Forget Econ Stats, Do Americans Feel Economic Exhuberance or Malaise?

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Forget Econ Stats, Do Americans Feel Economic Exhuberance or Malaise?

How typically conservative.

Ignore the facts and truth and instead seek to propagate subjective partisan dogma.

 

[EconChick]

I asked if you wanted personal anecdotes. I've got some. Why so rude? Feeling insecure?

Post whatever you want. You're not someone people take seriously. But it's a free country....I encourage you to do or post whatever makes you happy. Just don't be shocked if you're ignored.

Are you someone people take seriously? Did someone tell you that?

My business is up 30% year on year. I service the construction industry here in Central Florida. Do you know anything about the construction industry in Central Florida?

Are you aware that it is a common tactic for lame asses to accuse others of not posting "anything of substance" here? I will give you what you seek, dummy. I will pay attention to you for a few days. Have a little fun at your expense. Enjoy.

And this has to do with this topic how?????

Don't answer. It doesn't. Have all the fun at my expense that you want. I could give a shit.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Econ chick...you are doing a great job but you might as well talk to the wall. The fault is with all the morons in DC and it continues. As Freewill's avatar says...we are so mad we are making signs...soon we will be using more violent means...and G0000 will still be placing blame and inspecting her navel.

If we need your expertise on how to threaten to shoot up the place when you don't get your way, we'll ask. But when it comes to economics, you would be better off letting the grownups talk.

I am getting/have gotten my way all my life though luck and hard work...I want it to continue for my grandkids...I leave the pontificating and hack analysis to useless people such as yourself.

I'm glad to see that you recognize the luck factor.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Post whatever you want. You're not someone people take seriously. But it's a free country....I encourage you to do or post whatever makes you happy. Just don't be shocked if you're ignored.

Are you someone people take seriously? Did someone tell you that?

My business is up 30% year on year. I service the construction industry here in Central Florida. Do you know anything about the construction industry in Central Florida?

Are you aware that it is a common tactic for lame asses to accuse others of not posting "anything of substance" here? I will give you what you seek, dummy. I will pay attention to you for a few days. Have a little fun at your expense. Enjoy.

And this has to do with this topic how?????

Don't answer. It doesn't. Have all the fun at my expense that you want. I could give a shit.

Re-read your OP. You asked for our feelings. I'm feeling very optimistic about the economy. July is usually a slow month for me. Not this year. Blew away last July's sales numbers 6 days ago. My customers are busy three quarters out.

Is that not the topic, loser?

 

[EconChick]

If we need your expertise on how to threaten to shoot up the place when you don't get your way, we'll ask. But when it comes to economics, you would be better off letting the grownups talk.

What's your objection to common sense comments???

Some people have the ability to pull way the hell back out of the stats and see the big picture.

That was part of the point I made in my OP.

In the economy threads, so much discussion is around stats that can be twisted and spun. I like when people pull back to the big px.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Those who act on "soon we will be using more violent means..." will be erased by their neighbors.

 

[EconChick]

Are you someone people take seriously? Did someone tell you that?

My business is up 30% year on year. I service the construction industry here in Central Florida. Do you know anything about the construction industry in Central Florida?

Are you aware that it is a common tactic for lame asses to accuse others of not posting "anything of substance" here? I will give you what you seek, dummy. I will pay attention to you for a few days. Have a little fun at your expense. Enjoy.

And this has to do with this topic how?????

Don't answer. It doesn't. Have all the fun at my expense that you want. I could give a shit.

Re-read your OP. You asked for our feelings. I'm feeling very optimistic about the economy. July is usually a slow month for me. Not this year. Blew away last July's sales numbers 6 days ago. My customers are busy three quarters out.

Is that not the topic, loser?

Good Lord you are dense. I'm talking about the entire economy. I'm sure gun sales are up too. Some things have an inverse relationship.

If you live in Florida, you have to really not be paying attention to see how bummed many people are in that state.

How you think that one little data point - if it can even be believed - reflects on the whole economy is in keeping with quite a flaky POV.

