Gingrich: Palestinians an ‘invented’ people

[Vel]

It doesn't matter when it was "invented." The fact remains that the United States is an actual country with a government and well defined borders. The country of Palestine never existed. It's a fiction.

The state of Palestine does exist right now. The US government simply refused to recognize its existence.

How long do you think the "state of Palestine" would continue to exist if the U.S quit sending them money? Can they support themselves? Do they have a plan to take care of their citizens?

 

[Inthemiddle]

America actually exists. Palestine never has.

That's the bottom line.

No, that's a false line. It is absolutely false, it has been completely disproven in this thread. The bottom line is that you are willfully refusing to ignore the facts.

willfully refusing to ignore the facts

hmmm

LOL, good catch. It's been a long, tiring day, running off of very little sleep. Girlfriend totaled her car last night on her way home from work, so three hours of Zzz's it was for me. I should probably go to bed now. =P

 

[kaz]

It doesn't matter when it was "invented." The fact remains that the United States is an actual country with a government and well defined borders. The country of Palestine never existed. It's a fiction.

The state of Palestine does exist right now. The US government simply refused to recognize its existence.

The Arab countries mostly don't recognize Israel either. If they gave some love, maybe they'd get some.

Here's a question for you. Which country has killed more Palestinians, Jordan or Israel? OK, let's make it easier, which country has killed more Palestinians since 1948, Jordan or Israel? Here's another question, which country occupies more of the land that was Palestine, Jordan or Israel? Granted I said it was one question then I asked a bunch of them, but if it makes you feel any better, the answer to the questions are all the same.

Funny how Arabs killing Arabs is peachy keen. But Jews defending themselves from Arabs isn't....

 

[Jroc]

Irrelevant to my statement. These people (in the West Bank, anyway) are Jordanians who were abandoned by their state.

So let me get this straight....Palestinians, who have lived in an area that has been called Palestine since antiquity and have been called Palestinians for thousands of years, are not a real people, they are in fact Jordanians, even though Jordan did not exist as a region until about 90 years ago. That makes perfect sense. And by "perfect" I mean none.

Well. Let me set you straight.. Jordanians, Syrians Lebanese ECT are all the same people. they split up the land and they have their countries, and now the Jews have theirs. One more thing, if there were no Israel there would still be no "Palestine" the area would be split has it was, part of Jordan, part of Egypt, part of Syria. There would be no "Palestine" Get it? The Jews built Israel not the Arabs Israel exists and it will continue to exist. No matter what the Arabs and the Jews haters hope

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PwbkXLJ-eQ&][/"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PwbkXLJ-eQ&][/[/ame]

 

[theliq]

Gingrich appears to be regularly tossing out ideas (if we can use that term loosely) that he appears to know play well in the rightwing 'blogosphere', and thus he probably figures are good biscuits for the GOP base.

I am not a Gingrich supporter. Look into his death penalty for drug dealers legislation from1996. The man is off the wall. But if he is the nominee he is better than what we have now. Obama knows nothing about business and basic economics.

Neither do most politicians,but some do and its interesting how many aquired their wealth???

These Guys normally have Baggage and they sure ensure that their money sponsers for election,get handsomely repaid.

Gingrich,is pretty hopeless,the Repubs are just scouring a barrel of crap apples and if Newt and Mitt are the best they can find,well all does not bode well for America and Americans......these Guys are void of Ideas,Foresight or Motivation,apart from WHINGING like most conservatives.

NONE ARE PREPARED TO GRASP THE NETTLE,something at least Barack Obama has attempted to do.

They think by going backwards is the FUTURE for America,forgetting that the world is changing at a rapid rate,these old buggers minds are in an ancient epoch.say
to Newt and Mitt because if you think its hard now,the future could well bewith these two.tl

 

[theliq]

Irrelevant to my statement. These people (in the West Bank, anyway) are Jordanians who were abandoned by their state.

