Grocery bag tax..Good idea or bad?

[g5000]

TreeHugger has a helpful guide to the environmental impacts of different kinds of reusable bags (canvas, polyester, polypropylene...) with this final word:

"What ultimately matters is if you actually use your reusable bags, or if you collect them dutifully from vendors and at conferences but then forget them at home every time you go to the store. If you can commit to using your canvas bag 171 times, or something like a Chicobag eleven times or more, then you have made a good decision. If you can't commit to this, chose plastic over paper bags, reuse the bags at the store, repurpose them as trash can liners, and recycle the rest at your local grocery store."

Reusable bags: Only superior to plastic if you reuse them - a lot

But the problem is ppl dont reuse plastic bags. Most of the time they use them for about 10 minutes then it goes in the wind and stays on earth for decades. Why would anyone have to use a bag 171 times for what? Why?

Exactly my point. I doubt anyone will use a reusable bag 171 times.

They suggest doing so but never explain why? Canvas is superior to plastic on the environmental impact alone..3 canvas takes the place of 3 plastic.

Only if you use the 3 canvas bags 171 times each.

If you do not use your reusable bag 171 times, your do-gooder bullshit has actually damaged the environment more. That's how many times you have to use it just to break even.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Reusable bags: Only superior to plastic if you reuse them - a lot

But the problem is ppl dont reuse plastic bags. Most of the time they use them for about 10 minutes then it goes in the wind and stays on earth for decades. Why would anyone have to use a bag 171 times for what? Why?

They suggest doing so but never explain why? Canvas is superior to plastic on the environmental impact alone..3 canvas takes the place of 3 plastic. Which if multiplied you can see how thats a good thing

So a tax is the answer?? Well guess what, those who do reuse or recycle (not that you can really reuse a flimsy grocery bag) GET TAXED FOR IT THERE AS WELL..

My wife and I try and use our reusable bags as much as we can, mainly because they are larger and easier to carry... and we get a discount at Giant Food with each reusable bag we bring in (hey, a couple cents is a couple cents).. but to tax bags in this state (Yes, I do live in MD) is just another money grab.. it has NOTHING to do with the environment or anything else... it is another O'Malley 'Open Your Wallet' moment

You can describe it anyway you like but the result is less plastic in the environment (I live in MD too).

 

[DiamondDave]

But the problem is ppl dont reuse plastic bags. Most of the time they use them for about 10 minutes then it goes in the wind and stays on earth for decades. Why would anyone have to use a bag 171 times for what? Why?

They suggest doing so but never explain why? Canvas is superior to plastic on the environmental impact alone..3 canvas takes the place of 3 plastic. Which if multiplied you can see how thats a good thing

So a tax is the answer?? Well guess what, those who do reuse or recycle (not that you can really reuse a flimsy grocery bag) GET TAXED FOR IT THERE AS WELL..

My wife and I try and use our reusable bags as much as we can, mainly because they are larger and easier to carry... and we get a discount at Giant Food with each reusable bag we bring in (hey, a couple cents is a couple cents).. but to tax bags in this state (Yes, I do live in MD) is just another money grab.. it has NOTHING to do with the environment or anything else... it is another O'Malley 'Open Your Wallet' moment

You can describe it anyway you like but the result is less plastic in the environment (I live in MD too).

A tax will not reduce plastic bags.. it will only be used, and is being used, as yet another money grab.. period

 

[g5000]

You can describe it anyway you like but the result is less plastic in the environment (I live in MD too).

You are ignoring the environmental impact of the manufacturing process. Precious natural resources are used to make your reusable bag.

That's why you need to use it 171 times just to break even. You are not doing the environment any favors if you do not use it at least 171 times. You will have less environmental impact if you use plastic bags if you don't use your reusable bag at least 171 times.

It is better for the environment for you to use 150 plastic bags than use a reusable bag less than 171 times.

 

[Katzndogz]

It sounds like the same results from the argument over disposable diapers. The plastic in disposable diapers doesn't biodegrade any more than the plastic in bags. But the impact cloth diapers have on the enviornment is far greater than a disposable. The cloth needs to be washed, in hot water, it needs detergent. Until they are washed, and no one washes a diaper as soon as it is soiled, the cloth is a breeding ground for bacteria. Now you don't hear anyone saying that disposable diapers are bad for the enviornment. They certainly didn't get BETTER!

