Frozen wind turbines hamper Texas power output

[Batcat]

Well, they need it once every forty years or so, right? I guess we can forgive that.

But it is obvious that Global Warming causes global cooling so the windmills freezing up will happen far more frequently.

Fossil fuel power plants don’t freeze up nor do nukes.

 

[flacaltenn]

They're looking into tidal energy as well. The technology will improve. By chipping away at demand for carbon fuels by using renewable, clean energy where possible, everyone wins.,

Tidal energy is an enviro nightmare. As a conservationist, I'm appalled at the prospect of locating underwater cuisinarts to mince and dice marine life that will be located at EXTREMEMLY SENSITIVE enviromental areas like shorelines and tidal basins.

Have you ever SEEN THESE THINGS?? They did a test project in England. Essentially DAMMED a whole sensitive tidal basin and the only way in and out is through the blades... YOU LIKE THIS????

 

[OldLady]

The irony of this event is oh so delicious

Nearly half of Texas' installed wind power generation capacity has been offline because of frozen wind turbines in West Texas, according to Texas grid operators.

Wind farms across the state generate up to a combined 25,100 megawatts of energy. But unusually moist winter conditions in West Texas brought on by the weekend's freezing rain and historically low temperatures have iced many of those wind turbines to a halt.

Frozen wind turbines hamper Texas power output, state's electric grid operator says

Texas grid operators urge conservation as frozen wind turbines freeze up electric generation.

www.statesman.com

Where's the "irony"?

Check Weatherman2020's post on this earlier. He illustrated with helicopter spraying petrichemical deicer on the wind turbines to get rid of the ice so they could make green energy.

But seriously, is this a matter of ice on the blades?

One of our local radio stations has had a shitty signal lately which I strongly suspect is the effect of de-icers on the antenna not working. Ice will fuck up things that need to be smooth as it changes the shape. Anyone who subscribes to satellite TV probably knows this too. And of course in the case of a propeller it changes the whole weight and balance.

Wind turbine blades should have de-icers on them, at least if they're in a climate where ice is likely. And maybe they do but not in Texas.

When Maine had the Mother of all ice storms in 1998, very few people had generators; even most gas stations didn't, which was causing the electric crews called in to help to run out of gas. 3" of ice encased the state; transmission lines fell like a row of dominoes, electric was down for a week and a half. Most people around here have wells, so along with the misery of no lights, no heat, no tv, and living on devilled ham sandwiches, most people also had no running water. We tried melting buckets of snow to flush the toilet, but it was too damned cold in the house for it to melt. After that storm, a lot of people started investing in pellet stoves or generators and most gas stations now have enough backup to at least pump gas (and hopefully make coffee). They're not expecting anything like it for a hundred years. Maybe Texas, too, will start planning for the unforeseen. It seems like defrosters on the turbines should be standard, at any rate.

Very cool, I'm jealous. I love natural disasters, well at least the ones that involve power outages.

I have the same issue here. When the power goes out the first thing that comes to mind is: "You get ONE flush, make it count". Actually if there's a power outage it usually means the creek just across the way is swollen with water, so I'll take a bucket over there to refill the toilet tank. For drinking and cooking I have backup stored water to tide me over until if need be I can drive up the road to a local spring. Wood stove and/or propane camping stove for cooking. If it's arctic weather and the reefer is off I can just store food out in the car. That's why I like power outages -- it makes ya get creative. And if you live in a lighted area (I don't any more) you get to see stars.

your toilet runs on electricity???

LOL these townies. When you have a well, it requires an electric powered pump to bring it into your house, unless you're fortunate enough to hook up to artesian well.

 

[themirrorthief]

They're looking into tidal energy as well. The technology will improve. By chipping away at demand for carbon fuels by using renewable, clean energy where possible, everyone wins.,

people in texas are freezing, not winning

 

[themirrorthief]

The irony of this event is oh so delicious

Nearly half of Texas' installed wind power generation capacity has been offline because of frozen wind turbines in West Texas, according to Texas grid operators.

Wind farms across the state generate up to a combined 25,100 megawatts of energy. But unusually moist winter conditions in West Texas brought on by the weekend's freezing rain and historically low temperatures have iced many of those wind turbines to a halt.

