God = Allah = Abba = father

[hortysir]

I hate to see someone's blind hatred and bigotry blind them to the truths that the Bible and Qur'an share.

Exodus 3:6
Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Genesis 32:9
And Jacob said, O God of my father Abraham, and God of my father Isaac, the LORD which saidst unto me, Return unto thy country, and to thy kindred, and I will deal well with thee

Acts 3:13
The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.


Mark 14:36
“Abba, Father,” he said, “everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.”

Romans 8:15
The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.”

Galatians 4:6
Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba, Father.”

Many missionaries branded so-called Muslim forms of worship and religious vocabulary as wrong, without knowing that virtually all quranic religious vocabulary, including the name “Allah,” and virtually all the forms of worship, except those specifically related to Muhammad, were used by Jews and/or Christians before they were used by Muslims.

Who was

Just sayin'

A wee bit further study may help you. All the difference that matters there.

Differences between the Bible and the Qur'an
Differences between the Bible and the Qur'an | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry


Comparison grid between Christianity and Islamic doctrine
Comparison grid between Christianity and Islamic doctrine | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry



.

I love you, Marie, and you know that.

Rather than saying "the Bible and Qur'an" it would have been more accurate to say "Muslims and Christians".


Apologies for being vague

 

[AmericanFirst]

Mohammad came up with his own god with completely opposite characteristics and called it the same god, does that make it the same god because Mohammad says it is?

Exactly what are these completely opposite characteristics you refer to?

A side by side comparison of Bible verses and Quran verses to make your point would be nice.

Wouldn't prove anything because mohammed took from the Bible and plagiarized it. Allah is satan, not even close to being a god.

 

[AmericanFirst]

Yes. But stupid people - of all faiths or of no faith - are welcome to whine about it.

Mohammad came up with his own god with completely opposite characteristics and called it the same god, does that make it the same god because Mohammad says it is?

So as people are screaming "ALLAH AKBAR" as they whack off the heads of Christians and Jews, do you think there might be an inconsistency?

If a Muslim decides to worship Jesus, do Muslims have a problem with that?

If a Christian starts saying Parise Allah in church do christians have a problem with that?

Yes!!!!

 

[Dragon]

Mohammad came up with his own god with completely opposite characteristics and called it the same god, does that make it the same god because Mohammad says it is?

Exactly what are these completely opposite characteristics you refer to?

A side by side comparison of Bible verses and Quran verses to make your point would be nice.

Wouldn't prove anything because mohammed took from the Bible and plagiarized it. Allah is satan, not even close to being a god.

There speaks someone so lost in dogma that the voice of God is completely silent.

 

[hortysir]

Ignore the divinity, or lack thereof, of either Jesus or Mohammad for the moment.

The divinity of Jesus Christ is one of the central points of Christianity, as is his oneness with the Father.

Trinity is not a universally accepted doctrine even in Christianity.

And that wasn't what he was saying.

He's saying that God the Father and Allah are both the God of Abraham and therefore one in the same. And to see that you have to set aside the misconception that Jesus is God the Father made flesh as God the Son.

Thank you, Vidi.

Though, personally, I would never set aside the teachings of my Christ Savior, I omitted mention of Him or Mohammad to simply talk about the God-Head.
He is the Father of Abraham, Isaac and Ishmael.
Wether one believes He is also the Father of Mohammad or Jesus wasn't pertinent to the basis of my OP.

 

[AmericanFirst]

Muslims and Christians and Jews all worship the god of Abraham do they not?

Yes. But stupid people - of all faiths or of no faith - are welcome to whine about it.

Islam traces their roots to Ishmael, the child rejected by God because Abraham and Sarah did not trust in Him.

Ummmmm how is the God of Abraham the same god as Allah again?

Isn't Ishmael the son from another besides Abrahams wife? Thought so. Ishmael is the result of deceipt perpetrated on Abraham.

 

[Dragon]

Yes. But stupid people - of all faiths or of no faith - are welcome to whine about it.

Islam traces their roots to Ishmael, the child rejected by God because Abraham and Sarah did not trust in Him.

Ummmmm how is the God of Abraham the same god as Allah again?

Isn't Ishmael the son from another besides Abrahams wife? Thought so. Ishmael is the result of deceipt perpetrated on Abraham.

While Abraham may have been deceived into marrying the woman he didn't want, in view of the fact that he kept having sex with her until she became pregnant I imagine he figured out who she was somewhere along the line.

In any case, once again, unless Gods are something people just make up, it's nonsensical to claim that Isaac and Ishmael worshiped different Gods just because they had different mothers.

 

[AmericanFirst]

The idea that you can discuss the God of Christianity while shoving aside Christ is a bit ludicrous.

