Grocery bag tax..Good idea or bad?

[Soggy in NOLA]

Maryland is set to impose an additional tax on plastic bags. I heard a commercial about it saying thst it would hurt the middle class and poor while losing jobs. But itnwas paid for by plastic bag manufactures...sooooo...yeah.

I se it like this...tax the hell outta plastic bags means that less ppl will use them means less plastic goes into our environment. Win win

The only down side is for those who cannot livenwithout plastic bags will have to pay more for their plastic, or adapt.

Your thoughts?

Yeah, here's my thoughts.. you libs always claim that by taxing something, people will use less of it... care to admit that the same applies to income? Or, is that somehow different?

BTW.... plastic bag tax sounds insanely stupid. Is there anything you fucknutz don't want to slap a tax or fee on? So, now you want to slap a fee on some poor downtrodden shopper who can barely buy groceries?

You fuckers are heartless... just another war on the poor.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

I agree with those who view this tax as nothing more than another way for government to take our money. Unless the money collected is reserved for an appropriate purpose, perhaps establishing more recycle centers or collection sites, or paying to run landfills. You can bet that has not, and most likely will not happen.

It will go directly to the GF and whatever they collect, it will generate 3X that amount in new spending.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

throw them away, use a cleaning rag, cut and use as a Ninja mask, Create a scarecrow mask, make it into a laundry dryer sheet etc.

All things that cannot be done with Plastic...Oh and recycle them.

And after you have done all those things, what then? You still end up with a pile of soiled, useless fabric. You speak of recycling. Yet you not only use a dryer (instead of hanging clothes outside on the line), you use dryer sheets, too?

First I hope you wash so that they wont be soiled but that useless fabric can be RECYCLED AND REPURPOSED! 2 things that cannot be done with plastic bags. What do you do with old plastic bags? Shove it into another plastic bag and put it into a landfill where it can stay for a hundred years.

If we ignore the fact that you can recycle and re-purpose those plastic bags you actually have a point. On the other hand, if we factor in the fact that they can be re-purposed into building materials, you just look like a desperate fool trying to defend killing people.

 

[ClosedCaption]

A tax will not reduce plastic bags.. it will only be used, and is being used, as yet another money grab.. period

If less people get plastic bags then yes, it will reduce plastic bags. Unless we're just making things up

People are not going to get less plastic bags... they will pay the tax, or get ones that cause even MORE environmental hazard.. this is NOTHING MORE THAN A MONEY GRAB BY MD AGAIN!!!

Put down that crystal ball...Ppl can pay the tax and others will choose not too and use canvas bags. Those that choose canvas will be using less plastic bags which is a good thing. Call it apple pie if you want but apple pie will result in less plastic bags as an option

 

[Quantum Windbag]

At all the COSTCO stores here, they use no paper or plastic grocery bags. They do offer customers the boxes that were used to ship merchandise to carry their groceries. I have no personal preference for either store plastic bags or re-usable.
On my homestead, we burn everything that will burn. Metals are cleaned of any bear-attracting debris this way, before they are gathered into large, plastic trash cans with anything not burned, like plastics. Kitchen waste can be composted, as is every thing not burned or taken to the landfill. This takes care of any animal mortality, and other organic wastes. Compost is used on the garden and fields. We are planning on installing a system that will also use the heat generated by compost to warm water for the animals in the winter or heat a greenhouse.

The CostCo stores there are just like every other CostCo store in the entire country, amazing.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I agree with those who view this tax as nothing more than another way for government to take our money. Unless the money collected is reserved for an appropriate purpose, perhaps establishing more recycle centers or collection sites, or paying to run landfills. You can bet that has not, and most likely will not happen.

It will go directly to the GF and whatever they collect, it will generate 3X that amount in new spending.

Isn't magic money wonderful?

 

[Pogo]

Maryland is set to impose an additional tax on plastic bags. I heard a commercial about it saying thst it would hurt the middle class and poor while losing jobs. But itnwas paid for by plastic bag manufactures...sooooo...yeah.

