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For all the Bigoted Bakers, Fanatical Florists and Pharisee Photographers

Finally a response, but of course followed by appeal to authority (in bold).

And none of the reasons you gave were the reason for PA laws in the first place. Again, they were tools to fight systemic government mandated discrimination, and the remnants of such after the laws enforcing them were voided.

Here is an editorial basically re-hashing my view on this.

Be Kind To Bigots Repeal the Anti-Discrimination Laws
And now gay people have to drive around finding a place to bake them a cake. What next, not allowed at hotels because the owner is a fundie?
They wouldn't have to drive very far. Lets try to keep it real ok?:thup:



That is stupid as all hell. The point is that your personal religious superstitions are not recognized by the law to be a good enough reason to deny other's their civil rights, nor is it reason enough for you to disregard anti-discrimination laws. Now cry.


there is no "civil right" that compels those people to perform any service for anyone, Which is why the case was thrown out of court.. Again try keep you emotional rambling out of it

Yes there is. It is written into Oregon State Antidiscrimination law. WTF are you talking about? Do you even know? Good geebus, the ignorance is astounding!

the case was thrown out of court. why are you so emotional? calm down? People should be forced out of business because they refuse to perform service. Oh my god!! the horror of it all!! You leftists are emotional nutjobs really
 
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I'm pretty sure you could advertise that you bake for traditional Christian weddings and you won't have a problem as long as you do only bake for traditional Christian weddings.

Not under the Oregon law.
Links?

ORS 659A.403 - Discrimination in place of public accommodation prohibited - 2013 Oregon Revised Statutes

If you only serve Christian weddings then you are denying service to non-Christians.
I think one could still get around it by only offering cakes decorated specifically for Christian ceremonies. Crosses, bible verses, etc.

So, you are suggesting a bakery only sell cakes with crosses on it? If we ignore the business reality that this would probably bankrupt them, how does that stop having to provide that cake to a same sex wedding? There are a lot of gay Christians.
Not a perfect solution but I don't shop in Christian book stores because they don't offer anything I'd want to read.
 
Civil Rights Division ENFORCING CIVIL RIGHTS LAWS

The Civil Rights Division of the Bureau of Labor and Industries (BOLI) enforces Oregon´s civil rights laws. These laws ban discrimination against individuals because of characteristics that make them part of a protected class. Anyone claiming to have been discriminated against at work, in a place where the public is served such as a restaurant or a hotel, when buying or renting housing or when applying for or attending a career school can file a complaint with the BOLI´s Civil Rights Division.

Ways of Filing a Discrimination Complaint
BOLI´s Civil Rights Complaint Process
Discrimination
Protected Classes
Federal Discrimination Laws
State Discrimination Laws
City Ordinances Against Discrimination
File a complaint with BOLI´s Civil Rights Division
  • File a complaint with the federal Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC)
  • File a civil suit in State Circuit Court
  • File a civil suit in Federal District Court

Protected Classes
Discrimination is unlawful when carried out because of an individual´s race, color, gender or other characteristic protected by law. Such characteristics place people into "protected classes." Everyone belongs to a number of protected classes. For example, we all have a race, a color and a gender.

There are federal, state, county, and city discrimination laws banning discrimination because of an individual´s protected classes.

Sigh...... just so everyone is aware. Chris has, once again, posted the employment discrimination section of Oregon - which has zero to do with this subject.
 
Civil Rights Division ENFORCING CIVIL RIGHTS LAWS

The Civil Rights Division of the Bureau of Labor and Industries (BOLI) enforces Oregon´s civil rights laws. These laws ban discrimination against individuals because of characteristics that make them part of a protected class. Anyone claiming to have been discriminated against at work, in a place where the public is served such as a restaurant or a hotel, when buying or renting housing or when applying for or attending a career school can file a complaint with the BOLI´s Civil Rights Division.

Ways of Filing a Discrimination Complaint
BOLI´s Civil Rights Complaint Process
Discrimination
Protected Classes
Federal Discrimination Laws
State Discrimination Laws
City Ordinances Against Discrimination
File a complaint with BOLI´s Civil Rights Division
  • File a complaint with the federal Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC)
  • File a civil suit in State Circuit Court
  • File a civil suit in Federal District Court
Protected Classes
Discrimination is unlawful when carried out because of an individual´s race, color, gender or other characteristic protected by law. Such characteristics place people into "protected classes." Everyone belongs to a number of protected classes. For example, we all have a race, a color and a gender.

