Florida high school students stage second amendment support walkout

[Pop23]

Perhaps outlawing murder inducing prescription Meds is better than outlawing guns

Legalize pot and you end the opioid epidemic overnight.

^^^^^ Trying to save face. Cute

 

[The Derp]

You talk miles of bullshit without anything to back it up, fuck off, Mr. WolfTickets.

I did back it up, right here dingus:

'Hot' Guns Fueling Crime, US Study Says
Guns are a top target for home burglars looking for something they can easily sell on the street.

An estimated 230,000 guns per year are stolen in home burglaries and property crimes, according to a study by the Department of Justice.

"Any burglar that goes in a house and finds guns, their eyes are going to light up," says former ATF Assistant Director Mike Bouchard. "That's the first thing they're going to take."

The statistics for commercial thefts show that nearly 25,000 guns per year are lost or stolen ​

A) prove that 230K guns are stolen in the US every year.

See above.

Here's a link that says different:GUN WATCH: How Many Guns are Stolen and Destroyed each Year?

Actually, your link doesn't say that. It doesn't say anything other than "Their study shows 145 thousand victimizations involving the theft of a firearm in 2010. As more than one firearm is averaged for each theft, the study notes that an average of 232,000 guns were stolen in each year from 2005 to 2010. This is consistent with the NCIC numbers"

THAT'S FROM YOUR OWN FUCKING LINK which is exactly what I said!

LOL!

So my question is; are you too fucking lazy or stupid to know what you're posting?

 

[westwall]

Perhaps outlawing murder inducing prescription Meds is better than outlawing guns

Legalize pot and you end the opioid epidemic overnight.

Legalize ALL drugs and turn it into a medical problem instead of a legal problem and you end most violent crime as well. Far better, and cheaper for society, and the people who want help can actually get it. It ends the prison/industrial complex as well. Win/win.

 

[The Derp]

Overwhelmed? No

You wouldn't know that listening to your fellow Nazis in Europe talk about the immigrants.

but as the numbers have gone up so too has the violent crime rate, and the gun crime rate, in spite of every law you all fantasize about, has skyrocketed.

Yeah, poverty usually brings a crime component with it.

 

[The Derp]

Wrong, I responded to what Prohibition did

Which was a non-sequitur because alcohol is something you consume, whereas guns are something you use to kill and/or maim.

So that's why bringing up Prohibition was a non-sequitur, whatabout, and distraction all rolled into one giant ball of shit.

I din't take the discussion in that direction.

Yes you did! That's exactly what you did. You tried to whatabout with Prohibition and because you assume everyone is just as lazy as you, didn't expect me to say that alcohol is a consumable and guns aren't.

No, they get the guns from Venezuela.

NO THEY FUCKING DON'T.

They get guns from the US...that's what Fast & Furious was all about and why Bush the Dumber started the program. Mexican cartels end up with US-made weapons. From where do US-made weapons come? From the US. Venezuela is at war with drug cartels in its own borders, why would they arm and supply Mexican Cartels? You make no sense.

This is well known

And that's usually red flag #1 that you're making shit up; you say it's "well known" which is right-wing code for "I just made that up".

Why spend hundreds to thousands of dollars for a rifle from the US, when you can buy a fully automatic machine gun from Venezuela for a third the price?

1. Venezuela isn't selling guns as a retailer in Mexico
2. You're gonna need to prove this assertion because it sounds made up
3. Our own ATF and DOJ say that American guns end up in the hands of cartels...

From that link: More than 70,000 guns recovered from crime scenes in Mexico between 2009 and 2014 could be traced back to the United States, according to a new report from the U.S. Government Accountability Office. That represents 70 percent of all crime guns recovered and traced in Mexico during that period.​

 

[The Derp]

Legalize ALL drugs and turn it into a medical problem instead of a legal problem and you end most violent crime as well..

I agree! We should do that. I've been advocating that for years. I think all drugs should be legal, regulated, and taxed by the state.

Far better, and cheaper for society, and the people who want help can actually get it. It ends the prison/industrial complex as well. Win/win.

On this, you and I are in 100% alignment.