Do Christians not believe that their God is also the God of the Jews?

If so, then He can be considered independently of Christ, and recognized as the same as the God of Muslims, too. Christians and Muslims simply have different ideas about how to go about worshiping God.

All ideas about God are metaphors anyway. There is no way to encompass infinity with the human mind. We cannot drink the ocean dry, but if we trust its buoyancy we can swim in it.

Religious ideas and practices are like a great wheel, where God is at the hub and the human mind at the edge. Each religion may be thought of as a spoke connecting the edge with the hub. At the edge, differences abound, but in the center, in the hub, in God, all are one. Those who emphasize the differences among religions instead of the One towards which they all point will remain on the edge, never reaching the center.

False!!!

 

[AmericanFirst]

Islam traces their roots to Ishmael, the child rejected by God because Abraham and Sarah did not trust in Him.

Ummmmm how is the God of Abraham the same god as Allah again?

Isn't Ishmael the son from another besides Abrahams wife? Thought so. Ishmael is the result of deceipt perpetrated on Abraham.

While Abraham may have been deceived into marrying the woman he didn't want, in view of the fact that he kept having sex with her until she became pregnant I imagine he figured out who she was somewhere along the line.

In any case, once again, unless Gods are something people just make up, it's nonsensical to claim that Isaac and Ishmael worshiped different Gods just because they had different mothers.

He was deceived in conceiving Ishmael, not marrying Sarah. Whew, you are persistent in your lies.

 

[Dragon]

Mohammad came up with his own god with completely opposite characteristics and called it the same god, does that make it the same god because Mohammad says it is?

So as people are screaming "ALLAH AKBAR" as they whack off the heads of Christians and Jews, do you think there might be an inconsistency?

If a Muslim decides to worship Jesus, do Muslims have a problem with that?

If a Christian starts saying Parise Allah in church do christians have a problem with that?

Yes!!!!

Arabic-speaking Christians say exactly that.

 

[AmericanFirst]

Exactly what are these completely opposite characteristics you refer to?

A side by side comparison of Bible verses and Quran verses to make your point would be nice.

Wouldn't prove anything because mohammed took from the Bible and plagiarized it. Allah is satan, not even close to being a god.

There speaks someone so lost in dogma that the voice of God is completely silent.

I am not lost in dogma, I am found in the truths of the one true God's word, the Bible. LIAR!!!!

 

[AmericanFirst]

If a Christian starts saying Parise Allah in church do christians have a problem with that?

Yes!!!!

Arabic-speaking Christians say exactly that.

Allah is an old arabic name for their moon god, he is not the same God of Jews and Christians.

 

[Dragon]

Wouldn't prove anything because mohammed took from the Bible and plagiarized it. Allah is satan, not even close to being a god.

There speaks someone so lost in dogma that the voice of God is completely silent.

I am not lost in dogma, I am found in the truths of the one true God's word, the Bible.

What you just said is, "I am not lost in dogma, I am lost in dogma."

The prosecution rests.

 

[Dragon]

Yes!!!!

Arabic-speaking Christians say exactly that.

Allah is an old arabic name for their moon god, he is not the same God of Jews and Christians.

Whatever deity Allah originally was in pre-Muslim pagan Arabic worship, his name has come to mean the one universal God of a monotheistic religion. (Certainly Muslims do not mean a moon god by that name today.) Other monotheistic religions, if they conduct their services in Arabic, use the same name.

 

[Vidi]

The divinity of Jesus Christ is one of the central points of Christianity, as is his oneness with the Father.

Trinity is not a universally accepted doctrine even in Christianity.

And that wasn't what he was saying.

He's saying that God the Father and Allah are both the God of Abraham and therefore one in the same. And to see that you have to set aside the misconception that Jesus is God the Father made flesh as God the Son.

The idea that you can discuss the God of Christianity while shoving aside Christ is a bit ludicrous.

The idea that you can have an intellectual discussion of the origins of each of the three abrahamic religions is anything but ludicrous. The simple fact is that Christianity is an offshoot religion from Judism. Judism and Islam both claim to have a single father, Abraham. Abraham had ONE God. Not Two. Not Three. Not four hundred. One. And the word for that God in Arabic is Allah.

In fact, the use of the word Allah isn't even exclusive to Islam.

The word Allah is also used by Arabic-speaking Eastern Catholic Christians, Maltese Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox Christians, and Mizrahi Jews

 

[Vidi]

Yes!!!!

Arabic-speaking Christians say exactly that.

Allah is an old arabic name for their moon god, he is not the same God of Jews and Christians.

And what was the ancient name for God the Father?

