Gaza Freedom Flotilla Attacked, 2 killed 50 Injured - Israeli Murder and Piracy

[GHook93]

OK I will answer respectful!

If any boat tries to dock any country without permission, they are sure to get boarded and arrested. EVERY COUNTRY without exception. Upon boarding those ships, if the police are attacked, then they will be met with force. Interesting note: that all five other ships were boarded and none resisted and no incidents.

All "Free Gaza" boats are government inspected at the port of departure as requested by the movement to ensure there are no weapons. Israel knows this.

BTW, if Israel requested to inspect the cargo in international waters by unarmed inspectors, the request would probably be honored.

NO country would rely on other countries doing their inspections for them. NO COUNTRY. Nevertheless, after departure the Flortilla could have easily met up with another boat at sea and stocked it with arms, terrorist, missiles, bombs or anything!

Also no country in the WORLD would rely on 3rd parties for inspection.

You make unreasonable demands on Israel and pass them off as reasonable. You call for Israel's destruction and make it like your unbaised. Your a hack and a douche bag.

since my last post last night, this thread seems to have gone the way of most threads on volatile breaking stories on this board --- partisan squabbling rather than meticulous fact gathering, objective commentary and respectful, intelligent debate.

doesn't happen here much. in my quick reread, your posts look to be some of the only ones still containing any useful facts and you don't often fall out of the boat when your dander gets raised.

we don't agree on a whole lot but at least you communicate intelligently and respectfully with me. i appreciate that.

i'm starting to wonder about what tinmore's motivations are myself.

he posts articles that are useful and relevant and then doesn't actually comment on the events, but does get into that fuck you, fuck you back shit that disintegrates these discussions. when i ask him a question in a thread, i'd have to go back and look to see if he has ever answered.

as for what this thread is supposed to be about, this is beginning to look like benny and his thugs got sucker punched by this activist group.

a group of unarmed protesters provokes an armed response for the media effect --- right out of the anti-terrorism response recommendations that came out of the rand corporation in the 80's (one of the authors was brian jenkins, noted "security" consultant)

 

[P F Tinmore]

Shipping weapons would destroy their credibility and would remove them from the protection of innocent civilian status. They are advised by international law experts to ensure that they are completely legal. Anything else would destroy their mission.

You really do live in some polliannish bubble. Your naivety is astounding.

No his naivety is typical and expected. What if Israel did as P F Douche Bag demands? Then tomorrow hundred upon hundred of boats would be streaming into Gaza and without a doubt a good chunk of them would be armed with weapons, missiles, bombs, terrorists and probably WMDs! If Israel didn't do as they did, they they would be utterly incompetent and stupid!

Bowing to the left will get them nowhere. Those people won't approve of them no matter what they do. They will still call for their destruction, promote propaganda, ignore facts and well push double standards. I say Israel should say the hell with the left and ONLY do what is best for their country. They are Jews! They already lost the PR battle!

That is the brilliance of the Free Gaza movement. No matter what Israel does it will be wrong.

 

[tommywho70x]

OK I will answer respectful!

If any boat tries to dock any country without permission, they are sure to get boarded and arrested. EVERY COUNTRY without exception. Upon boarding those ships, if the police are attacked, then they will be met with force. Interesting note: that all five other ships were boarded and none resisted and no incidents.

NO country would rely on other countries doing their inspections for them. NO COUNTRY. Nevertheless, after departure the Flortilla could have easily met up with another boat at sea and stocked it with arms, terrorist, missiles, bombs or anything!

Also no country in the WORLD would rely on 3rd parties for inspection.

You make unreasonable demands on Israel and pass them off as reasonable. You call for Israel's destruction and make it like your unbaised. Your a hack and a douche bag.

since my last post last night, this thread seems to have gone the way of most threads on volatile breaking stories on this board --- partisan squabbling rather than meticulous fact gathering, objective commentary and respectful, intelligent debate.

doesn't happen here much. in my quick reread, your posts look to be some of the only ones still containing any useful facts and you don't often fall out of the boat when your dander gets raised.

we don't agree on a whole lot but at least you communicate intelligently and respectfully with me. i appreciate that.

i'm starting to wonder about what tinmore's motivations are myself.

he posts articles that are useful and relevant and then doesn't actually comment on the events, but does get into that fuck you, fuck you back shit that disintegrates these discussions. when i ask him a question in a thread, i'd have to go back and look to see if he has ever answered.

as for what this thread is supposed to be about, this is beginning to look like benny and his thugs got sucker punched by this activist group.

a group of unarmed protesters provokes an armed response for the media effect --- right out of the anti-terrorism response recommendations that came out of the rand corporation in the 80's (one of the authors was brian jenkins, noted "security" consultant)

you may have noticed a similar comment from me earlier in this discussion on that very point.

also thanks for that tidbit about the other boats, too. the way the partisan press of both sides distort stories like this to fit their own agendas, omitting little facts like that will spin the story.

my only unanswered question about the israeli action is whether what happened erupted when a standard issue, normal boarding went south because of the arabs resisting or if the boarding was planned with the intent of having something like that happen?

the reason i'm pushing on that is that AP put it on the wire describing it as a "pre-dawn commando raid". if nothing else, pre-dawn is an unusual hour for boarding a vessel that's been sitting in protected waters for days.

pre-dawn is the time to attack and catch your enemy sleeping.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Very interesting analysis for anyone who is genuinely interested in geopolitical implications of the incident.