Cloth grocery bags are going to go the same way. They breed disease, they are unsanitary and have to be cleaned in a manner that is not environmentally friendly.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Reusable bags: Only superior to plastic if you reuse them - a lot

But the problem is ppl dont reuse plastic bags. Most of the time they use them for about 10 minutes then it goes in the wind and stays on earth for decades. Why would anyone have to use a bag 171 times for what? Why?

Exactly my point. I doubt anyone will use a reusable bag 171 times.

They suggest doing so but never explain why? Canvas is superior to plastic on the environmental impact alone..3 canvas takes the place of 3 plastic.

Only if you use the 3 canvas bags 171 times each.

If you do not use your reusable bag 171 times, your do-gooder bullshit has actually damaged the environment more. That's how many times you have to use it just to break even.

What are you talking about? So 1 less plastic bag in the environment is a bad thing? Only if you reach a million per person does it turn into anything good?

You're missing the point....ONE less plastic bag is a good thing. No one HAS to use a canvas bag any number of times for it to make sense to you. I used 2 this weekend that resulted in 2 less plastic bags being thrown into the environment. You can say "only 2" all you want but it counts

 

[ClosedCaption]

So a tax is the answer?? Well guess what, those who do reuse or recycle (not that you can really reuse a flimsy grocery bag) GET TAXED FOR IT THERE AS WELL..

My wife and I try and use our reusable bags as much as we can, mainly because they are larger and easier to carry... and we get a discount at Giant Food with each reusable bag we bring in (hey, a couple cents is a couple cents).. but to tax bags in this state (Yes, I do live in MD) is just another money grab.. it has NOTHING to do with the environment or anything else... it is another O'Malley 'Open Your Wallet' moment

You can describe it anyway you like but the result is less plastic in the environment (I live in MD too).

A tax will not reduce plastic bags.. it will only be used, and is being used, as yet another money grab.. period

If less people get plastic bags then yes, it will reduce plastic bags. Unless we're just making things up

 

[g5000]

But the problem is ppl dont reuse plastic bags. Most of the time they use them for about 10 minutes then it goes in the wind and stays on earth for decades. Why would anyone have to use a bag 171 times for what? Why?

Exactly my point. I doubt anyone will use a reusable bag 171 times.

They suggest doing so but never explain why? Canvas is superior to plastic on the environmental impact alone..3 canvas takes the place of 3 plastic.

Only if you use the 3 canvas bags 171 times each.

If you do not use your reusable bag 171 times, your do-gooder bullshit has actually damaged the environment more. That's how many times you have to use it just to break even.

What are you talking about? So 1 less plastic bag in the environment is a bad thing? Only if you reach a million per person does it turn into anything good?

You're missing the point....ONE less plastic bag is a good thing. No one HAS to use a canvas bag any number of times for it to make sense to you. I used 2 this weekend that resulted in 2 less plastic bags being thrown into the environment. You can say "only 2" all you want but it counts

This is why I have the second Reagan quote in my sig. Math is plainly not your strong suit.

I willl therefore have to use exaggeration for you to get it.

If it took an entire mountain of raw materials to make your cute little reusable bag, and only a cupful of raw materials to make your plastic bag, how are you doing the environment any favors by using the reusuable bag?

Do you understand how stupid you would sound saying, "One less plastic bag is a good thing"?


It takes 171 times the natural resources to make your reusuable bag than it takes to make a plastic bag.

So you are not doing the environment any favors. At all. UNLESS and UNTIL you reuse that reusable bag AT LEAST 171 times.

Since you used your two reusuable bags this weekend, you have 170 times, each, to go. Until then, you are causing more harm to the environment than if you used plastic bags.

 

[Katzndogz]

A tax on plastic grocery bags will not reduce the number of plastic bags in use. It will just shift plastic bag use from grocery bags to other plastic bags. What did reduce the number of plastic bags in use was the little containers that you could put your plastic bags in that stood just outside of every grocery store.

 

[ClosedCaption]

You can describe it anyway you like but the result is less plastic in the environment (I live in MD too).

You are ignoring the environmental impact of the manufacturing process. Precious natural resources are used to make your reusable bag.

That's why you need to use it 171 times just to break even. You are not doing the environment any favors if you do not use it at least 171 times. You will have less environmental impact if you use plastic bags if you don't use your reusable bag at least 171 times.

