the prophet iterates this sentiment again in verse 19 of Chapter 65:

I will rejoice in Jerusalem

and be glad in my people;​

no more shall be heard in it the sound of weeping

and the cry of distress.​

Isaiah makes this crystal clear; when God liberates His people, He wipes away their tears. First, note that under the Old Covenant, Jerusalem, though unfaithful, is still the holy city worthy of salvation from her foreign overlords. Second, when God would restore Jerusalem, the prophets used that phrase, that His people would no longer cry. Liberated from their foreign oppressors, be they Babylon or Persia or whomever, God’s people would no longer shed any tears. In other words, they would be free to live their own lives as a free people. That people would no longer shed any tears is a common euphemism even in our present day, and also when the oppressor of the faithful was Rome.

But imagine a world literally without death or tears, either in the Garden of Eden or in some future utopia. A sterile world without games or sport, without competition of any kind. Without motivation. A world without provocation or differences, in which everyone is equal in the most socialistic or communistic sense. An extreme left-wing world in which any potential to offend or be offended is eliminated, where a child cannot even pout when she is denied dessert. A world of clones. A lifeless, uninspired world in which everyone lives in similar houses, wears similar attire, and lives on similar diets. Imagine that world without tears. What would mankind profit if God were to expunge from it so much of its capacity to feel? To remove so much from humanity would not enrich it but rather diminish it. God is a God of His people but also of individuals whose hairs He numbers.

 

[Indeependent]

The creation has failed and can't be saved. I hope I am wrong, but look at these three Bible verses. Your take?

Revelation 21:1 1Then I saw "a new heaven and a new earth," for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

Isaiah 65:17 17"See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.

HAPPENING IN THE SAME TIME AS:

Revelation 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

So, everything will end without a trace or even memory, and a new one will be created. Looks like the effort of salvation portrayed in Romans 8:20 has failed.

Is this good news or bad? I think probably good.

Your take?

Just find it interesting that what you quote was likewise predicted independently 3,000 years earlier in the Vedas.

Have a link to those Vedic passages? I would be interested in seeing them, if you have a source available.

Lots of religions claim to have books that are tens of millions of years old...I'd like to see one of them.

Who says that? The New testament didn't happen until about 700AD. The Books of course were known to The Church long before then but only by about 600 years. .

Greg

The Hindus claim their written Scripture goes back tens of millions of years yet they present have nothing.
Of course, those whose desire is to deflate the Torah always repeat this Hindu statement without asking for proof.

 

[toobfreak]

The creation has failed and can't be saved. I hope I am wrong, but look at these three Bible verses. Your take?

Revelation 21:1 1Then I saw "a new heaven and a new earth," for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

Isaiah 65:17 17"See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.

HAPPENING IN THE SAME TIME AS:

Revelation 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

So, everything will end without a trace or even memory, and a new one will be created. Looks like the effort of salvation portrayed in Romans 8:20 has failed.

Is this good news or bad? I think probably good.

Your take?

Just find it interesting that what you quote was likewise predicted independently 3,000 years earlier in the Vedas.

Have a link to those Vedic passages? I would be interested in seeing them, if you have a source available.

Lots of religions claim to have books that are tens of millions of years old...I'd like to see one of them.

Really? NO RELIGION claim to have books that are tens of millions of years old..., 10 million years ago the very first hominid apes were just branching off from other primates. Do please show me one religion claiming to have a book 10 million years old!

 

[toobfreak]

The Hindus claim their written Scripture goes back tens of millions of years.

Show us one of those "claims."

 

[toobfreak]

The creation has failed and can't be saved. I hope I am wrong, but look at these three Bible verses. Your take?

Revelation 21:1 1Then I saw "a new heaven and a new earth," for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

Isaiah 65:17 17"See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.

HAPPENING IN THE SAME TIME AS:

Revelation 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

So, everything will end without a trace or even memory, and a new one will be created. Looks like the effort of salvation portrayed in Romans 8:20 has failed.

Is this good news or bad? I think probably good.

Your take?

Just find it interesting that what you quote was likewise predicted independently 3,000 years earlier in the Vedas.

Have a link to those Vedic passages? I would be interested in seeing them, if you have a source available.

Lots of religions claim to have books that are tens of millions of years old...I'd like to see one of them.

They're all less documented and newer rewrites than Judaism and most newer than Christianity as well. They claim these really ancient early starts but never get rolling until much much later, like Buddhism and Hinduism. By rewrites I don't mean copying older texts, but actual rewrites, designed to compete with more modern cults. they never develop into real religions.