Frozen wind turbines hamper Texas power output, state's electric grid operator says

Texas grid operators urge conservation as frozen wind turbines freeze up electric generation.

www.statesman.com

Where's the "irony"?

Check Weatherman2020's post on this earlier. He illustrated with helicopter spraying petrichemical deicer on the wind turbines to get rid of the ice so they could make green energy.

But seriously, is this a matter of ice on the blades?

One of our local radio stations has had a shitty signal lately which I strongly suspect is the effect of de-icers on the antenna not working. Ice will fuck up things that need to be smooth as it changes the shape. Anyone who subscribes to satellite TV probably knows this too. And of course in the case of a propeller it changes the whole weight and balance.

Wind turbine blades should have de-icers on them, at least if they're in a climate where ice is likely. And maybe they do but not in Texas.

When Maine had the Mother of all ice storms in 1998, very few people had generators; even most gas stations didn't, which was causing the electric crews called in to help to run out of gas. 3" of ice encased the state; transmission lines fell like a row of dominoes, electric was down for a week and a half. Most people around here have wells, so along with the misery of no lights, no heat, no tv, and living on devilled ham sandwiches, most people also had no running water. We tried melting buckets of snow to flush the toilet, but it was too damned cold in the house for it to melt. After that storm, a lot of people started investing in pellet stoves or generators and most gas stations now have enough backup to at least pump gas (and hopefully make coffee). They're not expecting anything like it for a hundred years. Maybe Texas, too, will start planning for the unforeseen. It seems like defrosters on the turbines should be standard, at any rate.

Very cool, I'm jealous. I love natural disasters, well at least the ones that involve power outages.

I have the same issue here. When the power goes out the first thing that comes to mind is: "You get ONE flush, make it count". Actually if there's a power outage it usually means the creek just across the way is swollen with water, so I'll take a bucket over there to refill the toilet tank. For drinking and cooking I have backup stored water to tide me over until if need be I can drive up the road to a local spring. Wood stove and/or propane camping stove for cooking. If it's arctic weather and the reefer is off I can just store food out in the car. That's why I like power outages -- it makes ya get creative. And if you live in a lighted area (I don't any more) you get to see stars.

your toilet runs on electricity???

LOL these townies. When you have a well, it requires an electric powered pump to bring it into your house, unless you're fortunate enough to hook up to artesian well.

all you need is a long chain and a bucket

 

[Leo123]

your toilet runs on electricity???

If you have a private well you typically need 220v to run the motor that runs the pump that pumps the water to your pressure tank. Without electricity you get 1 flush and then, no more water to flush. In the past I have filled up jugs of water to manually pour in the toilet to get the flush. Luckily, where I live, I can go out on the back forty to pee. #2 can be a bit dicey in the outback so I prefer to fill the toilet with water.........Sorry for the real, raw facts.

ok that makes sense,,

Sorry I edited that last remark out before you posted. It was not useful.

 

[ding]

Mother Nature defeats us all the time, one way or the other. This is just another one of her little love pats.

I think this goes to the question of reliability. Wind and solar are more susceptible to disruptions than the other technologies.

I don't. Lines going down during wind, snow and ice storms are a regular part of winter where it gets cold, no matter how it's generated.

Correct. Which is why moonglow's argument that icing is not unique to generating electricity is spurious.

As for the question of reliability - setting icing aside which has been a major world wide disruption of solar and wind this winter - wind and solar are inherently less reliable than traditional power generation technologies because neither is a 24/7/365 technology. They operate in the 50% or less utilization range the last I looked.

Don't they store it for slack times? Don't you think the technology will improve, just as all other technologies have done?

I don't believe they are storing it at the generation sites but I could be wrong. As for the icing I believe they already have a heat trace technology they can apply but it is expensive because they need to take the blades down to add the coating. I have no idea why they ever installed them without freeze protection in the first place. But they did and so did the Germans and they are considered the world's leader in wind. As for the inherent inefficiency of solar and wind (aka the wind not blowing and sun not shining) there's nothing they can do about that. To me these are technologies that should never be our primary source. Relying on these technologies for peak load seems to be a predictable surprise waiting to happen.

