Future of the demo party

[NightFox]

So what is the moderate wisdom here? What should be done Mac on such issues as:

1. Abortion
2. Border security
3. Health care

So sell me on a third party that will fix everything.

Let's try to avoid straw men, okay? I didn't say a third party would "fix everything".

What it might do, however, is (a) provide a place in which non-tribe members can exist, and (b) force the two "major" parties to come down from the trees and moderate a bit.

Regarding the issues, I addressed that question in post 616 here: CDZ - Is something broken here?
.

FYI: Mac there are already several moderate/centrist political parties in the U.S., if you believe that therein lies the answer to duopoly tribalism, pick one and good luck with that.
Some examples:
​

• Citizens Party of the United States
• Modern Whig Party
• Unity Party of America

There's also the Coffee Party of America which is more akin to a centrist "movement" like the Tea Party is for Conservatives.

Don't expect much in the way of electoral or political success from any of them, apparently forming new tribes isn't quite the anti-tribalism silver bullet that some people think it is; but I guess it makes people feel better to swim among others that express the same strongly held "views" that they have.

"The choice between political parties fractures our nations yet further, turns our focus on each other, and away from the mechanisms of our systems of government.” ― Haroutioun Bochnakian​

Well, I know they're out there, but I did use the word "viable".

.

What's your vision of "viable" ?

In short, a party that can win.
.

OIC, so you want a "party" that can accumulate enough political power to get a seat at the Washingtonian trough and sup with the big dogs?

Tell me, how is that any different than two major Tribes that we already have? I realize it serves your wishes but how does it serve mine? What great things could I expect if such a thing were to come to pass? Would it look something like just another tribe using government force to tell the people in my community how they should live, how much their Render unto Caesar tab is and what sort of commerce they can or cannot conduct?

 

[Mac1958]

Let's try to avoid straw men, okay? I didn't say a third party would "fix everything".

What it might do, however, is (a) provide a place in which non-tribe members can exist, and (b) force the two "major" parties to come down from the trees and moderate a bit.

Regarding the issues, I addressed that question in post 616 here: CDZ - Is something broken here?
.

FYI: Mac there are already several moderate/centrist political parties in the U.S., if you believe that therein lies the answer to duopoly tribalism, pick one and good luck with that.
Some examples:
​

• Citizens Party of the United States
• Modern Whig Party
• Unity Party of America

There's also the Coffee Party of America which is more akin to a centrist "movement" like the Tea Party is for Conservatives.

Don't expect much in the way of electoral or political success from any of them, apparently forming new tribes isn't quite the anti-tribalism silver bullet that some people think it is; but I guess it makes people feel better to swim among others that express the same strongly held "views" that they have.

"The choice between political parties fractures our nations yet further, turns our focus on each other, and away from the mechanisms of our systems of government.” ― Haroutioun Bochnakian​

Well, I know they're out there, but I did use the word "viable".

.

What's your vision of "viable" ?

In short, a party that can win.
.

OIC, so you want a "party" that can accumulate enough political power to get a seat at the Washingtonian trough and sup with the big dogs?

Tell me, how is that any different than two major Tribes that we already have? I realize it serves your wishes but how does it serve mine? What great things could I expect if such a thing were to come to pass? Would it look something like just another tribe using government force to tell the people in my community how they should live, how much their Render unto Caesar tab is and what sort of commerce they can or cannot conduct?

The theory is that a more moderate party would force the two insane "major" parties to come to their senses.

I don't claim to have the answers here, and I fully admit I don't understand politics and political behaviors.

But we're coming apart at the seams in real time, both politically and culturally.
.

 

[Cellblock2429]

Well, the GOP lost its freakin' mind with Trump, and now the opposite reaction is happening with the Dems.

Two crazed parties whose loons drown out moderate thought.

We desperately need a viable third party.
.

So what is the moderate wisdom here? What should be done Mac on such issues as:

1. Abortion
2. Border security
3. Health care

So sell me on a third party that will fix everything.

Let's try to avoid straw men, okay? I didn't say a third party would "fix everything".