It is better for the environment for you to use 150 plastic bags than use a reusable bag less than 171 times.

Canvas bags can be recycled. Plastic bags cant. That last statement is on its face ridiculous. If you want to pitch the 150 plastic bags in our environment is a good thing, then have it..but it's bullshit if you ever seen a landfill, a city sewer or crap floating in the ocean..it aint canvas bags.

Oh, I see what you're doing...You're completly ignoring the impact plastic bags have on the environment and only comparing the manufacturing costs or impacts. Got it...Fuck the world! Yeee haw!

 

[gallantwarrior]

Maryland is set to impose an additional tax on plastic bags. I heard a commercial about it saying thst it would hurt the middle class and poor while losing jobs. But itnwas paid for by plastic bag manufactures...sooooo...yeah.

I se it like this...tax the hell outta plastic bags means that less ppl will use them means less plastic goes into our environment. Win win

The only down side is for those who cannot livenwithout plastic bags will have to pay more for their plastic, or adapt.

Your thoughts?

The company that makes those bags closes, they fire all the people who used to work there. How are these ex employees being helped? They get to go on welfare? Is that the help they will get?

All the stores that those people used to shop at have lost their customers. Are they being helped?

You are being ironic, aren't you? That's such a liberally democratic argument to continue doing something...people will lose their jobs. That appears to be the new libtard mantra since "it's for the children" seems to be wearing thin. Something has to give. Libs hate plastic and it should be outlawed because of the environmental harm it does. But we cannot allow the manufacturers to stop producing plastic because of the economic harm it will do.

 

[gallantwarrior]

But the problem is ppl dont reuse plastic bags. Most of the time they use them for about 10 minutes then it goes in the wind and stays on earth for decades. Why would anyone have to use a bag 171 times for what? Why?

Exactly my point. I doubt anyone will use a reusable bag 171 times.

They suggest doing so but never explain why? Canvas is superior to plastic on the environmental impact alone..3 canvas takes the place of 3 plastic.

Only if you use the 3 canvas bags 171 times each.

If you do not use your reusable bag 171 times, your do-gooder bullshit has actually damaged the environment more. That's how many times you have to use it just to break even.

What are you talking about? So 1 less plastic bag in the environment is a bad thing? Only if you reach a million per person does it turn into anything good?

You're missing the point....ONE less plastic bag is a good thing. No one HAS to use a canvas bag any number of times for it to make sense to you. I used 2 this weekend that resulted in 2 less plastic bags being thrown into the environment. You can say "only 2" all you want but it counts

Here's a question...what do you do with the "reusable" bags when they are worn out? They don't last forever, either.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Exactly my point. I doubt anyone will use a reusable bag 171 times.





Only if you use the 3 canvas bags 171 times each.

If you do not use your reusable bag 171 times, your do-gooder bullshit has actually damaged the environment more. That's how many times you have to use it just to break even.

What are you talking about? So 1 less plastic bag in the environment is a bad thing? Only if you reach a million per person does it turn into anything good?

You're missing the point....ONE less plastic bag is a good thing. No one HAS to use a canvas bag any number of times for it to make sense to you. I used 2 this weekend that resulted in 2 less plastic bags being thrown into the environment. You can say "only 2" all you want but it counts

Here's a question...what do you do with the "reusable" bags when they are worn out? They don't last forever, either.

throw them away, use a cleaning rag, cut and use as a Ninja mask, Create a scarecrow mask, make it into a laundry dryer sheet etc.

All things that cannot be done with Plastic...Oh and recycle them.

 

[gallantwarrior]

What are you talking about? So 1 less plastic bag in the environment is a bad thing? Only if you reach a million per person does it turn into anything good?

You're missing the point....ONE less plastic bag is a good thing. No one HAS to use a canvas bag any number of times for it to make sense to you. I used 2 this weekend that resulted in 2 less plastic bags being thrown into the environment. You can say "only 2" all you want but it counts

Here's a question...what do you do with the "reusable" bags when they are worn out? They don't last forever, either.

throw them away, use a cleaning rag, cut and use as a Ninja mask, Create a scarecrow mask, make it into a laundry dryer sheet etc.

All things that cannot be done with Plastic...Oh and recycle them.

