GOP voter disenfranchisement in Mississippi

[bendog]

So far 10 pages in republicans are for ID they just dont know why or what it will do. Will it prevent something? Yes it will prevent people from voting.

And thats why they want it. Unless on page 10 they come up with a reason all of a sudden

Stop making up lies. 1) I'm not republican. 2) I provided a reason. You provide ID to provide proof of identification.

Proof of identification is used to prove you are who you say you are. If you don't have identification that does not mean you are not who you say you are, it simply means you don't have proof. People lie and cheat all the time every day. Lying and cheating is typically done when someone is likely to benefit from the act, and even more so when under peer pressure. Irregardless, the reason we require proof of identification is to discourage the crime. Fake IDs are easy to make, why do kids get em? So they can buy booze. Fake votes are easy to make, why would people do it? So their side will win.

Is voter fraud rampant? Who knows, we don't do anything to stop it, investigate it, or curb it.

Usually a law is created when a problem exists. You are saying we should make laws even when there is no problem and impose requirements for the non existent problem too?

And the reason thousands (or millions) have to go out and abide by this new law is because you want them too?

Well, see, that's the thing, and the reason I started the thread. If someone wants to say to me that "I don't believe stupid lazy people should be able to vote in order to force me to pay more taxes to give them shite," I can respect that. In fact, I'm at least in part in agreement with that.

But when someone says "I'm for voter ID because all these folks are voting three, four, six times in a single election," I call bullshit.

And it's not only bullshit because there's no real proof that such voter fraud is significant enough to actually flip an election, but it ignores the fact that the gop is purging voter rolls, and in Fla they possibly did flip an election by illegally purging rolls based on race. I'm going into labor over this, because JFK most likely stole an election, and LBJ and Daley made their bones cheating. But, call a spade a damn spade ... or man up about it

 

[RKMBrown]

that is simply not correct. The only justification for voter ID was fraud. If I show up at the wrong precint and say "I'm bendog" they say, "you are not on the roll, where do you live" I say I live in my backyard doghose. They say go to X precint you dumb mutt.

The law is no doubt constitutional. There is some degree of fraud. However, there also is no argument that MOST fraud is/was with absentee ballots. Nevertheless, there is no legal requirement that a law be the absolutely best way to eliminate fraud. If it arguably eliminates some, then it's ok, so long as there isn't a less intrusive way to get at the exact same fraud. Still, if you are contending voter ID is about something OTHER than suppressing the vote of the lazy and stupid, you are being disingenuous. If it was really about fraud, they'd go after the absentees.

Again, the busload of mentally impaired people showing up to vote. No doubt their caretakers told them who to vote for, and it wasn't the small govt party, but then again those individuals had a valid interest in getting more taxpayer services. The question comes down to whether you support the lazy and stupid voting that you have to provide them with govt services.

You have to have proof of identification to register to vote, providing your proof of identification again when you vote merely ensures that you vote won't be used in your absence. It is a courtesy to the voter that his vote won't be stolen by criminals. No different than requiring identification when someone writes a check against your bank account.

You anti-ID folks are being re-ridiculous. Don't like ID? Fine make it signature based. Scan the signature used during voter registration where you proved your proof of identification, then compare that to the signature used to vote.

I don't know that's true everywhere that you need ID to register

Federal law requires you to show proof of identification the first time you register to vote, or at the time of voting the first time you register to vote. US Code - Subchapter I-H: NATIONAL VOTER REGISTRATION and here 42 U.S.C. § 1973gg-7 : US Code - Section 1973GG-7: Federal coordination and regulations

...identifying information (including the signature of the applicant) and other information (including data relating to previous registration by the applicant), as is necessary to enable the appropriate State election official to assess the eligibility of the applicant... (A) specifies each eligibility requirement (including citizenship)

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Stop making up lies. 1) I'm not republican. 2) I provided a reason. You provide ID to provide proof of identification.

