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That is evidence that there was creation. How it was done, who or what was responsible, what moral laws we are expected to follow, etc all the stuff religions try to explain, that’s a different story.Evidence would absolutely suffice
How about the universe? Or how about your existence? Is that sufficient evidence of a creator?
This is a discussion forum. If you think I got something wrong or if you have a different point of view then please present it. I wanted to be a priest when I was young. Grew up in the church, have gone to church plenty of times in recent years as my girl is a devote follower. Don’t assume you know me. I’ve had faith, I’ve lost faith, and now I’m sharing a perspective I have from my experience.Of course you are knocking people with faith, but that is not the worst. As someone without faith you are telling people with faith what they "really" want to avoid. I find it odd that people with no faith are such self-proclaimed experts on those with faith. I think it best for those with no faith to talk about having no faith and leave it to those with faith to talk about having faith.Sorry man, not to knock those with faith but they have faith because the need and want to believe in something. They don’t seek evidence as skeptics because the lack of evidence would only weaken their faith and that’s not what they want to do
Yet according to the Old Testament god communicated with people directly and through angels and even a being in human form who performed miracles. There were interactions in the physical realm. Should that kind of evidence present itself then that evidence would suffice for most non believers IMOEvidence has boundaries. It is confined to physical existence because by definition evidence is something that can be measured by five physical senses. Spirit has shed physical boundaries. It is like demanding that someone insist being told the weight of a huge rock in miles per second. A rightful response to such a demand is, "Don't be silly."Evidence would absolutely suffice for those whiteout faith. It just needs to be real evidence they can trust.
Likewise physical measurement/evidence of what is spirit deserves only the response of, "Don't be silly." If one absolutely cannot live or think in terms beyond evidence (that which is physical) then the exploration of things that are spirit or spiritual is not their field of exploration. They are confined to what is physical.
This is a discussion forum. If you think I got something wrong or if you have a different point of view then please present it. I wanted to be a priest when I was young. Grew up in the church, have gone to church plenty of times in recent years as my girl is a devote follower. Don’t assume you know me. I’ve had faith, I’ve lost faith, and now I’m sharing a perspective I have from my experience.
That was my point. Tell people what you think based on your own experiences...not what they think.
The Apostles had evidence. For one-twelfth of the Apostles evidence made no difference. Those in the Old Testament who reported seeing an angel (or even a burning bush) only had their word, no evidence. (Sure, Moses, you saw a burning bush that showed no signs of burning. And your proof is a bush that has no signs of burning.)Yet according to the Old Testament god communicated with people directly and through angels and even a being in human form who performed miracles. There were interactions in the physical realm. Should that kind of evidence present itself then that evidence would suffice for most non believers IMO
There always a percentage of outliers with anything you measure. Some people don’t believe their own lying eyes. Most people believe what they can see. Moses might not of had evidence to show others but he had first hand interaction that he saw to convince him. I believe that’s how most people operate. The things they see for themselves they have stronger convictions in. Things they read or hear about they have less conviction. It’s human natureThe Apostles had evidence. For one-twelfth of the Apostles evidence made no difference. Those in the Old Testament who reported seeing an angel (or even a burning bush) only had their word, no evidence. (Sure, Moses, you saw a burning bush that showed no signs of burning. And your proof is a bush that has no signs of burning.)Yet according to the Old Testament god communicated with people directly and through angels and even a being in human form who performed miracles. There were interactions in the physical realm. Should that kind of evidence present itself then that evidence would suffice for most non believers IMO
Once we choose to explore beyond the physical, we must let go of the physical, which means we are in a realm with no evidence. Other than our word, and as we all know, that can prove tricky as well.
What I find interesting contemplation, is that even with evidence a bit over eight percent of the population would still not believe. What do you think...was Judas' problem not enough evidence?
Then perhaps I am an outlier.Things they read or hear about they have less conviction. It’s human nature
The belief that God spoke to Moses and all your other examples are from stories that you’ve been told or that you’ve read. That’s not first hand so a large number of people are going to be skeptical of the source in its entiretyThen perhaps I am an outlier.Things they read or hear about they have less conviction. It’s human nature
Moses and the burning bush, Jesus feeding five thousand, Jonah and Nineveh, Abraham and the angel...none of these have any bearing on my life. The one all have in common that does have a bearing on my life is God's presence and that He does interact/speak with individuals. I was just a tot with my Little Golden Books when I told my parents that like Noah and Abraham, I wanted God to speak to me. My parents told me that didn't happen any more, just back in Biblical times. Too bad, because God was going to have to return and speak to me. And, I told Him so.
Doesn't matter how many are skeptical. To my current day life the only pertinent part is that God does communicate with humans. I pursued that rather than trying to track down a burning bush that did not burn. Or even giving further thought to the bush. Or Moses' life.The belief that God spoke to Moses and all your other examples are from stories that you’ve been told or that you’ve read. That’s not first hand so a large number of people are going to be skeptical of the source in its entirety
How do you know God communicated with humans?Doesn't matter how many are skeptical. To my current day life the only pertinent part is that God does communicate with humans. I pursued that rather than trying to track down a burning bush that did not burn. Or even giving further thought to the bush. Or Moses' life.The belief that God spoke to Moses and all your other examples are from stories that you’ve been told or that you’ve read. That’s not first hand so a large number of people are going to be skeptical of the source in its entirety
My Little Golden Book said so. If it were true, then He could do the same with me. True. Eventually moved on to studying the Bible.How do you know God communicated with humans?
Do you believe what you read in the Bible as fact or do you read it on a metaphorical level?My Little Golden Book said so. If it were true, then He could do the same with me. True. Eventually moved on to studying the Bible.How do you know God communicated with humans?
Rabbis recommend studying the Bible over reading the Bible. I tend to look for the theme--what is the purpose of the story, the lesson our ancestors wished to pass on to the next generations. I find it also vital to keep in mind that Hebrew is an objective language, not subjective. It also only has about six thousand words. Since most languages are subjective, we have an imperfect translation. It helps to have commentary from someone who was brought up speaking Hebrew.Do you believe what you read in the Bible as fact or do you read it on a metaphorical level?
.Then perhaps I am an outlier.Things they read or hear about they have less conviction. It’s human nature
Moses and the burning bush, Jesus feeding five thousand, Jonah and Nineveh, Abraham and the angel...none of these have any bearing on my life. The one all have in common that does have a bearing on my life is God's presence and that He does interact/speak with individuals. I was just a tot with my Little Golden Books when I told my parents that like Noah and Abraham, I wanted God to speak to me. My parents told me that didn't happen any more, just back in Biblical times. Too bad, because God was going to have to return and speak to me. And, I told Him so.
.The one all have in common that does have a bearing on my life is God's presence and that He does interact/speak with individuals.
You mean the angel of the Lord.Moses and the burning bush
Do you believe what you read in the Bible as fact or do you read it on a metaphorical level?My Little Golden Book said so. If it were true, then He could do the same with me. True. Eventually moved on to studying the Bible.How do you know God communicated with humans?
Evidence would absolutely suffice for those whiteout faith. It just needs to be real evidence they can trust.