 

[Dad2three]

Bush's Homeowner Society????????????? You mean the Barney Franks and other libs in the Congress didn't want as many Americans to have homes as possible????

That's about as incorrect and disingenuous as it gets.

Both parties went whole hog on that. And their intentions were actually honorable...problem is politicians always fail to anticipate unintended consequences.

BARNEY? Minority member of the GOP majority House 1995-Jan 2007, Barney?


June 17, 2004



NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Home builders, realtors and others are preparing to fight a Bush administration plan that would require Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to increase financing of homes for low-income people, a home builder group said Thursday.

Home builders fight Bush's low-income housing - Jun. 17, 2004

Fannie, Freddie to Suffer Under New Rule, Frank Says

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac would suffer financially under a Bush administration requirement that they channel more mortgage financing to people with low incomes, said the senior Democrat on a congressional panel that sets regulations for the companies.


So if your narrative is "GSEs are to blame" then you have to blame bush


http://democrats.financialservices....s/112/06-17-04-new-Fannie-goals-Bloomberg.pdf


In an op-ed piece in the Wall Street Journal, Lawrence B. Lindsey, a former economic adviser to President George W. Bush, wrote that Frank "is the only politician I know who has argued that we needed tighter rules that intentionally produce fewer homeowners and more renters."


DUBYA REGULATOR FAILURE. WHO WAS IN CHARGE OF THE FBI, SEC, F/F, HUD, ETC?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/362889-facts-on-dubya-s-great-recession.html

So you dig up one thing Frank says and ignore the other 50 big-spending things he says??????????? Way to go, that's persuasive.

Please anyone out there..... raise your hand if you think Barney Frank was a financial conservative who urged as little spending, as little government subsidization, and as little handouts as Dad2three would have you think.

Nope, don't see any hands.

What does spending have to do with DUBYA'S REGULATOR PROBLEM AS HE CHEERED ON THE BANKSTERS IN A WORLD WIDE CREDIT BUBBLE? Grow a brain



I know, the Dems and Barney HATED regulations and regulators right?

BUSH REGULATORS ON WALL STREET 2004

 

[Dad2three]

Who is stopping regulation of derivatives today?

Like the man said, "Follow the money".

Party affiliation is no indicator of who is in Wall Street's pocket and who is not. Where the money flows is a great indicator, though.

Kinda true but NOT. Which party REFUSES to try regulation and wants to roll back Dodd/Frank? Which party is 'believing in' self regulation?

 

[LoneLaugher]

And this has to do with this topic how?????

Don't answer. It doesn't. Have all the fun at my expense that you want. I could give a shit.

Re-read your OP. You asked for our feelings. I'm feeling very optimistic about the economy. July is usually a slow month for me. Not this year. Blew away last July's sales numbers 6 days ago. My customers are busy three quarters out.

Is that not the topic, loser?

Good Lord you are dense. I'm talking about the entire economy. I'm sure gun sales are up too. Some things have an inverse relationship.

If you live in Florida, you have to really not be paying attention to see how bummed many people are in that state.

How you think that one little data point - if it can even be believed - reflects on the whole economy is in keeping with quite a flaky POV.

Ohhhhhhh! You don't want personal anecdotes? You want some data? Cool.

Here, dummy. This is how Americans FEEL.

https://www.conference-board.org/data/consumerconfidence.cfm

You knew about that index, right?

Thread fail.

 

[deltex1]

Those who act on "soon we will be using more violent means..." will be erased by their neighbors.

That depends on who your neighbors are...

 

[EconChick]

I asked if you wanted personal anecdotes. I've got some. Why so rude? Feeling insecure?

Post whatever you want. You're not someone people take seriously. But it's a free country....I encourage you to do or post whatever makes you happy. Just don't be shocked if you're ignored.

Ignore the facts ... what's shocking when a RW'r does that ?

( and this is from 2013)

Had Bush left office one year earlier, in January 2008, his performance would have looked quite good, with 5.6 million jobs created during his tenure. But the economy tanked in 2008, hemorrhaging 4.5 million jobs during Bush's last year in office. That left total job growth during his eight years of just 1.1 million jobs—a figure the Obama ought to eclipse by this summer, if the economy keeps growing.