I se it like this...tax the hell outta plastic bags means that less ppl will use them means less plastic goes into our environment. Win win

The only down side is for those who cannot livenwithout plastic bags will have to pay more for their plastic, or adapt.

Your thoughts?

I like it. It would certainly incentivize people to remember to bring their own containers (and I'm one that needs the reminder). The groceries around here, if not everywhere, seem obsessed already with packing your purchase into as many little plastic bags as they can find, which leaves me with a huge never-ending bag of empty bags that has to go back to them for recycling, which is just a lot of wasted effort.

Anything that counters the self-centered mindlessness of a throwaway society is a good thing.

Let's just be clear on one thing: it would not cause us to "use less bags". It would cause us to use fewer bags.

 

[gallantwarrior]

And after you have done all those things, what then? You still end up with a pile of soiled, useless fabric. You speak of recycling. Yet you not only use a dryer (instead of hanging clothes outside on the line), you use dryer sheets, too?

First I hope you wash so that they wont be soiled but that useless fabric can be RECYCLED AND REPURPOSED! 2 things that cannot be done with plastic bags. What do you do with old plastic bags? Shove it into another plastic bag and put it into a landfill where it can stay for a hundred years.

If we ignore the fact that you can recycle and re-purpose those plastic bags you actually have a point. On the other hand, if we factor in the fact that they can be re-purposed into building materials, you just look like a desperate fool trying to defend killing people.

I know a guy whose wife weaves or braids those plastic bags into...reusable plastic shopping bags! They're really cool, too. Anyone truly committed to recycling might want to look into this.

Lovely Trash: Creative ways to reuse trash | Plastic bag yarn: make a bag

 

[Spoonman]

Maryland is set to impose an additional tax on plastic bags. I heard a commercial about it saying thst it would hurt the middle class and poor while losing jobs. But itnwas paid for by plastic bag manufactures...sooooo...yeah.

I se it like this...tax the hell outta plastic bags means that less ppl will use them means less plastic goes into our environment. Win win

The only down side is for those who cannot livenwithout plastic bags will have to pay more for their plastic, or adapt.

Your thoughts?

here is a little reality on bags, plastic vs paper.

when they get into a landfill, a plasic bag and a paper bag degrade at the same rate.

500 plastic bags fit in a box 1/3 the size of the box that holds 250 comperable sized paper bags. so you have about 6 times the shipping volume, associated costs and pollution transporting paper bags.

Same goes for storage space.

if we replaced our plastic bag usage with paper, we would decimate our forests. we do not have the paper resources to make this happen.

unless the paper bag is an unbleached non printed kraft, its as toxic to manufacture as a plastic bag.

plastic can be made more biodegradable than paper.

plastic is as recyclable as paper. plus, every time you recycle paper you break down the fibers rendering the future product weaker. not true with plastic.

just as shipping out, collecting for recycling requires 6 times the volume, transportation costs as plastic.

switching from plastic to paper does not help the environment

 

[Spoonman]

Maryland is set to impose an additional tax on plastic bags. I heard a commercial about it saying thst it would hurt the middle class and poor while losing jobs. But itnwas paid for by plastic bag manufactures...sooooo...yeah.

I se it like this...tax the hell outta plastic bags means that less ppl will use them means less plastic goes into our environment. Win win

The only down side is for those who cannot livenwithout plastic bags will have to pay more for their plastic, or adapt.

Your thoughts?

I like it. It would certainly incentivize people to remember to bring their own containers (and I'm one that needs the reminder). The groceries around here, if not everywhere, seem obsessed already with packing your purchase into as many little plastic bags as they can find, which leaves me with a huge never-ending bag of empty bags that has to go back to them for recycling, which is just a lot of wasted effort.

Anything that counters the self-centered mindlessness of a throwaway society is a good thing.

