Fluke is not the "everywoman" portrayed by the media...

[The T]

The devil made him do it?

Society maybe?

Ummmm global warming?

He did it all by himself.

bosh... that implies personal responsibility. We all know the left doesn't believe in that.

They never have. Hell? They've taken the "Safetynet", and constructed HUD Housing.

 

[Nosmo King]

Who's trying to discredit Limbaugh? Huh... imagine that.

Limbaugh

Limbaugh did a mea-culpa for a moment being like the left...and apoligized for it.

I see ZERO apologies coming out of the left except from Ed Shultz for calling Laura Ingraham a slut.

Idiot.

Okay, I'm an idiot. I wonder who then made Limbaugh say those terrible things last week? Because if it was anyone but Limbaugh himself, it would be the first conspiracy in a long time I would follow to the very deepest secrets.

Shooting your mouth right into your own foot is to discrediting yourself as a fistful of pills and a quart of Scotch is to a suicide.

Unless, to quote one of the lost jesters of my generation, FLip Wilson; "The Devil made me do it!"

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Who cares? The consistency of their argument has absolutely zero to do with whether or not they have the right to object based upon it. Religious freedom means religious freedom, regardless of the logical merits of said religion.

I agree with your opinion that Catholics have what appear to be some glaring contradictions in their practices and philosophies. Where we differ is that I acknowledge that the protection of religious freedom is a protection of their right to practice in a manner that I might find stupid, contradictory, counter intuitive, or even downright offensive. Short of not allowing them to subjugate anyone who doesn't wish to participate in their practices, it's not the government's place to tell them how to behave or how to structure their faith. Also not my place. Not your place either.

Unless the practice they wish to engage in is discriminatory.

In which case it is unconstitutional, and therefore illegal.

In the case where the catholic church only focuses on women's contraception choices, and does not include other moral matters of an exactly similar nature, the Constitution definitely becomes an issue.

Unfortunately for that argument, you can't prove definitively that the practice is one of sexual discrimination.

Consider this, for instance. Viagra is taken in response to erectile dysfunction. Not all erectile dysfunction implies impotence. Some people are on blood pressure medication that makes it really hard to acquire/maintain a hard-on, but their tadpoles are still capable of hitting the water and Michael Phelps'ing their way to the egg. Some of these people are Catholics who believe that only sex for procreation is okay, and some of them are honestly attempting fertilization -every- time they pop their little blue pill and plug in.

On the other hand, consider a morning after pill. There is quite literally no use for this pill other than as a preventative measure to avoid pregnancy after sex, meaning that the sex was, for the person using the pill, purely casual and in no way an attempt to procreate.

One of these products can, potentially, be used in a manner that is in no way contradictory to popular Catholic practices. One of these cannot. I understand that this example doesn't cover every argument with every organization's objections, but it doesn't need to. Even if every single Catholic organization in question has a completely different interpretation of their doctrine and a completely different set of exact reasons for objecting, each one of these organizations has that right if it can't be proven, definitively, that their practice is one of sexual discrimination and not based upon one of the other many intricacies of this issue.

 

[Big Fitz]

That is certainly not my logic.

Nice backpeddling.

Nice attempt to put words in my mouth.



I was referring to Sarah Palin. You started talking about her spawn.

Personally I didn't care much for talk about Bristol myself, but since Ms Palin was a vice Presidential candidate who had a very specific position on contraception and abstinence, Sarah's own mothering skills were certainly open to the public eye.

Did anyone on the left call Bristol a "Prostitute" at the time for having a child out of wedlock? I think not.

Just pointing out the fact that Sarah Palin's own daughter did in fact have a child out of wedlock, despite Palin's position on the subject, is a far cry from calling her a whore.

That is, unless you're part of the right-wing morality police, I guess.

People on the left really don't often make morality judgements about unwed mothers, and the hypocrisy that was being pointed out was on the part of Sarah, not Bristol.



Holy shit, when did Seth Macfarlane become a mouthpiece for the Left Wing?

I must have missed that memo.

Somebody better tell his bosses over at NewsCorp.

Or Louie CK for that matter?

Yeah, I thought the Family Guy shtick was offensive. Just like every other Family Guy episode is offensive.

What dose that have to do with political commentary?

Now, would you like me to find all the hundreds of nasty things that Rush Limbaugh said about the Clinton family?

Talk to EdtheCretin. He's got em all hotlinked. I don't seem to recall him going so much after Chelsea till AFTER she was an adult and having a life of her own, and she's not a helpless child with downs Syndrome.

And not to mention, just because he did something horrible (in your mind) that you are justified in doing the same.... gasp! Just like I'm doing to you and you're whining like a little bitch about! Oh my!

