Forgiveness

[BreezeWood]

How do you forgive someone who doesn't want to be forgiven because they don't believe they did anything wrong.

it would be interesting to know if there is a problem whether your sister and her son developed a close relationship, and not judgmental but did the son wish to leave for his mother ?

are you close with your sister now ?

it seems your sister and you should be a strength together ... knowing better together against an ill-will by your father.


"... they don't believe they did anything wrong".

that is puzzling, and I would be in agreement but were your parents in some way held responsible in why the child was taken from them ?

.

They had him for 2.5 years, he's in his mid-thirties now. They've always been very close, as are my sister and I.

Bop: and I will never believe she made the wrong decision in taking her son away from them.

sounds like a winner to me ... there really does not seem to be an issue.

.

 

[syrenn]

I recognize that, which is why I alluded to empathy and contrition. In my family of origin, the blame-n-shame game was a regular event whereby the victim was victimized again through being made aware that the perpetrator was not responsible for their actions. These things would not have happened - but the victim just made them so angry.

That's why as an adult, my motto became "own your own."

and what of the "own your own" people who own that they just go out and bludgeon the world.... its just me... there i owned my own.... im sorry...and do it all again and again and again?

That I do not know. The ones in my immediate family wound up driving me away because not only were they incredibly toxic (dangerously so) but when they were in the 'sane' place, they would gain trust, followed by information, which would then be used against me the next time they came undone.

Ah, a trip down memory lane.

so why the need for forgiveness?

The did what they did. It is what it is. They are what they are and will not change.....

 

[BDBoop]

It is a bit convoluted, so I will try again.

I am trying to find my way clear to forgiving him for not forgiving me for something that I did not do. I didn't "talk my sister into" taking her son. I had nothing to do with it. He can't hear me. And I need to just let it go.

 

[BDBoop]

When I referred to the toxic people in my immediate family I was not referring to him. I was referring to a sibling and that sibling's spouse.

 

[Gracie]

I was confused. I thought you were talking about your dad. Which made the whole thing confusing.
So the sibling wants you to apologize for something you had no part of?
Pffffffffffffft.

 

[BDBoop]

I was confused. I thought you were talking about your dad. Which made the whole thing confusing.
So the sibling wants you to apologize for something you had no part of?
Pffffffffffffft.

No, I was talking about my dad. But when Syrenn started talking about toxicity, my answer was in reference to my sibling and her spouse, who have nothing to do with any of it except the damage they have done in the past.

 

[Gracie]

Ok. Scratching my head but it's none of my biz so I will butt out. However, I can relate. So you have my sympathies.

BTDT with my own family. Which is why I am a recluse and thrilled my sister and I are not close and do not speak. No drama. And when there is...all I have to do is hang up.

 

[BDBoop]

The toxic sister has not been seen since my mother's funeral in February 2011. And I believe it was eight years between the funeral and the last time I saw them.

It is my hope that I never see them again.

 

[syrenn]

It is a bit convoluted, so I will try again.

I am trying to find my way clear to forgiving him for not forgiving me for something that I did not do. I didn't "talk my sister into" taking her son. I had nothing to do with it. He can't hear me. And I need to just let it go.

Here is what i am seeing at this point


you dont want to forgive him.... You dont really feel the forgivness.

but for some reason you think that forgiving him will make things better and or right with you and them.

 

[Moonglow]

My sis and I fought a lot, and even up to her death in 2007 we hardly spoke to each other. Oh how I wished I had a sibling to fight with... Before it's too late, confirm your love and do not expect repayment of actions by yourself that are noble and of good gesture....

 

[Gracie]

It is a bit convoluted, so I will try again.

I am trying to find my way clear to forgiving him for not forgiving me for something that I did not do. I didn't "talk my sister into" taking her son. I had nothing to do with it. He can't hear me. And I need to just let it go.

ok. So, doing what I said I was not going to do (butting out), I will ask why you want to forgive him for not forgiving you. Why is this important to you on YOUR end?
You can forgive someone for continuing to hold a grudge over something he thinks you did because you are not in control of HIS actions or minds. Only your own. He can't hear you because he doesn't want to. He needs a scapegoat. You are it. You will always be it. So I think you are on the right track of "just let it go". But it seems you are having difficulty with that so concern yourself with your own best interests and do as you said you need to do. Let it go.

 

[BDBoop]

Yes, I came to that conclusion several hours ago.

 

[BDBoop]

It is a bit convoluted, so I will try again.

I am trying to find my way clear to forgiving him for not forgiving me for something that I did not do. I didn't "talk my sister into" taking her son. I had nothing to do with it. He can't hear me. And I need to just let it go.

Here is what i am seeing at this point


you dont want to forgive him.... You dont really feel the forgivness.

but for some reason you think that forgiving him will make things better and or right with you and them.

Not at all. I want to because not forgiving is a very unhealthy place for me to be, mentally. My mother literally bore grudges for decades. She would say she wasn't, but she was she never let anything go. Ever.

I can't be that person.

 

[BDBoop]

My sis and I fought a lot, and even up to her death in 2007 we hardly spoke to each other. Oh how I wished I had a sibling to fight with... Before it's too late, confirm your love and do not expect repayment of actions by yourself that are noble and of good gesture....