If the economy adds an average of 150,000 jobs per month during Obama's entire second term, which is plausible, then it will have created about 7.7 million jobs by the time Obama leaves office. Many presidents have done better, but not the one Obama replaced
.


Questions LiarChick

No questions for someone so lacking in math. The financial crash was caused by policies enacted by both parties. Anyone who is objective knows that. Moreso, anyone who is objective knows more of that came from the party with the usual handout mentality, government intervention mentality, government-fixes-all mentality.

Just because the crash happened on Bush's watch doesn't mean it was caused 100% by him. Crashes are always a result of policies that span multiple presidencies. Everyone knows that. Everyone.

And here's some other things the uninformed fail to mention:

Bush inherited the Clinton economy as it was moving into what's called the trough of the business cycle. Clinton didn't hand him the upside of the cycle, it was the downside Bush had to fix.

In 2011 we were hit by terrorists who did a lot of damage to the economy. Here's an area where you'll see liberals show what consummate know-nothings they are. Bush had to enact a number of things to bring us back from that hit, much like the way we had to recover after Pearl Harbor was hit.

Do you ever see a liberal account for that? Noooooooo. No. And No. But then a liberal's response to attack on the homeland would be just turn the other cheek anyway being the pacifists that they are.

Please one of you liberals tell me how much it costs the economy when you shut down the entire airline industry and all the secondary business connected to that. I've yet to see one do it.

Bush does take blame for adding the cost of Medicare D and the Rep Party does have it's part to blame for the financial meltdown, but for anyone trying to claim the meltdown was all Bush, they're as corrupt and brainless as they come.

 

[Dad2three]

Post whatever you want. You're not someone people take seriously. But it's a free country....I encourage you to do or post whatever makes you happy. Just don't be shocked if you're ignored.

Ignore the facts ... what's shocking when a RW'r does that ?

( and this is from 2013)

Had Bush left office one year earlier, in January 2008, his performance would have looked quite good, with 5.6 million jobs created during his tenure. But the economy tanked in 2008, hemorrhaging 4.5 million jobs during Bush's last year in office. That left total job growth during his eight years of just 1.1 million jobs—a figure the Obama ought to eclipse by this summer, if the economy keeps growing.

If the economy adds an average of 150,000 jobs per month during Obama's entire second term, which is plausible, then it will have created about 7.7 million jobs by the time Obama leaves office. Many presidents have done better, but not the one Obama replaced
.


Questions LiarChick

No questions for someone so lacking in math. The financial crash was caused by policies enacted by both parties. Anyone who is objective knows that. Moreso, anyone who is objective knows more of that came from the party with the usual handout mentality, government intervention mentality, government-fixes-all mentality.

Just because the crash happened on Bush's watch doesn't mean it was caused 100% by him. Crashes are always a result of policies that span multiple presidencies. Everyone knows that. Everyone.

And here's some other things the uninformed fail to mention:

Bush inherited the Clinton economy as it was moving into what's called the trough of the business cycle. Clinton didn't hand him the upside of the cycle, it was the downside Bush had to fix.

In 2011 we were hit by terrorists who did a lot of damage to the economy. Here's an area where you'll see liberals show what consummate know-nothings they are. Bush had to enact a number of things to bring us back from that hit, much like the way we had to recover after Pearl Harbor was hit.

Do you ever see a liberal account for that? Noooooooo. No. And No. But then a liberal's response to attack on the homeland would be just turn the other cheek anyway being the pacifists that they are.

Please one of you liberals tell me how much it costs the economy when you shut down the entire airline industry and all the secondary business connected to that. I've yet to see one do it.

Bush does take blame for adding the cost of Medicare D and the Rep Party does have it's part to blame for the financial meltdown, but for anyone trying to claim the meltdown was all Bush, they're as corrupt and brainless as they come.

