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since when in this country did it become acceptable for others not to try to better themselves and just blame others for their own shortcomings?
Yeah, many subscribe to a strange double standard on issues like this. They hold Workers to some unrealistic lofty moral standard, while approving of anything Businesses do. It's like they believe Business Owners are a special class. It's them, and then the Slave Class. Workers are just supposed to shut up, do what they're told, and be good little slaves. It's a mentality i'll never understand. Defending Capitalism is good, but Workers need defending too. There's two sides to the story. Business Owners are not a special class.
Get out, meaning close your business. If you can't or won't pay an American a decent wage, you shouldn't be in business.
You're all good with Businesses doing whatever they have to do to make a profit. Yet you're so against Workers doing whatever they have to do to survive. I just don't get that mentality. It's like you're telling workers to just shut up, do what they're told, and be good slaves. I'll never begrudge a worker fighting for more. It's their right.
Nonsense.
I'm all for workers negotiating to get the most for their time and talent that they possibly can. What I oppose is a third party, such as government - or a greedy monopoly like SEUI, getting involved.
You're all good with Businesses doing whatever they have to do to make a profit. Yet you're so against Workers doing whatever they have to do to survive. I just don't get that mentality. It's like you're telling workers to just shut up, do what they're told, and be good slaves. I'll never begrudge a worker fighting for more. It's their right.
Nonsense.
I'm all for workers negotiating to get the most for their time and talent that they possibly can. What I oppose is a third party, such as government - or a greedy monopoly like SEUI, getting involved.
I partially agree with you. I have no issue with Private Unions. I feel differently about Public Unions though. But i see no reason why Workers shouldn't form Unions and fight for more. There's strength in numbers. And that's the only chance you have when going up against Corporate Powers. Businesses don't often conduct themselves in a moral fashion. It's all about the bottom line. They have no problem laying workers off, cutting their hours/pay, or replacing them with cheap Temp Labor. They do what they do to increase profits. So Workers should have the right to fight for increased pay and job stability. If they don't fight for themselves, who else will? They certainly can't count on you and many others on this Board right now.
Get out, meaning close your business. If you can't or won't pay an American a decent wage, you shouldn't be in business.
And this is where you turn to Obama, to enforce the "decent wage" that you desire....
What I think you are trying to express is, "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need."
Nonsense.
I'm all for workers negotiating to get the most for their time and talent that they possibly can. What I oppose is a third party, such as government - or a greedy monopoly like SEUI, getting involved.
I partially agree with you. I have no issue with Private Unions. I feel differently about Public Unions though. But i see no reason why Workers shouldn't form Unions and fight for more. There's strength in numbers. And that's the only chance you have when going up against Corporate Powers. Businesses don't often conduct themselves in a moral fashion. It's all about the bottom line. They have no problem laying workers off, cutting their hours/pay, or replacing them with cheap Temp Labor. They do what they do to increase profits. So Workers should have the right to fight for increased pay and job stability. If they don't fight for themselves, who else will? They certainly can't count on you and many others on this Board right now.
IF they don't walk out the door after good faith negotiations, then they don't deserve anyone else coming in to save them from this ~big bad wolf`.
I once, many moons ago had an employer with a napoleonic complex. Could be great some times, others not so much. I found myself another job and let him know when I left why. He said I would be sorry. I said, no he would. And sure enough he was. I took control of my own destination. If anyone else doesn't do it for themselves, then so be it.
I partially agree with you. I have no issue with Private Unions. I feel differently about Public Unions though. But i see no reason why Workers shouldn't form Unions and fight for more. There's strength in numbers. And that's the only chance you have when going up against Corporate Powers. Businesses don't often conduct themselves in a moral fashion. It's all about the bottom line. They have no problem laying workers off, cutting their hours/pay, or replacing them with cheap Temp Labor. They do what they do to increase profits. So Workers should have the right to fight for increased pay and job stability. If they don't fight for themselves, who else will? They certainly can't count on you and many others on this Board right now.
IF they don't walk out the door after good faith negotiations, then they don't deserve anyone else coming in to save them from this ~big bad wolf`.