There are federal, state, county, and city discrimination laws banning discrimination because of an individual´s protected classes.

Sigh...... just so everyone is aware. Chris has, once again, posted the employment discrimination section of Oregon - which has zero to do with this subject.

Obviously not. You keep ignoring this . . . in a place where the public is served such as a restaurant or a hotel. Sorry, but the state did not misinterpret it's own laws. Lol.

Also, dumb-dumb, you must have missed this part too. This is also in the link. :)

Discrimination in Real Property Transactions
State discrimination law also prohibits a person from refusing to sell, lease, or rent any real property because of an individual´s race, color, sex (including pregnancy), sexual orientation, national origin, religion, marital status, familial status, physical or mental disability, or source of income.

Discrimination in Public Accommodation
A place of public accommodation is defined in state law as any place that offers the public accommodations, advantages, facilities or privileges, whether in the nature of goods, services, lodging, amusements or otherwise. It is illegal to discriminate in places of public accommodation on the basis of race, sex (including pregnancy), sexual orientation, national origin, religion, marital status, physical or mental disability, or age (18 years of age and older).

Discrimination in Career Schools
No career school (private vocational, professional, or trade) licensed to operate in Oregon may discriminate in its admission or instruction practices because of an individual´s race, color, sex (including pregnancy), sexual orientation, marital status, religion, national origin, age, or physical or mental disabilities.
 
Not under the Oregon law.
Links?

ORS 659A.403 - Discrimination in place of public accommodation prohibited - 2013 Oregon Revised Statutes

If you only serve Christian weddings then you are denying service to non-Christians.
I think one could still get around it by only offering cakes decorated specifically for Christian ceremonies. Crosses, bible verses, etc.

So, you are suggesting a bakery only sell cakes with crosses on it? If we ignore the business reality that this would probably bankrupt them, how does that stop having to provide that cake to a same sex wedding? There are a lot of gay Christians.
Not a perfect solution but I don't shop in Christian book stores because they don't offer anything I'd want to read.

And since that is all they sell, they are not discriminating. However, if someone were to come wearing a yamaka, they could not refuse to sell one of their books to the person because they were not a Christian. That would be discrimination. Which brings us back to your suggestion, how does only selling Christian themed wedding cakes allow them to refuse to sell it to two Christian women for their wedding?
 
Civil Rights Division ENFORCING CIVIL RIGHTS LAWS

The Civil Rights Division of the Bureau of Labor and Industries (BOLI) enforces Oregon´s civil rights laws. These laws ban discrimination against individuals because of characteristics that make them part of a protected class. Anyone claiming to have been discriminated against at work, in a place where the public is served such as a restaurant or a hotel, when buying or renting housing or when applying for or attending a career school can file a complaint with the BOLI´s Civil Rights Division.

Ways of Filing a Discrimination Complaint
BOLI´s Civil Rights Complaint Process
Discrimination
Protected Classes
Federal Discrimination Laws
State Discrimination Laws
City Ordinances Against Discrimination
File a complaint with BOLI´s Civil Rights Division
  • File a complaint with the federal Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC)
  • File a civil suit in State Circuit Court
  • File a civil suit in Federal District Court
Protected Classes
Discrimination is unlawful when carried out because of an individual´s race, color, gender or other characteristic protected by law. Such characteristics place people into "protected classes." Everyone belongs to a number of protected classes. For example, we all have a race, a color and a gender.

There are federal, state, county, and city discrimination laws banning discrimination because of an individual´s protected classes.

Sigh...... just so everyone is aware. Chris has, once again, posted the employment discrimination section of Oregon - which has zero to do with this subject.


You may want to read the first paragraph a little closer. Its not limited to employment.
 
Civil Rights Division ENFORCING CIVIL RIGHTS LAWS

The Civil Rights Division of the Bureau of Labor and Industries (BOLI) enforces Oregon´s civil rights laws. These laws ban discrimination against individuals because of characteristics that make them part of a protected class. Anyone claiming to have been discriminated against at work, in a place where the public is served such as a restaurant or a hotel, when buying or renting housing or when applying for or attending a career school can file a complaint with the BOLI´s Civil Rights Division.

