Francis Keys bridge hit by ship. Bridge collapses, mass casualty event.

[Ghost of a Rider]

God I can't stand posers.

So now you’re gonna go personal? Jesus Christ, it’s just shiphandling/maneuvering characteristics.

The ship was on course in the channel, the next turn was after the bridge. All it needed to do was maintain the direction it was already traveling.

Okay?

It was only a half mile to the bridge when it lost power. It was making 8 kts. Figure it out, "captain".

Figure what out? All I’ve said is that rudder effect is minimal without propulsion. So what’s your point?

Yeah, well you also say the rudder is pretty much useless when the propeller isn't turning, so your knowledge is already demonstrated lacking.

Wrong. I said it was minimal.

Ships in Puget Sound routinely use their bow thrusters to help them navigate turns so they don't have to slow down. They are going 10+ kts. If there is water in the tunnel, the thruster will push it out- it doesn't care how fast the ship is moving.

It’s not as simple as that. With foreward way on, with three knots or more, the effect of a bow thruster is reduced.

This is a giant rudder. For scale, that is a man standing next to the stern thruster.
View attachment 924918

The scale of the man is irrelevant. Is the rudder “giant” in the context of the ship size that it’s mounted on? No.

 

[eagle1462010]

Id say that guy is probably spot on. Total loss of power, emergency generators come on, restart main engine FULL Astern Dropping port anchor, caused the ship to turn to stbd.

That ship was temporarily a DEAD STICK. THRUSTERS NEED POWER. FUEL AND HYDRAULICS NEED POWER. So all this id have done this is BS if you are a DEAD STICK.

They had no time so they kicked out anchor refired engine and went FULL ASTERN but that made it worse, but it was too late anyway.

 

[eagle1462010]

NOAA Current Predictions - Current Predictions

Ebb Tide at time of accident was?? Ebb tide was at 189 degrees if im reading this right.

So what would be the time of turn taking into account the set and drift in this channel?

Ive had a little training on this so you sea dogs tell me this calculation?

 

[eagle1462010]

Chart 12281

So the current at 189 degrees would have pushed the ship to Stbd wih and Ebb Tide. The ship would have adjusted its turn to stbd later due to drift?

 

[eagle1462010]

Army Corps completes Baltimore’s Seagirt Loop Channel Study Report; identifies $64 million

2020, USACE, in partnership with MPA, launched the Seagirt Loop Channel Deepening Feasibility Study, which examined navigation efficiencies and transportation cost savings that could be gained by improving the Seagirt Loop Channel to better accommodate the ultra large container vessels, or “post-Panamax vessels”, calling at SMT. These vessels carry twice the cargo and require deeper water depths than the ships that were used to design the current access channels to the SMT.

Currently, ships calling on the Seagirt Marine Terminal must back out of the terminal using the Dundalk-Seagirt Access Channels. This maneuver causes delays for incoming ship traffic and creates unnecessary risk for groundings and collisions with other vessels.

If accepted, Congress could include proposed improvements in the next Water Resources Development Act. A separate appropriations legislation would have to also be passed to fund the construction of the recommended project.

The signed report can be found on the Baltimore District website at Seagirt Loop Channel.

 

[eagle1462010]

They didn't "turn" into the bridge support. The ship lost all power - total blackout - no steering, no rudder, no anything! They were at God's mercy! When you see the lights come back on at the last second, that is the emergency generator that runs emergency lights. The engines never came back on line. The ship drifted out of the channel when the the anchor was dropped (which is protocol in this situation). The person piloting the ship at the time was from the Baltimore port (required for all ships of foreign registration coming into or out of the port). This was a tragedy that no human had any control over. There is no conspiracy, no political involvement, no anything - just a freak accident caused from mechanical failure that no one could have controlled. The harbor pilot has over a decade of experience and reacted immediately when the blackout happened. The crew did everything he told them. Any person that thinks they could have done a better job is just talking bullshit. They sent out a MAYDAY call immediately, telling the port that they were going to hit the bridge and they needed to stop all traffic across it immediately. There's info shared locally that many of you haven't heard or seen, probably for the best, since people will try to twist words, take things out of context, and continue to spread rumors and conspiracies instead of the truth.

Well said

 

[Captain Caveman]

Perhaps. But we’re talking about a 958 foot long ship of over 95,000 gross tons.

This accident is probably a good indicator that some ships are just too big, and thus hazardous

 

[ColonelAngus]

Biden claimed he commutted over this bridge via train many times.

THE BRIDGE HAS NO TRAIN TRACKS!

