Fixing America: 1st step...make military TRULY all-volunteer

[bucs90]

Just some thoughts on what I wish politicians would run on for 2016.

And one of them is that I wish they'd make the military all volunteer. TRULY all volunteer. What do I mean? I mean no contracts. If a military member refuses to do his job, or leaves, he is AWOL and could be thrown in jail.

It shouldn't be that way. It should be just like a police officer. You work at will. You can quit anytime you want. Do your job, and follow orders, or get fired and find a new job, but, no jail.

Why do that? Well, for one, I'm sick of the war loving radicals who say "we" need to go fight (insert country) everywhere in the world. When they say "we" they don't mean "we" they mean "they" as in the US troops. Our troops deserve better.

All these politicians and radical right wingers who clamor for wars....would they pick up that rifle and go fight if asked? HELL NO, but they'll preach that "we" need to "do something" about every craphole in the world.

Make it all volunteer, all the time. So, the ONLY time our military will fight....is when all our brave men and women decide its worth fighting.

When radicals on the right, or left, say we need to go intervene in Crapistan or wherever, but 60% of the Army says they just wont go do it, then there we go, instantly a smarter foreign policy.

DESCRETION. Its a tried and true way that for decades police depts. have been able to ignore stupid laws politicians pass or demand, because cops can just say "nope, not doing it".

Well, our men and women of the military deserve the same chance to say "Hey, Washington, this is fucking stupid, and we are NOT going to fight there, its not worth it".

I guarantee our foreign policy gets better, and if or when a REAL threat comes here....our military will destroy it without hesitation.

But God damn it, I'm sick of seeing our boys thrown into all these shitholes for no good reason, and face jail time if they dared to say no.

 

[USNavyVet]

Just some thoughts on what I wish politicians would run on for 2016.

And one of them is that I wish they'd make the military all volunteer. TRULY all volunteer. What do I mean? I mean no contracts. If a military member refuses to do his job, or leaves, he is AWOL and could be thrown in jail.

It shouldn't be that way. It should be just like a police officer. You work at will. You can quit anytime you want. Do your job, and follow orders, or get fired and find a new job, but, no jail.

Why do that? Well, for one, I'm sick of the war loving radicals who say "we" need to go fight (insert country) everywhere in the world. When they say "we" they don't mean "we" they mean "they" as in the US troops. Our troops deserve better.

All these politicians and radical right wingers who clamor for wars....would they pick up that rifle and go fight if asked? HELL NO, but they'll preach that "we" need to "do something" about every craphole in the world.

Make it all volunteer, all the time. So, the ONLY time our military will fight....is when all our brave men and women decide its worth fighting.

When radicals on the right, or left, say we need to go intervene in Crapistan or wherever, but 60% of the Army says they just wont go do it, then there we go, instantly a smarter foreign policy.

DESCRETION. Its a tried and true way that for decades police depts. have been able to ignore stupid laws politicians pass or demand, because cops can just say "nope, not doing it".

Well, our men and women of the military deserve the same chance to say "Hey, Washington, this is fucking stupid, and we are NOT going to fight there, its not worth it".

I guarantee our foreign policy gets better, and if or when a REAL threat comes here....our military will destroy it without hesitation.

But God damn it, I'm sick of seeing our boys thrown into all these shitholes for no good reason, and face jail time if they dared to say no.

What a terrible idea unless you can already speak Chinese or Russian.

 

[bucs90]

Just some thoughts on what I wish politicians would run on for 2016.

And one of them is that I wish they'd make the military all volunteer. TRULY all volunteer. What do I mean? I mean no contracts. If a military member refuses to do his job, or leaves, he is AWOL and could be thrown in jail.

It shouldn't be that way. It should be just like a police officer. You work at will. You can quit anytime you want. Do your job, and follow orders, or get fired and find a new job, but, no jail.

Why do that? Well, for one, I'm sick of the war loving radicals who say "we" need to go fight (insert country) everywhere in the world. When they say "we" they don't mean "we" they mean "they" as in the US troops. Our troops deserve better.

All these politicians and radical right wingers who clamor for wars....would they pick up that rifle and go fight if asked? HELL NO, but they'll preach that "we" need to "do something" about every craphole in the world.

Make it all volunteer, all the time. So, the ONLY time our military will fight....is when all our brave men and women decide its worth fighting.