Proof of identification is used to prove you are who you say you are. If you don't have identification that does not mean you are not who you say you are, it simply means you don't have proof. People lie and cheat all the time every day. Lying and cheating is typically done when someone is likely to benefit from the act, and even more so when under peer pressure. Irregardless, the reason we require proof of identification is to discourage the crime. Fake IDs are easy to make, why do kids get em? So they can buy booze. Fake votes are easy to make, why would people do it? So their side will win.

Is voter fraud rampant? Who knows, we don't do anything to stop it, investigate it, or curb it.

Usually a law is created when a problem exists. You are saying we should make laws even when there is no problem and impose requirements for the non existent problem too?

And the reason thousands (or millions) have to go out and abide by this new law is because you want them too?

Well, see, that's the thing, and the reason I started the thread. If someone wants to say to me that "I don't believe stupid lazy people should be able to vote in order to force me to pay more taxes to give them shite," I can respect that. In fact, I'm at least in part in agreement with that.

But when someone says "I'm for voter ID because all these folks are voting three, four, six times in a single election," I call bullshit.

Actually both reasons are BS.

 

[kwc57]

Voter ID does not stop the type of voter fraud which occurs. Voter ID proponents are stone blind to this simple fact. They are so eager to enlarge the size and scope of government in our lives they fail to see the obvious.

They are even so retarded as to point to cases of absentee voter fraud as evidence we need Voter ID! They have even pointed to cases of absentee voter fraud in states that already have Voter ID as evidence we need Voter ID!

You can't make this shit up.

For some reason, they really, really, really, really want more totally ineffective government involvement in our lives.

This is beyond bizarre. This is Twilight Zone stuff.

What a load of horseshit. Enlarge the size and scope of government? Pulling out your existing ID and showing it to the poll working at the existing polling place enlarges government?

Requiring everyone to acquire national identity papers is enlargeing the size and scope of government, yes. Why does this truth elude you?

Who knew that the equivilant to a convenience store looking at your ID to sell you a pack of cigarettes was like adding a trillion dollar entitlement program that forces you to purchase a service you may not desire.

Wow. You are really trying to cram as many logical fallacies into one sentence as you can!

First, comparing ID for cigarettes to ID for voting is comparing apples to oranges. The reason is because there is no other valid way to prevent or stop a minor from buying cigarrettes than by making people show an ID. However, it has been proven time and again that producing Voter ID has virtually no effect at preventing or stopping the type of fraud which most frequently occurs. As I pointed out, some people are so retarded they have pointed to cases of absentee voter fraud in states which already have Voter ID as evidence of the need for Voter ID!

Next, you continue to justify one retarded program (Voter ID) by saying we have another retarded program (ObamaCare). This is the classic "two wrongs make a right" argument.

It's amusing how liberals keep considering themselves to be superior when they use preschool logic to support their arguments.

Irony, considering the horrible logical fallacies you are employing.

And now you have employed the strawman logical fallacy by assuming I am a liberal.

If you don't understand the issue or the discussion, perhaps you should mosey on over to the General Topics forum. States determine who can vote and states register them. Voter ID laws are set state by stateas to the kind of photo ID that will be considered valid for the purpose of proving you are indeed the registered voter you claim to be. You're delusional with your "national identity paper". This isn't a federal thing, it's a state thing. You are not registered to vote by the US government.

I brought up Obamacare because that is something that actually does change the size and scope of government as you falsely claim voter ID would. Your claim is false. I was merely pointing out an example of something that does as opposed to something that doesn't.

General Global Topics - US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

 

[bendog]

You have to have proof of identification to register to vote, providing your proof of identification again when you vote merely ensures that you vote won't be used in your absence. It is a courtesy to the voter that his vote won't be stolen by criminals. No different than requiring identification when someone writes a check against your bank account.

You anti-ID folks are being re-ridiculous. Don't like ID? Fine make it signature based. Scan the signature used during voter registration where you proved your proof of identification, then compare that to the signature used to vote.

