Francis Keys bridge hit by ship. Bridge collapses, mass casualty event.

[beagle9]

Well said

One also wonders why the vessel made it that far, and then the worst imagined happened that led to a perfect storm scenario ?

 

[eagle1462010]

One also wonders why the vessel made it that far, and then the worst imagined happened that led to a perfect storm scenario ?

Anything can happen in an engine room. Fuel pump trips. Energency trips hit, oveeheat, low oil pressure, bad governor, inrush current takes out main power.

We should know soon. Hopefully it had a black box installed.

 

[beagle9]

Anything can happen in an engine room. Fuel pump trips. Energency trips hit, oveeheat, low oil pressure, bad governor, inrush current takes out main power.

We should know soon. Hopefully it had a black box installed.

Kind of explains why tug guidance is needed until get pass vital infrastructure such as bridges and such.

 

[eagle1462010]

Kind of explains why tug guidance is needed until get pass vital infrastructure such as bridges and such.

Smart move, but wasnt a required move.

 

[beagle9]

Smart move, but wasnt a required move.

Maybe they'll think differently about that now.

 

[Donald H]

The current was maybe .5 kt, going in the same direction. So the main effect was to decrease the time available to react.

I mentioned prev, if the hook set, it would tend to make the ship swing around. Since it was already turned to stbd, it would continue that direction.

Wrong anchor.

The course deviation (imo) was caused by the loss of power. Most of the thrust from the propeller is axial flow, but there is also a CW centrifugal flow. RH rotation creates higher pressure on the port side and lower pressure on the stbd. side. That induces a turning force to port, which you will cancel with a little bit of RH rudder. When the propulsion is lost, this asymmetry goes away, and the rudder is locked in that slightly-to-the-right position until hydraulics are restored.

Ship is traveling 8 kts, course slowly deviates to the stbd.

Technical information that is mostly correct, but it can't be your knowledge because you've already made too many uninformed claims.

For the person actually making the claim that loss of power caused the second larger course correction to starboard:

It was a course change that was caused by the ship's helm. It was too large to be loss of power. The first smaller course deviation to Starboard would fit that description, as I've suggested several times.

 

[ColonelAngus]

If the Captain had “good intentions”, that is allthat matters.

Only motive, never results….LEFT WING WOKE CULT MANTRA.

 

[Donald H]

If the Captain had “good intentions”, that is allthat matters.

Only motive, never results….LEFT WING WOKE CULT MANTRA.

There were two American pilots there at the helm who were responsible. When you don't know what you're talking about, you just get in the way.

 

[para bellum]

Wrong anchor.

I didn't pick the anchor.

Technical information that is mostly correct, but it can't be your knowledge because you've already made too many uninformed claims.

Then tell us what claims you are contesting.

For the person actually making the claim that loss of power caused the second larger course correction to starboard:

It was a course change that was caused by the ship's helm. It was too large to be loss of power. The first smaller course deviation to Starboard would fit that description, as I've suggested several times.

All reports are that there was no helm. The second course correction you are claiming is not in evidence. The stern appeared to swing to port just before the collision, but the video is not enough evidence to draw a conclusion, and it looks very different in real time.

Some are speculating the anchor caught, some are speculating they got the engine running and put it full astern.

We don't know for sure, we have to wait for more information.

 

[beagle9]

If the Captain had “good intentions”, that is allthat matters.

Only motive, never results….LEFT WING WOKE CULT MANTRA.

Intent still needs investigated, but the sad thing is this, how would anyone want to be investigated by a Democrat government ?

 

[Donald H]

I didn't pick the anchor.

Then tell us what claims you are contesting.

All reports are that there was no helm. The second course correction you are claiming is not in evidence. The stern appeared to swing to port just before the collision, but the video is not enough evidence to draw a conclusion, and it looks very different in real time.

See moderator 'aye can't hear you' for his post that showed course made good.
When a ship changes course to starboard the stern moves to port.

Some are speculating the anchor caught, some are speculating they got the engine running and put it full astern.

We don't know for sure, we have to wait for more information.

The port anchor holding doesn't result in a course change to starboard.

 

[kyzr]

So Biden’s “expediter” will be able to throw the environmentalist’s law suits and motions out of court? I will believe that when I see it. They will file lawsuits over everything from the process of clearing the debris disturbing the bottom mud, to the new bridge disturbing the water flow. Birds will be affected, fish will be threatened, species no one has ever heard of will be threatened with extinction, dogs and cats will live together and the sun will rise in the west if the bridge is replaced.

Anything that slows the rebuilding of the FSK bridge will be tossed or ignored.
I saw it on I-35, and with the WTC rebuild.
Let them file. They will not have standing, or some other reason to toss their suit.

 

[tahuyaman]

I have not maritime knowledge, but the person who is making this statement, who is the President

of International Harbour Association does..... so that's why people are a bit confused

about the collapse of the bridge.