Flotillas and the Wars of Public Opinion | STRATFOR

Not even close to a neutral view. You can see if from the lines below:

Gunfire ensued when Israeli naval personnel boarded one of the vessels, and a significant number of the passengers and crew on the ship were killed or wounded.

Conveniently left out:
(1) Warnings messages were given to the ship
(2) The passengers on the ship attacked the soldiers with blunt objects and knives!

So?

 

[Godboy]

Very interesting analysis for anyone who is genuinely interested in geopolitical implications of the incident.

Flotillas and the Wars of Public Opinion | STRATFOR

Not even close to a neutral view. You can see if from the lines below:

Gunfire ensued when Israeli naval personnel boarded one of the vessels, and a significant number of the passengers and crew on the ship were killed or wounded.

Conveniently left out:
(1) Warnings messages were given to the ship
(2) The passengers on the ship attacked the soldiers with blunt objects and knives!

So?

So... now clear thinking individuals wont feel bad for them. They obviously had it coming.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Not even close to a neutral view. You can see if from the lines below:



Conveniently left out:
(1) Warnings messages were given to the ship
(2) The passengers on the ship attacked the soldiers with blunt objects and knives!

So?

So... now clear thinking individuals wont feel bad for them. They obviously had it coming.

Do you mean the stupid goons who attacked the ship? No, I don't feel bad for them.

 

[Liability]

So?

So... now clear thinking individuals wont feel bad for them. They obviously had it coming.

Do you mean the stupid goons who attacked the ship? No, I don't feel bad for them.

Hey, imbecile. They DIDN'T "attack" any ship. They BOARDED the ship which is kind of the point when a nation-state sets up a blockade during time of war, you schmuck.

And they weren't the goons. The fuckers who attacked them were the goons. "Peace activists" my ass. They were agent provocateurs. And that some of them got killed is NOT unexpected. It's kind of what happens when you try to run a blockade and attack the boarding party. Fuck them. They got what they were literally begging for. And nobody should give a rat's patootie that they ended up dead.

 

[P F Tinmore]

So... now clear thinking individuals wont feel bad for them. They obviously had it coming.

Do you mean the stupid goons who attacked the ship? No, I don't feel bad for them.

Hey, imbecile. They DIDN'T "attack" any ship. They BOARDED the ship which is kind of the point when a nation-state sets up a blockade during time of war, you schmuck.

And they weren't the goons. The fuckers who attacked them were the goons. "Peace activists" my ass. They were agent provocateurs. And that some of them got killed is NOT unexpected. It's kind of what happens when you try to run a blockade and attack the boarding party. Fuck them. They got what they were literally begging for. And nobody should give a rat's patootie that they ended up dead.

OK, if you say so.

 

[Nik]

So... now clear thinking individuals wont feel bad for them. They obviously had it coming.

Do you mean the stupid goons who attacked the ship? No, I don't feel bad for them.

Hey, imbecile. They DIDN'T "attack" any ship. They BOARDED the ship which is kind of the point when a nation-state sets up a blockade during time of war, you schmuck.

And they weren't the goons. The fuckers who attacked them were the goons. "Peace activists" my ass. They were agent provocateurs. And that some of them got killed is NOT unexpected. It's kind of what happens when you try to run a blockade and attack the boarding party. Fuck them. They got what they were literally begging for. And nobody should give a rat's patootie that they ended up dead.

Actually there are statements out now that the Israelis threw tear gas on the boats before boarding them.

Oh. And yes, boarding is considered an attack. Its like saying "no officer...I wasn't trying to hijack his car...I just wanted to check it out...."

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

YouTube - Gaza Freedom Flotilla Attacked, 2 killed 50 Injured - Israeli Murder and Pirac/url]

Hey! How about some: Incoming perspective...?


[youtube]bU12KW-XyZE[/youtube]

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Because they have a legal right to board and inspect any ship entering their territorial waters. Every country with any territorial waters claims this right, and no one but an imbecile would try to claim Israel was legally in the wrong to do so.

Are you an imbecile?

They were in international waters and were not going to Israel.

I guess that shut him the fuck up.

not true.

Incoming perspective...


[youtube]bU12KW-XyZE[/youtube]

 

[tommywho70x]

having been there so many times when the police or military entered an otherwise peaceful assembly and wanted the people to either disperse or surrender a person or persons for arrest, i know that the safest and healthiest response --- no matter how wrong you think they may be --- is instant compliance with all orders.

resist and there will be mayhem. freeze or flee. and you can't always flee.

a helicopter is not the usual way an inspection party boards a vessel in international waters.
the israelis intended violence. that was an assault team and the boarding had nothing to do with the blockade.

the only question remaining in my mind is whether the freedom flotilla people resisted the israeli incursion intentionally as a publicity stunt to make israel look bad or was this a coincidence that occurred due to a failure in their non-violence training?