Is it being used for peak load? I didn't know that was the plan. It would be awesome if all renewable sources could be used that don't pollute our world further, though. They're looking into tidal energy, as well.
Posters who are pointing to wind power as a failure due to a once in a hundred year weather event is not sensible, though. Catastrophes happen. Mother Nature always wins.

That's my understanding of the plan. What part of no more fossil fuels am I not understanding?

Yes, catastrophes happen. That has nothing to do with poorly thought out aims which will result in predictable surprises and are knee jerk reactions to a problem we don't have.

I understand you are a Texan, so naturally you support your state's greatest natural resource, but it's fucking up the planet, ding.

Actually it's not. And you have no first hand understanding or knowledge of what you are talking about. You have blindly accepted this belief on the authority of others but have never really given it the study and consideration it deserves.

The reality is no other industry has done more to improve man's standard of living than the energy industry. If anything we should be producing more energy to raise the standard of living for others. How's that for your moral dilemma?

I have no moral dilemma. The coal and oil industry has fueled a tremendous improvement in our standard of living, yes. Now we can take some of our vastly improved understanding and apply it to technologies that are not so noxious to our planet.

The moral dilemma is that you would remove cheaper energy as an option for the poorer regions.

CO2 is not noxious. CO2 is a vital component of the carbon cycle that all life on the planet depends on. You have absolutely no basis for that statement other than to say you were told that. You can't give me any reason other than you say so. I on the other hand can go into exquisite detail on the earth's climate system and the role GHG play in the climate system. I understand science. I understand what drives our climate.

Good for you, ding. Too bad with all that exquisite knowledge, you came up with the wrong conclusions.

I will go one step further and say that you don't even know what the IPCC's findings even are. So you have no real understanding of what you have even been told to believe. Please tell me OldLady, what does the future hold? What will the sea level be in 2100? What will atmospheric CO2 be in 2100? What will the temperature be in 2100? Do you even know anything other than carbon bad? If not you are nothing more than the sheep in Animal Farm bleating two is bad, four is good. That is until you are told to believe four is good and two is good also. And then you'll be bleating that shit. You will believe whatever they tell you to believe because you can't be bothered to think for yourself.

 

[Leo123]

all you need is a long chain and a bucket

My well is over 200ft down in an aquifer.....I couldn't lift that chain in the first place!!! Lifting a 200ft column of water takes a lot of power and torque alone, never mind a 200 ft long chain!

 

[flacaltenn]

A helicopter running on fossil fuel spraying a chemical made from fossil fuels onto a wind turbine made with fossils fuels during an ice storm is awesome.

View attachment 457666

Frozen wind turbines hamper Texas power output, state's electric grid operator says

Texas grid operators urge conservation as frozen wind turbines freeze up electric generation.

www.statesman.com

Oh Brother!! Talk about irony!! They're probably spraying some kind of fossil-fuel treatment too. Water would not cut it.

It's de-icing fluid. Probably antifreeze. Saw a vid on news tonight of using drones to spray them clean. What they NEED are blade heaters. Yeah, that's a lot of metal in sub-zero windchill, but the energy would only be needed a few days a year. So this COULD BE FIXED as some incremental cost to initial cost to the rig and maintenance and production efficiency..

Reminds me of when, I think Michigan -- started to replace their traffic lights with "low power" LEDs. First bad winter they totally iced up and filled with snow.. Because it was the waste heat from the older bulbs that prevented that in the winter time..

So they had to replace all of them or retrofit. Dont KNOW if the heaters have to run all year or they can be switched on manually at each intersection or by internet.

 

[OldLady]

Well, they need it once every forty years or so, right? I guess we can forgive that.

What alternatives do you THINK are actual alternatives? Wind and solar are SUPPLEMENTS, never alternatives. Because they cannot be RELIED ON for grid power. Solar is only good for 6 to 8 hours a day depending on lattitude, clouds, precip, and ICE and snow ALSO !!!...

And wind is so entirely flaky, it cannot be scheduled for contracts at all.. Often functionally GONE for 2 or 4 a week or in the dead of night.

