Gun culture or parenting culture?

[BULLDOG]

What was the cop supposed to do?

IMO, the cop was too quick on the trigger since, IIRC, the kid didn't piont the gun at him or anyone. Now, if the kid was pointing the gun at a person, then immediate shooting is justified.

He might have been, but that doesn't mean he did anything wrong or illegal.

If at all possible, you don't wait until somebody is pointing a gun at you before you fire. If you perceive a threat of your life, then you have the right to stop that threat with deadly force yourself.

So, the fact I know you are armed is justification to shoot you? I think not.

No, pulling it out while in front of a police officer is.

Wasn't it already out? Sorry, but the police officer was too quick to shoot. He had cover and the "suspect" wasn't pointing the gun at him. He had time to take control of the situation.

Three experienced police officers who testified agreed the situation was mishandled: http://www.gq.com/story/tamir-rice-story

Nonetheless, extremists are all about "all or nothing". I know the anti-gun, anti-police mob is like that. I hope you aren't likewise. There are over 750,000 LEOs in this nation. Mistakes happen, but they shouldn't be covered up. They also shouldn't be extrapolated by a bunch of anti-gun and/or anti-cop assholes to mean one mistake applies to all concerned.

It's hard not to extrapolate when the so called GOOD cops cover for the bad ones. Covering up and excusing such behavior is just as bad as doing it.

 

[Divine Wind]

IMO, the cop was too quick on the trigger since, IIRC, the kid didn't piont the gun at him or anyone. Now, if the kid was pointing the gun at a person, then immediate shooting is justified.

He might have been, but that doesn't mean he did anything wrong or illegal.

If at all possible, you don't wait until somebody is pointing a gun at you before you fire. If you perceive a threat of your life, then you have the right to stop that threat with deadly force yourself.

So, the fact I know you are armed is justification to shoot you? I think not.

No, pulling it out while in front of a police officer is.

Wasn't it already out? Sorry, but the police officer was too quick to shoot. He had cover and the "suspect" wasn't pointing the gun at him. He had time to take control of the situation.

Three experienced police officers who testified agreed the situation was mishandled: How to Make a Police Shooting Disappear: The Tamir Rice Story

Nonetheless, extremists are all about "all or nothing". I know the anti-gun, anti-police mob is like that. I hope you aren't likewise. There are over 750,000 LEOs in this nation. Mistakes happen, but they shouldn't be covered up. They also shouldn't be extrapolated by a bunch of anti-gun and/or anti-cop assholes to mean one mistake applies to all concerned.

It's hard not to extrapolate when the so called GOOD cops cover for the bad ones. Covering up and excusing such behavior is just as bad as doing it.

If you read the linked article, then you'll know they didn't.

 

[BULLDOG]

He might have been, but that doesn't mean he did anything wrong or illegal.

If at all possible, you don't wait until somebody is pointing a gun at you before you fire. If you perceive a threat of your life, then you have the right to stop that threat with deadly force yourself.

So, the fact I know you are armed is justification to shoot you? I think not.

No, pulling it out while in front of a police officer is.

Wasn't it already out? Sorry, but the police officer was too quick to shoot. He had cover and the "suspect" wasn't pointing the gun at him. He had time to take control of the situation.

Three experienced police officers who testified agreed the situation was mishandled: How to Make a Police Shooting Disappear: The Tamir Rice Story

Nonetheless, extremists are all about "all or nothing". I know the anti-gun, anti-police mob is like that. I hope you aren't likewise. There are over 750,000 LEOs in this nation. Mistakes happen, but they shouldn't be covered up. They also shouldn't be extrapolated by a bunch of anti-gun and/or anti-cop assholes to mean one mistake applies to all concerned.

It's hard not to extrapolate when the so called GOOD cops cover for the bad ones. Covering up and excusing such behavior is just as bad as doing it.

If you read the linked article, then you'll know they didn't.

If they didn't in this case, I congratulate them. Sadly, you don't see that too often.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Jamaica's murder rate climbed significantly after implementing gun control.