 

[P F Tinmore]

having been there so many times when the police or military entered an otherwise peaceful assembly and wanted the people to either disperse or surrender a person or persons for arrest, i know that the safest and healthiest response --- no matter how wrong you think they may be --- is instant compliance with all orders.

resist and there will be mayhem. freeze or flee. and you can't always flee.

a helicopter is not the usual way an inspection party boards a vessel in international waters.
the israelis intended violence. that was an assault team and the boarding had nothing to do with the blockade.

the only question remaining in my mind is whether the freedom flotilla people resisted the israeli incursion intentionally as a publicity stunt to make israel look bad or was this a coincidence that occurred due to a failure in their non-violence training?

The activists did not take the safest route, but what kind of a world would we live in if everyone rolled over for illegitimate authority?

 

[Godboy]

having been there so many times when the police or military entered an otherwise peaceful assembly and wanted the people to either disperse or surrender a person or persons for arrest, i know that the safest and healthiest response --- no matter how wrong you think they may be --- is instant compliance with all orders.

resist and there will be mayhem. freeze or flee. and you can't always flee.

a helicopter is not the usual way an inspection party boards a vessel in international waters.
the israelis intended violence. that was an assault team and the boarding had nothing to do with the blockade.

the only question remaining in my mind is whether the freedom flotilla people resisted the israeli incursion intentionally as a publicity stunt to make israel look bad or was this a coincidence that occurred due to a failure in their non-violence training?

The activists did not take the safest route, but what kind of a world would we live in if everyone rolled over for illegitimate authority?

I think you are confusing your personal opinions of how things should be, with reality. To anyone that matters, Israel is absolutely legitimate. I mean when the leader of Israel is personally invited to meet with the President of the United States, or speak at the United Nations or be a member of the United Nations, it doesnt get more legitimate than that.

 

[P F Tinmore]

having been there so many times when the police or military entered an otherwise peaceful assembly and wanted the people to either disperse or surrender a person or persons for arrest, i know that the safest and healthiest response --- no matter how wrong you think they may be --- is instant compliance with all orders.

resist and there will be mayhem. freeze or flee. and you can't always flee.

a helicopter is not the usual way an inspection party boards a vessel in international waters.
the israelis intended violence. that was an assault team and the boarding had nothing to do with the blockade.

the only question remaining in my mind is whether the freedom flotilla people resisted the israeli incursion intentionally as a publicity stunt to make israel look bad or was this a coincidence that occurred due to a failure in their non-violence training?

The activists did not take the safest route, but what kind of a world would we live in if everyone rolled over for illegitimate authority?

I think you are confusing your personal opinions of how things should be, with reality. To anyone that matters, Israel is absolutely legitimate. I mean when the leader of Israel is personally invited to meet with the President of the United States, or speak at the United Nations or be a member of the United Nations, it doesnt get more legitimate than that.

But what authority did he have over those civilians. Only what he self proclaims.

 

[Godboy]

The activists did not take the safest route, but what kind of a world would we live in if everyone rolled over for illegitimate authority?

I think you are confusing your personal opinions of how things should be, with reality. To anyone that matters, Israel is absolutely legitimate. I mean when the leader of Israel is personally invited to meet with the President of the United States, or speak at the United Nations or be a member of the United Nations, it doesnt get more legitimate than that.

But what authority did he have over those civilians. Only what hes self proclaims.

What authority do terrorists obey? If the answer is no one, then obviously Israel has to do what they have to in order to protect its citizens.

 

[P F Tinmore]

I think you are confusing your personal opinions of how things should be, with reality. To anyone that matters, Israel is absolutely legitimate. I mean when the leader of Israel is personally invited to meet with the President of the United States, or speak at the United Nations or be a member of the United Nations, it doesnt get more legitimate than that.

But what authority did he have over those civilians. Only what hes self proclaims.

What authority do terrorists obey? If the answer is no one, then obviously Israel has to do what they have to in order to protect its citizens.

And the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves from their occupiers.

 

[Godboy]

But what authority did he have over those civilians. Only what hes self proclaims.

What authority do terrorists obey? If the answer is no one, then obviously Israel has to do what they have to in order to protect its citizens.

And the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves from their occupiers.

They lost any moral high ground decades ago. They have the right to jack fucking shit now. Besides, you dont call the people attacking Israel with rockets "defenders". They should be thankful Israel even allows them to live in Gaza... i wouldnt.

 

[CMike]

It was an obvious set up.

 

[P F Tinmore]

What authority do terrorists obey? If the answer is no one, then obviously Israel has to do what they have to in order to protect its citizens.

And the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves from their occupiers.

They lost any moral high ground decades ago. They have the right to jack fucking shit now. Besides, you dont call the people attacking Israel with rockets "defenders". They should be thankful Israel even allows them to live in Gaza... i wouldnt.

Hamas has never attacked anyone outside of Palestine.