 

[westwall]

Wrong, I responded to what Prohibition did

Which was a non-sequitur because alcohol is something you consume, whereas guns are something you use to kill and/or maim.

So that's why bringing up Prohibition was a non-sequitur, whatabout, and distraction all rolled into one giant ball of shit.

I din't take the discussion in that direction.

Yes you did! That's exactly what you did. You tried to whatabout with Prohibition and because you assume everyone is just as lazy as you, didn't expect me to say that alcohol is a consumable and guns aren't.

No, they get the guns from Venezuela.

NO THEY FUCKING DON'T.

They get guns from the US...that's what Fast & Furious was all about and why Bush the Dumber started the program. Mexican cartels end up with US-made weapons. From where do US-made weapons come? From the US. Venezuela is at war with drug cartels in its own borders, why would they arm and supply Mexican Cartels? You make no sense.

This is well known

And that's usually red flag #1 that you're making shit up; you say it's "well known" which is right-wing code for "I just made that up".

Why spend hundreds to thousands of dollars for a rifle from the US, when you can buy a fully automatic machine gun from Venezuela for a third the price?

1. Venezuela isn't selling guns as a retailer in Mexico
2. You're gonna need to prove this assertion because it sounds made up
3. Our own ATF and DOJ say that American guns end up in the hands of cartels...from that link: More than 70,000 guns recovered from crime scenes in Mexico between 2009 and 2014 could be traced back to the United States, according to a new report from the U.S. Government Accountability Office. That represents 70 percent of all crime guns recovered and traced in Mexico during that period.

Yeah, no.. Fast and Furious was the only way those expensive weapons could get to Mexico, the American taxpayer PAID for them. The drug cartels are cheap pricks who get the real machineguns, for far less money from further south. Even the LA Times had a story on it. They also claim that 200,000 some odd weapons are trafficked from the US, but provide no evidence to support that claim. There is no doubt that weapons are trafficked to Mexico, from the USA. But that number, based on observed data, is much lower than the claim.





The Latin American gun leak

Although some arms and ammunition were undoubtedly illegally trafficked from the United States, and Latin American authorities routinely blame shadowy foreign arms dealers for running guns to Central and South America, the real source is probably much closer to home: local military and police arsenals. A good example of this can be found in the case of a Salvadoran officer who was sentenced in November for selling about 50 weapons on the black market, including four AR-15s, the commercial version of the U.S.-made M16 assault rifle. All of them were siphoned from Salvadoran army stores.


The Latin American gun leak

 

[jc456]

75 kids for 20 minutes

but we get five kids for months? hahahaahahahahaha thanks for your hypocrisy

 

[westwall]

Overwhelmed? No

You wouldn't know that listening to your fellow Nazis in Europe talk about the immigrants.

but as the numbers have gone up so too has the violent crime rate, and the gun crime rate, in spite of every law you all fantasize about, has skyrocketed.

Yeah, poverty usually brings a crime component with it.

No, it's their culture. They resort of violence far more than First World people do. It is as simple as that.

 

[The Derp]

Fast and Furious was the only way those expensive weapons could get to Mexico, the American taxpayer PAID for them.

OMG...no you fool...those guns were getting into Mexico prior to the program. The entire point of the program was to find out how. Wow. Imagine how damaged your brain must be to think that no guns were getting into Mexico prior to F&F and that Venezuela (!) was the one supplying them.

Secondly, we've learned that 70% of all guns used in crimes in Mexico are traced back to the USA...so much for your Venezuela conspiracy theory.

hey also claim that 200,000 some odd weapons are trafficked from the US, but provide no evidence to support that claim. There is no doubt that weapons are trafficked to Mexico, from the USA. But that number, based on observed data, is much lower than the claim.

Well, considering that the GAO said 70,000 guns were recovered from crime scenes in Mexico that were traced back to the US, the 200,000 number isn't that hard to believe. 70% of all gun crimes in Mexico are done with US-made weapons. That's what the Government Accountability Office said in the article I linked.

 

[The Derp]

No, it's their culture. They resort of violence far more than First World people do. It is as simple as that.