So let me get this straight....Palestinians, who have lived in an area that has been called Palestine since antiquity and have been called Palestinians for thousands of years, are not a real people, they are in fact Jordanians, even though Jordan did not exist as a region until about 90 years ago. That makes perfect sense. And by "perfect" I mean none.

Well. Let me set you straight.. Jordanians, Syrians Lebanese ECT are all the same people. they split up the land and they have their countries, and now the Jews have theirs. One more thing, if there were no Israel there would still be no "Palestine" the area would be split has it was, part of Jordan, part of Egypt, part of Syria. There would be no "Palestine" Get it? The Jews built Israel not the Arabs Israel exists and it will continue to exist. No matter what the Arabs and the Jews haters hope

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PwbkXLJ-eQ&][/"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PwbkXLJ-eQ&][/[/ame]

YOUR WHOLE THREAD IS GARBAGE,I've thrown it into the trash can,shame I could'nt fit YOU IN AT THE SAME TIME,tl

 

[Cecilie1200]

Who said anything about owning Kansans? Last time I checked, owning people was illegal in this country.

It was implied you your post which suggested that the United States owned Kansas.

Yeah, the state of Kansas, ie. the chunk of land designated on maps as the state of Kansas. Not the human beings residing on that chunk of land. There was nothing in what I said that in any way implied that the United States government owned human beings, unless the listener is deliberately being obtuse.

I actually doubt that Kansans would argue that the state of Kansas is legally US territory, subject to US jurisdiction.

You're just sidestepping the point. How do you think Kansans would respond to be ordered to give up their homes and their land? Do you think they'd take up arms? Do you think they'd just forget about it after a few years?

How would you react in a similar situation?

Unfortunately for you, we STILL are not talking about anything even remotely analogous to what happened with the creation of the nation of Israel, unless there's been a lot more fighting and bloodshed with Indians in Topeka lately than I'm aware of.

Furthermore, tossing all "Palestinians" out was not part of the plan, nor were they replacing them with people who had not previously lived in the region. And the plan called for BOTH the Israelis AND the "Palestinians" to have their own place, and it was the ARABS who rejected it, because they refused to agree to anything that allowed Jews to have their own nation.

So let me know if you come up with a ridiculous, harebrained analogy to propose that actually bears some resemblance to history. Meanwhile, the fact remains that government sovereignty is government sovereignty, and at that time, it belonged to the British.

 

[Cecilie1200]

"Israeli historian Tom Segev,... said the argument about the existence of the Palestinian people is a thing of the past.

"There is no intelligent person today who argues about the existence of the Palestinian people," Segev said.

"Nations are created gradually. I don't think the Palestinians are less of a nation than the Americans," he added.
Estrin reported from Jerusalem.


The Associated Press: Gingrich stands by "invented" people remark

When did "invented" become synonymous with "non-existent", and where was I when that revision of the dictionary came out?

 

[Cecilie1200]

That's true.

There aren't any "palestinians". They are Jordanians, Syrians and Egyptians for the most part. Yasser Arafat was Egyptian.

So the people that used to and still do live in palestine are.....??

You define Syrians as such because they live in syria, and jordanans as such because live in jordan, so what about the people that used to live in palestine?

They should just forget about that and go becomes syrians and jordanians, is what your saying??

Palestine predates WWII. It was a colonial mandate just like Jordan and Syria.

Syria and Jordan are nations. Palestine isn't, and never has been. Living in an actual nation conveys nationality. The nationality of "Palestinians" is that of whatever nation they reside in.

 

[del]

"Israeli historian Tom Segev,... said the argument about the existence of the Palestinian people is a thing of the past.

"There is no intelligent person today who argues about the existence of the Palestinian people," Segev said.

"Nations are created gradually. I don't think the Palestinians are less of a nation than the Americans," he added.
Estrin reported from Jerusalem.


The Associated Press: Gingrich stands by "invented" people remark

When did "invented" become synonymous with "non-existent", and where was I when that revision of the dictionary came out?

probably being a miserable bitch somewhere

actually, definitely being a miserable bitch somewhere

 

[Dr Grump]

The United States of America was invented in what? 1776? 1787? 5000 BC?

