Gun Control - What's the Problem?

[Ray From Cleveland]

Three of the first four posts supply your answer all in the same way: the old Slippery Slope fallacy.

Post 11, as is his wont, prefers the Strawman.

The "slippery slope" argument is the one that I do not understand. Why oppose something that makes sense in fear of possible future proposals that may or may not take away your rights? Why not do what is right now in an effort to help a big problem (even if it just helps a little) and fight proposals that impede your rights if/when they are proposed?

That's like saying, "Why try to keep an avalanche from starting? Just deal with it when it's coming down the mountain". There's a historical pattern to this. We have seen totalitarianism first disarm the populace through these same measures. Slippery slope isn't a fallacy when it really exists.

I’ll answer your question by posing this situation. You support the military I presume? Now if the government were to take over and control the people like your slippery slope fears lay out then they would first disarm the people then control them through force. That force would be the police and military. So why do you support growing those? The slippery slope says they will eventually take away your rights by force. You should be defunding them, right?

See through one side of your mouth you want guns to protect yourself against a tyrannical government. But from the other you support strengthening the military power of that government. See the dilemma?

So we should weaken our police and military in the event of the slight chance turn on us?

So we should arm up in event of the slight chance they turn on us?

I’m not advocating these things, I’m showing where his logic leads when defending the slippery slope

His logic is just fine. We should support our military and police. We should build them up because they are there to protect us. I think that's very logical. But it is also logical to keep our arms in the event we come under some tyrannical leadership that may use those very same forces against us.

As an example, look how DumBama used the FBI and the FISA courts against our candidate. Those are federal agencies just like the IRS. Again, they are there to protect the people. However DumBama used those very same federal agencies against the people who opposed his party.

Now while the military is a separate entity, it's still wise to use caution as the next Democrat President just may use the military as DumBama used the FBI, IRS and the FISA courts against us.

 

[bripat9643]

No, YOU think about it.....You spout this Utopian belief that we can actually control who gets guns. In the meantime, you offer no explanation as to who you 'think' shouldn't have a gun. Clever of you try to debunk the most likely possibility that the government will expand who they think is mentally incapable of owning a gun by indicting those who question such regulations as using 'fear tactics.'

When they decide that one of your prescription drugs renders you incapable of owning the guns you already have, maybe then the truth will sink in.

I think those are all fair concerns. Does bi polar disqualify somebody, autism, PTSD soldiers? There are no easy answers so it will be a hearty debate. Problem is we can’t even get to the debate because the team partisans won’t let it get there.

What I’m spouting is not a utopian belief it is common sense regulations that any responsible society should be doing.

If you start taking rights away from those with mental health issue fewer and fewer will seek help with those issues
and also you will be infringing on doctor-patient privilege

and your bull crap about gun control not being debated is just that bull crap the debate been going on for decades its just you gun grabbers keep losing the debate and won't accept defeat so you act like a debate hasn't been going on

No shit, that’s why I brought up those issues. There will never be victory or defeat on this issue. You are naive to think so.

So why should anyone who supports the 2nd Amendment concede on inch to your agenda?

They shouldn’t if they disagree with me. They should if they agree with me. Not very complicated.

So they should if they are morons? The question here, numskull, is why should anyone agree with you?

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

The question is not whether they work or not, the question is whether they solve anything or not.

Nothing is ever going to solve the problem of gun violence, all we can do is try and help in as many areas as we can. Background checks force criminals and high risk individuals to get guns from illegal means. This makes it harder and more expensive for them and limits their options. It also narrows things for law enforcement who want to fight the underground gun market.

If we had no BG checks and no gun Regs then all that goes away and anybody can buy anything from any store that offers it. I personally don’t think that helps a thing, It can only hurt

I don't think background checks do all that much. Most people who want to commit a crime for the first time don't want a weapon that can be traced back to them in most cases, unless it's a mass shooting where suicide is part of the plan.

For people not legally allowed to buy or own a firearm, straw buyers seems to be the problem there, and I don't think we do enough to those people who are buying weapons on behalf of a felon.