Ways of Filing a Discrimination Complaint
BOLI´s Civil Rights Complaint Process
Discrimination
Protected Classes
Federal Discrimination Laws
State Discrimination Laws
City Ordinances Against Discrimination
File a complaint with BOLI´s Civil Rights Division
  • File a complaint with the federal Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC)
  • File a civil suit in State Circuit Court
  • File a civil suit in Federal District Court
Protected Classes
Discrimination is unlawful when carried out because of an individual´s race, color, gender or other characteristic protected by law. Such characteristics place people into "protected classes." Everyone belongs to a number of protected classes. For example, we all have a race, a color and a gender.

There are federal, state, county, and city discrimination laws banning discrimination because of an individual´s protected classes.

Sigh...... just so everyone is aware. Chris has, once again, posted the employment discrimination section of Oregon - which has zero to do with this subject.

Obviously not. You keep ignoring this . . . in a place where the public is served such as a restaurant or a hotel. Sorry, but the state did not misinterpret it's own laws. Lol.

Good grief, are you serious? Of course they did not misinterpret their own laws. It is just that, unlike you, they used the right law. And you accuse others of ignorance. Amazing.

My mistake for reading your stuff. I should know better by now.
 
I think one could still get around it by only offering cakes decorated specifically for Christian ceremonies. Crosses, bible verses, etc.

So, you are suggesting a bakery only sell cakes with crosses on it? If we ignore the business reality that this would probably bankrupt them, how does that stop having to provide that cake to a same sex wedding? There are a lot of gay Christians.
Not a perfect solution but I don't shop in Christian book stores because they don't offer anything I'd want to read.

And since that is all they sell, they are not discriminating. However, if someone were to come wearing a yamaka, they could not refuse to sell one of their books to the person because they were not a Christian. That would be discrimination. Which brings us back to your suggestion, how does only selling Christian themed wedding cakes allow them to refuse to sell it to two Christian women for their wedding?

The law has nothing to do with the product, idiot. Again, it is ACCESS to the product that the state is concerned with. If you open a business that serves the public, then you MUST serve the public. You cannot discriminate and refuse to sell to certain "groups" of people because it is against the law.
 
Civil Rights Division ENFORCING CIVIL RIGHTS LAWS

The Civil Rights Division of the Bureau of Labor and Industries (BOLI) enforces Oregon´s civil rights laws. These laws ban discrimination against individuals because of characteristics that make them part of a protected class. Anyone claiming to have been discriminated against at work, in a place where the public is served such as a restaurant or a hotel, when buying or renting housing or when applying for or attending a career school can file a complaint with the BOLI´s Civil Rights Division.

Ways of Filing a Discrimination Complaint
BOLI´s Civil Rights Complaint Process
Discrimination
Protected Classes
Federal Discrimination Laws
State Discrimination Laws
City Ordinances Against Discrimination
File a complaint with BOLI´s Civil Rights Division
  • File a complaint with the federal Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC)
  • File a civil suit in State Circuit Court
  • File a civil suit in Federal District Court
Protected Classes
Discrimination is unlawful when carried out because of an individual´s race, color, gender or other characteristic protected by law. Such characteristics place people into "protected classes." Everyone belongs to a number of protected classes. For example, we all have a race, a color and a gender.

There are federal, state, county, and city discrimination laws banning discrimination because of an individual´s protected classes.

Sigh...... just so everyone is aware. Chris has, once again, posted the employment discrimination section of Oregon - which has zero to do with this subject.

Obviously not. You keep ignoring this . . . in a place where the public is served such as a restaurant or a hotel. Sorry, but the state did not misinterpret it's own laws. Lol.

Good grief, are you serious? Of course they did not misinterpret their own laws. It is just that, unlike you, they used the right law. And you accuse others of ignorance. Amazing.

My mistake for reading your stuff. I should know better by now.

Good geebus, you just keep showing everyone how stupid you are and your poor understanding and reading comprehension. The law is clear. You cannot open a business and discriminate against groups of people. Now, WTF are you arguing about?
 