I don't even know what you're talking about here. What am I supposedly whining like a bitch about again?

Wasn't it you who was whining and bitching about people making fun of the Palins?

You're right, I did talk just about Sarah for a while in relation to Bill Maher. BUT I also mentioned Trig and Bristol since you whined about the attacks on the Clintons darling little daughter.

Still waiting for the excoriation of Bill Maher for what he said towards Sarah. That demand for him to apologize and be removed from the air is... where?

 

[The T]

Limbaugh

Limbaugh did a mea-culpa for a moment being like the left...and apoligized for it.

I see ZERO apologies coming out of the left except from Ed Shultz for calling Laura Ingraham a slut.

Idiot.

Okay, I'm an idiot. I wonder who then made Limbaugh say those terrible things last week? Because if it was anyone but Limbaugh himself, it would be the first conspiracy in a long time I would follow to the very deepest secrets.

Shooting your mouth right into your own foot is to discrediting yourself as a fistful of pills and a quart of Scotch is to a suicide.

Unless, to quote one of the lost jesters of my generation, FLip Wilson; "The Devil made me do it!"

May I refer YOU to this site?

RIF

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Haha, we'll have to agree to disagree on that episode. Even some of the down syndrome jokes were funny, but I'm a nothing's sacred when it comes to comedy kinda guy.

I do agree quite a bit with your takes on Bill Maher and Rush Limbaugh. I suppose I agree with Limbaugh a little more often than with Maher, but both of those guys have pulled so hard to their respective party's talking points in the past that their partisan Koolaid left a really bad taste in my mouth.

Even for political commentators, though, while it might taint my opinion of who they are as people, I personally believe in giving them a moral pass on name calling. People that are willing to throw out a person's entire argument because someone they tend to agree with called that person a slut, the C word, etc, aside from being a big part of my reason for opposing MTV's "Get Out the Vote" campaign, are responsible for their own decision to do so. Willful ignorance is nobody's fault but the practitioner, despite his or her influences.

It's the same thing in all arenas. They've got studies that show that an increasing number of babies being born out of wedlock directly correlates with the increasing poverty in our country. Implication? If the government enforced a law that only married women could legally get pregnant, the overall economic effects on our country would be positive. Nevertheless, I would wholeheartedly oppose any legislation even suggesting such regulation.

Freedom first, baby!

I do see your point about name calling.

People should be allowed to call people they don't like a **** or an asshole all they like.

I think for me, in this particular case, and for so many other people that have a problem with this particular instance, is about the context of the name-calling.

In this instance, he wasn't just calling her a "whore".

He was saying that her viewpoint on this issue in particular made her a "whore" and a "prostitute", and that any woman who felt the same way was also a "whore" and a "prostitute".

There's a difference there.

If it was just an off-the-cuff, "she's a bitch", or something of that nature, it would not be NEARLY as offensive.

Sure, you might have some really sensitive people say something about it, with some bullshit PC point of view, but I sure as hell wouldn't care.

Yeah, it was definitely a stupid thing for Rush to say. That guy jams his foot in his mouth pretty often.

Especially when you consider all the ramifications. Rush has been playing politics for decades. For longer than I've been breathing oxygen. Whether you agree or disagree with Fluke, the fact is that she's attacking this from the position of it being a women's right. When most of the left mirrors that argument, you have to acknowledge that she's therefore widely accepted as a women's rights activist. If you acknowledge that she's widely accepted as a women's rights activist and then publicly call her a slut without expecting that a huge portion of the media's gonna be up in arms about it, and without expecting that there's going to be some major PR fallout, despite your decades of experience in the field of popular politics, there's no way around acknowledging that you've acted in the manner of what folks in my neighborhood refer to as a "dipshit".

 

[bripat9643]

So let me get this straight: You'd be OK with me calling your wife a slut and a prostitute, and demanding video of her schlepping someone, if I learned that she was an advocate for something I opposed?

Fluke isn't your wife, dipstick.

I swear to God, conservative men are going out of there way to piss off every daughter, mother, sister and grandmother in America. Keep it up, folks! Nice work. You know women are allowed vote, right? amiright?

So, if anyone criticizes a woman, ever, they are pissing off every daughter, mother, sister and grandmother in America? How about when Bill Maher called Michelle Malkin a c*nt?

The liberal double-standard is an appalling sight to behold.

 

[Ravi]

Of course she has an agenda, and she's had it since the day she enrolled. Her agenda is to force the church to conform.