"The financial crash was caused by policies enacted by both parties."

lol

Bush’s President’s Working Group on Financial Markets October 2008

“The Presidents Working Group’s March policy statement acknowledged that turmoil in financial markets clearly was triggered by a dramatic weakening of underwriting standards for U.S. subprime mortgages, beginning in late 2004 and extending into 2007.”



The FBI has been warning of an "epidemic" of mortgage fraud since September 2004. It also reports that lenders initiated 80% of these frauds



The FBI correctly identified the epidemic of mortgage control fraud at such an early point that the financial crisis could have been averted had the Bush administration acted with even minimal competence. To understand the crisis we have to focus on how the mortgage fraud epidemic produced widespread accounting fraud.


Don't ask; don't tell: book profits, "earn" bonuses and closet your losses

The first document everyone should read is by S&P, the largest of the rating agencies. The context of the document is that a professional credit rater has told his superiors that he needs to examine the mortgage loan files to evaluate the risk of a complex financial derivative whose risk and market value depend on the credit quality of the nonprime mortgages "underlying" the derivative. A senior manager sends a blistering reply with this forceful punctuation:

Any request for loan level tapes is TOTALLY UNREASONABLE!!! Most investors don't have it and can't provide it. [W]e MUST produce a credit estimate. It is your responsibility to provide those credit estimates and your responsibility to devise some method for doing so.


William K. Black: The Two Documents Everyone Should Read to Better Understand the Crisis

 

[LoneLaugher]

Clinton owns much of the blame for the shitty state of the economy. Of course....his errors were the result of his borrowing ideas from cons. But he did fuck up.

If Bush had recognized the problems when he took the reins, he might have done something about them. But he didn't. He was a full on supporter of free trade agreements and weak regulatory atmosphere that led to our being fucked.

EconChic is right. The troubles began long ago.

But.....that does not pertain to the topic of this thread. This thread assumes that Americans are down on the economy. They are not.....especially in comparison to January, 2009.

Fucking thread fail.

 

[Dad2three]

Post whatever you want. You're not someone people take seriously. But it's a free country....I encourage you to do or post whatever makes you happy. Just don't be shocked if you're ignored.

Ignore the facts ... what's shocking when a RW'r does that ?

( and this is from 2013)

Had Bush left office one year earlier, in January 2008, his performance would have looked quite good, with 5.6 million jobs created during his tenure. But the economy tanked in 2008, hemorrhaging 4.5 million jobs during Bush's last year in office. That left total job growth during his eight years of just 1.1 million jobs—a figure the Obama ought to eclipse by this summer, if the economy keeps growing.

If the economy adds an average of 150,000 jobs per month during Obama's entire second term, which is plausible, then it will have created about 7.7 million jobs by the time Obama leaves office. Many presidents have done better, but not the one Obama replaced
.


Questions LiarChick

No questions for someone so lacking in math. The financial crash was caused by policies enacted by both parties. Anyone who is objective knows that. Moreso, anyone who is objective knows more of that came from the party with the usual handout mentality, government intervention mentality, government-fixes-all mentality.

Just because the crash happened on Bush's watch doesn't mean it was caused 100% by him. Crashes are always a result of policies that span multiple presidencies. Everyone knows that. Everyone.

And here's some other things the uninformed fail to mention:

Bush inherited the Clinton economy as it was moving into what's called the trough of the business cycle. Clinton didn't hand him the upside of the cycle, it was the downside Bush had to fix.

In 2011 we were hit by terrorists who did a lot of damage to the economy. Here's an area where you'll see liberals show what consummate know-nothings they are. Bush had to enact a number of things to bring us back from that hit, much like the way we had to recover after Pearl Harbor was hit.

Do you ever see a liberal account for that? Noooooooo. No. And No. But then a liberal's response to attack on the homeland would be just turn the other cheek anyway being the pacifists that they are.

Please one of you liberals tell me how much it costs the economy when you shut down the entire airline industry and all the secondary business connected to that. I've yet to see one do it.

Bush does take blame for adding the cost of Medicare D and the Rep Party does have it's part to blame for the financial meltdown, but for anyone trying to claim the meltdown was all Bush, they're as corrupt and brainless as they come.