And after you have done all those things, what then? You still end up with a pile of soiled, useless fabric. You speak of recycling. Yet you not only use a dryer (instead of hanging clothes outside on the line), you use dryer sheets, too?

http://shop.sixwise.com/avoidoneofthemosttoxiclaundryproductsinyourhome.aspx

 

[ClosedCaption]

Here's a question...what do you do with the "reusable" bags when they are worn out? They don't last forever, either.

throw them away, use a cleaning rag, cut and use as a Ninja mask, Create a scarecrow mask, make it into a laundry dryer sheet etc.

All things that cannot be done with Plastic...Oh and recycle them.

And after you have done all those things, what then? You still end up with a pile of soiled, useless fabric. You speak of recycling. Yet you not only use a dryer (instead of hanging clothes outside on the line), you use dryer sheets, too?

First I hope you wash so that they wont be soiled but that useless fabric can be RECYCLED AND REPURPOSED! 2 things that cannot be done with plastic bags. What do you do with old plastic bags? Shove it into another plastic bag and put it into a landfill where it can stay for a hundred years.

 

[deaddogseye]

Maryland is set to impose an additional tax on plastic bags. I heard a commercial about it saying thst it would hurt the middle class and poor while losing jobs. But itnwas paid for by plastic bag manufactures...sooooo...yeah.

I se it like this...tax the hell outta plastic bags means that less ppl will use them means less plastic goes into our environment. Win win

The only down side is for those who cannot livenwithout plastic bags will have to pay more for their plastic, or adapt.

Your thoughts?

the tax already existis in montgomery county maryland and also in the district of columbia. Its a joke in my opinion just more behavior control by the government -- it doesnt raise any money. they just want people to carry around those little canvas bags which i refuse to do. i just go to the self check out at the supermarket and take them and dont pay fro them anyway.

 

[gallantwarrior]

At all the COSTCO stores here, they use no paper or plastic grocery bags. They do offer customers the boxes that were used to ship merchandise to carry their groceries. I have no personal preference for either store plastic bags or re-usable.
On my homestead, we burn everything that will burn. Metals are cleaned of any bear-attracting debris this way, before they are gathered into large, plastic trash cans with anything not burned, like plastics. Kitchen waste can be composted, as is every thing not burned or taken to the landfill. This takes care of any animal mortality, and other organic wastes. Compost is used on the garden and fields. We are planning on installing a system that will also use the heat generated by compost to warm water for the animals in the winter or heat a greenhouse.

 

[gallantwarrior]

I agree with those who view this tax as nothing more than another way for government to take our money. Unless the money collected is reserved for an appropriate purpose, perhaps establishing more recycle centers or collection sites, or paying to run landfills. You can bet that has not, and most likely will not happen.

 

[DiamondDave]

You can describe it anyway you like but the result is less plastic in the environment (I live in MD too).

A tax will not reduce plastic bags.. it will only be used, and is being used, as yet another money grab.. period

If less people get plastic bags then yes, it will reduce plastic bags. Unless we're just making things up

People are not going to get less plastic bags... they will pay the tax, or get ones that cause even MORE environmental hazard.. this is NOTHING MORE THAN A MONEY GRAB BY MD AGAIN!!!

 

[DiamondDave]

You can describe it anyway you like but the result is less plastic in the environment (I live in MD too).

You are ignoring the environmental impact of the manufacturing process. Precious natural resources are used to make your reusable bag.

That's why you need to use it 171 times just to break even. You are not doing the environment any favors if you do not use it at least 171 times. You will have less environmental impact if you use plastic bags if you don't use your reusable bag at least 171 times.

It is better for the environment for you to use 150 plastic bags than use a reusable bag less than 171 times.

Canvas bags can be recycled. Plastic bags cant. That last statement is on its face ridiculous. If you want to pitch the 150 plastic bags in our environment is a good thing, then have it..but it's bullshit if you ever seen a landfill, a city sewer or crap floating in the ocean..it aint canvas bags.

Oh, I see what you're doing...You're completly ignoring the impact plastic bags have on the environment and only comparing the manufacturing costs or impacts. Got it...Fuck the world! Yeee haw!

You do know it takes energy to recycle (many times it is incredibly more than it takes to manufacture and deal with the thing you are trying to save).. and you are taxed for recycling services... right?? You do know that things such as recycling and hybrid cars have MORE of an environmental impact than what you are trying to deem s 'evil' in its impact on 'the planet'