See you make the case for me. You say, Criminals don’t buy guns from stores because they don’t want it traced to them or they won’t pass a BG check. That’s a good thing. The fact that we have the ability to trace and do background checks is a deterrent from allowing them easy access to weapons. Push them to the black market and make it easier for law enforcement to fight the good fight. It means the laws are working

the point made background checks don't keep guns out of the hands of criminals just like making drugs illegal keep from people obtaining drugs keep us from having a drug epidemic
why is that simple fact so hard for your ignorance to understand

Nothing will keep guns out of the hands of criminals. It’s dumb to imply that anybody expects such things. But you surely aren’t suggesting we make it easier for them to get guns are you? Let them walk into any old store and buy whatever they want?? Tell me you aren’t promoting that.

Keep them locked up, and they won't be buying from anyone.

 

[Slade3200]

We can keep many of them from getting firearms legally and easily in stores. Data shows that we already are because of our laws. We want them getting guns on the black market and being limited with options and selection. Those are good things. Why would we want to make it easier for them?

Hey bud...I’m begging for your attention....grace us with your presence over here for a minute will you...We’re hoping you’ll shed some light and explain the logic.
Stop the sale of AR-15’s but not the importation of illegal aliens.

This is a gun debate... I’m not surprised that you want to shift it to immigration but that’s off topic

Haha...my question aligns with your gun debate.
“Who / what kills more Americans...wetbacks or AR15’s?”
Don’t be scared, you have permission to answer.

Cars kill more people than anything. You wanting to outlaw those too? You’re stretching to lame comparisons. Stick to the subject loser

It would be impractical to outlaw cars. Do you think it’s impractical to outlaw wetbacks?

Yes

 

[Slade3200]

I think those are all fair concerns. Does bi polar disqualify somebody, autism, PTSD soldiers? There are no easy answers so it will be a hearty debate. Problem is we can’t even get to the debate because the team partisans won’t let it get there.

What I’m spouting is not a utopian belief it is common sense regulations that any responsible society should be doing.

You are not going to keep criminals and the criminal mentally ill from obtaining firearms. There should be no debate. We already have laws against criminals owning firearms. Most people with actual mental illness are NOT given guns. These little perps can think for themselves and can decide what is right and what is wrong. That makes them perfectly mentally competent.

They're just rotters who have been taught by our liberal politicians and our liberal MSM to hate. No amount of gun control with cure this, the only cure is to reject leftist, Neo-Marxist bullshit and teach our children morals and values by MODELING good sexual relationships with heterosexual relationships and marriages with commitment that uphold family and societal values.

Like I already said it's not the guns it's government SUPPORT of fatherless families (especially in the 'black' community), support of little girls getting abortions when they should have NEVER allowed themselves to get pregnant in the first place, support and promotion of gender dysphoria, the notion that humans are destroying the Earth and on and on and on. WTF did you expect?

We can keep many of them from getting firearms legally and easily in stores. Data shows that we already are because of our laws. We want them getting guns on the black market and being limited with options and selection. Those are good things. Why would we want to make it easier for them?

Well, if they get their guns on the black market, kill a person or persons, then our detectives have to figure out who the murderer was because the ballistics bring them to a dead end. I don't think that's a good thing at all.

That’s interesting Ray... so would you want to get rid of BG checks, legally sell guns to anybody and everybody but include a registration of sorts so that if a gun was used in a crime we can trace it back to its purchaser?

 

[Slade3200]

Nothing is ever going to solve the problem of gun violence, all we can do is try and help in as many areas as we can. Background checks force criminals and high risk individuals to get guns from illegal means. This makes it harder and more expensive for them and limits their options. It also narrows things for law enforcement who want to fight the underground gun market.

If we had no BG checks and no gun Regs then all that goes away and anybody can buy anything from any store that offers it. I personally don’t think that helps a thing, It can only hurt

I don't think background checks do all that much. Most people who want to commit a crime for the first time don't want a weapon that can be traced back to them in most cases, unless it's a mass shooting where suicide is part of the plan.

For people not legally allowed to buy or own a firearm, straw buyers seems to be the problem there, and I don't think we do enough to those people who are buying weapons on behalf of a felon.