It doesn't matter when it was "invented." The fact remains that the United States is an actual country with a government and well defined borders. The country of Palestine never existed. It's a fiction.

There was no country called Israel until 1948..shrug....

Ignorant asshat...

 

[Inthemiddle]

It doesn't matter when it was "invented." The fact remains that the United States is an actual country with a government and well defined borders. The country of Palestine never existed. It's a fiction.

The state of Palestine does exist right now. The US government simply refused to recognize its existence.

How long do you think the "state of Palestine" would continue to exist if the U.S quit sending them money? Can they support themselves? Do they have a plan to take care of their citizens?

Longer than Israel would make it without US support.

 

[Inthemiddle]

Irrelevant to my statement. These people (in the West Bank, anyway) are Jordanians who were abandoned by their state.

So let me get this straight....Palestinians, who have lived in an area that has been called Palestine since antiquity and have been called Palestinians for thousands of years, are not a real people, they are in fact Jordanians, even though Jordan did not exist as a region until about 90 years ago. That makes perfect sense. And by "perfect" I mean none.

Well. Let me set you straight.. Jordanians, Syrians Lebanese ECT are all the same people. they split up the land and they have their countries, and now the Jews have theirs. One more thing, if there were no Israel there would still be no "Palestine" the area would be split has it was, part of Jordan, part of Egypt, part of Syria. There would be no "Palestine" Get it? The Jews built Israel not the Arabs Israel exists and it will continue to exist. No matter what the Arabs and the Jews haters hope

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PwbkXLJ-eQ&][/"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PwbkXLJ-eQ&][/[/ame]

1. Everything you've said here is fals. Saying that ask Arabs are the same people is like saying that the Dutch, Germans, Franks, Slavs, British, etc are all the same people.


2. Just because someone presents facts that interfere with racists views of people who have an irrational hatred for Palestinians does not mean they hate Israel.

 

[konradv]

That's true.

There aren't any "palestinians". They are Jordanians, Syrians and Egyptians for the most part. Yasser Arafat was Egyptian.

So the people that used to and still do live in palestine are.....??

You define Syrians as such because they live in syria, and jordanans as such because live in jordan, so what about the people that used to live in palestine?

They should just forget about that and go becomes syrians and jordanians, is what your saying??

Palestine predates WWII. It was a colonial mandate just like Jordan and Syria.

Syria and Jordan are nations. Palestine isn't, and never has been. Living in an actual nation conveys nationality. The nationality of "Palestinians" is that of whatever nation they reside in.

Don't be ridiculous. Jordan has less of a "national" history than Palestine. The mandates were created at the same time and while Palestine had periods of national identity, Jordan was a totally "de novo" state.

 

[bripat9643]

The United States of America was invented in what? 1776? 1787? 5000 BC?

It doesn't matter when it was "invented." The fact remains that the United States is an actual country with a government and well defined borders. The country of Palestine never existed. It's a fiction.

There was no country called Israel until 1948..shrug....

Ignorant asshat...

That's right, fuckstick, but after 1948 it was an actual country. "Palestine," on the other hand, was never an actual country. No one was ever a citizen of Palestine. No one ever received a passport from the country of Palestine.

 

[bripat9643]

Don't be ridiculous. Jordan has less of a "national" history than Palestine. The mandates were created at the same time and while Palestine had periods of national identity, Jordan was a totally "de novo" state.

What the fuck is "periods of national identity" supposed to mean? When was it an actual nation that could exclude the militaries of other nations from crossing it's borders?

 

[JimBowie1958]

The region has been documented as being called Palestine, and the people Palestinians, centuries before Roman occupation of the area.

PROVE IT.

Go read the Torah. It dates back to centuries before Roman Occupation of the area. Or, you can read Herodotus, circa 450 B.C.E. But I've already provided this link. Just goes to that you're not even paying attention, you're just repeating your unfounded claims.

Translation into modern terms and in modern English language we call the area Palestine.