Honey I am really sorry for your loss? But my guess is, your sister was not a drunken sociopath. This isn't about anywhere in the realm of normal familial bonds. This is about literally dangerous people.

The price is too high.

 

[Gracie]

Then you made the right decision to let it go. So concentrate on that.

 

[syrenn]

It is a bit convoluted, so I will try again.

I am trying to find my way clear to forgiving him for not forgiving me for something that I did not do. I didn't "talk my sister into" taking her son. I had nothing to do with it. He can't hear me. And I need to just let it go.

Here is what i am seeing at this point


you dont want to forgive him.... You dont really feel the forgivness.

but for some reason you think that forgiving him will make things better and or right with you and them.

Not at all. I want to because not forgiving is a very unhealthy place for me to be, mentally. My mother literally bore grudges for decades. She would say she wasn't, but she was she never let anything go. Ever.

I can't be that person.

Holding a grudge....and forgivness are very different things.

you do not have to forgive anyone anything ....and still let it go. All you need to do for yourself is come to grips with what happen. It is what it is..... over.... done....past..... move on.

Its just baggage that has the potential to poison your now and your future. Why still give him the power to hurt you?

here is your issue.... you dont forgive him. Fine... just let it go and move on.

 

[syrenn]

My sis and I fought a lot, and even up to her death in 2007 we hardly spoke to each other. Oh how I wished I had a sibling to fight with... Before it's too late, confirm your love and do not expect repayment of actions by yourself that are noble and of good gesture....

Honey I am really sorry for your loss? But my guess is, your sister was not a drunken sociopath. This isn't about anywhere in the realm of normal familial bonds. This is about literally dangerous people.

The price is too high.

If the price is to high.... why pay it?

 

[WelfareQueen]

I am currently working my way through some familial issues on a therapeutic front. I know "to err is human, to forgive divine" *even though I don't actually know where the saying is from*. And I grasp the concept of seventy-times-seven. What I'm having trouble with is part of that last bit. And I don't care if you are Christian, pagan, wiccan, atheist, I would just appreciate some feedback.

How do you forgive someone who doesn't want to be forgiven because they don't believe they did anything wrong. Essentially, I'm having trouble just letting go of them believing an untruth about me, no matter how many times we discuss the situation. Not only that, but they think I need to ask their forgiveness for something I didn't do.

The issue in question is several decades old but nobody has picked at the scar for some time now.

I've been praying, meditating - and pretty much posting here to avoid dealing with the fact that I can't seem to come to grips with this issue.

some things should never be forgiven.... simple as that. Just becasue they are family does not mean they GET or deserve to be forgiven.

you dont have to forgive someone to let go of it...... all you have to do is not let your past poison your present or future.

I think the goal is always forgiveness...no matter what the person has done. If you're unable to forgive just let go. Life from a mental health perspective is all about constant adjustment. If you cannot forgive...learn to let it go. Holding on to negative emotion has never benefited anyone.

 

[syrenn]

I am currently working my way through some familial issues on a therapeutic front. I know "to err is human, to forgive divine" *even though I don't actually know where the saying is from*. And I grasp the concept of seventy-times-seven. What I'm having trouble with is part of that last bit. And I don't care if you are Christian, pagan, wiccan, atheist, I would just appreciate some feedback.

How do you forgive someone who doesn't want to be forgiven because they don't believe they did anything wrong. Essentially, I'm having trouble just letting go of them believing an untruth about me, no matter how many times we discuss the situation. Not only that, but they think I need to ask their forgiveness for something I didn't do.

The issue in question is several decades old but nobody has picked at the scar for some time now.

I've been praying, meditating - and pretty much posting here to avoid dealing with the fact that I can't seem to come to grips with this issue.

some things should never be forgiven.... simple as that. Just becasue they are family does not mean they GET or deserve to be forgiven.

you dont have to forgive someone to let go of it...... all you have to do is not let your past poison your present or future.

I think the goal is always forgiveness...no matter what the person has done. If you're unable to forgive just let go. Life from a mental health perspective is all about constant adjustment. If you cannot forgive...learn to let it go. Holding on to negative emotion has never benefited anyone.

that is my point.... there is no need to forgive. If you cant, just let it go and move on.

forgiving is not the key to moving on....

 

[WelfareQueen]

some things should never be forgiven.... simple as that. Just becasue they are family does not mean they GET or deserve to be forgiven.

you dont have to forgive someone to let go of it...... all you have to do is not let your past poison your present or future.

I think the goal is always forgiveness...no matter what the person has done. If you're unable to forgive just let go. Life from a mental health perspective is all about constant adjustment. If you cannot forgive...learn to let it go. Holding on to negative emotion has never benefited anyone.

that is my point.... there is no need to forgive. If you cant, just let it go and move on.

forgiving is not the key to moving on....

Forgiveness is the most spiritually evolved position. I struggle with true forgiveness. But you're right....at minimum find a way to let it go. Boop needs to make her own decision whether or not she's in a place to forgive. It does sound like she's trying to let in go. Hopefully the work she is doing is helpful.