THESE are your "Green alternatives".. To quote James Hansen, the godfather of Global Warming, --

"If you think you're gonna fix GWarming with just wind and solar -- you probably believe in the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny",.

YOUR PARTY is apparently a bunch of Tooth Fairy believers. Who SEEM to want to kill off more of the population by BANNING OUR STABLE GRID GENERATION -- before they find a better replacement for than the Tooth Fairy...

I don't think we should do that and I doubt if anyone is advocating it. You don't have to be insulting about it, either. I'm not a Democrat. I don't have a party. What is wrong with you lately?

I'm peeved that science and engineering have been politicized and so many folks have been entirely propagandized.. And scared SHITLESS that mental midgets like Bernie, AOC, and our GWarming Czar Ketchup Kerry are gonna be deconstructing our energy policy.

When you say "no one is advocating this" you're being entirely dishonest. I haven't changed. The question really is -- What is wrong with YOU lately?

There is nothing wrong with me. I haven't changed. And I'm certainly not being dishonest. If there are current plans to make renewable energy our primary source, please share. I know about the big goals of the green energy thingy; it's always nice to have a goal, but it's a bunch of words, like all those meaningless mission statements folks have these days for every org.

Renewable energy, in my understanding, still being in its infancy, is not expected to take over anytime soon as the only power sources we have. If I'm wrong, link me.

 

[progressive hunter]

Well, they need it once every forty years or so, right? I guess we can forgive that.

What alternatives do you THINK are actual alternatives? Wind and solar are SUPPLEMENTS, never alternatives. Because they cannot be RELIED ON for grid power. Solar is only good for 6 to 8 hours a day depending on lattitude, clouds, precip, and ICE and snow ALSO !!!...

And wind is so entirely flaky, it cannot be scheduled for contracts at all.. Often functionally GONE for 2 or 4 a week or in the dead of night.

THESE are your "Green alternatives".. To quote James Hansen, the godfather of Global Warming, --

"If you think you're gonna fix GWarming with just wind and solar -- you probably believe in the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny",.

YOUR PARTY is apparently a bunch of Tooth Fairy believers. Who SEEM to want to kill off more of the population by BANNING OUR STABLE GRID GENERATION -- before they find a better replacement for than the Tooth Fairy...

I don't think we should do that and I doubt if anyone is advocating it. You don't have to be insulting about it, either. I'm not a Democrat. I don't have a party. What is wrong with you lately?

I'm peeved that science and engineering have been politicized and so many folks have been entirely propagandized.. And scared SHITLESS that mental midgets like Bernie, AOC, and our GWarming Czar Ketchup Kerry are gonna be deconstructing our energy policy.

When you say "no one is advocating this" you're being entirely dishonest. I haven't changed. The question really is -- What is wrong with YOU lately?

There is nothing wrong with me. I haven't changed. And I'm certainly not being dishonest. If there are current plans to make renewable energy our primary source, please share. I know about the big goals of the green energy thingy; it's always nice to have a goal, but it's a bunch of words, like all those meaningless mission statements folks have these days for every org.

Renewable energy, in my understanding, still being in its infancy, is not expected to take over anytime soon as the only power sources we have. If I'm wrong, link me.

theres a lot wrong with you if you didnt know their plan to switch us to green energy,, '
FFS they are openly saying it while shutting down all the others

 

[OldLady]

Well, they need it once every forty years or so, right? I guess we can forgive that.

But it is obvious that Global Warming causes global cooling so the windmills freezing up will happen far more frequently.

Fossil fuel power plants don’t freeze up nor do nukes.

If we can build safe nuclear power plants, I have nothing against them. I was reading that they are coming up with ways to manage the radioactive waste that are much improved, too.

I actually cried when I learned that we were taking it and burying it deep in the Earth. In our Mother. We've only got one, folks.

 

[OldLady]

Well, they need it once every forty years or so, right? I guess we can forgive that.

What alternatives do you THINK are actual alternatives? Wind and solar are SUPPLEMENTS, never alternatives. Because they cannot be RELIED ON for grid power. Solar is only good for 6 to 8 hours a day depending on lattitude, clouds, precip, and ICE and snow ALSO !!!...

