Ford keeping V8's to 2040!!

[Cardinal Carminative]

What about an apartment complex with no parking spaces and the vehicle averages over 100 miles per day?

Probably best to just not develop any new technology. There's absolutely nothing about American industry that values "growth" and "development" or R&D.

 

[ding]

I have lithium battery operated lawn and power tools because they make sense. I have ICE vehicles for the same reason.

 

[ding]

Probably best to just not develop any new technology. There's absolutely nothing about American industry that values "growth" and "development" or R&D.

Or it's probably better for the market to develop new technologies organically and not because of a problem we don't have that wouldn't be solved by these solutions if we did have that problem.

Government controlled markets do not work. There's no such thing as a free lunch and it's naive to think this transition will go smoothly.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

I have lithium battery operated lawn and power tools because they make sense. I have ICE vehicles for the same reason.

I have also moved all my power tools over to rechargeable. My EV car actually DOES make sense for me. But then I've got a lot of advantages folks like you may lack. I have a reasonably nice home and I made the right property investments to afford to put solar on my home and a 220V charging drop in the garage. It's a really sweet deal because I haven't paid for fuel to drive for about 3 years now and I have only ever paid 2 electricity bills in the past 6 years (in my previous home I also had solar and I went about 8 years without paying an electricity bill).

It makes good sense for me. Maybe not for everyone.

 

[ding]

I'm pretty sure the Tow Truck Drivers Association of America are fully supportive of switching to EV's.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Or it's probably better for the market to develop new technologies organically

Hmmm, that's interesting. Because there's a lot of industry that DOESN'T work like that. The technology you use in your daily life is LOADED with government mandated developments. From the computer you're typing this on to the electronics in just about everything around you.

The US Government has been largely responsible for most of the agricultural breakthroughs that keep you fed affordably. Even the transistors in your electronics came out of Bell Labs which was mandated by the government to develop technology in return for Bell Telephone's effective monopoly over telecommunications in the early days.

Government controlled markets do not work.

You don't live in America? Yeah, our market has a HUGE amount of government control on it. And you benefit from that.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

I'm pretty sure the Tow Truck Drivers Association of America are fully supportive of switching to EV's.

Umm, you may not realize this but EV cars have a "fuel gauge" of sorts so we know when we are running out of energy.

Just a hint.

 

[ding]

I have also moved all my power tools over to rechargeable. My EV car actually DOES make sense for me. But then I've got a lot of advantages folks like you may lack. I have a reasonably nice home and I made the right property investments to afford to put solar on my home and a 220V charging drop in the garage. It's a really sweet deal because I haven't paid for fuel to drive for about 3 years now and I have only ever paid 2 electricity bills in the past 6 years (in my previous home I also had solar and I went about 8 years without paying an electricity bill).

It makes good sense for me. Maybe not for everyone.

First of all the widespread use of solar is the best way to usher in the next glacial cycle. Secondly, you are correct when you say EV's are not for everyone. In fact, I suspect the subset of people it does make sense for is small. Specifically, the affluent who do not live in hot climates and have a second vehicle which has an ICE.

 

[rightwinger]

Car value. Currently, batteries become exhausted and must be replaced after a number of charging cycles. This leads to there being no secondary vehicle market, which puts most EV's out of the reach of a significant portion of the population. Until batteries can be swapped out at a reasonable cost at a station instead of being recharged, that will remain a large obstacle.

Most batteries will need to be replaced at least once in the cars lifetime at a cost of $6-10,000

While that is a lot of money to put out, you are saving on gas engine maintenance that will not be needed in an EV
Oil changes, tune ups, exhaust system, cooling system, emission controls, belts, hoses wiring
Replacing a motor or transmission in an EV will be significantly cheaper

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

First of all the widespread use of solar is the best way to usher in the next glacial cycle.

That's pretty funny. Thanks for morning laugh.

Secondly, you are correct when you say EV's are not for everyone. In fact, I suspect the subset of people it does make sense for is small.

You mean people who make rational decisions with their money? OK.

Specifically, the affluent who do not live in hot climates and have a second vehicle which has an ICE.

Hot climates would be GREAT for my EV! My estimated mileage on a charge goes WAY UP!

 

[rightwinger]

Umm, you may not realize this but EV cars have a "fuel gauge" of sorts so we know when we are running out of energy.

Just a hint.