Civil Rights Division ENFORCING CIVIL RIGHTS LAWS

The Civil Rights Division of the Bureau of Labor and Industries (BOLI) enforces Oregon´s civil rights laws. These laws ban discrimination against individuals because of characteristics that make them part of a protected class. Anyone claiming to have been discriminated against at work, in a place where the public is served such as a restaurant or a hotel, when buying or renting housing or when applying for or attending a career school can file a complaint with the BOLI´s Civil Rights Division.

Ways of Filing a Discrimination Complaint
BOLI´s Civil Rights Complaint Process
Discrimination
Protected Classes
Federal Discrimination Laws
State Discrimination Laws
City Ordinances Against Discrimination
File a complaint with BOLI´s Civil Rights Division
  • File a complaint with the federal Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC)
  • File a civil suit in State Circuit Court
  • File a civil suit in Federal District Court
Protected Classes
Discrimination is unlawful when carried out because of an individual´s race, color, gender or other characteristic protected by law. Such characteristics place people into "protected classes." Everyone belongs to a number of protected classes. For example, we all have a race, a color and a gender.

There are federal, state, county, and city discrimination laws banning discrimination because of an individual´s protected classes.

Sigh...... just so everyone is aware. Chris has, once again, posted the employment discrimination section of Oregon - which has zero to do with this subject.


You may want to read the first paragraph a little closer. Its not limited to employment.

This guy must be an utter moron, seriously. He is just as bad as that other old man posting here. Both are incredibly ignorant.
 
Civil Rights Division ENFORCING CIVIL RIGHTS LAWS

The Civil Rights Division of the Bureau of Labor and Industries (BOLI) enforces Oregon´s civil rights laws. These laws ban discrimination against individuals because of characteristics that make them part of a protected class. Anyone claiming to have been discriminated against at work, in a place where the public is served such as a restaurant or a hotel, when buying or renting housing or when applying for or attending a career school can file a complaint with the BOLI´s Civil Rights Division.

Ways of Filing a Discrimination Complaint
BOLI´s Civil Rights Complaint Process
Discrimination
Protected Classes
Federal Discrimination Laws
State Discrimination Laws
City Ordinances Against Discrimination
File a complaint with BOLI´s Civil Rights Division
  • File a complaint with the federal Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC)
  • File a civil suit in State Circuit Court
  • File a civil suit in Federal District Court
Protected Classes
Discrimination is unlawful when carried out because of an individual´s race, color, gender or other characteristic protected by law. Such characteristics place people into "protected classes." Everyone belongs to a number of protected classes. For example, we all have a race, a color and a gender.

There are federal, state, county, and city discrimination laws banning discrimination because of an individual´s protected classes.

Sigh...... just so everyone is aware. Chris has, once again, posted the employment discrimination section of Oregon - which has zero to do with this subject.

Obviously not. You keep ignoring this . . . in a place where the public is served such as a restaurant or a hotel. Sorry, but the state did not misinterpret it's own laws. Lol.

Good grief, are you serious? Of course they did not misinterpret their own laws. It is just that, unlike you, they used the right law. And you accuse others of ignorance. Amazing.

My mistake for reading your stuff. I should know better by now.

Did you SEE where it says this?

Discrimination in Public Accommodation
A place of public accommodation is defined in state law as any place that offers the public accommodations, advantages, facilities or privileges, whether in the nature of goods, services, lodging, amusements or otherwise. It is illegal to discriminate in places of public accommodation on the basis of race, sex (including pregnancy), sexual orientation, national origin, religion, marital status, physical or mental disability, or age (18 years of age and older).
 
Man oh man, you bigots are stupid. :lol: No wonder why you think the way you do!!! :p
 
It has been determined in the State of Oregon, that your religious views and superstitions are not a good enough reason to discriminate against entire groups of people. If you do this, you will be sued by the state for not following the law. If you think you cannot follow the law, then you don't have to open a "public accommodation" business. Simple.

This is because, the "public" includes gays, blacks, and other people you might not like.
And yet Creationism and those who would present it are excluded from Public education. While presenting that homosexuality as an alternative cannot be. I dare say that there are whites, blacks, brown, yellow and red people who can and do believe there are very ethical, logical, and rational reasons that Creationism is a viable alternative to evolution and uniformitarianism. In fact there are very likely more than 40% of the population understands a God Created alternative.
And yet creationist Christians,. Jews, Moslems, and Hindi among others are not accommodated and in fact are DISCRIMINATED against.