And wind is so entirely flaky, it cannot be scheduled for contracts at all.. Often functionally GONE for 2 or 4 a week or in the dead of night.

THESE are your "Green alternatives".. To quote James Hansen, the godfather of Global Warming, --

"If you think you're gonna fix GWarming with just wind and solar -- you probably believe in the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny",.

YOUR PARTY is apparently a bunch of Tooth Fairy believers. Who SEEM to want to kill off more of the population by BANNING OUR STABLE GRID GENERATION -- before they find a better replacement for than the Tooth Fairy...

I don't think we should do that and I doubt if anyone is advocating it. You don't have to be insulting about it, either. I'm not a Democrat. I don't have a party. What is wrong with you lately?

I'm peeved that science and engineering have been politicized and so many folks have been entirely propagandized.. And scared SHITLESS that mental midgets like Bernie, AOC, and our GWarming Czar Ketchup Kerry are gonna be deconstructing our energy policy.

When you say "no one is advocating this" you're being entirely dishonest. I haven't changed. The question really is -- What is wrong with YOU lately?

There is nothing wrong with me. I haven't changed. And I'm certainly not being dishonest. If there are current plans to make renewable energy our primary source, please share. I know about the big goals of the green energy thingy; it's always nice to have a goal, but it's a bunch of words, like all those meaningless mission statements folks have these days for every org.

Renewable energy, in my understanding, still being in its infancy, is not expected to take over anytime soon as the only power sources we have. If I'm wrong, link me.

theres a lot wrong with you if you didnt know their plan to switch us to green energy,, '
FFS they are openly saying it while shutting down all the others

What have they shut down?

 

[progressive hunter]

Well, they need it once every forty years or so, right? I guess we can forgive that.

What alternatives do you THINK are actual alternatives? Wind and solar are SUPPLEMENTS, never alternatives. Because they cannot be RELIED ON for grid power. Solar is only good for 6 to 8 hours a day depending on lattitude, clouds, precip, and ICE and snow ALSO !!!...

And wind is so entirely flaky, it cannot be scheduled for contracts at all.. Often functionally GONE for 2 or 4 a week or in the dead of night.

THESE are your "Green alternatives".. To quote James Hansen, the godfather of Global Warming, --

"If you think you're gonna fix GWarming with just wind and solar -- you probably believe in the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny",.

YOUR PARTY is apparently a bunch of Tooth Fairy believers. Who SEEM to want to kill off more of the population by BANNING OUR STABLE GRID GENERATION -- before they find a better replacement for than the Tooth Fairy...

I don't think we should do that and I doubt if anyone is advocating it. You don't have to be insulting about it, either. I'm not a Democrat. I don't have a party. What is wrong with you lately?

I'm peeved that science and engineering have been politicized and so many folks have been entirely propagandized.. And scared SHITLESS that mental midgets like Bernie, AOC, and our GWarming Czar Ketchup Kerry are gonna be deconstructing our energy policy.

When you say "no one is advocating this" you're being entirely dishonest. I haven't changed. The question really is -- What is wrong with YOU lately?

There is nothing wrong with me. I haven't changed. And I'm certainly not being dishonest. If there are current plans to make renewable energy our primary source, please share. I know about the big goals of the green energy thingy; it's always nice to have a goal, but it's a bunch of words, like all those meaningless mission statements folks have these days for every org.

Renewable energy, in my understanding, still being in its infancy, is not expected to take over anytime soon as the only power sources we have. If I'm wrong, link me.

theres a lot wrong with you if you didnt know their plan to switch us to green energy,, '
FFS they are openly saying it while shutting down all the others

What have they shut down?

youre a special kind if ignorant,,,

 

[progressive hunter]

Well, they need it once every forty years or so, right? I guess we can forgive that.

But it is obvious that Global Warming causes global cooling so the windmills freezing up will happen far more frequently.

Fossil fuel power plants don’t freeze up nor do nukes.

If we can build safe nuclear power plants, I have nothing against them. I was reading that they are coming up with ways to manage the radioactive waste that are much improved, too.