I don't know that's true everywhere that you need ID to register

Federal law requires you to show proof of identification the first time you register to vote, or at the time of voting the first time you register to vote. US Code - Subchapter I-H: NATIONAL VOTER REGISTRATION and here 42 U.S.C. § 1973gg-7 : US Code - Section 1973GG-7: Federal coordination and regulations

...identifying information (including the signature of the applicant) and other information (including data relating to previous registration by the applicant), as is necessary to enable the appropriate State election official to assess the eligibility of the applicant... (A) specifies each eligibility requirement (including citizenship)

No it does not.

each State shall establish procedures to register to vote in elections for Federal office - (1) by application made simultaneously with an application for a motor vehicle driver's license pursuant to section 1973gg-3 of this title; (2) by mail application pursuant to section 1973gg-4 of this title; and (3) by application in person - (A) at the appropriate registration site designated with respect to the residence of the applicant in accordance with State law; and (B) - See more at: 42 U.S.C. § 1973gg-2 : US Code - Section 1973GG-2: National procedures for voter registration for elections for Federal office

42 U.S.C. § 1973gg-2 : US Code - Section 1973GG-2: National procedures for voter registration for elections for Federal office

For example, no picture id required to register

Photo ID Not Required

Two separate judges, on March 6 and March 12, 2012, have issued injunctions preventing the Government Accountability Board from enforcing photo ID requirements in 2011 Act 23. The Wisconsin Department of Justice has appealed those injunctions. Until they are resolved, no photo ID is required to receive a ballot. For additional information regarding the status of the voter photo ID law, please see the Voter Photo ID Law page.

Proof of Residence

The following constitute acceptable Proof-of-Residence if the document contains your current name and address and is valid on Election Day (unless otherwise indicated):
1.A current and valid Wisconsin driver license.
2.A current and valid Wisconsin identification card.
3.Any other official identification card or license issued by a Wisconsin governmental body or unit.
4.Any identification card issued by an employer in the normal course of business and bearing a photo of the card holder, but not including a business card.
5.A real estate tax bill or receipt for the current year or the year preceding the date of the election.
6.A residential lease which is effective for a period that includes election day (NOT for first-time voters registering by mail).
7.A university, college or technical institute identification card (must include photo), ONLY if the bearer provides a fee receipt dated within the last nine months or the institution provides a certified housing list to the municipal clerk.
8.A gas, electric or telephone service statement (utility bill) for the period commencing not earlier than 90 days before election day.
9.Bank statement.
10.Paycheck.
11.A check or other document issued by a unit of government.
Registration and Voting | Government Accountability Board

 

[theHawk]

As big of a problem identity theft is today, it just makes sense to at least ask for a photo ID for voting. It just seems like a logical, common sense thing to do in this day and age. But for whatever reason, liberals can't seem to grasp a common sense idea. This is just a classic example of how liberals have to blow up every little thing into some big political issue, when it really isn't.

You libs want background checks and 7 day waiting periods to exercise one constitutional right, but asking for an ID to prove who you are at the voting booth somehow prevents the same person from exercising a different constitutional right.

Liberal logic, at its best.

 

[bendog]

As big of a problem identity theft is today, it just makes sense to at least ask for a photo ID for voting. It just seems like a logical, common sense thing to do in this day and age. But for whatever reason, liberals can't seem to grasp a common sense idea. This is just a classic example of how liberals have to blow up every little thing into some big political issue, when it really isn't.

You libs want background checks and 7 day waiting periods to exercise one constitutional right, but asking for an ID to prove who you are at the voting booth somehow prevents the same person from exercising a different constitutional right.

Liberal logic, at its best.

too funny.

 

[RKMBrown]

So after this discussion, I'm even more convinced we should use and verify signature. Since the signature requirement is already a matter of federal law. If the signature you used to first register to vote no longer matches you should have to provide proof of ID with an updated signature to prove your signature has changed significantly over time.