What it might do, however, is (a) provide a place in which non-tribe members can exist, and (b) force the two "major" parties to come down from the trees and moderate a bit.

Regarding the issues, I addressed that question in post 616 here: CDZ - Is something broken here?
.

Your focus is on the party, as if the party has been corrupted and only need to be replaced with a righteous one.

But the way I see it, the system is the problem.

Our country was started with the Articles of Confederation. It was drafted by men who saw the evils of a centralized system they escaped in Europe, so they drafted a rule of law that gutted centralized control. The problem with it was, it so decentralized the system that they system could not hold together the states. The Articles simply did not fund the federal government enough as Washington aptly coined the problem, "No money"

So then they drafted the US Constitution to empower the Federal government a little more. This worked great until the turn of the Progressive era. It was then that Progressives saw the limitation of centralized control as "holding them back" so they then amended the Constitution. They did such things as let voters vote for Senators rather than states selecting them and they created the Federal Income tax, something that had been struck down as unconstitutional a decade prior, and they created their own bank with the Fed. All of these measures greatly enhanced the power of the US Federal government as we have spiraled downward ever since.

What we have now is a war mongering behemoth that generates the most concentrated amount of wealth in human history.

As we all know, power corrupts, so what are we to expect from this system? Do we really want to believe that a third party is the answer?

No, the answer is to decentralize the system, back to the way it used to be.

But alas, that is regressive, not progressive.

I reckon I should be ashamed.

Such a thing can only ultimately be accomplished through the vote, and so it's up to you and those who agree with you to provide the electorate with a clear and viable alternative.

The problem is, it really does appear that we've lost the capacity to use reason and clarity to convince anyone of anything. We've spent so much time attacking and screaming and not listening that those skills have atrophied.

Use it or lose it, I reckon.
.

There is only one legal method to fix it. It's called the Article V movement. States need to rise up and amend the Constitution themselves, apart from the Federal government. To this day, it has never been done before but there a number of states who have voted to join.

Such things as term limits for Congress and budgetary constraints can only be realized through this movement. After all, will Congress ever vote to limit the power of their purse or impose term limits on themselves?

Hell no.

/—-/ What makes you think Congress will comply? They’re supposed to pass a budget every year but learned how to kick the can down the road with continuing resolutions.

 

[Meathead]

Well, the GOP lost its freakin' mind with Trump, and now the opposite reaction is happening with the Dems.

Two crazed parties whose loons drown out moderate thought.

We desperately need a viable third party.
.

Trump has pretty much consolidated the GOP. The entertainment iis going to be with the loony left in the next couple of years.

 

[NightFox]

FYI: Mac there are already several moderate/centrist political parties in the U.S., if you believe that therein lies the answer to duopoly tribalism, pick one and good luck with that.
Some examples:
​

• Citizens Party of the United States
• Modern Whig Party
• Unity Party of America

There's also the Coffee Party of America which is more akin to a centrist "movement" like the Tea Party is for Conservatives.

Don't expect much in the way of electoral or political success from any of them, apparently forming new tribes isn't quite the anti-tribalism silver bullet that some people think it is; but I guess it makes people feel better to swim among others that express the same strongly held "views" that they have.

"The choice between political parties fractures our nations yet further, turns our focus on each other, and away from the mechanisms of our systems of government.” ― Haroutioun Bochnakian​

Well, I know they're out there, but I did use the word "viable".

.

What's your vision of "viable" ?

In short, a party that can win.
.

OIC, so you want a "party" that can accumulate enough political power to get a seat at the Washingtonian trough and sup with the big dogs?

Tell me, how is that any different than two major Tribes that we already have? I realize it serves your wishes but how does it serve mine? What great things could I expect if such a thing were to come to pass? Would it look something like just another tribe using government force to tell the people in my community how they should live, how much their Render unto Caesar tab is and what sort of commerce they can or cannot conduct?

The theory is that a more moderate party would force the two insane "major" parties to come to their senses.

Well, the state of the current crop of "more moderate parties" don't seem to support that theory and IMHO the major parties aren't "insane" they've managed to achieve their objective since as anyone that looks can clearly see between the two of them they control the entire show, which is the whole point of political parties in the first place.