When radicals on the right, or left, say we need to go intervene in Crapistan or wherever, but 60% of the Army says they just wont go do it, then there we go, instantly a smarter foreign policy.

DESCRETION. Its a tried and true way that for decades police depts. have been able to ignore stupid laws politicians pass or demand, because cops can just say "nope, not doing it".

Well, our men and women of the military deserve the same chance to say "Hey, Washington, this is fucking stupid, and we are NOT going to fight there, its not worth it".

I guarantee our foreign policy gets better, and if or when a REAL threat comes here....our military will destroy it without hesitation.

But God damn it, I'm sick of seeing our boys thrown into all these shitholes for no good reason, and face jail time if they dared to say no.

What a terrible idea unless you can already speak Chinese or Russian.

Well, I assume you are a veteran, going by your screen name as a US Navy vet.

And I'll plead 100% ignorance, as I was never in the military. I was a cop for 8 years. And I'm a VERY big supporter of the military. I worked with many reservists and vets, and have family and friends who did also. And I personally get sick when I see some politician or 50 year old idiot bitching about how we need to go fight these people or this country. They say "WE" knowing THEY aren't going anywhere, but the folks in the military will be doing the fighting.

So, I defer to you on it, why is this a bad idea? It works well for police. They may get orders that they don't like, but, its not worth losing their job over to disobey so they do it. In my mind, I'd think the military could be the same way.

But you'd obviously know far more, and I honestly would like to hear your opinion and other vets opinions on why it would be bad?

I just think the military gets abused by morons in political office. BUT, you guys are the ones deploying, not us, so I'd love to hear how you feel on it. As for Russia and China........if they invaded, I'm 100% sure our military would destroy them before they ever landed on our shores. And if not, those countries would be fighting more than just the military on US soil.

 

[ron4342]

Just some thoughts on what I wish politicians would run on for 2016.

And one of them is that I wish they'd make the military all volunteer. TRULY all volunteer. What do I mean? I mean no contracts. If a military member refuses to do his job, or leaves, he is AWOL and could be thrown in jail.

It shouldn't be that way. It should be just like a police officer. You work at will. You can quit anytime you want. Do your job, and follow orders, or get fired and find a new job, but, no jail.

Why do that? Well, for one, I'm sick of the war loving radicals who say "we" need to go fight (insert country) everywhere in the world. When they say "we" they don't mean "we" they mean "they" as in the US troops. Our troops deserve better.

All these politicians and radical right wingers who clamor for wars....would they pick up that rifle and go fight if asked? HELL NO, but they'll preach that "we" need to "do something" about every craphole in the world.

Make it all volunteer, all the time. So, the ONLY time our military will fight....is when all our brave men and women decide its worth fighting.

When radicals on the right, or left, say we need to go intervene in Crapistan or wherever, but 60% of the Army says they just wont go do it, then there we go, instantly a smarter foreign policy.

DESCRETION. Its a tried and true way that for decades police depts. have been able to ignore stupid laws politicians pass or demand, because cops can just say "nope, not doing it".

Well, our men and women of the military deserve the same chance to say "Hey, Washington, this is fucking stupid, and we are NOT going to fight there, its not worth it".

I guarantee our foreign policy gets better, and if or when a REAL threat comes here....our military will destroy it without hesitation.

But God damn it, I'm sick of seeing our boys thrown into all these shitholes for no good reason, and face jail time if they dared to say no.

Your idea for a volunteer military would just not work. Troops being able to walk away at will would quickly reduce the military to an uncontrollable rabble. Neither would a conscripted military work. We saw how the blow back in Vietnam forced the US to end the war. The only reason we left Vietnam is because of the marches and protests by the people.
The following is just speculation on my part and may be completely in error. I believe the military/industrial complex (MIC) controls many in Congress. Most, but not all, are on the republican side of the aisle. The MIC also knows what I posted above about volunteerism and conscription working against their interests. What the MIC wants is a steady stream of people who are forced to join the military for financial reasons. This occurs when there are few jobs outside of the military and when wages are kept low. This is exactly what the gop is working for. They do not want a jobs bill and they do not want a higher minimum wage. Who benefits from this situation? Clearly it is the MIC because when this happens people join the military of necessity due to the fact that there are no other choices available.

