For those with faith no evidence is necessary; for those without it, no evidence will suffice.

[Slade3200]

What’s your point?

No evidence in the world and no burden of proof is sufficient to convince unbelievers, and yet believers know these things without being told or shown them.

How in the world can you say that with a straight face?. People who don’t believe feel that way because they haven’t seen proof for themselves. If god came down and revealed himself to a nonbeliever then they would believe. Duh. they aren’t just going to take other peoples word that the stories told by man through centuries are 100% accurate. It’s actually rather silly to think that they are accurate

According to the Bible, the Hebrew people saw God send plagues to free them from Egypt, and then watched the Red Sea part so they could cross. Then they saw him give them manna from heaven, and then lost faith in him as they turned around and built a golden calf to worship instead.

Sounds about right.

Moses was not allowed into the promised land and was left alone. He began weeping to God....and when he died, it was the Angels that God sent that buried him..... a little known fact of biblical importance.

Sounds magical!

 

[Dadoalex]

Since "no evidence is necessary" would actual evidence then be heretical?

Believers can find the evidence easily enough without having it served on them.

But, if no evidence is necessary then how would they know it is evidence
AND
If they see it as evidence then they MUST be looking for evidence
AND
Since they are looking for evidence
THEN
Both they and the resultant evidence are heretical.

 

[Votto]

What’s your point?

No evidence in the world and no burden of proof is sufficient to convince unbelievers, and yet believers know these things without being told or shown them.

How in the world can you say that with a straight face?. People who don’t believe feel that way because they haven’t seen proof for themselves. If god came down and revealed himself to a nonbeliever then they would believe. Duh. they aren’t just going to take other peoples word that the stories told by man through centuries are 100% accurate. It’s actually rather silly to think that they are accurate

According to the Bible, the Hebrew people saw God send plagues to free them from Egypt, and then watched the Red Sea part so they could cross. Then they saw him give them manna from heaven, and then lost faith in him as they turned around and built a golden calf to worship instead.

Sounds about right.

When I hear “according to the the Bible” I can’t take it as historical fact as I see that book as metaphorical and a tool for life and moral lessons

I did not tell you this story expecting you would believe it, I was telling you this story to show you what the Bible means when it talks of faith.

James 2:19


19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless ?

Again, just believing there is a God does not mean you are placing your faith in him.

 

[LittleNipper]

our societies and rules/laws are based on a Christian belief

Incorrect. If that were true, legal abortion would not exist, barring the life of the mother being at great risk.

Fair point actually.

Well it once was true. But society is getting dismantled bit by bit each passing month. It's tragic to see.

I mean fundamentally it was our western basis, but now you've made me think, It's on it's way to being removed from all that. Sadly.

The world is a dark place and getting darker. We're getting closer to the time when Jesus returns and ends Satan's reign on this planet. We will all stand in front of Jesus. Will you be able to say that you serve him or did you serve someone or something else?

I ask myself that question all the time because I have a LOT of work to do become a true follower of Christ.

You sound like you're a lot more emotionally invested in God than me, mate.

Regards myself (as you asked)? - I've no idea tbh. I've not spent my life worshipping God but does that really matter? there's scripture out there that clearly states that belief in him can suffice provided you're not an eternal/consistent sinner.

I'd like to be a better person, sure.

But I'm not an evil person either.

Happy with my odds tbh.

A wealthy young ruler once called Jesus "good". Jesus' retort was that only GOD is good. That doesn't mean that Jesus was denying that HE was God, but merely trying to get the rich young ruler to THINK! Now, if only GOD is good, what does that make us? Obviously, we make mistakes. We sin. We do what we shouldn't ---- sometimes by accident and sometimes premeditated. The Bible reveals that Jesus claimed that ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of GOD. And that if one breaks even ONE LAW of GOD then one has broken them ALL, regardless! Because we are sinful we are unworthy of eternal life. But through placing our trust in CHRIST, that HE died on our behalf, and realize our propensity to sin --- having a repentant attitude --- we will be redeemed/saved. However, those that imagine that they can be GOOD enough will miss the mark and be entitled to the prize of eternal separation from GOD. I want to see you in heaven someday. Please read the books of JOHN and ROMANS. These are a very good place to begin your journey.

I actually find it hard to stick up for religious people when they start saying stuff like that about us all being sinners even if we're good people and not done too much wrong etc.

It sounds brainwashed.

Have you never told a lie? Have you never taken something that didn't belong to you? Have you never not listened to your parents? Have you never wished somebody dead? Have you never wanted something that belonged to someone else? Have you never used GOD's name in vain? Am I brainwashed or merely presenting an obvious biblical observation? What makes one think he/she is "good" under such circumstances?

Seek help mate

I think you need as much help as I, "mate". You are NOT any better!

 

[LittleNipper]

Christmas gave us the miracle and Easter showed us the proof

Since "no evidence is necessary" would actual evidence then be heretical?

Believers can find the evidence easily enough without having it served on them.

Well that is true of all religions. Every religion ever can saved can find circumstantial evidence that seems to back its beliefs.

no religion however has ever produced concrete scientifically verifiable evidence that is beliefs are true

Partial truth never saved anyone.

 

[Scottish_Brexiteer_UK]

our societies and rules/laws are based on a Christian belief

Incorrect. If that were true, legal abortion would not exist, barring the life of the mother being at great risk.

Fair point actually.

Well it once was true. But society is getting dismantled bit by bit each passing month. It's tragic to see.

I mean fundamentally it was our western basis, but now you've made me think, It's on it's way to being removed from all that. Sadly.

The world is a dark place and getting darker. We're getting closer to the time when Jesus returns and ends Satan's reign on this planet. We will all stand in front of Jesus. Will you be able to say that you serve him or did you serve someone or something else?