See you make the case for me. You say, Criminals don’t buy guns from stores because they don’t want it traced to them or they won’t pass a BG check. That’s a good thing. The fact that we have the ability to trace and do background checks is a deterrent from allowing them easy access to weapons. Push them to the black market and make it easier for law enforcement to fight the good fight. It means the laws are working

the point made background checks don't keep guns out of the hands of criminals just like making drugs illegal keep from people obtaining drugs keep us from having a drug epidemic
why is that simple fact so hard for your ignorance to understand

Nothing will keep guns out of the hands of criminals. It’s dumb to imply that anybody expects such things. But you surely aren’t suggesting we make it easier for them to get guns are you? Let them walk into any old store and buy whatever they want?? Tell me you aren’t promoting that.

we have a background check in place and I don't know one person that wants to eliminate the current system, as a matter of fact, it needs to be better inforced
so what's your argument are you claiming 2nd amendment advocates want to get rid of background checks
If you are going to make that claim you need to site who made it and no some unnamed troll doesn't count

Well several members in this thread who I have been debated want exactly that. Get ride of BG checks because they are unconstitutional. It is a very real position taken by the gunners

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

 

[Leo123]

Well several members in this thread who I have been debated want exactly that. Get ride of BG checks because they are unconstitutional. It is a very real position taken by the gunners

Being a Felon and owning or even possessing a gun is illegal yet, we hear every day how law enforcement catches these guys with guns. So much for BG check. In any case, these shootings seem to be continuing. Maybe we have a a societal moral problem. We need to ask ourselves why these people think it's OK to mass murder innocent people and fix what's wrong with our society. Before it's too late. That is the problem, not the guns.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I think those are all fair concerns. Does bi polar disqualify somebody, autism, PTSD soldiers? There are no easy answers so it will be a hearty debate. Problem is we can’t even get to the debate because the team partisans won’t let it get there.

What I’m spouting is not a utopian belief it is common sense regulations that any responsible society should be doing.

You are not going to keep criminals and the criminal mentally ill from obtaining firearms. There should be no debate. We already have laws against criminals owning firearms. Most people with actual mental illness are NOT given guns. These little perps can think for themselves and can decide what is right and what is wrong. That makes them perfectly mentally competent.

They're just rotters who have been taught by our liberal politicians and our liberal MSM to hate. No amount of gun control with cure this, the only cure is to reject leftist, Neo-Marxist bullshit and teach our children morals and values by MODELING good sexual relationships with heterosexual relationships and marriages with commitment that uphold family and societal values.

Like I already said it's not the guns it's government SUPPORT of fatherless families (especially in the 'black' community), support of little girls getting abortions when they should have NEVER allowed themselves to get pregnant in the first place, support and promotion of gender dysphoria, the notion that humans are destroying the Earth and on and on and on. WTF did you expect?

We can keep many of them from getting firearms legally and easily in stores. Data shows that we already are because of our laws. We want them getting guns on the black market and being limited with options and selection. Those are good things. Why would we want to make it easier for them?

Well, if they get their guns on the black market, kill a person or persons, then our detectives have to figure out who the murderer was because the ballistics bring them to a dead end. I don't think that's a good thing at all.

That’s interesting Ray... so would you want to get rid of BG checks, legally sell guns to anybody and everybody but include a registration of sorts so that if a gun was used in a crime we can trace it back to its purchaser?

No, I didn't say that. Just challenging your assertion that criminals buying guns on the black market is a good thing.

I'm okay with the way the rules are now. Background checks are similar to asking for an ID from young adults to make sure they are old enough to drink. Yes, they will find some way of getting alcohol if they really want it, but we don't promote it by allowing them to purchase it legally. However them purchasing it illegally is not a good thing either.

Until somebody can come up with a way to make a significant difference in our shooting problems in this country, I'm against any additional measures. Once again, until Ferguson, our violent and gun crime rate was on the decrease since the early 90's, so obviously we are doing something right.