Let's just be clear on one thing: it would not cause us to "use less bags". It would cause us to use fewer bags.

that is the way to go

 

[ClosedCaption]

You are ignoring the environmental impact of the manufacturing process. Precious natural resources are used to make your reusable bag.

That's why you need to use it 171 times just to break even. You are not doing the environment any favors if you do not use it at least 171 times. You will have less environmental impact if you use plastic bags if you don't use your reusable bag at least 171 times.

It is better for the environment for you to use 150 plastic bags than use a reusable bag less than 171 times.

Canvas bags can be recycled. Plastic bags cant. That last statement is on its face ridiculous. If you want to pitch the 150 plastic bags in our environment is a good thing, then have it..but it's bullshit if you ever seen a landfill, a city sewer or crap floating in the ocean..it aint canvas bags.

Oh, I see what you're doing...You're completly ignoring the impact plastic bags have on the environment and only comparing the manufacturing costs or impacts. Got it...Fuck the world! Yeee haw!

You do know it takes energy to recycle (many times it is incredibly more than it takes to manufacture and deal with the thing you are trying to save).. and you are taxed for recycling services... right?? You do know that things such as recycling and hybrid cars have MORE of an environmental impact than what you are trying to deem s 'evil' in its impact on 'the planet'

No I didnt know that...and still dont since you provide crap to back it up

 

[Harry Dresden]

You would have to find the guy who thinks trash bags are cool and ask him. I'm the other guy, your strawman doesn't apply to me.

why don't you just say....i don't know why.......you know dam well know that is a legitimate question in this debate....

Whats a legitimate question? You cant seem to say that plastic bags are bad...you're just running around saying something else is worse. And how do you prove that? You just repeat it and expect for it to be true.

Plastic bags are bad for the environment. Period, you are the only one wanting to go down a list...Grocery, convience, garbage, sandwich etc...lol

are you that dense or what?......if someone is saying plastic GROCERY bags are no good....but are avoiding talking about plastic trash bags like they DON'T present a problem.....i want to know why.....maybe your one of those people that just goes with the flow and doesn't question anything.....i do question things......your starting to sound like the jerks on the L.A.City council......they did not like questions either....

 

[ClosedCaption]

why don't you just say....i don't know why.......you know dam well know that is a legitimate question in this debate....

Whats a legitimate question? You cant seem to say that plastic bags are bad...you're just running around saying something else is worse. And how do you prove that? You just repeat it and expect for it to be true.

Plastic bags are bad for the environment. Period, you are the only one wanting to go down a list...Grocery, convience, garbage, sandwich etc...lol

are you that dense or what?......if someone is saying plastic GROCERY bags are no good....but are avoiding talking about plastic trash bags like they DON'T present a problem.....i want to know why.....maybe your one of those people that just goes with the flow and doesn't question anything.....i do question things......your starting to sound like the jerks on the L.A.City council......they did not like questions either....

Dude, the tax is for Grocery bags. If you dont like it tell them to make it all grocery bags. By them I mean not me. I thought we were talking about the grocery bag tax...you want to talk about all plastic bags period which isnt covered in the law we're discussing.

Hell, thats like me saying you must be for plastic hair nets because you never mentioned them being a problem. Uh, because no one is talking about hair nets

 

[Harry Dresden]

Reusable bags: Only superior to plastic if you reuse them - a lot

But the problem is ppl dont reuse plastic bags. Most of the time they use them for about 10 minutes then it goes in the wind and stays on earth for decades. Why would anyone have to use a bag 171 times for what? Why?

They suggest doing so but never explain why? Canvas is superior to plastic on the environmental impact alone..3 canvas takes the place of 3 plastic. Which if multiplied you can see how thats a good thing

So a tax is the answer?? Well guess what, those who do reuse or recycle (not that you can really reuse a flimsy grocery bag) GET TAXED FOR IT THERE AS WELL..