Creationist threads are continuously moved to the "religious" section by the request of Atheists and yet secular educated "guesses" are allowed to remain un disturbed.

Of course, you likely believe that religion is purely a choice.... There are black, white, brown, yellow, and red people who have engaged in homosexual sex. It is not the person who is being ostracized but the celebration and commemoration of their choices which are. Sorry, however, there are plenty of businesses which will cater to the "sexual choice" crowd. Public education is a taxpayer monopoly that is being controlled and manipulated by a governmental bureaucracy which is becoming more and more the bully pulpit of hedonistic secularists.

So, the point is, that nothing is SIMPLE. And if YOU want to remain a homosexual, I as a businessman should not be made responsible for providing you with Homosexually oriented cards, toys, hotel marriage suite accommodations, publications, articles, photographs, decorated cakes/candies, and classroom instruction. That is for someone else to choose to do --- this is suppose to be a free country and not a DICTATORSHIP.
 
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It has been determined in the State of Oregon, that your religious views and superstitions are not a good enough reason to discriminate against entire groups of people. If you do this, you will be sued by the state for not following the law. If you think you cannot follow the law, then you don't have to open a "public accommodation" business. Simple.

This is because, the "public" includes gays, blacks, and other people you might not like.
And yet Creationism and those who would present it are excluded from Public education. While presenting that homosexuality as an alternative cannot be. I dare say that there are whites, blacks, brown, yellow and red people who can and do believe there are very ethical, logical, and rational reasons that Creationism is a viable alternative to evolution and uniformitarianism. In fact there are very likely more than 40% of the population understands a God Created alternative.
And yet creationist Christians,. Jews, Moslems, and Hindi among others are not accommodated and in fact are DISCRIMINATED against.

Creationist threads are continuously moved to the "religious" section by the request of Atheists and yet secular educated "guesses" are allowed to remain un disturbed.

Of course, you likely believe that religion is purely a choice.... There are black, white, brown, yellow, and red people who have engaged in homosexual sex. It is not the person who is being ostracized but the celebration and commemoration of their choices which are. Sorry, however, there are plenty of businesses which will cater to the "sexual choice" crowd. Public education is a taxpayer monopoly that is being controlled and manipulated by a governmental bureaucracy which is becoming more and more the bully pulpit of hedonistic secularists.

So, the point is, that nothing is SIMPLE. And if YOU want to remain a homosexual, I as a businessman should not be made responsible for providing you with Homosexually oriented cards, toys, hotel marriage suite accommodations, publications, articles, photographs, decorated cakes/candies, and classroom instruction. That is for someone else to choose to do --- this is suppose to be a free country and not a DICTATORSHIP.

What in the world??? This delusional rant doesn't even make sense! The point is, no, you do not have the right to discriminate against other groups of people. If you don't like that, it is too bad because that is the law. And again, this law cited has absolutely NOTHING to do with the product you offer. It has to do with denying to accommodate the public. The "public" includes gay people.
 
I can certainly say as a printer that I do not offer porn as a product. That is not discrimination based on race, gender, religion or sexual preference. It's my company policy. You cannot demand that I sell a product I don't offer. A bakery that sells wedding cakes, sells wedding cakes. They have every right to tell me that they won't make a penis shaped cake if they don't offer that. They cannot however refuse to sell me cake #23 from their catalog on the grounds that it's for a gay wedding. That is discrimination. It is in no way the same.

So you couldn't refuse, as a gay printer, printing a billboard that quotes a bible passage condemning homosexuality, as long as you already print billboards with other messages?
It depends on whether or not they offer their signs for that purpose.
I think they have a much better argument in court than the baker does.

Why would purpose come into play? Aren't you the one saying "a cake is a cake is a cake?

The point has been explained multiple times.
A cake is a cake. A cake can't be gay, political or religious. It is a cake.
Advertising is speech. It is a message. As the owner of the billboard, I decide what gets displayed. If I don't offer my billboards for political or religious statements then I don't offer that service. That is not discrimination based on race, gender, religion or sexual preference. If A church wants to advertise their church, fine I offer that. But I will not post religious political statements. Is that hard to understand?