 

[theHawk]

President Obama has finally “evolved” to support voter-ID laws. That’s the good news.

LOL. Its pretty sad when we're behind Kenya for this sort of common sense stuff.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Stop making up lies. 1) I'm not republican. 2) I provided a reason. You provide ID to provide proof of identification.

Proof of identification is used to prove you are who you say you are. If you don't have identification that does not mean you are not who you say you are, it simply means you don't have proof. People lie and cheat all the time every day. Lying and cheating is typically done when someone is likely to benefit from the act, and even more so when under peer pressure. Irregardless, the reason we require proof of identification is to discourage the crime. Fake IDs are easy to make, why do kids get em? So they can buy booze. Fake votes are easy to make, why would people do it? So their side will win.

Is voter fraud rampant? Who knows, we don't do anything to stop it, investigate it, or curb it.

Usually a law is created when a problem exists. You are saying we should make laws even when there is no problem and impose requirements for the non existent problem too?

And the reason thousands (or millions) have to go out and abide by this new law is because you want them too?

Well, see, that's the thing, and the reason I started the thread. If someone wants to say to me that "I don't believe stupid lazy people should be able to vote in order to force me to pay more taxes to give them shite," I can respect that. In fact, I'm at least in part in agreement with that.

But when someone says "I'm for voter ID because all these folks are voting three, four, six times in a single election," I call bullshit.

And it's not only bullshit because there's no real proof that such voter fraud is significant enough to actually flip an election, but it ignores the fact that the gop is purging voter rolls, and in Fla they possibly did flip an election by illegally purging rolls based on race. I'm going into labor over this, because JFK most likely stole an election, and LBJ and Daley made their bones cheating. But, call a spade a damn spade ... or man up about it

Stupid or lazy is not a reason to deny someone their right to vote

 

[RKMBrown]

I don't know that's true everywhere that you need ID to register

Federal law requires you to show proof of identification the first time you register to vote, or at the time of voting the first time you register to vote. US Code - Subchapter I-H: NATIONAL VOTER REGISTRATION and here 42 U.S.C. § 1973gg-7 : US Code - Section 1973GG-7: Federal coordination and regulations

...identifying information (including the signature of the applicant) and other information (including data relating to previous registration by the applicant), as is necessary to enable the appropriate State election official to assess the eligibility of the applicant... (A) specifies each eligibility requirement (including citizenship)

No it does not.

each State shall establish procedures to register to vote in elections for Federal office - (1) by application made simultaneously with an application for a motor vehicle driver's license pursuant to section 1973gg-3 of this title; (2) by mail application pursuant to section 1973gg-4 of this title; and (3) by application in person - (A) at the appropriate registration site designated with respect to the residence of the applicant in accordance with State law; and (B) - See more at: 42 U.S.C. § 1973gg-2 : US Code - Section 1973GG-2: National procedures for voter registration for elections for Federal office

42 U.S.C. § 1973gg-2 : US Code - Section 1973GG-2: National procedures for voter registration for elections for Federal office

For example, no picture id required to register

Photo ID Not Required

Two separate judges, on March 6 and March 12, 2012, have issued injunctions preventing the Government Accountability Board from enforcing photo ID requirements in 2011 Act 23. The Wisconsin Department of Justice has appealed those injunctions. Until they are resolved, no photo ID is required to receive a ballot. For additional information regarding the status of the voter photo ID law, please see the Voter Photo ID Law page.