I don't claim to have the answers here, and I fully admit I don't understand politics and political behaviors.

Then you're far, far wiser than most.

But we're coming apart at the seams in real time, both politically and culturally.
.

Yep I agree, could it be that people on one side of the country feel the need to impose their will down to the tiniest detail on communities on the opposite side of the country? They appear to think that their views are what's best for everybody else and thus feel the need to utilize the political system to impose it by force.

We seem to be in the final stages of Empire but at least the silk slippers are more comfortable than those old hobnailed boots.

"Every new increase in the vast imperial organism seemed to me an unsound growth, like a cancer or dropsical edema which would eventually cause our death." -- Marguerite Yourcenar, Memoirs of Hadrian

 

[Votto]

FYI: Mac there are already several moderate/centrist political parties in the U.S., if you believe that therein lies the answer to duopoly tribalism, pick one and good luck with that.
Some examples:
​

• Citizens Party of the United States
• Modern Whig Party
• Unity Party of America

There's also the Coffee Party of America which is more akin to a centrist "movement" like the Tea Party is for Conservatives.

Don't expect much in the way of electoral or political success from any of them, apparently forming new tribes isn't quite the anti-tribalism silver bullet that some people think it is; but I guess it makes people feel better to swim among others that express the same strongly held "views" that they have.

"The choice between political parties fractures our nations yet further, turns our focus on each other, and away from the mechanisms of our systems of government.” ― Haroutioun Bochnakian​

Well, I know they're out there, but I did use the word "viable".

.

What's your vision of "viable" ?

In short, a party that can win.
.

OIC, so you want a "party" that can accumulate enough political power to get a seat at the Washingtonian trough and sup with the big dogs?

Tell me, how is that any different than two major Tribes that we already have? I realize it serves your wishes but how does it serve mine? What great things could I expect if such a thing were to come to pass? Would it look something like just another tribe using government force to tell the people in my community how they should live, how much their Render unto Caesar tab is and what sort of commerce they can or cannot conduct?

The theory is that a more moderate party would force the two insane "major" parties to come to their senses.

I don't claim to have the answers here, and I fully admit I don't understand politics and political behaviors.

But we're coming apart at the seams in real time, both politically and culturally.
.

What makes the other two parties "insane"?

 

[Mac1958]

What makes the other two parties "insane"?

Atrophic cognitive myopia.

An acute and deteriorating mental tunnel vision that robs them of the ability see outside of their ideological vacuums or to think independently.
.

 

[Votto]

What makes the other two parties "insane"?

Atrophic cognitive myopia.

An acute and deteriorating mental tunnel vision that robs them of the ability see outside of their ideological vacuums or to think independently.
.

Like what? Give examples for both

 

[Mac1958]

What makes the other two parties "insane"?

Atrophic cognitive myopia.

An acute and deteriorating mental tunnel vision that robs them of the ability see outside of their ideological vacuums or to think independently.
.

Like what? Give examples for both

Ugh. I think I made it pretty clear. If you don't agree, that's fine.
.

 

[NightFox]

What makes the other two parties "insane"?

Atrophic cognitive myopia.

An acute and deteriorating tunnel vision that robs them of the ability see outside of their ideological vacuums or to think independently.
.

I think you're giving the bosses of the two major Crime Families too much credit, one suspects that they aren't really concerned with ideology, their primary concerns seem to revolve around the accumulation of power and wealth. What they profess as ideology and principle is nothing more than marketing verbiage designed to appeal to a target audience.

It's sad but our political system has turned from an experiment in popular sovereignty and the decentralization of authority into a Machiavelli worship festival.

"And if, to be sure, sometimes you need to conceal a fact with words, do it in such a way that it does not become known, or, if it does become known, that you have a ready and quick defense" -- Niccolo Machiavelli, The Prince

 

[Votto]

What makes the other two parties "insane"?

Atrophic cognitive myopia.

An acute and deteriorating mental tunnel vision that robs them of the ability see outside of their ideological vacuums or to think independently.
.