I actually cried when I learned that we were taking it and burying it deep in the Earth. In our Mother. We've only got one, folks.

so you cried when you found out we were burying something we dug out of the ground,,

 

[Leo123]

A helicopter running on fossil fuel spraying a chemical made from fossil fuels onto a wind turbine made with fossils fuels during an ice storm is awesome.

View attachment 457666

Frozen wind turbines hamper Texas power output, state's electric grid operator says

Texas grid operators urge conservation as frozen wind turbines freeze up electric generation.

www.statesman.com

Oh Brother!! Talk about irony!! They're probably spraying some kind of fossil-fuel treatment too. Water would not cut it.

It's de-icing fluid. Probably antifreeze. Saw a vid on news tonight of using drones to spray them clean. What they NEED are blade heaters. Yeah, that's a lot of metal in sub-zero windchill, but the energy would only be needed a few days a year. So this COULD BE FIXED as some incremental cost to initial cost to the rig and maintenance and production efficiency..

Reminds me of when, I think Michigan -- started to replace their traffic lights with "low power" LEDs. First bad winter they totally iced up and filled with snow.. Because it was the waste heat from the older bulbs that prevented that in the winter time..

So they had to replace all of them or retrofit. Dont KNOW if the heaters have to run all year or they can be switched on manually at each intersection or by internet.

Yeah, ethylene glycol, propylene glycol, etc. Those substances have to be distilled and distillation takes......energy. Typically provided by fossil fuel heat. Windmills cannot produce enough energy because they are not able to be installed in density, they don't produce without without wind and, as we have seen, freeze up causing the use of fossil fuel energy to free them up. That is IF the wind is blowing.

That is interesting about the LED traffic lights. I can see how that would happen. Hey is there such a thing as an infra red LED? You could make a fortune on that!! LOL

 

[OldLady]

Mother Nature defeats us all the time, one way or the other. This is just another one of her little love pats.

I think this goes to the question of reliability. Wind and solar are more susceptible to disruptions than the other technologies.

I don't. Lines going down during wind, snow and ice storms are a regular part of winter where it gets cold, no matter how it's generated.

Correct. Which is why moonglow's argument that icing is not unique to generating electricity is spurious.

As for the question of reliability - setting icing aside which has been a major world wide disruption of solar and wind this winter - wind and solar are inherently less reliable than traditional power generation technologies because neither is a 24/7/365 technology. They operate in the 50% or less utilization range the last I looked.

Don't they store it for slack times? Don't you think the technology will improve, just as all other technologies have done?

I don't believe they are storing it at the generation sites but I could be wrong. As for the icing I believe they already have a heat trace technology they can apply but it is expensive because they need to take the blades down to add the coating. I have no idea why they ever installed them without freeze protection in the first place. But they did and so did the Germans and they are considered the world's leader in wind. As for the inherent inefficiency of solar and wind (aka the wind not blowing and sun not shining) there's nothing they can do about that. To me these are technologies that should never be our primary source. Relying on these technologies for peak load seems to be a predictable surprise waiting to happen.

Is it being used for peak load? I didn't know that was the plan. It would be awesome if all renewable sources could be used that don't pollute our world further, though. They're looking into tidal energy, as well.
Posters who are pointing to wind power as a failure due to a once in a hundred year weather event is not sensible, though. Catastrophes happen. Mother Nature always wins.

That's my understanding of the plan. What part of no more fossil fuels am I not understanding?

Yes, catastrophes happen. That has nothing to do with poorly thought out aims which will result in predictable surprises and are knee jerk reactions to a problem we don't have.

I understand you are a Texan, so naturally you support your state's greatest natural resource, but it's fucking up the planet, ding.

Actually it's not. And you have no first hand understanding or knowledge of what you are talking about. You have blindly accepted this belief on the authority of others but have never really given it the study and consideration it deserves.

The reality is no other industry has done more to improve man's standard of living than the energy industry. If anything we should be producing more energy to raise the standard of living for others. How's that for your moral dilemma?

I have no moral dilemma. The coal and oil industry has fueled a tremendous improvement in our standard of living, yes. Now we can take some of our vastly improved understanding and apply it to technologies that are not so noxious to our planet.

The moral dilemma is that you would remove cheaper energy as an option for the poorer regions.