If it's not broke, don't fix it.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Well several members in this thread who I have been debated want exactly that. Get ride of BG checks because they are unconstitutional. It is a very real position taken by the gunners

Being a Felon and owning or even possessing a gun is illegal yet, we hear every day how law enforcement catches these guys with guns. So much for BG check. In any case, these shootings seem to be continuing. Maybe we have a a societal moral problem. We need to ask ourselves why these people think it's OK to mass murder innocent people and fix what's wrong with our society. Before it's too late. That is the problem, not the guns.

Agreed. Our mass murder rate is proportional to taking God out of society. The two most dangerous people are those who don't fear death, and those who don't fear God. The most dangerous person is one who fears neither.

Perhaps instead of removing God from society, invite him back in. After all, you don't see these kinds of incidents in religious schools.

 

[Slade3200]

I think those are all fair concerns. Does bi polar disqualify somebody, autism, PTSD soldiers? There are no easy answers so it will be a hearty debate. Problem is we can’t even get to the debate because the team partisans won’t let it get there.

What I’m spouting is not a utopian belief it is common sense regulations that any responsible society should be doing.

You are not going to keep criminals and the criminal mentally ill from obtaining firearms. There should be no debate. We already have laws against criminals owning firearms. Most people with actual mental illness are NOT given guns. These little perps can think for themselves and can decide what is right and what is wrong. That makes them perfectly mentally competent.

They're just rotters who have been taught by our liberal politicians and our liberal MSM to hate. No amount of gun control with cure this, the only cure is to reject leftist, Neo-Marxist bullshit and teach our children morals and values by MODELING good sexual relationships with heterosexual relationships and marriages with commitment that uphold family and societal values.

Like I already said it's not the guns it's government SUPPORT of fatherless families (especially in the 'black' community), support of little girls getting abortions when they should have NEVER allowed themselves to get pregnant in the first place, support and promotion of gender dysphoria, the notion that humans are destroying the Earth and on and on and on. WTF did you expect?

We can keep many of them from getting firearms legally and easily in stores. Data shows that we already are because of our laws. We want them getting guns on the black market and being limited with options and selection. Those are good things. Why would we want to make it easier for them?

Well, if they get their guns on the black market, kill a person or persons, then our detectives have to figure out who the murderer was because the ballistics bring them to a dead end. I don't think that's a good thing at all.

That’s interesting Ray... so would you want to get rid of BG checks, legally sell guns to anybody and everybody but include a registration of sorts so that if a gun was used in a crime we can trace it back to its purchaser?

No, I didn't say that. Just challenging your assertion that criminals buying guns on the black market is a good thing.

I'm okay with the way the rules are now. Background checks are similar to asking for an ID from young adults to make sure they are old enough to drink. Yes, they will find some way of getting alcohol if they really want it, but we don't promote it by allowing them to purchase it legally. However them purchasing it illegally is not a good thing either.

Until somebody can come up with a way to make a significant difference in our shooting problems in this country, I'm against any additional measures. Once again, until Ferguson, our violent and gun crime rate was on the decrease since the early 90's, so obviously we are doing something right.

If it's not broke, don't fix it.

Ok then, if you support current laws then that is an acknowledgement that the laws are effective. I’m fine if you don’t want to go further, we all have different thresholds of when enough is enough. Just don’t get yourself into the absolutist arguments saying that regulations are useless and unconstitutional. I’ve been debating a few that are saying that and you jumped in defending them.

 

[Slade3200]

Well several members in this thread who I have been debated want exactly that. Get ride of BG checks because they are unconstitutional. It is a very real position taken by the gunners

Being a Felon and owning or even possessing a gun is illegal yet, we hear every day how law enforcement catches these guys with guns. So much for BG check. In any case, these shootings seem to be continuing. Maybe we have a a societal moral problem. We need to ask ourselves why these people think it's OK to mass murder innocent people and fix what's wrong with our society. Before it's too late. That is the problem, not the guns.

Both are problems and both can be addressed

 

[Slade3200]

Well several members in this thread who I have been debated want exactly that. Get ride of BG checks because they are unconstitutional. It is a very real position taken by the gunners

Being a Felon and owning or even possessing a gun is illegal yet, we hear every day how law enforcement catches these guys with guns. So much for BG check. In any case, these shootings seem to be continuing. Maybe we have a a societal moral problem. We need to ask ourselves why these people think it's OK to mass murder innocent people and fix what's wrong with our society. Before it's too late. That is the problem, not the guns.