I ask myself that question all the time because I have a LOT of work to do become a true follower of Christ.

You sound like you're a lot more emotionally invested in God than me, mate.

Regards myself (as you asked)? - I've no idea tbh. I've not spent my life worshipping God but does that really matter? there's scripture out there that clearly states that belief in him can suffice provided you're not an eternal/consistent sinner.

I'd like to be a better person, sure.

But I'm not an evil person either.

Happy with my odds tbh.

A wealthy young ruler once called Jesus "good". Jesus' retort was that only GOD is good. That doesn't mean that Jesus was denying that HE was God, but merely trying to get the rich young ruler to THINK! Now, if only GOD is good, what does that make us? Obviously, we make mistakes. We sin. We do what we shouldn't ---- sometimes by accident and sometimes premeditated. The Bible reveals that Jesus claimed that ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of GOD. And that if one breaks even ONE LAW of GOD then one has broken them ALL, regardless! Because we are sinful we are unworthy of eternal life. But through placing our trust in CHRIST, that HE died on our behalf, and realize our propensity to sin --- having a repentant attitude --- we will be redeemed/saved. However, those that imagine that they can be GOOD enough will miss the mark and be entitled to the prize of eternal separation from GOD. I want to see you in heaven someday. Please read the books of JOHN and ROMANS. These are a very good place to begin your journey.

I actually find it hard to stick up for religious people when they start saying stuff like that about us all being sinners even if we're good people and not done too much wrong etc.

It sounds brainwashed.

Have you never told a lie? Have you never taken something that didn't belong to you? Have you never not listened to your parents? Have you never wished somebody dead? Have you never wanted something that belonged to someone else? Have you never used GOD's name in vain? Am I brainwashed or merely presenting an obvious biblical observation? What makes one think he/she is "good" under such circumstances?

Seek help mate

I think you need as much help as I, "mate". You are NOT any better!

You don't know me

 

[justinacolmena]

Then they saw him give them manna from heaven, and then lost faith in him as they turned around and built a golden calf to worship instead

They crossed the Red Sea with too much jewelry and gold earrings etc etc, which the Egyptians — understandably — wanted back from them.

As to worshipping the golden calf, they were herding cattle, while they deemed pork unclean in a blind adherence to dietary ordinances.

Hindu people on the other hand will not eat beef because cows are sacred, and the highest caste of them will not eat any meat at all.

Pork, beef, and chicken being historically the three most economical kinds of meat to raise for human consumption.

 

[Leviticus]

Christmas gave us the miracle and Easter showed us the proof

Since "no evidence is necessary" would actual evidence then be heretical?

Believers can find the evidence easily enough without having it served on them.

Well that is true of all religions. Every religion ever can saved can find circumstantial evidence that seems to back its beliefs.

no religion however has ever produced concrete scientifically verifiable evidence that is beliefs are true

Partial truth never saved anyone.

No but it's pretty easy for a fiesta to find truth and pretty much anything that even remotely seems to prove their religious beliefs. That's one of the flaws of humans when you're looking for something desperate to believe it you will find evidence to prove it in anything

 

[justinacolmena]

That's one of the flaws of humans when you're looking for something desperate to believe it you will find evidence to prove it in anything

This is true. People read, for instance, Leviticus 12 or certain other passages of the Old Testament, and they are desperate to find some evidence of God or basis of salvation under the ancient ordinance of circumcision — except there is no salvation under that law, nor can there be, ever, not under any circumstances whatsoever — because their faith is vain and their desire for God is accounted no better than lewdness for the bloodlust to murder the innocent ones and maim them in their tenderest of parts.

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 12 - King James Version

And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean. And in the eighth day the flesh of his...

www.biblegateway.com

It's in the same category as dentists who pull teeth that don't need to be pulled. The Law of Moses truly punished them tooth for a tooth, and the ancient Babylonian Code of Hammurabi punished them four or even five teeth for a tooth, but none of that was sufficient to stop their malpractice.

The medieval European noblemen punished them on the rack by disjointing their shoulders and hips and pulling their four limbs asunder for having pulled four teeth unnecessarily, but they were soon enough healed by their fellow doctors and back in business pulling teeth.

For the pernicious mayhem and murder exacted by the medical Establishment even in recent history, they had to be hanged in the gallows at the Nuremberg war crimes tribunals, and those that escaped hunted to the ends of the earth in order to stop such vicious practices from being committed in the guise of medicine, religion, and law.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

For those with faith no evidence is necessary; for those without it, no evidence will suffice. St. Thomas Aquinas

Is this video ok or I should work on it more?

No. There can be no "evidence" of magic, inherently. Evidence relies on determinism and physical law. Once you assert something magical, you have disqualified yourself from the use of evidence to support it. Thus, faith, i.e., belief without evidence.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

That's one of the flaws of humans when you're looking for something desperate to believe it you will find evidence to prove it in anything

Even more to the point: EVERYTHING is then regarded as evidence. Which, of course, is folly and, essentially, intellectual fraud. If nothing could ever possibly be "evidence against", then nothing can be "evidence for", either. The concept of evidentiary support is rendered moot.

 

[Leviticus]

Two people with very different beliefs can read the same passage of a the Bible or other religious texts and find evidence that proves there beliefs even if their beliefs are total opposites.

 

[justinacolmena]

Two people with very different beliefs can read the same passage of a the Bible or other religious texts and find evidence that proves there beliefs even if their beliefs are total opposites.

It doesn't matter. You read some text and you are about to harm an innocent child by doing something you would already know is wrong even if you were completely uneducated or unable to read. Or based on some other text in the deadness of the letter of the law you go about ruining other innocent people's lives on a pretext of mental health, national security, etc. etc.