That's where you're wrong. The Hebrew term is "Peleshet." And since I'm sure you'll make a similar argument about the translated text of Herodotus I'll point out now that the Greek term is "Palaistine."

The Romans named the place, and that is a simple fact.

No, it's simply an unfounded claim. I challenge you to provide evidence that the name is of Roman origin. Of course, you won't be able to. "Palestine" is not a Latin term, does not originate from Latin in any way. The Romans merely used the name the region already had to name its province in that area.

Where do you think the name comes from? When do you think it got that name?

The earliest documented forms of the name are Egyptian. The earliest origins are unknown. In any event, even if we accepted your false theory that the Romans named the region, that would still mean that the region has been named Palestine for thousands of years, and would destroy the argument that the Palestinians are an "invented" people.

So far all you;re doing is blowing smoke.

Actually I've been presenting factual information and providing sources. You're the one blowing smoke. The very idea that the Romans came up with the name is ludicrous. May as well be saying that the Germans came up with the name Canada.[/QUOTE]


'Palestine' was the name the Romans gave what was known prior to that as 'Judea', the Wikipedia link and quote I provided document that. Your response of 'go read the Torah' or 'go read Herodotus' is not a citation nor a rational response of any real value. Jesus, you apparently dont even know what documentation is or you're just too lazy to engage in honest discussion.

You have made one unwarranted assertion after another, so by this time it is apparent that you have no references to back up your ridiculous claims.

Newt was right, though I question the wisdom of saying it the way he did since there is/should be no doubt in anyones mind that TODAY the Palestinians are a legitimate people given the recent post 1948 events that distinguish them from the other Arab communities in the region.

 

[JimBowie1958]

1. Everything you've said here is fals. Saying that ask Arabs are the same people is like saying that the Dutch, Germans, Franks, Slavs, British, etc are all the same people.

No it is not. Arabs speak the same language, all have the same religion, the same ethnic origins, etc, while the Dutch, Germans, Franks, Slavs, British, etc do not.

Good greif, you are so frigging ignorant on this topic you dont even realize that 'British' is not an ethnic group as it includes the English, the Scots and the Welsh. 'British' simply means that they live or were born in Britain, lol.

2. Just because someone presents facts that interfere with racists views of people who have an irrational hatred for Palestinians does not mean they hate Israel.

I think most of the hatred is directed at the acts of terrorism the Palestinians continue to commit, though that is more led by Hamas today. I have met several Palestinians, one of whom was Christian, BTW, not Muslim and they were all well educated and polite. But they absolutely hate Jews and Isreal, though they tried to disguise it as opposition to Zionism. Anytime any subject came up about Jews they got a seriously negative attitude and tone if what they said was not in itself blatantly antiSemite.

 

[JimBowie1958]

The state of Palestine does exist right now. The US government simply refused to recognize its existence.

How long do you think the "state of Palestine" would continue to exist if the U.S quit sending them money? Can they support themselves? Do they have a plan to take care of their citizens?

Longer than Israel would make it without US support.

We give Isreal a lot of support, but, no, they have the capability to go it alone and have prepared to be able to do so.

With the way libtards keep abaondoning our allies when they get into office so they can give more tax money away to their political patrons, who can blame them for not having much confidence in our commitment? It is all soley based on the influence of the Jewish lobby, Western feelings of guilt for the Holocaust, and Evangelical belief that Isreal is a fullfillment of Biblical prophesy.

I think Obama would have left them in the ditch by now if he thought he could get re-elected after doing so. If he does get re-elected, Isreal I think will be effectively abandoned after being alienated from us in several contrived incidents. He has aleady set the tone for this by treating Netenyahu shamefully.

 

[Sallow]

1. Everything you've said here is fals. Saying that ask Arabs are the same people is like saying that the Dutch, Germans, Franks, Slavs, British, etc are all the same people.

No it is not. Arabs speak the same language, all have the same religion, the same ethnic origins, etc, while the Dutch, Germans, Franks, Slavs, British, etc do not.

Really now? Same religion? Same language?

Seriously?