Agreed. Our mass murder rate is proportional to taking God out of society. The two most dangerous people are those who don't fear death, and those who don't fear God. The most dangerous person is one who fears neither.

Perhaps instead of removing God from society, invite him back in. After all, you don't see these kinds of incidents in religious schools.

You’re right, that’s where all the rape and molestation is

 

[Slade3200]

Well several members in this thread who I have been debated want exactly that. Get ride of BG checks because they are unconstitutional. It is a very real position taken by the gunners

Being a Felon and owning or even possessing a gun is illegal yet, we hear every day how law enforcement catches these guys with guns. So much for BG check. In any case, these shootings seem to be continuing. Maybe we have a a societal moral problem. We need to ask ourselves why these people think it's OK to mass murder innocent people and fix what's wrong with our society. Before it's too late. That is the problem, not the guns.

Right, because some still get guns. Do you really think there are none that don’t get guns for fear of getting caught and going back to prison? Don’t you think it’s a good thing that if they are caught with a gun they do get arrested? So a law not allowing them to have guns is a good thing... right?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You are not going to keep criminals and the criminal mentally ill from obtaining firearms. There should be no debate. We already have laws against criminals owning firearms. Most people with actual mental illness are NOT given guns. These little perps can think for themselves and can decide what is right and what is wrong. That makes them perfectly mentally competent.

They're just rotters who have been taught by our liberal politicians and our liberal MSM to hate. No amount of gun control with cure this, the only cure is to reject leftist, Neo-Marxist bullshit and teach our children morals and values by MODELING good sexual relationships with heterosexual relationships and marriages with commitment that uphold family and societal values.

Like I already said it's not the guns it's government SUPPORT of fatherless families (especially in the 'black' community), support of little girls getting abortions when they should have NEVER allowed themselves to get pregnant in the first place, support and promotion of gender dysphoria, the notion that humans are destroying the Earth and on and on and on. WTF did you expect?

We can keep many of them from getting firearms legally and easily in stores. Data shows that we already are because of our laws. We want them getting guns on the black market and being limited with options and selection. Those are good things. Why would we want to make it easier for them?

Well, if they get their guns on the black market, kill a person or persons, then our detectives have to figure out who the murderer was because the ballistics bring them to a dead end. I don't think that's a good thing at all.

That’s interesting Ray... so would you want to get rid of BG checks, legally sell guns to anybody and everybody but include a registration of sorts so that if a gun was used in a crime we can trace it back to its purchaser?

No, I didn't say that. Just challenging your assertion that criminals buying guns on the black market is a good thing.

I'm okay with the way the rules are now. Background checks are similar to asking for an ID from young adults to make sure they are old enough to drink. Yes, they will find some way of getting alcohol if they really want it, but we don't promote it by allowing them to purchase it legally. However them purchasing it illegally is not a good thing either.

Until somebody can come up with a way to make a significant difference in our shooting problems in this country, I'm against any additional measures. Once again, until Ferguson, our violent and gun crime rate was on the decrease since the early 90's, so obviously we are doing something right.

If it's not broke, don't fix it.

Ok then, if you support current laws then that is an acknowledgement that the laws are effective. I’m fine if you don’t want to go further, we all have different thresholds of when enough is enough. Just don’t get yourself into the absolutist arguments saying that regulations are useless and unconstitutional. I’ve been debating a few that are saying that and you jumped in defending them.

Given the fact we live in a country where anybody can get anything, are the laws really effective? If they were, there would be no mass shootings or murder of any kind from felons.

As we already know, felons do find a way to get guns. So how effective are our gun background checks? Then there are those who are not felons, passed all these background checks, and decide to purchase firearms the legal way and commit a mass murder.

 

[Slade3200]

We can keep many of them from getting firearms legally and easily in stores. Data shows that we already are because of our laws. We want them getting guns on the black market and being limited with options and selection. Those are good things. Why would we want to make it easier for them?