Proof of Residence

The following constitute acceptable Proof-of-Residence if the document contains your current name and address and is valid on Election Day (unless otherwise indicated):
1.A current and valid Wisconsin driver license.
2.A current and valid Wisconsin identification card.
3.Any other official identification card or license issued by a Wisconsin governmental body or unit.
4.Any identification card issued by an employer in the normal course of business and bearing a photo of the card holder, but not including a business card.
5.A real estate tax bill or receipt for the current year or the year preceding the date of the election.
6.A residential lease which is effective for a period that includes election day (NOT for first-time voters registering by mail).
7.A university, college or technical institute identification card (must include photo), ONLY if the bearer provides a fee receipt dated within the last nine months or the institution provides a certified housing list to the municipal clerk.
8.A gas, electric or telephone service statement (utility bill) for the period commencing not earlier than 90 days before election day.
9.Bank statement.
10.Paycheck.
11.A check or other document issued by a unit of government.
Registration and Voting | Government Accountability Board

What part of what you said contradicts the US code that I cited or what I said? You'll note that I did not say a single thing about this or that type of photo id. I merely cited the law.

 

[theHawk]

So after this discussion, I'm even more convinced we should use and verify signature. Since the signature requirement is already a matter of federal law. If the signature you used to first register to vote no longer matches you should have to provide proof of ID with an updated signature to prove your signature has changed significantly over time.

The problem with that is, who is going to verify signatures? The same person can have many different looking signatures. The signatures I do on electronic pads look entirely different than ones I do with pen and paper. I would not trust the government or volunteers to make that kind of judgment call.

 

[ClosedCaption]

If a voter was legitimately on the rolls and voted before ID was required, but then was prevented from voting because he had no ID it "prevented a legit voter from voting."

One can be for voter ID, but still call a spade a spade. (-:

Yep, and it has never happened.

You know why? Because everyone has ID.

The only reason anyone opposes voter ID is because it stops fraud. Opposition to voter ID is opposition to honest elections - and every last one of us knows it - including you.

Thats right it never happens

Take for instance, Texas, where former U.S. House Speaker Jim Wright was at first refused a voter identification card last weekend when his expired driver's license and Texas Christian University faculty card were deemed insufficient to prove his identity.

He had to later provide a birth certificate to prove he was entitled to vote - which he has been doing in Texas for longer than most of us have been alive.

http://www.courier-journal.com/arti...14/Strict-voter-ID-laws-stop-voters-not-fraud

'cept it does.

"The law is going to kick the Democrats in the butt," said Don Yelton, who at the time was a Republican precinct captain in Buncombe County.

"If it hurts a bunch of college kids that's too lazy to get up off their bohunkus and go get a photo ID, so be it," Mr. Yelton said. "If it hurts the whites, so be it. If it hurts a bunch of lazy blacks that want the government to give them everything, so be it."

WHO CARES!?!? Right?

 

[ClosedCaption]

As big of a problem identity theft is today, it just makes sense to at least ask for a photo ID for voting. It just seems like a logical, common sense thing to do in this day and age. But for whatever reason, liberals can't seem to grasp a common sense idea. This is just a classic example of how liberals have to blow up every little thing into some big political issue, when it really isn't.

You libs want background checks and 7 day waiting periods to exercise one constitutional right, but asking for an ID to prove who you are at the voting booth somehow prevents the same person from exercising a different constitutional right.

Liberal logic, at its best.

I've never seen a vote blow someones head off

 

[RKMBrown]

So after this discussion, I'm even more convinced we should use and verify signature. Since the signature requirement is already a matter of federal law. If the signature you used to first register to vote no longer matches you should have to provide proof of ID with an updated signature to prove your signature has changed significantly over time.

The problem with that is, who is going to verify signatures? The same person can have many different looking signatures. The signatures I do on electronic pads look entirely different than ones I do with pen and paper. I would not trust the government or volunteers to make that kind of judgment call.

We'll use the NSA of course. Take video of the elections, scan the signatures, use software to identify suspects, cross index the video with the suspects, put them on a list...

LOL yeah not so much.. I was thinking the sig would get scanned automatically and a light would go on telling the lady handing you your ballot that the signature does not match the on file signature. Just like the software banks use to verify check signatures. If they don't match flip out the DL and show em who you are.

When you get your new state DL use the signature they put on your DL to refresh the on file signature.