So, I don't think that gun control does much of anything.

However, gun control has historically been used by tyrants, they disarmed Natives, and Black slaves in the USA, while they disarmed Holocaust Jews in Nazi Germany, the Islamic Turks disarmed the Armenians during the Armenian genocide, the British disarmed India during their India genocides, and Soviets disarmed citizens too, as did Communist China, and countless others.

So, it seems that gun control does nothing but empower tyrants.

 

[BULLDOG]

Jamaica's murder rate climbed significantly after implementing gun control.

So, I don't think that gun control does much of anything.

However, gun control has historically been used by tyrants, they disarmed Natives, and Black slaves in the USA, while they disarmed Holocaust Jews in Nazi Germany, the Islamic Turks disarmed the Armenians during the Armenian genocide, the British disarmed India during their India genocides, and Soviets disarmed citizens too, as did Communist China, and countless others.

So, it seems that gun control does nothing but empower tyrants.

So you think reasonable gun control is the same as disarming the country. Typical gun nut.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Jamaica's murder rate climbed significantly after implementing gun control.

So, I don't think that gun control does much of anything.

However, gun control has historically been used by tyrants, they disarmed Natives, and Black slaves in the USA, while they disarmed Holocaust Jews in Nazi Germany, the Islamic Turks disarmed the Armenians during the Armenian genocide, the British disarmed India during their India genocides, and Soviets disarmed citizens too, as did Communist China, and countless others.

So, it seems that gun control does nothing but empower tyrants.

So you think reasonable gun control is the same as disarming the country. Typical gun nut.

I actually don't own any guns, as of yet.

So, no I'm no gun nut.

However, I fail to see any correlation between gun control, and decreased murders.

Actually, if we look at gun ownership by country, if anything the exact opposite pattern occurs, with murder being higher in the nations with less guns on the whole.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No, pulling it out while in front of a police officer is.

Wasn't it already out? Sorry, but the police officer was too quick to shoot. He had cover and the "suspect" wasn't pointing the gun at him. He had time to take control of the situation.

Three experienced police officers who testified agreed the situation was mishandled: How to Make a Police Shooting Disappear: The Tamir Rice Story

Nonetheless, extremists are all about "all or nothing". I know the anti-gun, anti-police mob is like that. I hope you aren't likewise. There are over 750,000 LEOs in this nation. Mistakes happen, but they shouldn't be covered up. They also shouldn't be extrapolated by a bunch of anti-gun and/or anti-cop assholes to mean one mistake applies to all concerned.

It's less a question of if it could have been handled better than the question of whether the officer did anything wrong or illegal. The jury found he didn't with the aid of the video tape.

The gun was out but not lifted at the officer yet. As soon as the officer seen the gun, he shot.

OJ and Robert Blake were found guiltless too.

OJ and Blake didn't have a video of what took place. The officer did.

A jury does not rule base on their own personal likes or dislikes. A jury does not decide somebody is guilty if they could have done something different. A jury rules whether any laws were broken or not. When a suspect starts pulling a gun on a police officer and that officer responds with deadly force, that is completely legal for police officers and armed citizens alike.

This discussion reminds me of our CCW class. The instructor repeatedly made a point that no matter how good of a shot you are, it's different when it's your life on the line. You can be a good shot shooting at cardboard cutouts of people or pop cans because they are not shooting back. When a gun is pointed right back at you, adrenaline starts to flow, your mind races, you only have a second to think, you could be dead the next second.

Even with the best training, nobody is actually prepared for a real gun fight.

You are welcome to shoot black kids carrying BB guns and taking your chances with the jury.

The fact remains, those 3 experienced police officers agreed the situation was mishandled.

FWIW, in my CCW class, the point was made that shooting someone would change your life, the implication being not for the better. Defend yourself against attack, yes, but avoiding that situation is better. Good luck and I truly hope not to see you in the newspapers.

I'll be fine; haven't shot anybody yet. And yes, my father (who spent a year in the Korean war) told me the exact same thing. Killing somebody is not like what you see in the movies. Once you kill somebody, it changes your life forever unless you're some kind of nut. And I think it probably is tenfold when you kill a 12 year old right or wrong.