David Stockman, Ex-Reagan Budget Director: George W. Bush's Policies Bankrupt The Country

“(Reagan’s deficit policies) allowed George W. Bush to dive into the deep end, bankrupting the nation through two misbegotten and unfinanced wars, a giant expansion of Medicare and a tax-cutting spree for the wealthy that turned K Street lobbyists into the de facto office of national tax policy,” Stockman wrote.


David Stockman, Ex-Reagan Budget Director: George W. Bush's Policies Bankrupt The Country


Lots of programs have always been in place to encourage home ownership, etc, but the absolutely insane stuff came when the banks basically gave up on lending standards.


The Bush Mortgage Bubble started in late 2004. that was the same year bush implemented his toxic housing polcies



One president controlled the regulators that not only let banks stop checking income but cheered them on. And as president Bush could enact the very policies that caused the Bush Mortgage Bubble and he did. And his party controlled congress.

 

[Dad2three]

Clinton owns much of the blame for the shitty state of the economy. Of course....his errors were the result of his borrowing ideas from cons. But he did fuck up.

If Bush had recognized the problems when he took the reins, he might have done something about them. But he didn't. He was a full on supporter of free trade agreements and weak regulatory atmosphere that led to our being fucked.

EconChic is right. The troubles began long ago.

But.....that does not pertain to the topic of this thread. This thread assumes that Americans are down on the economy. They are not.....especially in comparison to January, 2009.

Fucking thread fail.

Bush’s President’s Working Group on Financial Markets October 2008

“The Presidents Working Group’s March policy statement acknowledged that turmoil in financial markets clearly was triggered by a dramatic weakening of underwriting standards for U.S. subprime mortgages, beginning in late 2004 and extending into 2007.”


2000 US mortgage origination $1 trillion a year

2004-2007 $4 TRILLION A YEAR

Bush REQUIRED F/F to buy $44o BILLION in MBS's to meet his 'affordable housing goals', the ones he ramped up from 50% to 56% for F/F AND TOOK CLINTON'S RULE OF NOT CREDITING F/F FOR 'HIGH COST (SEE SUBPRIME LOANS) OFF IN 2004


DUBYA FOUGHT ALL 50 STATE AG'S IN 2003, INVOKING A CIVIL WAR ERA RULE SAYING FEDS RULE ON "PREDATORY" LENDERS!

Dubya was warned by the FBI of an "epidemic" of mortgage fraud in 2004. He gave them less resources. Later in 2004 Dubya allowed the leverage rules to go from 12-1 to 35+-1 which flooded the market with cheap money!

US household debt doubled under Bush. WHILE incomes stagnated

CLINTON?

 

[EconChick]

Re-read your OP. You asked for our feelings. I'm feeling very optimistic about the economy. July is usually a slow month for me. Not this year. Blew away last July's sales numbers 6 days ago. My customers are busy three quarters out.

Is that not the topic, loser?

Good Lord you are dense. I'm talking about the entire economy. I'm sure gun sales are up too. Some things have an inverse relationship.

If you live in Florida, you have to really not be paying attention to see how bummed many people are in that state.

How you think that one little data point - if it can even be believed - reflects on the whole economy is in keeping with quite a flaky POV.

Ohhhhhhh! You don't want personal anecdotes? You want some data? Cool.

Here, dummy. This is how Americans FEEL.

https://www.conference-board.org/data/consumerconfidence.cfm

You knew about that index, right?

Thread fail.

I love when you reveal what a really low IQ you have. First of all, June's wasn't that great, but being the genius that you are, you failed to look at the current data - for July.

It ain't good goldilocks.

U.S. consumer sentiment dips in preliminary July reading | Reuters


U.S. Consumer Sentiment Dips in Preliminary July readings



(Reuters) - U.S. consumer sentiment dipped in early July while an index of consumer expectations weakened for a third straight month, a survey released on Friday showed..........