I once, many moons ago had an employer with a napoleonic complex. Could be great some times, others not so much. I found myself another job and let him know when I left why. He said I would be sorry. I said, no he would. And sure enough he was. I took control of my own destination. If anyone else doesn't do it for themselves, then so be it.
I'm happy for you. I really am. But each individual's situation is different. Too many now feel that Business Owners are a special protected Class. They give Businesses a free pass on their immoral practices. Yet these same people viciously condemn Workers for merely fighting for scraps. It's a very flawed irrational mentality. We don't condone Slavery in our Nation. If your Business can't survive on paying Americans decent wages, then you shouldn't be in business. You don't deserve, or are entitled to cheap labor.
I partially agree with you. I have no issue with Private Unions. I feel differently about Public Unions though. But i see no reason why Workers shouldn't form Unions and fight for more. There's strength in numbers. And that's the only chance you have when going up against Corporate Powers. Businesses don't often conduct themselves in a moral fashion. It's all about the bottom line. They have no problem laying workers off, cutting their hours/pay, or replacing them with cheap Temp Labor. They do what they do to increase profits. So Workers should have the right to fight for increased pay and job stability. If they don't fight for themselves, who else will? They certainly can't count on you and many others on this Board.
IF they don't walk out the door after good faith negotiations, then they don't deserve anyone else coming in to save them from this ~big bad wolf`.
I once, many moons ago had an employer with a napoleonic complex. Could be great some times, others not so much. I found myself another job and let him know when I left why. He said I would be sorry. I said, no he would. And sure enough he was. I took control of my own destination. If anyone else doesn't do it for themselves, then so be it.
I'm happy for you. I really am. But each individual's situation is different. Too many now feel that Business Owners are a special protected Class. They give Businesses a free pass on their immoral practices. Yet these same people viciously condemn Workers for merely fighting for scraps. It's a very flawed irrational mentality. We don't condone Slavery in our Nation. If your Business can't survive on paying Americans decent wages, then you shouldn't be in business. You don't deserve, or are entitled to cheap labor.
So what do you see as a decent wage? What skill set do you see for that wage?
I partially agree with you. I have no issue with Private Unions. I feel differently about Public Unions though. But i see no reason why Workers shouldn't form Unions and fight for more. There's strength in numbers. And that's the only chance you have when going up against Corporate Powers. Businesses don't often conduct themselves in a moral fashion. It's all about the bottom line. They have no problem laying workers off, cutting their hours/pay, or replacing them with cheap Temp Labor. They do what they do to increase profits. So Workers should have the right to fight for increased pay and job stability. If they don't fight for themselves, who else will? They certainly can't count on you and many others on this Board.
I explain this to my students like this;
Say you have a small shop that makes custom oak furniture and cabinets. You have 7 guys working for you. 3 craftsmen, 2 drivers, and 2 helpers. Without the craftsmen, you are out of business. The others are easily replaceable. They form a union and call for 10% across the board raise. You raise prices, lose some business - but what do you do? Your business depends on the craftsmen - they have unique skills.
In the above case, a union makes sense for the workers, the craftsmen can pass their skills to the helpers - which is good for the business, so putting up with wage demands is logical.
But say instead you have a business where you put a plastic fork, a plastic spoon, a packet of pepper, and a packet of salt into a plastic bag and seal it for KFC. The workers unionize and demand a 10% across the board raise. What do you do? You can't raise prices, because the value of your service is marginal at best - KFC could bring it in-house and have their own workers do it when not busy - after all, there is zero skill involved. What you CAN and should do is fire everyone, and hire from scratch, after all, a trained monkey can do the job.
In one case, a union might make sense, in the other case, a union is foolish. Unions only work in a free market if there is a skill set to bargain with. This is why unions use the government to enforce their will.
Unions are not all they are cracked up to be. Many don't follow their own rules, don't care about anything but increasing their own paychecks, and corruption seems to follow alot of them.