 

[BULLDOG]

Jamaica's murder rate climbed significantly after implementing gun control.

So, I don't think that gun control does much of anything.

However, gun control has historically been used by tyrants, they disarmed Natives, and Black slaves in the USA, while they disarmed Holocaust Jews in Nazi Germany, the Islamic Turks disarmed the Armenians during the Armenian genocide, the British disarmed India during their India genocides, and Soviets disarmed citizens too, as did Communist China, and countless others.

So, it seems that gun control does nothing but empower tyrants.

So you think reasonable gun control is the same as disarming the country. Typical gun nut.

I actually don't own any guns, as of yet.

So, no I'm no gun nut.

However, I fail to see any correlation between gun control, and decreased murders.

Actually, if we look at gun ownership by country, if anything the exact opposite pattern occurs, with murder being higher in the nations with less guns on the whole.

So you aren't one of those cowards that are too afraid to leave home without a gun? Good for you.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

My county has the lowest crime rate in New York State, it's probably one of the lowest crime rate counties in the entire country.

So, no, I don't need a gun for protection.

But, if I lived in a dangerous neighborhood, I'd definitely get a gun.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Jamaica's murder rate climbed significantly after implementing gun control.

So, I don't think that gun control does much of anything.

However, gun control has historically been used by tyrants, they disarmed Natives, and Black slaves in the USA, while they disarmed Holocaust Jews in Nazi Germany, the Islamic Turks disarmed the Armenians during the Armenian genocide, the British disarmed India during their India genocides, and Soviets disarmed citizens too, as did Communist China, and countless others.

So, it seems that gun control does nothing but empower tyrants.

So you think reasonable gun control is the same as disarming the country. Typical gun nut.

I actually don't own any guns, as of yet.

So, no I'm no gun nut.

However, I fail to see any correlation between gun control, and decreased murders.

Actually, if we look at gun ownership by country, if anything the exact opposite pattern occurs, with murder being higher in the nations with less guns on the whole.

So you aren't one of those cowards that are too afraid to leave home without a gun? Good for you.

What evidence do you have for gun control doing much of anything?

Gun control freaks typically point to Britain as a gun control success.

But, Britain doesn't have the lowest gun ownership rate in Europe, actually Lithuania does.

Lithuania is #1 in Europe for suicide, and #2 in Europe for murders.

Besides, if you look closely at the data, a lot of the murder rates of Western Europe actually declined quicker than Britain's did since the 1990's, when they implemented gun control.

Actually even the USA's murder rate declined quicker in the 2000's than Britain did, just because the USA already had a much higher murder rate (Which keep in my is elevated largely due to Blacks in the USA, and to a lesser extent Hispanics)

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Lithuanians, and Latvians are close blood brothers, both are genetically, and linguistically very close.

Yet, Lithuania is quite higher than Latvia in both suicide, and in murder.... .But, Lithuania has also quite lower gun ownership.

The big question is "How come?"

Why don't gun control freaks ever look at Lithuania as a gun control success?

Oh, okay, Britain must be it, the gun control success.

Didn't look too successful during those riots, now did it?

 

[2aguy]

Jamaica's murder rate climbed significantly after implementing gun control.

So, I don't think that gun control does much of anything.

However, gun control has historically been used by tyrants, they disarmed Natives, and Black slaves in the USA, while they disarmed Holocaust Jews in Nazi Germany, the Islamic Turks disarmed the Armenians during the Armenian genocide, the British disarmed India during their India genocides, and Soviets disarmed citizens too, as did Communist China, and countless others.

So, it seems that gun control does nothing but empower tyrants.

So you think reasonable gun control is the same as disarming the country. Typical gun nut.

And yet you throw out the words "reasonable gun control" but are afraid to name what you mean. And then, after not naming what you think is Reasonable Gun control...you call someone a derogatory name....

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

2 of Europe's most prolific serial killers came from the Gun control utopia of the Soviet Union.