I'll give you some hints

MichaEL
RaphaEL
GabriEL

And yes he's the same God.

The Hebrew uses the PLURAL for Elohim. In Arabic, it become Al or Allah, which means deity, god.

Blindly following a religion without understanding it's origins and how it relates to other religions and even other denominations is just sad. There's so much more to God than what they taught you in Sunday school. Go learn about Him. The only thing you have to lose is the reward of knowing God more fully.

 

[Vidi]

Isn't Ishmael the son from another besides Abrahams wife? Thought so. Ishmael is the result of deceipt perpetrated on Abraham.

While Abraham may have been deceived into marrying the woman he didn't want, in view of the fact that he kept having sex with her until she became pregnant I imagine he figured out who she was somewhere along the line.

In any case, once again, unless Gods are something people just make up, it's nonsensical to claim that Isaac and Ishmael worshiped different Gods just because they had different mothers.

He was deceived in conceiving Ishmael, not marrying Sarah. Whew, you are persistent in your lies.

Wow, you're BOTH wrong. No one was deceived at all.

I posted the entire story in this thread and even posted the Bible verse so you could look it up yourselves and the BOTH of you are working from some mixed up misunderstood memory of the Biblical story.

Seriously, if you're going to argue a subject...publicly...at least double check your statements before you hit submit reply. This is like watch the Three Stooges only not funny.

 

[Big Fitz]

Islam traces their roots to Ishmael, the child rejected by God because Abraham and Sarah did not trust in Him.

Ummmmm how is the God of Abraham the same god as Allah again?

Isn't Ishmael the son from another besides Abrahams wife? Thought so. Ishmael is the result of deceipt perpetrated on Abraham.

While Abraham may have been deceived into marrying the woman he didn't want, in view of the fact that he kept having sex with her until she became pregnant I imagine he figured out who she was somewhere along the line.

In any case, once again, unless Gods are something people just make up, it's nonsensical to claim that Isaac and Ishmael worshiped different Gods just because they had different mothers.

He didn't marry Hagar. She was Sarai's serving girl who was forced by Sarai to be her surrogate mother. Although God did not curse her or Ishmael, His covenant was established through Abraham and Sarah through Issac and that lineage. Instead Hagar was sent away with Ishmael.

This still doesn't fix the small problem of Christ being God and Islam does not acknowledge Him as the Messiah. The Jews don't have to because God made them righteous and His Chosen People through the covenant (BTW, Jewish Lineage is passed down through MATRELINIAL, not PATRILINIAL means.) to Issac. Not all the children of Abraham. That is why Ishmael is separate.

Today, it seems the world is split between the two sons of Abraham.

 

[Vidi]

Isn't Ishmael the son from another besides Abrahams wife? Thought so. Ishmael is the result of deceipt perpetrated on Abraham.

While Abraham may have been deceived into marrying the woman he didn't want, in view of the fact that he kept having sex with her until she became pregnant I imagine he figured out who she was somewhere along the line.

In any case, once again, unless Gods are something people just make up, it's nonsensical to claim that Isaac and Ishmael worshiped different Gods just because they had different mothers.

He didn't marry Hagar. She was Sarai's serving girl who was forced by Sarai to be her surrogate mother. Although God did not curse her or Ishmael, His covenant was established through Abraham and Sarah through Issac and that lineage. Instead Hagar was sent away with Ishmael.

This still doesn't fix the small problem of Christ being God and Islam does not acknowledge Him as the Messiah. The Jews don't have to because God made them righteous and His Chosen People through the covenant (BTW, Jewish Lineage is passed down through MATRELINIAL, not PATRILINIAL means.) to Issac. Not all the children of Abraham. That is why Ishmael is separate.

Today, it seems the world is split between the two sons of Abraham.

That " small problem" you mentioned, is the Trinity doctrine, which not even all Christians agree on. And if Jesus is divine and therefore eternal, then there's the small problem of Christianity is now a polytheist religion.

If Jesus is God the Father, then there's the issue of Matthew 3:16-17

*16And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

*17And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Jesus isn't even the ONLY son of God!

Luke 3:38

Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

And 1 Corinthians 15:45-47 tells us Jesus was NOT eternal, always existing.

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual

The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven

God always existed, but Jesus did not.

 

[Sunni Man]

He didn't marry Hagar. She was Sarai's serving girl who was forced by Sarai to be her surrogate mother. Although God did not curse her or Ishmael, His covenant was established through Abraham and Sarah through Issac and that lineage. Instead Hagar was sent away with Ishmael.

That is incorrect.

Abraham did marry Hagar and it says so in the Bible.

Genesis 16:3 And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.