View attachment 924886

No power = no ability to maneuver.

The term “vessel not under command” means a vessel which through some exceptional circumstance is unable to maneuver and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel

 

[para bellum]

See moderator 'aye can't hear you' for his post that showed course made good.
When a ship changes course to starboard the stern moves to port.

Link the post, I am not going to hunt 60 pages of thread to support your contention.

The port anchor holding doesn't result in a course change to starboard.

You don't know when the anchor was dropped, and you don't know which side of the ship it was on when (if) it grabbed. The ship was crabbing due to the current, it is 1000 feet long, and it was still traveling forward. The anchor could have easily been behind and to the stbd. side by the time it set.

Now tell me the claim I made that you are saying is uninformed. I already corrected you on the other thread wrt the tides and currents "not being in synch". So far, you are the one making uninformed statements here...

 

[kyzr]

I-35? I thought that was I-40 that had a bridge collapse in Oklahoma. I think you are confused.

Minneapolis in 2007.
...But how Minnesota was able to rebuild the 35W bridge so quickly — in just over a year — offers hope to officials scrambling to reopen the Maryland bridge as quickly as possible.

MNDOT gave credit to the support received from the WH.

I-35W Mississippi River bridge - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Minneapolis I-35W bridge collapse offers lessons for swift Baltimore rebuild

Minnesota’s experience recovering from the I-35W bridge collapse in 2007 provides important lessons to guide officials in Maryland as they work to rebuild the Francis Scott Key Bridge.

www.mprnews.org

The I-35W bridge, a federal interstate highway that’s a major artery through Minneapolis, is a much busier thoroughfare, carrying about 140,000 vehicles a day. That compares to only about 31,000 daily crossings for the Maryland bridge.

 

[eagle1462010]

See moderator 'aye can't hear you' for his post that showed course made good.
When a ship changes course to starboard the stern moves to port.

The port anchor holding doesn't result in a course change to starboard.

How so when you are running over the anchor chain when it dropped

 

[Donald H]

Link the post, I am not going to hunt 60 pages of thread to support your contention.

Neither will I search for it. I can only ask him. (against my better judgment)

You don't know when the anchor was dropped,

No, I don't.

and you don't know which side of the ship it was on when (if) it grabbed.

It was claimed to be the port anchor.

The ship was crabbing due to the current,

Not if the current was .5 knots as is now claimed.

it is 1000 feet long, and it was still traveling forward. The anchor could have easily been behind and to the stbd. side by the time it set.

Very unlikely but possible.

Now tell me the claim I made that you are saying is uninformed. I already corrected you on the other thread wrt the tides and currents "not being in synch". So far, you are the one making uninformed statements here...

I'm not going to search your history either. You registered false information. We'll watch you going forward.

On what I've said: It's all true and unbiased.

'

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Again, I speak from experience. Driving vessels has been my occupation for forty years.

Sorry! You must have dementia. You could not be more wrong.

 

[AyeCantSeeYou]

Anything can happen in an engine room. Fuel pump trips. Energency trips hit, oveeheat, low oil pressure, bad governor, inrush current takes out main power.

We should know soon. Hopefully it had a black box installed.

There were 2 recorders on the ship. Info previously talked about:

Francis Keys bridge hit by ship. Bridge collapses, mass casualty event.

Do we Know that the engines never came back on? Is that confirmed by those on board . I would think emergency back up includes more than lights? Emergency generators usually supply electrical power to vital systems. It is obvious their system did not work as it went dark a second time.

www.usmessageboard.com

 

[Donald H]

How so when you are running over the anchor chain when it dropped

Don't be silly.

For our info, this one took 2 years to rebuild but half of it didn't collapse. A wild guess is that this bridge is going to take twice as long. 4 years?

Time Traveller: 19 die in 1958 Second Narrows Bridge collapse and ensuing rescue

The bridge was renamed Ironworkers Memorial Second Narrows Crossing in 1994, to honour all who lost their lives during its construction.

www.nsnews.com

MSN

A preliminary review, Muise said, revealed sensor data showing the ship’s speed and when alarms went off. Audio recorders captured the local pilot, aboard to guide the ship through the harbor and shipping channel, making steering commands and rudder orders. At about 1:25 a.m., mere minutes before the crash, several alarms went off, he said. “At the same time, VDR sensor data stopped recording.”

Muise said the audio continued recording, capturing the pilot’s orders to drop an anchor, reporting a loss of power, calling for tugboat assistance and giving a “mayday” signal. Officials have said the mayday helped prevent more casualties because police stationed on the bridge were able to close it to traffic.

Can you repost the pic showing the ship's course in closeup detail? It was on one of the first few pages.
The purpose would be to show two course changes which aren't evident on the others.