Gun free Britain? Murders going to hit 10 year high...

[frigidweirdo]

You do understand statistics I assume?
A small increase in numbers from a small base will be a large increase in percentage.
E.g. if you have five murders in one year...then six murders the following year...what is the percentage increase?
I count 8 firearm deaths in the UK in the year to March 2017.

Homicide in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

Yes...you focus on gun murder which has always, always been low in Britain even when they had access to guns.....it was always lower than here...you focus on that because you have to hide the fact that criminals in Britain are getting more guns...illegal guns, and they are using them for crime....currently, they are not using them for murder....but they are getting more guns and using them in increasing levels for crime against unarmed civilians....with a police force hamstrung by policies straight from our democrat party play book....cut manpower, cut the money, cripple them with P.C. policies....

"even when they had access to guns", like they don't have access to guns.

We've done this before so many fucking times. THEY HAVE GUNS.

What's DIFFERENT is that access is LIMITED and RESTRICTED whereas in the US it isn't.

The issue here is that there are more guns than before, the Yardies brought in guns for the first real time. Gun murders WENT UP.

Homicide - Office for National Statistics

You can look on this interactive map and see. April 2002 to March 2003 was the highest murder rate. It got up to 1.7 murders per 100,000 people. Massively lower than the US's rate. This is for England and Wales rather than the UK.

By April 2014-March 2015 this has dropped to 0.9, nearly half.

That's with guns being in the country. So why did the murder rate go down?

Better policing, the left wing Labour Party increased spending on the police force.

You know what's changed since then? The right wing Tory Party reducing spending on policing.

The murder rate is going up. But by 2017 it was 10.7.

Homicide in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

So, the murder rate fluctuates, and it often fluctuates based on police spending and the like. But the UK is more likely to deal with the problems from every aspect, social, economic etc, whereas in the US politicians ignore all the problems, and people like you do too.

The regular point that 2aguy makes is that gun laws don't prevent gun crimes 100% so should be scrapped.
The answer just writes itself.
Why have drug laws, abortion laws, immigration laws...?

The point that 2Aguy makes is that he's an absolute fraud and "fake news" reporter.

No, gun laws don't stop things 100%, who said they do?

The UK's murder rate is 4 time or more lower than the US's. A rise in crime is inevitable as is a drop in crime at other times. That's what happens in life.

The fraud is trying to claim that a rise is worse than a drop in crime and murders, REGARDLESS of what the rate is in the first place. This is just ridiculous.

to repeat your point…

No, gun laws don't stop things 100%, who said they do?

The UK's murder rate is 4 time or more lower than the US's. A rise in crime is inevitable as is a drop in crime at other times. That's what happens in life.

2Aguy's attitude is, if they don't stop gun crime by 100% then there's no point in having those gun laws.

 

[candycorn]

2Aguy's attitude is, if they don't stop gun crime by 100% then there's no point in having those gun laws.

Correct.

 

[2aguy]

Yes...you focus on gun murder which has always, always been low in Britain even when they had access to guns.....it was always lower than here...you focus on that because you have to hide the fact that criminals in Britain are getting more guns...illegal guns, and they are using them for crime....currently, they are not using them for murder....but they are getting more guns and using them in increasing levels for crime against unarmed civilians....with a police force hamstrung by policies straight from our democrat party play book....cut manpower, cut the money, cripple them with P.C. policies....

"even when they had access to guns", like they don't have access to guns.

We've done this before so many fucking times. THEY HAVE GUNS.

What's DIFFERENT is that access is LIMITED and RESTRICTED whereas in the US it isn't.

The issue here is that there are more guns than before, the Yardies brought in guns for the first real time. Gun murders WENT UP.

Homicide - Office for National Statistics

You can look on this interactive map and see. April 2002 to March 2003 was the highest murder rate. It got up to 1.7 murders per 100,000 people. Massively lower than the US's rate. This is for England and Wales rather than the UK.

By April 2014-March 2015 this has dropped to 0.9, nearly half.

That's with guns being in the country. So why did the murder rate go down?

Better policing, the left wing Labour Party increased spending on the police force.

You know what's changed since then? The right wing Tory Party reducing spending on policing.

The murder rate is going up. But by 2017 it was 10.7.

Homicide in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

So, the murder rate fluctuates, and it often fluctuates based on police spending and the like. But the UK is more likely to deal with the problems from every aspect, social, economic etc, whereas in the US politicians ignore all the problems, and people like you do too.

The regular point that 2aguy makes is that gun laws don't prevent gun crimes 100% so should be scrapped.
The answer just writes itself.
Why have drug laws, abortion laws, immigration laws...?

The point that 2Aguy makes is that he's an absolute fraud and "fake news" reporter.

No, gun laws don't stop things 100%, who said they do?

The UK's murder rate is 4 time or more lower than the US's. A rise in crime is inevitable as is a drop in crime at other times. That's what happens in life.

The fraud is trying to claim that a rise is worse than a drop in crime and murders, REGARDLESS of what the rate is in the first place. This is just ridiculous.

to repeat your point…

No, gun laws don't stop things 100%, who said they do?