Writes a Georgetown graduate and "former chief counsel of the House Subcommittee on the Constitution", Cathy Cleaver Ruse:

"I was not Catholic when I attended Georgetown Law, but I certainly knew the university was. So did Ms. Fluke. She told the Washington Post that she chose Georgetown knowing specifically that the school did not cover drugs that run contrary to Catholic teaching in its student health plans. During her law school years she was a president of "Students for Reproductive Justice" and made it her mission to get the school to give up one of the last remnants of its Catholicism. Ms. Fluke is not the "everywoman" portrayed in the media.
"Georgetown Law School has flung wide its doors to the secular world. It will tolerate and accommodate all manner of clubs and activities that run contrary to fundamental Catholic beliefs. But it is not inclined to pay for or provide them. And it has the right to do so—to say "this far and no further."

Cathy Ruse: Limbaugh and Our Phony Contraception Debate - WSJ.com

Dude. Every woman wants to be able to have sex with her significant other or husband without worrying about becoming pregnant every time.

Well, maybe not you....

 

[bripat9643]

So what?

So the left-wing faux outrage isn't fooling anyone.

 

[Big Fitz]

So what?

So the left-wing faux outrage isn't fooling anyone.

hell, it's not really fooling my parents. Both are strong libs. Maybe I'm finally curing them.

 

[mudwhistle]

So let me get this straight: You'd be OK with me calling your wife a slut and a prostitute, and demanding video of her schlepping someone, if I learned that she was an advocate for something I opposed?

I swear to God, conservative men are going out of there way to piss off every daughter, mother, sister and grandmother in America. Keep it up, folks! Nice work. You know women are allowed vote, right? amiright?

At least you hope this pisses them off. Praying for it.

Sorry, you don't pray.

 

[bripat9643]

When Fluke got on The View and told everyone to go to Media Matters for more information she proved beyond all doubt that she is nothing more than an activist and this whole thing was a plot by the democrats to divert attention from obama's disasters.

Is Rush Limbaugh an activist? Does Rush Limbaugh have an agenda?

He is pretending he's Joe Everyman.

 

[The T]

So what?

So the left-wing faux outrage isn't fooling anyone.

Only the weak-minded...meaning those on the left.

 

[The T]

So let me get this straight: You'd be OK with me calling your wife a slut and a prostitute, and demanding video of her schlepping someone, if I learned that she was an advocate for something I opposed?

Fluke isn't your wife, dipstick.

I swear to God, conservative men are going out of there way to piss off every daughter, mother, sister and grandmother in America. Keep it up, folks! Nice work. You know women are allowed vote, right? amiright?

So, if anyone criticizes a woman, ever, they are pissing off every daughter, mother, sister and grandmother in America? How about when Bill Maher called Michelle Malkin a c*nt?

The liberal double-standard is an appalling sight to behold.

Gotta be excused...as Obama gladly takes Maher's megabucks...as Obama talked openly about Limbaugh today but not directly.

Duplicity on parade.

 

[Ravi]

So what?

So the left-wing faux outrage isn't fooling anyone.

hell, it's not really fooling my parents. Both are strong libs. Maybe I'm finally curing them.

Yeah, curing them of procreating. Oh, too late.

And no, I'm insulting you.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Who cares? The consistency of their argument has absolutely zero to do with whether or not they have the right to object based upon it. Religious freedom means religious freedom, regardless of the logical merits of said religion.

I agree with your opinion that Catholics have what appear to be some glaring contradictions in their practices and philosophies. Where we differ is that I acknowledge that the protection of religious freedom is a protection of their right to practice in a manner that I might find stupid, contradictory, counter intuitive, or even downright offensive. Short of not allowing them to subjugate anyone who doesn't wish to participate in their practices, it's not the government's place to tell them how to behave or how to structure their faith. Also not my place. Not your place either.

Unless the practice they wish to engage in is discriminatory.

In which case it is unconstitutional, and therefore illegal.

In the case where the catholic church only focuses on women's contraception choices, and does not include other moral matters of an exactly similar nature, the Constitution definitely becomes an issue.

Unfortunately for that argument, you can't prove definitively that the practice is one of sexual discrimination.

Consider this, for instance. Viagra is taken in response to erectile dysfunction. Not all erectile dysfunction implies impotence. Some people are on blood pressure medication that makes it really hard to acquire/maintain a hard-on, but their tadpoles are still capable of hitting the water and Michael Phelps'ing their way to the egg. Some of these people are Catholics who believe that only sex for procreation is okay, and some of them are honestly attempting fertilization -every- time they pop their little blue pill and plug in.

On the other hand, consider a morning after pill. There is quite literally no use for this pill other than as a preventative measure to avoid pregnancy after sex, meaning that the sex was, for the person using the pill, purely casual and in no way an attempt to procreate.