 

[USNavyVet]

Just some thoughts on what I wish politicians would run on for 2016.

And one of them is that I wish they'd make the military all volunteer. TRULY all volunteer. What do I mean? I mean no contracts. If a military member refuses to do his job, or leaves, he is AWOL and could be thrown in jail.

It shouldn't be that way. It should be just like a police officer. You work at will. You can quit anytime you want. Do your job, and follow orders, or get fired and find a new job, but, no jail.

Why do that? Well, for one, I'm sick of the war loving radicals who say "we" need to go fight (insert country) everywhere in the world. When they say "we" they don't mean "we" they mean "they" as in the US troops. Our troops deserve better.

All these politicians and radical right wingers who clamor for wars....would they pick up that rifle and go fight if asked? HELL NO, but they'll preach that "we" need to "do something" about every craphole in the world.

Make it all volunteer, all the time. So, the ONLY time our military will fight....is when all our brave men and women decide its worth fighting.

When radicals on the right, or left, say we need to go intervene in Crapistan or wherever, but 60% of the Army says they just wont go do it, then there we go, instantly a smarter foreign policy.

DESCRETION. Its a tried and true way that for decades police depts. have been able to ignore stupid laws politicians pass or demand, because cops can just say "nope, not doing it".

Well, our men and women of the military deserve the same chance to say "Hey, Washington, this is fucking stupid, and we are NOT going to fight there, its not worth it".

I guarantee our foreign policy gets better, and if or when a REAL threat comes here....our military will destroy it without hesitation.

But God damn it, I'm sick of seeing our boys thrown into all these shitholes for no good reason, and face jail time if they dared to say no.

What a terrible idea unless you can already speak Chinese or Russian.

Well, I assume you are a veteran, going by your screen name as a US Navy vet.

And I'll plead 100% ignorance, as I was never in the military. I was a cop for 8 years. And I'm a VERY big supporter of the military. I worked with many reservists and vets, and have family and friends who did also. And I personally get sick when I see some politician or 50 year old idiot bitching about how we need to go fight these people or this country. They say "WE" knowing THEY aren't going anywhere, but the folks in the military will be doing the fighting.

So, I defer to you on it, why is this a bad idea? It works well for police. They may get orders that they don't like, but, its not worth losing their job over to disobey so they do it. In my mind, I'd think the military could be the same way.

But you'd obviously know far more, and I honestly would like to hear your opinion and other vets opinions on why it would be bad?

I just think the military gets abused by morons in political office. BUT, you guys are the ones deploying, not us, so I'd love to hear how you feel on it. As for Russia and China........if they invaded, I'm 100% sure our military would destroy them before they ever landed on our shores. And if not, those countries would be fighting more than just the military on US soil.

Yes, politicians (all of them) are assholes. John IneversawawarIdidn'tlike McCain is owned by the weapons makers so he's always shouting about bombing someone. And of course there are others.

As to allowing military personnel to just walk off the job. Yes the job is stressful at times. Sometimes you don't get much sleep. You get cranky. You run drill after drill between standing watch and trying to sleep. But if a person could just quit whenever they wanted then we would not have a force that was trained well. Also if a combat situation came up and I said screw it, I'm not going to shoot, a lot of people could die. And if I quit in the middle of the Atlantic ocean or in Afghanistan, is it the military's job to send me home or am I on my own? There are many good reason why the military signs contracts and there are pros and cons to it. I did 20 years but I know there were times where if I could have quit on the spot I would have. And that would have been a bad idea for myself and for the Navy and my people who relied on me. We're not police officers. We're the US Military and we have a higher standard and a higher calling.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

Just some thoughts on what I wish politicians would run on for 2016.

And one of them is that I wish they'd make the military all volunteer. TRULY all volunteer. What do I mean? I mean no contracts. If a military member refuses to do his job, or leaves, he is AWOL and could be thrown in jail.

It shouldn't be that way. It should be just like a police officer. You work at will. Y

We already have the no-contract solution, it's called the Militia, and it can only be compelled to serve during a time of invasion (not simply a "time of war").

 

[Freewill]

As with our military today I volunteered knowing full well what I was getting into.

Would the policy apply to war time, assuming you think there are times we are at war? Cause if it did then who in their right mind would stay in? Who would charge the beaches at Normandy? Hell they would all go home.