My wife and I try and use our reusable bags as much as we can, mainly because they are larger and easier to carry... and we get a discount at Giant Food with each reusable bag we bring in (hey, a couple cents is a couple cents).. but to tax bags in this state (Yes, I do live in MD) is just another money grab.. it has NOTHING to do with the environment or anything else... it is another O'Malley 'Open Your Wallet' moment

and that is the same way it is out here in the places where they are banned....someone is making a buck but letting other plastic bags proceed without addressing them....

 

[Harry Dresden]

You can describe it anyway you like but the result is less plastic in the environment (I live in MD too).

You are ignoring the environmental impact of the manufacturing process. Precious natural resources are used to make your reusable bag.

That's why you need to use it 171 times just to break even. You are not doing the environment any favors if you do not use it at least 171 times. You will have less environmental impact if you use plastic bags if you don't use your reusable bag at least 171 times.

It is better for the environment for you to use 150 plastic bags than use a reusable bag less than 171 times.

Canvas bags can be recycled. Plastic bags cant. That last statement is on its face ridiculous. If you want to pitch the 150 plastic bags in our environment is a good thing, then have it..but it's bullshit if you ever seen a landfill, a city sewer or crap floating in the ocean..it aint canvas bags.

Oh, I see what you're doing...You're completly ignoring the impact plastic bags have on the environment and only comparing the manufacturing costs or impacts. Got it...Fuck the world! Yeee haw!

no your right......its PLASTIC TRASH BAGS......

 

[ClosedCaption]

And plastic training wheels but we aren't talking about plastic training wheels. FYI that doesnt mean in your confused mind that I am pro-plastic training wheels. Geez...you need an actual strawman to fight.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Actually I'd say plastic water bottles are more of a problem...but we aren't talking about those either

 

[Harry Dresden]

Whats a legitimate question? You cant seem to say that plastic bags are bad...you're just running around saying something else is worse. And how do you prove that? You just repeat it and expect for it to be true.

Plastic bags are bad for the environment. Period, you are the only one wanting to go down a list...Grocery, convience, garbage, sandwich etc...lol

are you that dense or what?......if someone is saying plastic GROCERY bags are no good....but are avoiding talking about plastic trash bags like they DON'T present a problem.....i want to know why.....maybe your one of those people that just goes with the flow and doesn't question anything.....i do question things......your starting to sound like the jerks on the L.A.City council......they did not like questions either....

Dude, the tax is for Grocery bags. If you dont like it tell them to make it all grocery bags. By them I mean not me. I thought we were talking about the grocery bag tax...you want to talk about all plastic bags period which isnt covered in the law we're discussing.

Hell, thats like me saying you must be for plastic hair nets because you never mentioned them being a problem. Uh, because no one is talking about hair nets

no we are talking about the PLASTIC grocery bag tax.....its your thread remember......what is the purpose of the tax?......its to get people to hopefully start buying those canvas bags....right?.....why?......because they say they are clogging up the landfills ......well guess what....millions of plastic trash bags are being used everyday and they are Clogging up the landfills probably even more......so my question was.....WHY are the grocery ones so bad that they are banning or taxing them,but the Trash bags are not even being discussed......if you cant answer the dam question CC ......then just say either i don't know or there are hypocrites making these laws or someone is making a buck.....but quite giving me your fucking bullshit......because that's all your doing.....like i said you are sounding like the assholes on the LA City council......don't answer a question,just avoid it.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

And plastic training wheels but we aren't talking about plastic training wheels. FYI that doesnt mean in your confused mind that I am pro-plastic training wheels. Geez...you need an actual strawman to fight.

yea like millions of those end up in landfills.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Actually I'd say plastic water bottles are more of a problem...but we aren't talking about those either

plastic water bottles are very recyclable.....and at least out here the trash company collects and recycles any they get.....so i doubt they are as much of a problem.....go ahead you are doing great avoiding the question i asked....whats next?....