They resort to violence just as much as poor people do in Western countries. Crime and poverty are intrinsically linked.

 

[2aguy]

Overwhelmed? No

You wouldn't know that listening to your fellow Nazis in Europe talk about the immigrants.

but as the numbers have gone up so too has the violent crime rate, and the gun crime rate, in spite of every law you all fantasize about, has skyrocketed.

Yeah, poverty usually brings a crime component with it.

No...crime causes poverty, poverty doesn't cause crime....you have it backwards.

 

[westwall]

Fast and Furious was the only way those expensive weapons could get to Mexico, the American taxpayer PAID for them.

OMG...no you fool...those guns were getting into Mexico prior to the program. The entire point of the program was to find out how. Wow. Imagine how damaged your brain must be to think that no guns were getting into Mexico prior to F&F and that Venezuela (!) was the one supplying them.

Secondly, we've learned that 70% of all guns used in crimes in Mexico are traced back to the USA...so much for your Venezuela conspiracy theory.

hey also claim that 200,000 some odd weapons are trafficked from the US, but provide no evidence to support that claim. There is no doubt that weapons are trafficked to Mexico, from the USA. But that number, based on observed data, is much lower than the claim.

Well, considering that the GAO said 70,000 guns were recovered from crime scenes in Mexico that were traced back to the US, the 200,000 number isn't that hard to believe. 70% of all gun crimes in Mexico are done with US-made weapons. That's what the Government Accountability Office said in the article I linked.

We have always known how. The supposed "idea was to track the guns. The problem being there was no effort to actually track the guns from point of source to cartel. There was no attempt at a chain of evidence. It was a farce. it was merely an effort to flood the cartels with US weapons so that the obummer admin could scream "we have to ban guns in america so that the mexicans won't get killed by them".

 

[westwall]

No, it's their culture. They resort of violence far more than First World people do. It is as simple as that.

They resort to violence just as much as poor people do in Western countries. Crime and poverty are intrinsically linked.

Not even close dude. Not even close. Latin America has 9% of the worlds population but is responsible for 27% of the worlds murders. That is culture dude, and nothing more.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Yeah, it's a good thing the once of us that were horribly bullied, were also NOT on antidepressants and/or ADHA medications. Hell, there might not be a single person left.

Better Apocalypse through pharmaceuticals is what I say!

I'm not sure where this theory is coming from. I've known plenty of teens and young adults on ADHD and antidepressant medication and they weren't homicidal at all. Sometimes doctors attempt to medicate severe behavior problems that should probably be institutionalized for awhile, and maybe that makes it seem that people on medication go nuts. But I think it's more likely that the "nuts" just won out in those cases.

No ones making it up:

Antidepressants Are a Prescription for Mass Shootings – Citizens Commission on Human Rights, CCHR

From the link:

Subsequently, mass shootings and other violent incidents started to be reported. More often than not, the common denominator was that the shooters were on an antidepressant, or withdrawing from one. This is not about an isolated incident or two but numerous shootings. The question is, during the past twenty years is the use of antidepressants here a coincidence or a causation?

There have been too many mass shootings for it just to be a coincidence. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold killed twelve students and a teacher at Columbine High School. Eric was on Luvox, an antidepressant. The Virginia Tech shooter killed thirty-two people and he was on an antidepressant. While withdrawing from Prozac, Kip Kinkel murdered his mother and stepmother. He then shot twenty-two classmates and killed two. Jason Hoffman wounded five at his high school while he was on Effexor, also an antidepressant. James Holmes opened fire in a Colorado movie theater this past summer and killed twelve people and wounded fifty-eight. He was under the care of a psychiatrist but no information has been released as to what drug he must have been on.

Psychiatrists generally will tell you that these people were mentally ill and they weren’t treated in time or didn’t get enough help to prevent the tragedy. However, Dr. Peter Breggin, who is a psychiatrist, stated that depression rarely leads to violence and that it’s only since the SSRI’s came on the market that such mass shootings have taken place.