Nope, it is the way it is leave it alone. If a person really wanted out it is not that hard.

 

[bucs90]

Just some thoughts on what I wish politicians would run on for 2016.

And one of them is that I wish they'd make the military all volunteer. TRULY all volunteer. What do I mean? I mean no contracts. If a military member refuses to do his job, or leaves, he is AWOL and could be thrown in jail.

It shouldn't be that way. It should be just like a police officer. You work at will. You can quit anytime you want. Do your job, and follow orders, or get fired and find a new job, but, no jail.

Why do that? Well, for one, I'm sick of the war loving radicals who say "we" need to go fight (insert country) everywhere in the world. When they say "we" they don't mean "we" they mean "they" as in the US troops. Our troops deserve better.

All these politicians and radical right wingers who clamor for wars....would they pick up that rifle and go fight if asked? HELL NO, but they'll preach that "we" need to "do something" about every craphole in the world.

Make it all volunteer, all the time. So, the ONLY time our military will fight....is when all our brave men and women decide its worth fighting.

When radicals on the right, or left, say we need to go intervene in Crapistan or wherever, but 60% of the Army says they just wont go do it, then there we go, instantly a smarter foreign policy.

DESCRETION. Its a tried and true way that for decades police depts. have been able to ignore stupid laws politicians pass or demand, because cops can just say "nope, not doing it".

Well, our men and women of the military deserve the same chance to say "Hey, Washington, this is fucking stupid, and we are NOT going to fight there, its not worth it".

I guarantee our foreign policy gets better, and if or when a REAL threat comes here....our military will destroy it without hesitation.

But God damn it, I'm sick of seeing our boys thrown into all these shitholes for no good reason, and face jail time if they dared to say no.

Your idea for a volunteer military would just not work. Troops being able to walk away at will would quickly reduce the military to an uncontrollable rabble. Neither would a conscripted military work. We saw how the blow back in Vietnam forced the US to end the war. The only reason we left Vietnam is because of the marches and protests by the people.
The following is just speculation on my part and may be completely in error. I believe the military/industrial complex (MIC) controls many in Congress. Most, but not all, are on the republican side of the aisle. The MIC also knows what I posted above about volunteerism and conscription working against their interests. What the MIC wants is a steady stream of people who are forced to join the military for financial reasons. This occurs when there are few jobs outside of the military and when wages are kept low. This is exactly what the gop is working for. They do not want a jobs bill and they do not want a higher minimum wage. Who benefits from this situation? Clearly it is the MIC because when this happens people join the military of necessity due to the fact that there are no other choices available.

If the troops could say no, we never would've had a Vietnam War. Or it would've been much shorter.

I agree with the 2nd half of your post.

 

[Moonglow]

Even George Washington made the volunteers sign up for a committed duration...

 

[deltex1]

What a wonderful idea...you get an order you don't like...so you can quit and go home with no consequences. Iran launches a nuke at Israel...the president(obviously not this one) gives the order to strike Tehran. Your ten nuke missiles are selected to launch. You throw your keys on the launch console and call mommy. You gotta be shitting me.

 

[bucs90]

What a terrible idea unless you can already speak Chinese or Russian.

Well, I assume you are a veteran, going by your screen name as a US Navy vet.

And I'll plead 100% ignorance, as I was never in the military. I was a cop for 8 years. And I'm a VERY big supporter of the military. I worked with many reservists and vets, and have family and friends who did also. And I personally get sick when I see some politician or 50 year old idiot bitching about how we need to go fight these people or this country. They say "WE" knowing THEY aren't going anywhere, but the folks in the military will be doing the fighting.

So, I defer to you on it, why is this a bad idea? It works well for police. They may get orders that they don't like, but, its not worth losing their job over to disobey so they do it. In my mind, I'd think the military could be the same way.

But you'd obviously know far more, and I honestly would like to hear your opinion and other vets opinions on why it would be bad?

I just think the military gets abused by morons in political office. BUT, you guys are the ones deploying, not us, so I'd love to hear how you feel on it. As for Russia and China........if they invaded, I'm 100% sure our military would destroy them before they ever landed on our shores. And if not, those countries would be fighting more than just the military on US soil.