One of these products can, potentially, be used in a manner that is in no way contradictory to popular Catholic practices. One of these cannot. I understand that this example doesn't cover every argument with every organization's objections, but it doesn't need to. Even if every single Catholic organization in question has a completely different interpretation of their doctrine and a completely different set of exact reasons for objecting, each one of these organizations has that right if it can't be proven, definitively, that their practice is one of sexual discrimination and not based upon one of the other many intricacies of this issue.

Also, the law against discrimination (Equal Rights Amendment) only actually specifies that the federal and state governments can't pass laws that are discriminatory. It doesn't say anywhere that religions have to practice in a manner that isn't discriminatory. That's why the Catholic church can legally operate in this country even though only men are allowed to be priests, cardinals, popes (i.e. positions of power within the organization).

 

[Vast LWC]

You're right, I did talk just about Sarah for a while in relation to Bill Maher. BUT I also mentioned Trig and Bristol since you whined about the attacks on the Clintons darling little daughter.

Still waiting for the excoriation of Bill Maher for what he said towards Sarah. That demand for him to apologize and be removed from the air is... where?

I'm not sure I understand.

I'm not whining about the Clintons. I'm saying they were fair game because they are public political figures who hold high public office.

The same holds true for Sarah Palin.

In my opinion, if you're going to reach for the power, you have to take the lumps, along with the rest of 'em.

Rush has talked endlessly about the Clintons in ways that are awful and outright disgusting at times, but there's no real public outcry, because all's fair in love an politics.

In this case however, Limbaugh was trying to silence a relative nobody, who was called before Congress, to argue a point, not to run for office.

Basically, he called her a prostitute for expressing her opinion, thus marginalizing her for no better reason than he didn't like her opinion.

 

[mudwhistle]

You're right, I did talk just about Sarah for a while in relation to Bill Maher. BUT I also mentioned Trig and Bristol since you whined about the attacks on the Clintons darling little daughter.

Still waiting for the excoriation of Bill Maher for what he said towards Sarah. That demand for him to apologize and be removed from the air is... where?

I'm not sure I understand.

I'm not whining about the Clintons. I'm saying they were fair game because they are public political figures who hold high public office.

The same holds true for Sarah Palin.

In my opinion, if you're going to reach for the power, you have to take the lumps, along with the rest of 'em.

Rush has talked endlessly about the Clintons in ways that are awful and outright disgusting at times, but there's no real public outcry, because all's fair in love an politics.

In this case however, Limbaugh was trying to silence a relative nobody, who was called before Congress, to argue a point, not to run for office.

Basically, he called her a prostitute for expressing her opinion, thus marginalizing her for no better reason than he didn't like her opinion.

She removed her nobody status when she perpetrated this farce in front of the nation.

Now, if Rush tries to ruin her life like Obama tried to ruin Joe The Plumbers' life by going through his personal records looking for dirt, then you'll have a case.

 

[The T]

You're right, I did talk just about Sarah for a while in relation to Bill Maher. BUT I also mentioned Trig and Bristol since you whined about the attacks on the Clintons darling little daughter.

Still waiting for the excoriation of Bill Maher for what he said towards Sarah. That demand for him to apologize and be removed from the air is... where?

I'm not sure I understand.

I'm not whining about the Clintons. I'm saying they were fair game because they are public political figures who hold high public office.

The same holds true for Sarah Palin.

In my opinion, if you're going to reach for the power, you have to take the lumps, along with the rest of 'em.

Rush has talked endlessly about the Clintons in ways that are awful and outright disgusting at times, but there's no real public outcry, because all's fair in love an politics.

In this case however, Limbaugh was trying to silence a relative nobody, who was called before Congress, to argue a point, not to run for office.

Basically, he called her a prostitute for expressing her opinion, thus marginalizing her for no better reason than he didn't like her opinion.

She removed her nobody status when she perpetrated this farce in front of the nation.

Now, if Rush tries to ruin her life like Obama tried to ruin Joe The Plumbers' life by going through his personal records looking for dirt, then you'll have a case.

Which Rush hasn't the power to do...as Democrats and the media crawled up Joe's ass with an electron Microscope in an effort to ruin his. Now Joe is running for Congress...and I support him in the effort.

 

[Big Fitz]

So the left-wing faux outrage isn't fooling anyone.

hell, it's not really fooling my parents. Both are strong libs. Maybe I'm finally curing them.

Yeah, curing them of procreating. Oh, too late.

And no, I'm insulting you.

Yep, cheap shots even for you. Well you get what you pay for, and that was worth nothing. let me give you a token of my lack of appreciation