An EV will not only alert you when you are running low on power but will give you directions to the nearest charging station

 

[hadit]

Most batteries will need to be replaced at least once in the cars lifetime at a cost of $6-10,000

While that is a lot of money to put out, you are saving on gas engine maintenance that will not be needed in an EV
Oil changes, tune ups, exhaust system, cooling system, emission controls, belts, hoses wiring
Replacing a motor or transmission in an EV will be significantly cheaper

My dream would be a standardized size of batteries that are linked together to form the complete battery pack. A refueling station then would simply swap out exhausted batteries for fully charged ones and recharge the replaced ones.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

My dream would be a standardized size of batteries that are linked together to form the complete battery pack. A refueling station then would simply swap out exhausted batteries for fully charged ones and recharge the replaced ones.

This is one of the systems I've heard proposed. It's kinda cool. It would certainly help with range-anxiety. The infrastructure DOES need to be developed for EV's but then gas stations had to be developed for ICE cars when they started out.

 

[ding]

Hmmm, that's interesting. Because there's a lot of industry that DOESN'T work like that. The technology you use in your daily life is LOADED with government mandated developments. From the computer you're typing this on to the electronics in just about everything around you.

The US Government has been largely responsible for most of the agricultural breakthroughs that keep you fed affordably. Even the transistors in your electronics came out of Bell Labs which was mandated by the government to develop technology in return for Bell Telephone's effective monopoly over telecommunications in the early days.

Ummm... you argue that a lot of industries don't organically develop as a result of market forces but instead are developed because of government mandate but you only provide one example. Can you name any others?

Also, I just did a quick check on your Bell laboratory claim and can't seem to corroborate it at all. Do you have any proof supporting your assertion.

And lastly, whenever possible the government has always chosen to avoid monopolies. For example the break up of Standard Oil, the deregulation of pipeline companies and the deregulation of electric markets. So comparing mandates to every car manufacturer to a Bell Labs in exchange for a monopoly (if indeed that did happen) is an apples to oranges comparison.

 

[hadit]

First of all the widespread use of solar is the best way to usher in the next glacial cycle. Secondly, you are correct when you say EV's are not for everyone. In fact, I suspect the subset of people it does make sense for is small. Specifically, the affluent who do not live in hot climates and have a second vehicle which has an ICE.

Actually, urban dwellers would be the most likely to benefit from EV's. Short trips, lots of braking to recoup energy for charging, high population density allowing for more available charging stations, less smog and air pollution, etc. And there are a lot of urban dwellers.

 

[ding]

You don't live in America? Yeah, our market has a HUGE amount of government control on it. And you benefit from that.

I do live in America that's where I got my silly idea of free enterprise.

 

[rightwinger]

What about an apartment complex with no parking spaces and the vehicle averages over 100 miles per day?

You are playing both sides of the fence
A person living in an apartment complex with no parking is probably residing in a city. City dwellers do not normally drive over 100 miles a day.

The bigger question is how will city dwellers charge their vehicles?
Most city dwellers do not commute outside the city and they drive significantly less than those who live in rural or suburban areas.
So while most drivers may charge once a week, a city dweller may charge once every two to three weeks

Cities NEED a large percentage of EVs to cut down on air pollution

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Ummm... you argue that a lot of industries don't organically develop as a result of market forces but instead are developed because of government mandate but you only provide one example.

I thought I gave several examples. The transistor which is at the core of most of the electronics you use. The agriculture that feeds you. That stuff is government-mandate related.

Also, I just did a quick check on your Bell laboratory claim and can't seem to corroborate it at all. Do you have any proof supporting your assertion.

Yeah:

Amazon product ASIN B005GSZIWG
Check it out. It's the history of Bell Labs. Bell Telephone wound up being the defacto monopoly in the early days of telephony and the government effectively told them that they wouldn't bust them up or make them give up their monopoly if they developed the Labs to provide additional technology.

It's a model like the USDA Agricultural Research Service which as been in existence since the 1800's. The mandate is to develop technology for agriculture and then provide the IP and technology to American farmers at reduced or no license fee to utilize. The number of advancements that came from the USDA are amazing. You can read them here:

about : USDA ARS

www.ars.usda.gov

And don't forget NASA! Those folks effectively developed a HUGE chunk of technology you enjoy. Medical science was also affected.

Space Spinoffs: The Technology To Reach The Moon Was Put To Use Back On Earth

Project Apollo spurred on a technological revolution — everything from advances in food packaging to computers. Fifty years later, we are still reaping the rewards.

www.npr.org

 

[ding]

Maybe you should check with the experts who actually WORK in this area.

Fact Sheet | Fossil Fuel Subsidies: A Closer Look at Tax Breaks and Societal Costs (2019) | White Papers | EESI

www.eesi.org

Fossil fuel industry gets subsidies of $11m a minute, IMF finds

Trillions of dollars a year are ‘adding fuel to the fire’ of the climate crisis, experts say

www.theguardian.com

Thumbnail it for me.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

I do live in America that's where I got my silly idea of free enterprise.

Oh, then you don't understand the market you live in. Got it.