Yes, politicians (all of them) are assholes. John IneversawawarIdidn'tlike McCain is owned by the weapons makers so he's always shouting about bombing someone. And of course there are others.

As to allowing military personnel to just walk off the job. Yes the job is stressful at times. Sometimes you don't get much sleep. You get cranky. You run drill after drill between standing watch and trying to sleep. But if a person could just quit whenever they wanted then we would not have a force that was trained well. Also if a combat situation came up and I said screw it, I'm not going to shoot, a lot of people could die. And if I quit in the middle of the Atlantic ocean or in Afghanistan, is it the military's job to send me home or am I on my own? There are many good reason why the military signs contracts and there are pros and cons to it. I did 20 years but I know there were times where if I could have quit on the spot I would have. And that would have been a bad idea for myself and for the Navy and my people who relied on me. We're not police officers. We're the US Military and we have a higher standard and a higher calling.

Good post, you would know better than most of us.

As for the last sentence...both groups protect American citizens and risk their lives. And as you put it....deal with stress, bad sleep habits, frustration and stupid politicians.

But to your point....PD's do lose a lot of good, well trained officers who get tired of it or feel it isn't worth it anymore and just quit one day. So, that's a good point, retaining good personnel.

 

[JoeB131]

Bucs, I have to disagree with you, i think that holding people to a contract is really the only method to instill discipline.

Particularly when you are talking about young people who don't have a lot of it to start with.

 

[Rocko]

Bad idea. It would make America weaker. If we got ourselves into a war many needed soldiers would quit. Bad idea and it will never be implemented.

 

[bucs90]

What a wonderful idea...you get an order you don't like...so you can quit and go home with no consequences. Iran launches a nuke at Israel...the president(obviously not this one) gives the order to strike Tehran. Your ten nuke missiles are selected to launch. You throw your keys on the launch console and call mommy. You gotta be shitting me.

I would hope, even now, we have people manning nuclear missile launch sites that have the ability in their hearts to risk their jobs to say "NO" when asked to launch a nuke.

In fact, I bet most of our military would say "NO" if the hypothetical order came down to "Go door to door and confiscate all the guns in the United States citizenry".

Anyway. Im just sick of hearing people like John McCain and other morons preaching about how "we" need to do something militarily about the Ukraine/Russia situation. As if THEY are gonna be the ones picking up a gun.

Our troops deserve better. And they aren't even getting the proper care when they return home. Im sick of seeing it, and I've never even been in the military.

 

[bucs90]

Bucs, I have to disagree with you, i think that holding people to a contract is really the only method to instill discipline.

Particularly when you are talking about young people who don't have a lot of it to start with.

Another good point, the average age of those fighting our wars is quite young, and they are very different than a 30+ year old.

Guess my gripe is the moron politicians making decisions that screw over our military folks more so than the structure of the military and its contracts.

 

[jillian]

Just some thoughts on what I wish politicians would run on for 2016..

how would letting people skip out on their military service "fix" america?

you want the training and you want us to invest money in giving you skills, you sign a contract. otherwise you're useless because you're going to take off the minute it gets hot.

 

[bucs90]

Just some thoughts on what I wish politicians would run on for 2016..

how would letting people skip out on their military service "fix" america?

you want the training and you want us to invest money in giving you skills, you sign a contract. otherwise you're useless because you're going to take off the minute it gets hot.

It wouldn't be skipping out. It would simply be quitting a job, like anyone else can. It may prevent dickheads like John McCain and others under the defense lobbyist payroll from begging for yet another war against another country that poses us no immediate threat. And another generation of brave vets who fought....only to be denied care once they get home.

If the United States ever came under a true, REAL, legitimate, immediate threat from a foreign nation, I have no doubt that every single person in the military would fight until victory was won. Like any war, a few would not, some would find ways out. That happens already. But under a REAL threat, the military and millions of armed citizens would fight.

I just think we need to stop sending our troops into places that don't threaten us. Especially if we aren't gonna take care of them when they get back.

 

[ron4342]

Just some thoughts on what I wish politicians would run on for 2016.

And one of them is that I wish they'd make the military all volunteer. TRULY all volunteer. What do I mean? I mean no contracts. If a military member refuses to do his job, or leaves, he is AWOL and could be thrown in jail.

It shouldn't be that way. It should be just like a police officer. You work at will. You can quit anytime you want. Do your job, and follow orders, or get fired and find a new job, but, no jail.