LL, you really need to head off to the Macy's sales rack and leave this discussion to people who have a clue.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

How can you debate people like Krugman and Dads 2 who don't even know what a sumprime mortgage is or understand that the government was slapping AAA rating on subprime paper?!!

 

[Dad2three]

Post whatever you want. You're not someone people take seriously. But it's a free country....I encourage you to do or post whatever makes you happy. Just don't be shocked if you're ignored.

Ignore the facts ... what's shocking when a RW'r does that ?

( and this is from 2013)

Had Bush left office one year earlier, in January 2008, his performance would have looked quite good, with 5.6 million jobs created during his tenure. But the economy tanked in 2008, hemorrhaging 4.5 million jobs during Bush's last year in office. That left total job growth during his eight years of just 1.1 million jobs—a figure the Obama ought to eclipse by this summer, if the economy keeps growing.

If the economy adds an average of 150,000 jobs per month during Obama's entire second term, which is plausible, then it will have created about 7.7 million jobs by the time Obama leaves office. Many presidents have done better, but not the one Obama replaced
.


Questions LiarChick

No questions for someone so lacking in math. The financial crash was caused by policies enacted by both parties. Anyone who is objective knows that. Moreso, anyone who is objective knows more of that came from the party with the usual handout mentality, government intervention mentality, government-fixes-all mentality.

Just because the crash happened on Bush's watch doesn't mean it was caused 100% by him. Crashes are always a result of policies that span multiple presidencies. Everyone knows that. Everyone.

And here's some other things the uninformed fail to mention:

Bush inherited the Clinton economy as it was moving into what's called the trough of the business cycle. Clinton didn't hand him the upside of the cycle, it was the downside Bush had to fix.

In 2011 we were hit by terrorists who did a lot of damage to the economy. Here's an area where you'll see liberals show what consummate know-nothings they are. Bush had to enact a number of things to bring us back from that hit, much like the way we had to recover after Pearl Harbor was hit.

Do you ever see a liberal account for that? Noooooooo. No. And No. But then a liberal's response to attack on the homeland would be just turn the other cheek anyway being the pacifists that they are.

Please one of you liberals tell me how much it costs the economy when you shut down the entire airline industry and all the secondary business connected to that. I've yet to see one do it.

Bush does take blame for adding the cost of Medicare D and the Rep Party does have it's part to blame for the financial meltdown, but for anyone trying to claim the meltdown was all Bush, they're as corrupt and brainless as they come.

We already know what economic policies work best for our country. Clinton knew that we had to cut spending and increase revenues. We had revenues of 20.6% of GDP and a surplus in 2000. Then something terrible happened, the Republicans gained complete control in 2001 and instead of sticking with what was working they decided that their ideology was more important. The debt has gone up $12 trillion since then.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Good Lord you are dense. I'm talking about the entire economy. I'm sure gun sales are up too. Some things have an inverse relationship.

If you live in Florida, you have to really not be paying attention to see how bummed many people are in that state.

How you think that one little data point - if it can even be believed - reflects on the whole economy is in keeping with quite a flaky POV.

Ohhhhhhh! You don't want personal anecdotes? You want some data? Cool.

Here, dummy. This is how Americans FEEL.

https://www.conference-board.org/data/consumerconfidence.cfm

You knew about that index, right?

Thread fail.

I love when you reveal what a really low IQ you have. First of all, June's wasn't that great, but being the genius that you are, you failed to look at the current data - for July.

It ain't good goldilocks.


U.S. consumer sentiment dips in preliminary July reading | Reuters


U.S. Consumer Sentiment Dips in Preliminary July readings



(Reuters) - U.S. consumer sentiment dipped in early July while an index of consumer expectations weakened for a third straight month, a survey released on Friday showed..........


LL, you really need to head off to the Macy's sales rack and leave this discussion to people who have a clue.

Funny. How is it in comparison to January 2009?

I own some funds that include Macy's. But I shop at Men's Wearhouse and The Gap. You want some style tips?

This thread sucks, doesn't it? You have yet to prove the premise. Bottom line.....you said. Your bottom line is fucking wrong. Some economist.