LOL. Tell us Scholar what part of the Hebrew Bible predates Vedic Sanskrit?

 

[Indeependent]

The creation has failed and can't be saved. I hope I am wrong, but look at these three Bible verses. Your take?

Revelation 21:1 1Then I saw "a new heaven and a new earth," for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

Isaiah 65:17 17"See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.

HAPPENING IN THE SAME TIME AS:

Revelation 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

So, everything will end without a trace or even memory, and a new one will be created. Looks like the effort of salvation portrayed in Romans 8:20 has failed.

Is this good news or bad? I think probably good.

Your take?

Just find it interesting that what you quote was likewise predicted independently 3,000 years earlier in the Vedas.

Have a link to those Vedic passages? I would be interested in seeing them, if you have a source available.

Lots of religions claim to have books that are tens of millions of years old...I'd like to see one of them.

Really? NO RELIGION claim to have books that are tens of millions of years old..., 10 million years ago the very first hominid apes were just branching off from other primates. Do please show me one religion claiming to have a book 10 million years old!

The Hindus make such a claim.

 

[Indeependent]

The Hindus claim their written Scripture goes back tens of millions of years.

View attachment 276971 Show us one of those "claims."

This is what I love about this site.
When I was doing research back in the late 80s, the claims on the Internet were that it was tens of millions of years old.
I guess they have been called on that bullshit so much that their current claim is rather normal.
I appreciate your pushing me it Goggling it.

 

[toobfreak]

The creation has failed and can't be saved. I hope I am wrong, but look at these three Bible verses. Your take?

Revelation 21:1 1Then I saw "a new heaven and a new earth," for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

Isaiah 65:17 17"See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.

HAPPENING IN THE SAME TIME AS:

Revelation 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

So, everything will end without a trace or even memory, and a new one will be created. Looks like the effort of salvation portrayed in Romans 8:20 has failed.

Is this good news or bad? I think probably good.

Your take?

Just find it interesting that what you quote was likewise predicted independently 3,000 years earlier in the Vedas.

Have a link to those Vedic passages? I would be interested in seeing them, if you have a source available.

Lots of religions claim to have books that are tens of millions of years old...I'd like to see one of them.

Really? NO RELIGION claim to have books that are tens of millions of years old..., 10 million years ago the very first hominid apes were just branching off from other primates. Do please show me one religion claiming to have a book 10 million years old!

The Hindus make such a claim.

BULLSHIT. PROVE IT. There weren't even people 10 million years ago much less books! The species Homo only goes back about 2 million years! The earliest known proto-writing only goes back about 6,000 years. Don't go all stupid on me now.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Considering that you will be in purgatory or in hell about to be thrown in the lake of fire, you may want to consider this.

Your magical threats hold no weight, shaman.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The Hindus claim their written Scripture goes back tens of millions of years

Which, of course, is absurd. It's just as absurd as believing in YEC nonsense.

 

[toobfreak]

The Hindus claim their written Scripture goes back tens of millions of years.

View attachment 276971 Show us one of those "claims."

This is what I love about this site.
When I was doing research back in the late 80s, the claims on the Internet were that it was tens of millions of years old.
I guess they have been called on that bullshit so much that their current claim is rather normal.
I appreciate your pushing me it Goggling it.

You should try getting off the internet once and a while and try doing some real research. Obviously what you read was a typo or total bull or a misstatement by some clueless person. The internet was barely alive in the 1980s.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Just find it interesting that what you quote was likewise predicted independently 3,000 years earlier in the Vedas.

Have a link to those Vedic passages? I would be interested in seeing them, if you have a source available.

Lots of religions claim to have books that are tens of millions of years old...I'd like to see one of them.

Really? NO RELIGION claim to have books that are tens of millions of years old..., 10 million years ago the very first hominid apes were just branching off from other primates. Do please show me one religion claiming to have a book 10 million years old!

The Hindus make such a claim.

BULLSHIT. PROVE IT. There weren't even people 10 million years ago much less books! The species Homo only goes back about 2 million years! The earliest known proto-writing only goes back about 6,000 years. Don't go all stupid on me now.

I dont know about exact numbers, but many Hindu scholars do, indeed, cmlaim the Hindu culture is millions of years old.

Of course that's nonsense. But it's not trivial...these people are entrenched in india's government.