Not hard to understand at all. But that does not change the fact that it would be prohibited discrimination under the Oregon law. Religion is a protected class.

No. As the billboard owner, I'm not discriminating on you because of religion.
I said very clearly that you are free to choose a product I offer such as advertising your church. Being denied service for a product I don't offer is not discrimination.
 
Man oh man, you bigots are stupid. :lol: No wonder why you think the way you do!!! :p
Perhaps you might just consider that you are the one who is bias and this is why you perceive things as you do!

No, you and people like you are ignorant of the law. That is your problem. That state has already determined, long ago, that they will not allow you to discriminate against groups of people. This is not a NEW law.

Now, you people and people like you tried to argue in this exact same manner when you were told that you had to serve blacks, and it didn't work then. What makes you think it will work now? The states tend to ignore your religious superstitions in favor of treating ALL Americans equally.
 
So MLK wasn't a victim of an unjust law?

I wonder if you think that the bigots haven't already thought of and tried your approach? Lol. Sorry, but your religious freedom ends when you violate another person's civil rights or when you discriminate against a group of people. That is just the way it is here in our secular society, and that is the way it should be. Your religious beliefs don't give you a right to skirt the law. It is NOT your religious right to treat other people like shit.

Civil rights involve interacting with government, not with some baker.

And it is not government's right to treat others like shit for THEIR religious beliefs.

No they do not. Civil rights apply to business practice as well. Again, you show how ignorant you are. Pathetic. I don't even know why I'm wasting my time on someone as ignorant as you.

So a wedding cake is a civil right?

Shopping at the store of your choice is. Again, you confuse the product with the right to access. You are dumb. Dumb de dumb-dumb. Dumb, de-dumb dumb, DUMB! :D

I don't see that right anywhere in the constitution, but I do see the right to free exercise of religion, and there is no caveat for "unless you want to sell something".
 
You think you have the right to control how people work and make a living, and that overrides any right they have to decide how they want to do it.

Everyone works, pays taxes, etc. That doesn't mean government can ignore its own limits on what it can do to people, not matter how much you want to make people conform to your moral code

No I don't, but the state does have a right to say how you conduct business and when you are violating another person's rights. My moral code? Live and let live.

Only if there is actual harm, and it has to take into account the rights of the people running the business.

And you are not going anywhere near live and let live. You are telling people to either submit to your moral code, or have government ruin them. You are not asking, or debating, or trying to convince, you cheer on as the government uses its power like a gun down their throat, and a finger on the trigger.

Look, the more you speak, the more you show your ignorance of the law.

Considering I think the laws are wrong, I am not ignoring them.

The laws are not wrong. You are wrong. These laws have already been challenged by bigots like you. It has been determined that a person's civil rights outweigh your religious superstitions. Understand?

You are wrong, and a bigot against people's religious beliefs. Your calling them "superstitions" proves that. Evidently you find it OK to insult people of faith.
 
I wonder if you think that the bigots haven't already thought of and tried your approach? Lol. Sorry, but your religious freedom ends when you violate another person's civil rights or when you discriminate against a group of people. That is just the way it is here in our secular society, and that is the way it should be. Your religious beliefs don't give you a right to skirt the law. It is NOT your religious right to treat other people like shit.

Civil rights involve interacting with government, not with some baker.

And it is not government's right to treat others like shit for THEIR religious beliefs.

No they do not. Civil rights apply to business practice as well. Again, you show how ignorant you are. Pathetic. I don't even know why I'm wasting my time on someone as ignorant as you.

So a wedding cake is a civil right?

Shopping at the store of your choice is. Again, you confuse the product with the right to access. You are dumb. Dumb de dumb-dumb. Dumb, de-dumb dumb, DUMB! :D

I don't see that right anywhere in the constitution, but I do see the right to free exercise of religion, and there is no caveat for "unless you want to sell something".

The state has decided this. Are you claiming that states are NOT allowed to make their own regulations regarding business practice, commerce, etc?

Look, so far, all of your "suggestions" have been utterly ridiculous. No state is going to honor your requests. It is hilarious that you think any of the things you have cited would outweigh another person's civil rights. Lol. This is why I think you are delusional. Or one reason anyway.
 

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