Why do that? Well, for one, I'm sick of the war loving radicals who say "we" need to go fight (insert country) everywhere in the world. When they say "we" they don't mean "we" they mean "they" as in the US troops. Our troops deserve better.

All these politicians and radical right wingers who clamor for wars....would they pick up that rifle and go fight if asked? HELL NO, but they'll preach that "we" need to "do something" about every craphole in the world.

Make it all volunteer, all the time. So, the ONLY time our military will fight....is when all our brave men and women decide its worth fighting.

When radicals on the right, or left, say we need to go intervene in Crapistan or wherever, but 60% of the Army says they just wont go do it, then there we go, instantly a smarter foreign policy.

DESCRETION. Its a tried and true way that for decades police depts. have been able to ignore stupid laws politicians pass or demand, because cops can just say "nope, not doing it".

Well, our men and women of the military deserve the same chance to say "Hey, Washington, this is fucking stupid, and we are NOT going to fight there, its not worth it".

I guarantee our foreign policy gets better, and if or when a REAL threat comes here....our military will destroy it without hesitation.

But God damn it, I'm sick of seeing our boys thrown into all these shitholes for no good reason, and face jail time if they dared to say no.

Your idea for a volunteer military would just not work. Troops being able to walk away at will would quickly reduce the military to an uncontrollable rabble. Neither would a conscripted military work. We saw how the blow back in Vietnam forced the US to end the war. The only reason we left Vietnam is because of the marches and protests by the people.
The following is just speculation on my part and may be completely in error. I believe the military/industrial complex (MIC) controls many in Congress. Most, but not all, are on the republican side of the aisle. The MIC also knows what I posted above about volunteerism and conscription working against their interests. What the MIC wants is a steady stream of people who are forced to join the military for financial reasons. This occurs when there are few jobs outside of the military and when wages are kept low. This is exactly what the gop is working for. They do not want a jobs bill and they do not want a higher minimum wage. Who benefits from this situation? Clearly it is the MIC because when this happens people join the military of necessity due to the fact that there are no other choices available.

If the troops could say no, we never would've had a Vietnam War. Or it would've been much shorter.

I agree with the 2nd half of your post.

In WW2 there was a relatively short period of basic training to prepare soldiers for the field. But think how much war has changed from WW2 until now. Today's soldiers have to not only learn battle skills, they must work with complex electronic and communication systems. The time it takes to go from a new recruit to a qualified soldier takes much, much more time due to the technology involved. If highly skilled soldiers can just quit and walk off the field when they feel like it the effectiveness of the unit can be completely compromised. The idea of a citizen soldier putting down his shovel to go and fight when they feel like it is not practical in today's complex world.

 

[bucs90]

you want the training and you want us to invest money in giving you skills, you sign a contract. otherwise you're useless because you're going to take off the minute it gets hot.

I just don't think most of them would do that. Look at the high rate of re-enlistment we hear about, even at the peak of wars. But then again, LOTS of our military believed in the Iraq/Afghan wars, and they fought it bravely.

I wonder how many think we should be on the Ukraine/Russian border, like some war hawks are suggesting?

 

[deltex1]

What a wonderful idea...you get an order you don't like...so you can quit and go home with no consequences. Iran launches a nuke at Israel...the president(obviously not this one) gives the order to strike Tehran. Your ten nuke missiles are selected to launch. You throw your keys on the launch console and call mommy. You gotta be shitting me.

I would hope, even now, we have people manning nuclear missile launch sites that have the ability in their hearts to risk their jobs to say "NO" when asked to launch a nuke.

In fact, I bet most of our military would say "NO" if the hypothetical order came down to "Go door to door and confiscate all the guns in the United States citizenry".

Anyway. Im just sick of hearing people like John McCain and other morons preaching about how "we" need to do something militarily about the Ukraine/Russia situation. As if THEY are gonna be the ones picking up a gun.

Our troops deserve better. And they aren't even getting the proper care when they return home. Im sick of seeing it, and I've never even been in the military.

If they refused they would be courts martialed and sent to prison. The military is not like any other organization. You take the oath...you obey lawful orders...you do not quit...you go forward...it can't be any other way. If you survive you retire at a young age with lifetime security. Sure worked for me.