WHEN THE FUCK ARE WE GOING TO TAKE THE REMOTE CONTROL AWAY FROM GRANDPA?

 

[para bellum]

NOAA Current Predictions - Current Predictions

Ebb Tide at time of accident was?? Ebb tide was at 189 degrees if im reading this right.

So what would be the time of turn taking into account the set and drift in this channel?

Ive had a little training on this so you sea dogs tell me this calculation?

This current station is a little closer:

NOAA Current Predictions - Current Predictions

NOAA Current Predictions

tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov

All 3 stations are outside the harbor where the river meets the Chesapeake. Inside the harbor I don't think he's making any correction- if he does it's minimal. The shipping channel and the current are going to be pretty dang close to the same direction. Maybe a little mixing from Curtis Bay, but I don't see anything significant- he was already on top of the bridge when he lost power.

 

[eagle1462010]

This current station is a little closer:

NOAA Current Predictions - Current Predictions

NOAA Current Predictions

tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov

All 3 stations are outside the harbor where the river meets the Chesapeake. Inside the harbor I don't think he's making any correction- if he does it's minimal. The shipping channel and the current are going to be pretty dang close to the same direction. Maybe a little mixing from Curtis Bay, but I don't see anything significant- he was already on top of the bridge when he lost power.

View attachment 924990

So current had no effect? From what else ive read now propulsion was not restored only emergency power. Leaving dropped port anchor and 8 knots headway.

One I read said the ship would run over the anchor causing the turn.

 

[AyeCantSeeYou]

When does that information get released or should it be ?

When the investigation is completed. See this post: Francis Keys bridge hit by ship. Bridge collapses, mass casualty event.

 

[AyeCantSeeYou]

Biden claimed he commutted over this bridge via train many times.

THE BRIDGE HAS NO TRAIN TRACKS!

WHEN THE FUCK ARE WE GOING TO TAKE THE REMOTE CONTROL AWAY FROM GRANDPA?

Yeah, he was confusing the Key Bridge in Baltimore with the one nextdoor in DC.

 

[Donald H]

As I told Admiral what’s-His-Name, I am a mariner and a captain and my experience goes back forty years. I know from experience that rudder effect is minimal without propulsion.

That's it! It's minimal.

 

[beagle9]

As I have said, I have driven fucking aircraft carriers with no engines, based on momentum alone. The fact you don't understand that after several people have tried to explain it to you is indicative of an extremely low IQ. I don't really want to insult you, but the facts are clear! You are simply fucking stupid!

One of the fastest ways to stop a ship's momentum is to shift the rudder from hard left to right and back again, repeatedly. It acts like a brake when the rudder is off centerline because of the massive drag it puts on the ship!

Do you think that a rudder shift is what took place, otherwise that drove the ship into the bridge pillar ? Did the ship have power at the time of impact or before impact ? If no power, was the rudder system on line ? Did the anchor play a roll in the turn ? Explain the billowing black smoke after power came back. Was it from the stack ?

 

[beagle9]

What beach landing ships? We use landing craft, air cushioned now. LSTs are long gone!

OK, then landing craft..

 

[beagle9]

You could not be more wrong.

If taking evasive action in war, the ship has to be under full power to get maximum turn reaction on the rudders. Less power, the less maneuvers it can accomplish in a situation.

 

[beagle9]

The emergency diesel generators also use that same stack for exhaust.

We'll it needs to be reported as to what was in play then.

 

[para bellum]

So current had no effect? From what else ive read now propulsion was not restored only emergency power. Leaving dropped port anchor and 8 knots headway.

The current was maybe .5 kt, going in the same direction. So the main effect was to decrease the time available to react.

One I read said the ship would run over the anchor causing the turn.

I mentioned prev, if the hook set, it would tend to make the ship swing around. Since it was already turned to stbd, it would continue that direction.

The course deviation (imo) was caused by the loss of power. Most of the thrust from the propeller is axial flow, but there is also a CW centrifugal flow. RH rotation creates higher pressure on the port side and lower pressure on the stbd. side. That induces a turning force to port, which you will cancel with a little bit of RH rudder. When the propulsion is lost, this asymmetry goes away, and the rudder is locked in that slightly-to-the-right position until hydraulics are restored.

Ship is traveling 8 kts, course slowly deviates to the stbd.

 

[beagle9]

Why do you need to know? Got any conspiracy theories to try and back up?

It's called transparency... The Democrat government should try it sometimes instead of lie about it.

 

[beagle9]

We call that fishtailing in sailboats. It’s a quick way to shed speed in an emergency.

Sail boats and 100,000 ton vessels have no comparisons.