CO2 is not noxious. CO2 is a vital component of the carbon cycle that all life on the planet depends on. You have absolutely no basis for that statement other than to say you were told that. You can't give me any reason other than you say so. I on the other hand can go into exquisite detail on the earth's climate system and the role GHG play in the climate system. I understand science. I understand what drives our climate.

Good for you, ding. Too bad with all that exquisite knowledge, you came up with the wrong conclusions.

I will go one step further and say that you don't even know what the IPCC's findings even are. So you have no real understanding of what you have even been told to believe. Please tell me OldLady, what does the future hold? What will the sea level be in 2100? What will atmospheric CO2 be in 2100? What will the temperature be in 2100? Do you even know anything other than carbon bad? If not you are nothing more than the sheep in Animal Farm bleating two is bad, four is good. That is until you are told to believe four is good and two is good also. And then you'll be bleating that shit. You will believe whatever they tell you to believe because you can't be bothered to think for yourself.

Okay, ding. I've been trying to stick to the topic here, but clearly that's not possible for you. I am always willing to learn, but all I'm getting from you and others is personal insults. So find someone else to argue with. I've had enough.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Mother Nature defeats us all the time, one way or the other. This is just another one of her little love pats.

I think this goes to the question of reliability. Wind and solar are more susceptible to disruptions than the other technologies.

I don't. Lines going down during wind, snow and ice storms are a regular part of winter where it gets cold, no matter how it's generated.

Correct. Which is why moonglow's argument that icing is not unique to generating electricity is spurious.

As for the question of reliability - setting icing aside which has been a major world wide disruption of solar and wind this winter - wind and solar are inherently less reliable than traditional power generation technologies because neither is a 24/7/365 technology. They operate in the 50% or less utilization range the last I looked.

Don't they store it for slack times? Don't you think the technology will improve, just as all other technologies have done?

Do you think there is some huge lake or warehouse where they store electricity until it is needed?

You are dumber than a box of hammers.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Mother Nature defeats us all the time, one way or the other. This is just another one of her little love pats.

I think this goes to the question of reliability. Wind and solar are more susceptible to disruptions than the other technologies.

I don't. Lines going down during wind, snow and ice storms are a regular part of winter where it gets cold, no matter how it's generated.

Correct. Which is why moonglow's argument that icing is not unique to generating electricity is spurious.

As for the question of reliability - setting icing aside which has been a major world wide disruption of solar and wind this winter - wind and solar are inherently less reliable than traditional power generation technologies because neither is a 24/7/365 technology. They operate in the 50% or less utilization range the last I looked.

Don't they store it for slack times? Don't you think the technology will improve, just as all other technologies have done?

I don't believe they are storing it at the generation sites but I could be wrong. As for the icing I believe they already have a heat trace technology they can apply but it is expensive because they need to take the blades down to add the coating. I have no idea why they ever installed them without freeze protection in the first place. But they did and so did the Germans and they are considered the world's leader in wind. As for the inherent inefficiency of solar and wind (aka the wind not blowing and sun not shining) there's nothing they can do about that. To me these are technologies that should never be our primary source. Relying on these technologies for peak load seems to be a predictable surprise waiting to happen.

Another one who is dumber than a box of hammers! How do you "store" electricity?

 

[EvilCat Breath]

The irony of this event is oh so delicious

Nearly half of Texas' installed wind power generation capacity has been offline because of frozen wind turbines in West Texas, according to Texas grid operators.

Wind farms across the state generate up to a combined 25,100 megawatts of energy. But unusually moist winter conditions in West Texas brought on by the weekend's freezing rain and historically low temperatures have iced many of those wind turbines to a halt.

Frozen wind turbines hamper Texas power output, state's electric grid operator says

Texas grid operators urge conservation as frozen wind turbines freeze up electric generation.

www.statesman.com

They should have thought of the worst case scenario and yet they never do because then how else can they have an excuse to let people have no power during a cold snap the might rival 1899 cold snap...

No one ever thought of this worst case scenario because they deluded themselves into believing that there would be no cold snaps. If the temperature is going to be hot enough in nine years to kill all life on earth it would be too warm now for cold snaps.