In a study of thirty-one drugs that are disproportionately linked to reports of violence toward others, five of the top ten are antidepressants. These are Prozac, Paxil, Luvox, Effexor and Pristiq. Two other drugs that are for treating ADHD are also in the top ten which means these are being given to children who could then become violent. One could conclude from this study alone that antidepressants cause both suicidal thoughts and violent behavior. This is a prescription for mass shootings.

No one can talk their way out of explaining how a person who is previously non-violent and given antidepressants suddenly becomes violent or suicidal. There are multiple cases of children who have committed suicide days after starting to take an antidepressant. In a YouTube video, various parents tell their story about what the antidepressants did to their kids.


My Son came to live with us when he was 15. He was on ADHA meds and was a complete basket case. Angry was not even close to the word anyone would use. Our Doctor weened him from them and within months he became a model young man.

I actually could have seen him go off half cocked one day. If he had been bullied during that time, all bets would have been off.

I understand where you're coming from now, Pop. It is absolutely true that those drugs can have side effects including suicidal/homicidal just-plain-nuts behavior. I saw it happen a couple of times to teen clients that had been switched to one of those anti depressants from the recommended one due to cost (Medicaid didn't want to pay for it). Every psychiatrist who has spoken about school shootings references the common denominator of depresssion; that's no secret and everyone is aware of it. Suicide and homicide are two sides of the same coin. I don't necessarily think the meds alone are the cause, though. The meds are present, if they are present, in an attempt to address the depression or behavior (trauma often manifests as ADHD) and it didn't work. When someone dies of cancer, they have chemo in their system, but the chemo didn't cause the death. You see what I mean?
If Cruz, Lanza and the Columbine shooters were on meds, please link to that.

Yet, per the link, depression rarely causes violence. I think when you medicate a young, not fully developed brain, and that brain is affixed to someone undergoing years of bullying, you then have a recipe for murder.

For all the uproar, there have been how many school shootings involving teens? Three in ten years? Quite rare, I'd say.
Were Cruz, Lanza and the Columbine shooters on meds or coming off meds?

Yes. So why do you wanna take away everybody's guns OldLady ?

What kind of fuckery is this?

 

[The Derp]

We have always known how. The supposed "idea was to track the guns. The problem being there was no effort to actually track the guns from point of source to cartel. .

I'm not saying it was a good plan, just that it was a plan. It was enough of a problem that they tried to figure out how it was happening. You can disagree with the tactics, but the goal was to figure out how US guns end up in Mexican cartels, and there's really no better way to figure that out than by trying to trace guns on their way there. If you have a better idea, I'd love to hear it.

There was no attempt at a chain of evidence. It was a farce. it was merely an effort to flood the cartels with US weapons so that the obummer admin could scream "we have to ban guns in america so that the mexicans won't get killed by them".

Will you stop with these whackadoo conspiracy theories. Firstly, the program started with Bush the Dumber, not Obama. Secondly, you may disagree with the tactics, but the goal was to find out how US guns end up in Mexican cartels.

 

[2aguy]

Fast and Furious was the only way those expensive weapons could get to Mexico, the American taxpayer PAID for them.

OMG...no you fool...those guns were getting into Mexico prior to the program. The entire point of the program was to find out how. Wow. Imagine how damaged your brain must be to think that no guns were getting into Mexico prior to F&F and that Venezuela (!) was the one supplying them.

Secondly, we've learned that 70% of all guns used in crimes in Mexico are traced back to the USA...so much for your Venezuela conspiracy theory.

hey also claim that 200,000 some odd weapons are trafficked from the US, but provide no evidence to support that claim. There is no doubt that weapons are trafficked to Mexico, from the USA. But that number, based on observed data, is much lower than the claim.

Well, considering that the GAO said 70,000 guns were recovered from crime scenes in Mexico that were traced back to the US, the 200,000 number isn't that hard to believe. 70% of all gun crimes in Mexico are done with US-made weapons. That's what the Government Accountability Office said in the article I linked.

Wrong....Fast and Furious was intended to plant American guns at Mexican crime scenes.....but they got caught doing it.

That number about American guns is wrong...those are guns that can actually be tracked, the majority can't be traced back anywhere.....

Here...Central America...

The 90% myth....