- Andrei Chikatilo who killed about 52 + without a gun.

- Anatoly Onoprienko who killed about 52 with a gun.

 

[2aguy]

Jamaica's murder rate climbed significantly after implementing gun control.

So, I don't think that gun control does much of anything.

However, gun control has historically been used by tyrants, they disarmed Natives, and Black slaves in the USA, while they disarmed Holocaust Jews in Nazi Germany, the Islamic Turks disarmed the Armenians during the Armenian genocide, the British disarmed India during their India genocides, and Soviets disarmed citizens too, as did Communist China, and countless others.

So, it seems that gun control does nothing but empower tyrants.

So you think reasonable gun control is the same as disarming the country. Typical gun nut.

I actually don't own any guns, as of yet.

So, no I'm no gun nut.

However, I fail to see any correlation between gun control, and decreased murders.

Actually, if we look at gun ownership by country, if anything the exact opposite pattern occurs, with murder being higher in the nations with less guns on the whole.

So you aren't one of those cowards that are too afraid to leave home without a gun? Good for you.

And you call cowardice where it is actually simply being prepared. People use seat belts, fire extinguishers and burglar alarms and those who carry a gun with them put it on their belt with the same emotion as they do their cell phone and with the same emotion they use when they lock their front door when they leave......

that you call them cowards is actually psychological projection.....you are the coward, yet you call others coward to cover for it...

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

It's time to talk about reasonable hammer control, because these Ukrainian serial killers used hammers in bags to kill 21 people.

Dnepropetrovsk maniacs - Wikipedia

It's time to talk about reasonable truck control, because this Islamic terrorist used a truck to kill 86 people.

2016 Nice attack - Wikipedia

 

[2aguy]

It's time to talk about reasonable hammer control, because these Ukrainian serial killers used hammers in bags to kill 21 people.

Dnepropetrovsk maniacs - Wikipedia

It's time to talk about reasonable truck control, because this Islamic terrorist used a truck to kill 86 people.

2016 Nice attack - Wikipedia

Notice Bulldog doesn't state what he believes reasonable gun control is? We have done that dance and shown everytime that each new law he pushes fails to stop criminals or mass shooters, and simply acts as a way to make a criminal out of law abiding citizens over process crimes.......

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

It's proven by data taken for centuries that Medieval Europe had a higher murder rate than present Europe.

But, how can this be? This was before the invention of the gun....

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It's time to talk about reasonable hammer control, because these Ukrainian serial killers used hammers in bags to kill 21 people.

Dnepropetrovsk maniacs - Wikipedia

It's time to talk about reasonable truck control, because this Islamic terrorist used a truck to kill 86 people.

2016 Nice attack - Wikipedia

UK police behind effort to ban knives to end ‘knife violence’

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

You don't need guns to commit genocide, even.

Ukrainians in Wolyn were successfully disarmed, and they used hacksaws to cut Poles in half, or even burned Polish peoples villages to kill Poles.

It's time to talk about reasonable hammer control, because these Ukrainian serial killers used hammers in bags to kill 21 people.

Dnepropetrovsk maniacs - Wikipedia

It's time to talk about reasonable truck control, because this Islamic terrorist used a truck to kill 86 people.

2016 Nice attack - Wikipedia

UK police behind effort to ban knives to end ‘knife violence’

Will Butchers in the UK have to cut meat with spoons?

 

[2aguy]

It's time to talk about reasonable hammer control, because these Ukrainian serial killers used hammers in bags to kill 21 people.

Dnepropetrovsk maniacs - Wikipedia

It's time to talk about reasonable truck control, because this Islamic terrorist used a truck to kill 86 people.

2016 Nice attack - Wikipedia

UK police behind effort to ban knives to end ‘knife violence’

They failed....

Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

The Met Police's figures showed there were 2,544 gun crime offences from April 2016 to April 2017 compared to 1,793 offences from 2015 until 2016.

Knife crime also increased by 24% with 12,074 recorded offences from 2016 to 2017.
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