Like what? Give examples for both

Ugh. I think I made it pretty clear. If you don't agree, that's fine.
.

Not really, you just gave a bunch of generalities.

Both parties are essentially big government parties, with a slight variation in how money flows.

More than likely you take issue with the demagoguery. For example, the recent legislation by the Dims to "pay as you go" is a fraud. Neither party wants any type of budgetary restraint, so what is going on here? Problem is, Crazy Eyes Cortez is not smart enough to understand what is going on as she sees this as a threat to free everything programs, and she is correct.

What is going on here is, this is only presented because Trump is in office. They wish to choke out any money for him and his wall, then they will turn full circle and embrace the same fiscal insanity Trump has only x 100.

But does the GOP really want the wall? They had two years to do it and nothing.

No, you MUST separate the mindless rhetoric from what they really want. Both parties want pretty much the same things with small differences. This is why the GOP chose not to repeal and replace Obamacare.

 

[Aponi]

Probally the best thing would do away with political partys

 

[Votto]

What makes the other two parties "insane"?

Atrophic cognitive myopia.

An acute and deteriorating tunnel vision that robs them of the ability see outside of their ideological vacuums or to think independently.
.

I think you're giving the bosses of the two major Crime Families too much credit, one suspects that they aren't really concerned with ideology, their primary concerns seem to revolve around the accumulation of power and wealth. What they profess as ideology and principle is nothing more than marketing verbiage designed to appeal to a target audience.

It's sad but our political system has turned from an experiment in popular sovereignty and the decentralization of authority into a Machiavelli worship festival.

"And if, to be sure, sometimes you need to conceal a fact with words, do it in such a way that it does not become known, or, if it does become known, that you have a ready and quick defense" -- Niccolo Machiavelli, The Prince

To be fair, the Founding Fathers saw the end coming.

Sir, I agree to this Constitution with all its faults, if they are such; because I think a general Government necessary for us, and there is no form of Government but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered, and believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in Despotism, as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic Government, being incapable of any other.

Ben Franklin

 

[NightFox]

What makes the other two parties "insane"?

Atrophic cognitive myopia.

An acute and deteriorating tunnel vision that robs them of the ability see outside of their ideological vacuums or to think independently.
.

I think you're giving the bosses of the two major Crime Families too much credit, one suspects that they aren't really concerned with ideology, their primary concerns seem to revolve around the accumulation of power and wealth. What they profess as ideology and principle is nothing more than marketing verbiage designed to appeal to a target audience.

It's sad but our political system has turned from an experiment in popular sovereignty and the decentralization of authority into a Machiavelli worship festival.

"And if, to be sure, sometimes you need to conceal a fact with words, do it in such a way that it does not become known, or, if it does become known, that you have a ready and quick defense" -- Niccolo Machiavelli, The Prince

To be fair, the Founding Fathers saw the end coming.

I agree, they were well aware of the history of nations that came before them and weren't delusional enough to believe that the system they were creating was going to be eternal but then again that wasn't the problem they were trying to solve.

 

[Moonglow]

It will.take some time at least 2 decades but I see more and more radicals that are socialist neo nazi types like cortez and others taking control of the demo party.

They will convince the moron left and illehals that they will get it all for free and bankrupt America with taxes and debt

Cortez is a Nazi like you are a God.

 

[Aponi]

It will.take some time at least 2 decades but I see more and more radicals that are socialist neo nazi types like cortez and others taking control of the demo party.

They will convince the moron left and illehals that they will get it all for free and bankrupt America with taxes and debt

Cortez is a Nazi like you are a God.

I said she was a socalist neo nazi I forgot to add communist so you know

 

[Aponi]

The demo party and the nazi party had a lot in common

 

[Aponi]

It will.take some time at least 2 decades but I see more and more radicals that are socialist neo nazi types like cortez and others taking control of the demo party.

They will convince the moron left and illehals that they will get it all for free and bankrupt America with taxes and debt

Cortez is a Nazi like you are a God.

No need for you to pray to me because your screwed anyway