Well, if they get their guns on the black market, kill a person or persons, then our detectives have to figure out who the murderer was because the ballistics bring them to a dead end. I don't think that's a good thing at all.

That’s interesting Ray... so would you want to get rid of BG checks, legally sell guns to anybody and everybody but include a registration of sorts so that if a gun was used in a crime we can trace it back to its purchaser?

No, I didn't say that. Just challenging your assertion that criminals buying guns on the black market is a good thing.

I'm okay with the way the rules are now. Background checks are similar to asking for an ID from young adults to make sure they are old enough to drink. Yes, they will find some way of getting alcohol if they really want it, but we don't promote it by allowing them to purchase it legally. However them purchasing it illegally is not a good thing either.

Until somebody can come up with a way to make a significant difference in our shooting problems in this country, I'm against any additional measures. Once again, until Ferguson, our violent and gun crime rate was on the decrease since the early 90's, so obviously we are doing something right.

If it's not broke, don't fix it.

Ok then, if you support current laws then that is an acknowledgement that the laws are effective. I’m fine if you don’t want to go further, we all have different thresholds of when enough is enough. Just don’t get yourself into the absolutist arguments saying that regulations are useless and unconstitutional. I’ve been debating a few that are saying that and you jumped in defending them.

Given the fact we live in a country where anybody can get anything, are the laws really effective? If they were, there would be no mass shootings or murder of any kind from felons.

As we already know, felons do find a way to get guns. So how effective are our gun background checks? Then there are those who are not felons, passed all these background checks, and decide to purchase firearms the legal way and commit a mass murder.

Well then why even have laws to begin with? Let’s just get rid if drinking age, drivers licenses and everything else that we require law abiding citizens to do. Why even have speed limits? I mean if others are able to break the rules and still do those things then there’s no point in regulating anybody. Right?

You gonna run with that argument Ray?

 

[Rustic]

Well, if they get their guns on the black market, kill a person or persons, then our detectives have to figure out who the murderer was because the ballistics bring them to a dead end. I don't think that's a good thing at all.

That’s interesting Ray... so would you want to get rid of BG checks, legally sell guns to anybody and everybody but include a registration of sorts so that if a gun was used in a crime we can trace it back to its purchaser?

No, I didn't say that. Just challenging your assertion that criminals buying guns on the black market is a good thing.

I'm okay with the way the rules are now. Background checks are similar to asking for an ID from young adults to make sure they are old enough to drink. Yes, they will find some way of getting alcohol if they really want it, but we don't promote it by allowing them to purchase it legally. However them purchasing it illegally is not a good thing either.

Until somebody can come up with a way to make a significant difference in our shooting problems in this country, I'm against any additional measures. Once again, until Ferguson, our violent and gun crime rate was on the decrease since the early 90's, so obviously we are doing something right.

If it's not broke, don't fix it.

Ok then, if you support current laws then that is an acknowledgement that the laws are effective. I’m fine if you don’t want to go further, we all have different thresholds of when enough is enough. Just don’t get yourself into the absolutist arguments saying that regulations are useless and unconstitutional. I’ve been debating a few that are saying that and you jumped in defending them.

Given the fact we live in a country where anybody can get anything, are the laws really effective? If they were, there would be no mass shootings or murder of any kind from felons.

As we already know, felons do find a way to get guns. So how effective are our gun background checks? Then there are those who are not felons, passed all these background checks, and decide to purchase firearms the legal way and commit a mass murder.

Well then why even have laws to begin with? Let’s just get rid if drinking age, drivers licenses and everything else that we require law abiding citizens to do. Why even have speed limits? I mean if others are able to break the rules and still do those things then there’s no point in regulating anybody. Right?

You gonna run with that argument Ray?

Lol
No one has a right to drink or to vehicle ownership. So what you speak of is irrelevant you stupid motherfucker
Firearm ownership is an absolute right, less someone fucks it up for themselves... fact

 

[Slade3200]

Thoughts?