Mexico's Gun Supply and the 90 Percent Myth

By the Numbers
As we discussed in a previous analysis, the 90 percent number was derived from a June 2009 U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) report to Congress on U.S. efforts to combat arms trafficking to Mexico (see external link).

According to the GAO report, some 30,000 firearms were seized from criminals by Mexican authorities in 2008. Of these 30,000 firearms, information pertaining to 7,200 of them (24 percent) was submitted to the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) for tracing. Of these 7,200 guns, only about 4,000 could be traced by the ATF, and of these 4,000, some 3,480 (87 percent) were shown to have come from the United States.

This means that the 87 percent figure relates to the number of weapons submitted by the Mexican government to the ATF that could be successfully traced and not from the total number of weapons seized by Mexican authorities or even from the total number of weapons submitted to the ATF for tracing. In fact, the 3,480 guns positively traced to the United States equals less than 12 percent of the total arms seized in Mexico in 2008 and less than 48 percent of all those submitted by the Mexican government to the ATF for tracing. This means that almost 90 percent of the guns seized in Mexico in 2008 were not traced back to the United States.

The remaining 22,800 firearms seized by Mexican authorities in 2008 were not traced for a variety of reasons. In addition to factors such as bureaucratic barriers and negligence, many of the weapons seized by Mexican authorities either do not bear serial numbers or have had their serial numbers altered or obliterated. It is also important to understand that the Mexican authorities simply don't bother to submit some classes of weapons to the ATF for tracing. Such weapons include firearms they identify as coming from their own military or police forces, or guns that they can trace back themselves as being sold through the Mexican Defense Department's Arms and Ammunition Marketing Division (UCAM). Likewise, they do not ask ATF to trace military ordnance from third countries like the South Korean fragmentation grenades commonly used in cartel attacks.

Of course, some or even many of the 22,800 firearms the Mexicans did not submit to ATF for tracing may have originated in the United States. But according to the figures presented by the GAO, there is no evidence to support the assertion that 90 percent of the guns used by the Mexican cartels come from the United States — especially when not even 50 percent of those that were submitted for tracing were ultimately found to be of U.S. origin.

Report: Guns recovered in Central America traced to non-U.S. sources

Agents traced the majority of these recovered guns to foreign countries — or no source at all.

Over 71 percent of the 2,182 guns recovered in Honduras came from non-U.S. manufacturers, according to the report. Likewise, 60 percent of the 152 guns found in Panama, 53 percent of the 623 guns from Honduras and 51 percent of the 2,718 the guns recovered in El Salvador were traced to foreign manufacturers.

 

[The Derp]

Not even close dude. Not even close. Latin America has 9% of the worlds population but is responsible for 27% of the worlds murders. That is culture dude, and nothing more.

No, it's because of the steady supply of US guns that get into the region.

 

[westwall]

We have always known how. The supposed "idea was to track the guns. The problem being there was no effort to actually track the guns from point of source to cartel. .

I'm not saying it was a good plan, just that it was a plan. It was enough of a problem that they tried to figure out how it was happening. You can disagree with the tactics, but the goal was to figure out how US guns end up in Mexican cartels, and there's really no better way to figure that out than by trying to trace guns on their way there. If you have a better idea, I'd love to hear it.

There was no attempt at a chain of evidence. It was a farce. it was merely an effort to flood the cartels with US weapons so that the obummer admin could scream "we have to ban guns in america so that the mexicans won't get killed by them".

Will you stop with these whackadoo conspiracy theories. Firstly, the program started with Bush the Dumber, not Obama. Secondly, you may disagree with the tactics, but the goal was to find out how US guns end up in Mexican cartels.

It wasn't even a plan. It was merely sending guns south so they could collate deaths. That's all it was. They used taxpayer money to foment murder. How fucked up do you have to be to think that that was a good idea?

 

[westwall]

Not even close dude. Not even close. Latin America has 9% of the worlds population but is responsible for 27% of the worlds murders. That is culture dude, and nothing more.

No, it's because of the steady supply of US guns that get into the region.

Try again. Long, long, long before ANY guns form the USA got to Latin America that murder rate existed.