New Jersey IBEW Secretary-Treasurer, Steward Charged with Theft
Glass Workers Treasurer in Ohio Pleads Guilty; Sentenced
AFGE Local President in New Mexico Sentenced for Embezzlement
Deceased Upstate New York Teachers Union President May Have Stolen $800K+
Painters Secretary in NW Indiana Sentenced for Embezzlement
Insulators PAC Manager Sentenced for $500K+ in Thefts
IBEW Bookkeeper in Pennsylvania Sentenced for Embezzlement
Treasurer of NTEU Local in Utah Pleads Guilty to Theft; Sentenced
CWA Local President, Treasurer in Michigan Sentenced for Embezzlement
Mississippi UGSOA Local Treasurer Sentenced for Embezzlement
Transportation Union Secretary-Secretary in Ohio Pleads Guilty to Theft
Kentucky Local Steelworkers Financial Secretary Indicted
Transport Workers Secretary in Texas Pleads Guilty; Sentenced
New Reports Show Severe Shortfalls in Multiemployer Union Pensions
All of the above since July 1 of this year.
I partially agree with you. I have no issue with Private Unions. I feel differently about Public Unions though. But i see no reason why Workers shouldn't form Unions and fight for more. There's strength in numbers. And that's the only chance you have when going up against Corporate Powers. Businesses don't often conduct themselves in a moral fashion. It's all about the bottom line. They have no problem laying workers off, cutting their hours/pay, or replacing them with cheap Temp Labor. They do what they do to increase profits. So Workers should have the right to fight for increased pay and job stability. If they don't fight for themselves, who else will? They certainly can't count on you and many others on this Board.
I explain this to my students like this;
Say you have a small shop that makes custom oak furniture and cabinets. You have 7 guys working for you. 3 craftsmen, 2 drivers, and 2 helpers. Without the craftsmen, you are out of business. The others are easily replaceable. They form a union and call for 10% across the board raise. You raise prices, lose some business - but what do you do? Your business depends on the craftsmen - they have unique skills.
In the above case, a union makes sense for the workers, the craftsmen can pass their skills to the helpers - which is good for the business, so putting up with wage demands is logical.
But say instead you have a business where you put a plastic fork, a plastic spoon, a packet of pepper, and a packet of salt into a plastic bag and seal it for KFC. The workers unionize and demand a 10% across the board raise. What do you do? You can't raise prices, because the value of your service is marginal at best - KFC could bring it in-house and have their own workers do it when not busy - after all, there is zero skill involved. What you CAN and should do is fire everyone, and hire from scratch, after all, a trained monkey can do the job.
In one case, a union might make sense, in the other case, a union is foolish. Unions only work in a free market if there is a skill set to bargain with. This is why unions use the government to enforce their will.
You make some valid points. You clearly see both perspectives. We can agree to disagree on some issues. But at least you're attempting to consider both perspectives. Unfortunately, i see far too many with that "RAH RAH CORPORATIONS!!" mentality. They blindly approve of all immoral business practices. And those are usually the same people hopping up on their high horses to preach pious condemnation of workers just fighting for scraps. They refuse to see the whole picture.
Unions are not all they are cracked up to be. Many don't follow their own rules, don't care about anything but increasing their own paychecks, and corruption seems to follow alot of them.
New Jersey IBEW Secretary-Treasurer, Steward Charged with Theft
Glass Workers Treasurer in Ohio Pleads Guilty; Sentenced
AFGE Local President in New Mexico Sentenced for Embezzlement
Deceased Upstate New York Teachers Union President May Have Stolen $800K+
Painters Secretary in NW Indiana Sentenced for Embezzlement
Insulators PAC Manager Sentenced for $500K+ in Thefts
IBEW Bookkeeper in Pennsylvania Sentenced for Embezzlement
Treasurer of NTEU Local in Utah Pleads Guilty to Theft; Sentenced
CWA Local President, Treasurer in Michigan Sentenced for Embezzlement
Mississippi UGSOA Local Treasurer Sentenced for Embezzlement
Transportation Union Secretary-Secretary in Ohio Pleads Guilty to Theft
Kentucky Local Steelworkers Financial Secretary Indicted
Transport Workers Secretary in Texas Pleads Guilty; Sentenced
New Reports Show Severe Shortfalls in Multiemployer Union Pensions
All of the above since July 1 of this year.
Yes, there is corruption in Unions. But that can be said of all aspects of life. There's corruption everywhere in our Society. The reality is, since the demise of Unions in our Nation, American Wages have stagnated or decreased. It's no coincidence.