There could have been three more mass shootings if these men weren't stopped, authorities say — CNN

 

[Slade3200]

That’s interesting Ray... so would you want to get rid of BG checks, legally sell guns to anybody and everybody but include a registration of sorts so that if a gun was used in a crime we can trace it back to its purchaser?

No, I didn't say that. Just challenging your assertion that criminals buying guns on the black market is a good thing.

I'm okay with the way the rules are now. Background checks are similar to asking for an ID from young adults to make sure they are old enough to drink. Yes, they will find some way of getting alcohol if they really want it, but we don't promote it by allowing them to purchase it legally. However them purchasing it illegally is not a good thing either.

Until somebody can come up with a way to make a significant difference in our shooting problems in this country, I'm against any additional measures. Once again, until Ferguson, our violent and gun crime rate was on the decrease since the early 90's, so obviously we are doing something right.

If it's not broke, don't fix it.

Ok then, if you support current laws then that is an acknowledgement that the laws are effective. I’m fine if you don’t want to go further, we all have different thresholds of when enough is enough. Just don’t get yourself into the absolutist arguments saying that regulations are useless and unconstitutional. I’ve been debating a few that are saying that and you jumped in defending them.

Given the fact we live in a country where anybody can get anything, are the laws really effective? If they were, there would be no mass shootings or murder of any kind from felons.

As we already know, felons do find a way to get guns. So how effective are our gun background checks? Then there are those who are not felons, passed all these background checks, and decide to purchase firearms the legal way and commit a mass murder.

Well then why even have laws to begin with? Let’s just get rid if drinking age, drivers licenses and everything else that we require law abiding citizens to do. Why even have speed limits? I mean if others are able to break the rules and still do those things then there’s no point in regulating anybody. Right?

You gonna run with that argument Ray?

Lol
No one has a right to drink or to vehicle ownership. So what you speak of is irrelevant you stupid motherfucker
Firearm ownership is an absolute right, less someone fucks it up for themselves... fact

You are such a fool. I’ve explained a dozen times now how weak that “rights” diversion you just used is. Effectiveness has nothing to do with rights. Would you be willing to say that gun control is effective however it’s illegal because it infringes on our rights?

 

[Rustic]

No, I didn't say that. Just challenging your assertion that criminals buying guns on the black market is a good thing.

I'm okay with the way the rules are now. Background checks are similar to asking for an ID from young adults to make sure they are old enough to drink. Yes, they will find some way of getting alcohol if they really want it, but we don't promote it by allowing them to purchase it legally. However them purchasing it illegally is not a good thing either.

Until somebody can come up with a way to make a significant difference in our shooting problems in this country, I'm against any additional measures. Once again, until Ferguson, our violent and gun crime rate was on the decrease since the early 90's, so obviously we are doing something right.

If it's not broke, don't fix it.

Ok then, if you support current laws then that is an acknowledgement that the laws are effective. I’m fine if you don’t want to go further, we all have different thresholds of when enough is enough. Just don’t get yourself into the absolutist arguments saying that regulations are useless and unconstitutional. I’ve been debating a few that are saying that and you jumped in defending them.

Given the fact we live in a country where anybody can get anything, are the laws really effective? If they were, there would be no mass shootings or murder of any kind from felons.

As we already know, felons do find a way to get guns. So how effective are our gun background checks? Then there are those who are not felons, passed all these background checks, and decide to purchase firearms the legal way and commit a mass murder.

Well then why even have laws to begin with? Let’s just get rid if drinking age, drivers licenses and everything else that we require law abiding citizens to do. Why even have speed limits? I mean if others are able to break the rules and still do those things then there’s no point in regulating anybody. Right?

You gonna run with that argument Ray?

Lol
No one has a right to drink or to vehicle ownership. So what you speak of is irrelevant you stupid motherfucker
Firearm ownership is an absolute right, less someone fucks it up for themselves... fact

You are such a fool. I’ve explained a dozen times now how weak that “rights” diversion you just used is. Effectiveness has nothing to do with rights. Would you be willing to say that gun control is effective however it’s illegal because it infringes on our rights?

The Frivolous gun control laws you speak of are like putting a Band-Aid on a broken arm, it looks like you’re doing something but you’re making things much worse.