 

[oldfart]

I doubt 360k adults in any state have no ID. We need ID to do just about anything in daily life. Where are these people who have no ID?

It's interesting that you don't contest any of the figures, just deny them. Most of these folks are either rural (as in Mississippi) or live in large urban areas with public transport. Getting a driver's license in many places is a real hassle (like where I reside now in Florida) requiring a certified birth certificate (not a copy) to prove citizenship. Lots of folks also live over 100 miles from the nearest place you can get a drivers license and by definition need transportation to get there.

Now I know that to Republicans, these are all invisible people. You don't know they exist. Sort of like minimum wage workers or undocumented workers. Your disbelief only proves how detached from reality you have made yourself.

 

[bendog]

the person who gave the 360K figure is a republican working for the republican secretary of state, and a former mayor of a staunchly republican city that is a bedroom community just south of Memphis.

Like I said, we'll see how this sorts out. But its a fact the alternate id's arent' being issued. The sec of state is a political animal who wants to be in the US senate, but he also is a Christian and not a sociopath. He's trying to implement a law that flat out intends to disenfranchise people. He can put lipstick on a pig, but he ain't gonna turn it into Miss America.

 

[RKMBrown]

I doubt 360k adults in any state have no ID. We need ID to do just about anything in daily life. Where are these people who have no ID?

It's interesting that you don't contest any of the figures, just deny them. Most of these folks are either rural (as in Mississippi) or live in large urban areas with public transport. Getting a driver's license in many places is a real hassle (like where I reside now in Florida) requiring a certified birth certificate (not a copy) to prove citizenship. Lots of folks also live over 100 miles from the nearest place you can get a drivers license and by definition need transportation to get there.

Now I know that to Republicans, these are all invisible people. You don't know they exist. Sort of like minimum wage workers or undocumented workers. Your disbelief only proves how detached from reality you have made yourself.

You folks living in the country don't have access to police, mail, internet, drivers licenses, no city halls, no courts, nothing. ROFL yeah right. Anyone living 100miles out how the hell are they gonna come 100miles to vote, but they can't come 100miles to get an identification card? I call BS. If you can vote you can get proof of identification.

 

[ClosedCaption]

I doubt 360k adults in any state have no ID. We need ID to do just about anything in daily life. Where are these people who have no ID?

It's interesting that you don't contest any of the figures, just deny them. Most of these folks are either rural (as in Mississippi) or live in large urban areas with public transport. Getting a driver's license in many places is a real hassle (like where I reside now in Florida) requiring a certified birth certificate (not a copy) to prove citizenship. Lots of folks also live over 100 miles from the nearest place you can get a drivers license and by definition need transportation to get there.

Now I know that to Republicans, these are all invisible people. You don't know they exist. Sort of like minimum wage workers or undocumented workers. Your disbelief only proves how detached from reality you have made yourself.

You folks living in the country don't have access to police, mail, internet, drivers licenses, no city halls, no courts, nothing. ROFL yeah right. Anyone living 100miles out how the hell are they gonna come 100miles to vote, but they can't come 100miles to get an identification card? I call BS. If you can vote you can get proof of identification.

ID's...he talking about getting...ID's.

Notice that he deflected then ended with his real intent. To cause harm and not care if, how or when you can jump thru the hoops. Even when you tell him its hard his response is "SO"

Clearly this is a American loving patriot here folks

 

[RoadVirus]

This is like requiring everyone to have a Hula Hoop and instead of asking "why the fuck do I need a Hula Hoop?"

Republicans see the new rule and ask "Who doesnt have a hula hoop? I mean c'mon"

No. This is like someone saying you have to have proof of identification to get a credit card or loan, buy booze or prescription drugs, drive on public roads, vote, and other equally important activities that all require proof of identification.

Yes you need ID for a lot of things. What about it?

You don't hear people bitching about needing an ID to buy booze. So why arte they bitching when it comes to having an ID to vote?