I explain this to my students like this;
Say you have a small shop that makes custom oak furniture and cabinets. You have 7 guys working for you. 3 craftsmen, 2 drivers, and 2 helpers. Without the craftsmen, you are out of business. The others are easily replaceable. They form a union and call for 10% across the board raise. You raise prices, lose some business - but what do you do? Your business depends on the craftsmen - they have unique skills.
In the above case, a union makes sense for the workers, the craftsmen can pass their skills to the helpers - which is good for the business, so putting up with wage demands is logical.
But say instead you have a business where you put a plastic fork, a plastic spoon, a packet of pepper, and a packet of salt into a plastic bag and seal it for KFC. The workers unionize and demand a 10% across the board raise. What do you do? You can't raise prices, because the value of your service is marginal at best - KFC could bring it in-house and have their own workers do it when not busy - after all, there is zero skill involved. What you CAN and should do is fire everyone, and hire from scratch, after all, a trained monkey can do the job.
In one case, a union might make sense, in the other case, a union is foolish. Unions only work in a free market if there is a skill set to bargain with. This is why unions use the government to enforce their will.
You make some valid points. You clearly see both perspectives. We can agree to disagree on some issues. But at least you're attempting to consider both perspectives. Unfortunately, i see far too many with that "RAH RAH CORPORATIONS!!" mentality. They blindly approve of all immoral business practices. And those are usually the same people hopping up on their high horses to preach pious condemnation of workers just fighting for scraps. They refuse to see the whole picture.
I asked previously what do you consider a decent wage? What skill set do you see for that wage? Maybe you just missed that post.
You make some valid points. You clearly see both perspectives. We can agree to disagree on some issues. But at least you're attempting to consider both perspectives. Unfortunately, i see far too many with that "RAH RAH CORPORATIONS!!" mentality. They blindly approve of all immoral business practices. And those are usually the same people hopping up on their high horses to preach pious condemnation of workers just fighting for scraps. They refuse to see the whole picture.
I asked previously what do you consider a decent wage? What skill set do you see for that wage? Maybe you just missed that post.
That's between the Businesses and their Workers. They have to work that out. Workers are a part of the Capitalism picture. But sadly, too many Americans have forgotten that. They've decided to deem Business Owners a special protected class, exempt from adhering to decent moral standards of behavior. The Workers are entitled to a seat at the table. Everyone should be in favor of that. So ridicule Fast Food Workers if you want, but also accept the fact they are entitled to a seat at the table. They are not Serfs. We are not a Serfdom.
You make some valid points. You clearly see both perspectives. We can agree to disagree on some issues. But at least you're attempting to consider both perspectives. Unfortunately, i see far too many with that "RAH RAH CORPORATIONS!!" mentality. They blindly approve of all immoral business practices. And those are usually the same people hopping up on their high horses to preach pious condemnation of workers just fighting for scraps. They refuse to see the whole picture.
I asked previously what do you consider a decent wage? What skill set do you see for that wage? Maybe you just missed that post.
That's between the Businesses and their Workers. They have to work that out. Workers are a part of the Capitalism picture. But sadly, too many Americans have forgotten that. They've decided to deem Business Owners a special protected class, exempt from adhering to decent moral standards of behavior. The Workers are entitled to a seat at the table. Everyone should be in favor of that. So ridicule Fast Food Workers if you want, but also accept the fact they are entitled to a seat at the table. They are not Serfs. We are not a Serfdom.
I asked previously what do you consider a decent wage? What skill set do you see for that wage? Maybe you just missed that post.
That's between the Businesses and their Workers. They have to work that out. Workers are a part of the Capitalism picture. But sadly, too many Americans have forgotten that. They've decided to deem Business Owners a special protected class, exempt from adhering to decent moral standards of behavior. The Workers are entitled to a seat at the table. Everyone should be in favor of that. So ridicule Fast Food Workers if you want, but also accept the fact they are entitled to a seat at the table. They are not Serfs. We are not a Serfdom.
That's between the Businesses and their Workers. They have to work that out.
Happens everyday in America.
So why do you continue to whine?