The UK's murder rate is 4 time or more lower than the US's. A rise in crime is inevitable as is a drop in crime at other times. That's what happens in life.

2Aguy's attitude is, if they don't stop gun crime by 100% then there's no point in having those gun laws.

No.... you are a slow person so you don't understand very much of anything.

The entire point is that taking guns away from law abiding people does not decrease the gun crime rate....as Britain demonstrates....

That law abiding people own and carry guns does not increase the gun crime rate, as America shows............

Criminals drive the crime rate, and locking them up, lowers the crime rate...as America showed in the 1990s.....

 

[frigidweirdo]

"even when they had access to guns", like they don't have access to guns.

We've done this before so many fucking times. THEY HAVE GUNS.

What's DIFFERENT is that access is LIMITED and RESTRICTED whereas in the US it isn't.

The issue here is that there are more guns than before, the Yardies brought in guns for the first real time. Gun murders WENT UP.

Homicide - Office for National Statistics

You can look on this interactive map and see. April 2002 to March 2003 was the highest murder rate. It got up to 1.7 murders per 100,000 people. Massively lower than the US's rate. This is for England and Wales rather than the UK.

By April 2014-March 2015 this has dropped to 0.9, nearly half.

That's with guns being in the country. So why did the murder rate go down?

Better policing, the left wing Labour Party increased spending on the police force.

You know what's changed since then? The right wing Tory Party reducing spending on policing.

The murder rate is going up. But by 2017 it was 10.7.

Homicide in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

So, the murder rate fluctuates, and it often fluctuates based on police spending and the like. But the UK is more likely to deal with the problems from every aspect, social, economic etc, whereas in the US politicians ignore all the problems, and people like you do too.

The regular point that 2aguy makes is that gun laws don't prevent gun crimes 100% so should be scrapped.
The answer just writes itself.
Why have drug laws, abortion laws, immigration laws...?

The point that 2Aguy makes is that he's an absolute fraud and "fake news" reporter.

No, gun laws don't stop things 100%, who said they do?

The UK's murder rate is 4 time or more lower than the US's. A rise in crime is inevitable as is a drop in crime at other times. That's what happens in life.

The fraud is trying to claim that a rise is worse than a drop in crime and murders, REGARDLESS of what the rate is in the first place. This is just ridiculous.

to repeat your point…

No, gun laws don't stop things 100%, who said they do?

The UK's murder rate is 4 time or more lower than the US's. A rise in crime is inevitable as is a drop in crime at other times. That's what happens in life.

2Aguy's attitude is, if they don't stop gun crime by 100% then there's no point in having those gun laws.

No.... you are a slow person so you don't understand very much of anything.

The entire point is that taking guns away from law abiding people does not decrease the gun crime rate....as Britain demonstrates....

That law abiding people own and carry guns does not increase the gun crime rate, as America shows............

Criminals drive the crime rate, and locking them up, lowers the crime rate...as America showed in the 1990s.....

Ah, insults. Remember what I said about insults?

 

[JoeB131]

Funny when I told you they use a different methodology for defining murder you scoffed. but now you use the very argument you dismissed

Not at all... there's really only one way to define murder. You got a dead body and someone killed him... everyone defines that the same way.

But the US doesn't call it rape until fluids are exchanged, while the Brits call any clumsy groping a rape.

Most of us don't give a flying or any other kind of fuck about the UK and their boot licking monarch worshipers but you control freaks seem to love the UK so much you want to be just like them

YOu mean, when we see something they do that works, um, yeah, we should totally try that.

Gun control works in the UK. They have less murder, so little crime they can actually investigate the little stuff our cops ignore, it's safe to go out on the street at night....

But man, every time we have a mass shooting, TwoTinyGuy gets out here and tells us how it's just awful that the London has a quarter of the number of murders Chicago has with three times as many people.

 

[JoeB131]

The entire point is that taking guns away from law abiding people does not decrease the gun crime rate....as Britain demonstrates....

That law abiding people own and carry guns does not increase the gun crime rate, as America shows............

Again- USA- 15,000 gun murders a year.
UK - 48 gun murders a year.

Someone has figured this out, and it ain't us, Two Tiny Guy.

This isn't complicated. When you take guns away from everyone, the bad guys can't get them. They just aren't available.

 

[JoeB131]

We left Europe, and rebelled against England for a reason. We didn't want to be subjects controlled by ROYALTY. Today liberal/progressives want to make our government all powerful, and like royalty. They demand government solutions for everything. That is why they want to remove the Second Amendment, and our Natural Right to defend ourselves.

Um, guy, who is going to defend us from you gun nuts? Other gun nuts.

I don't worry about the government coming to get me. I might worry about that if I wasn't white, because we are that kind of country...

I do worry about some nut shooting up a theater or a shopping mall or a place I happen to be working. And yes, when you have to put security guards, metal detectors, key card doors and all sorts of other security measures in place because of the one nut who might go on a rampage, then you aren't particularly free, are you?

 

[Pilot1]

MORE gun laws are counterproductive to the safety of the law abiding.

 

[JoeB131]

Not really, Andrew Klavan on his podcast talked about this....... he said Freedom isn't the driving force for human beings.....it is safety and security, even it that means being a slave....he points to the Exodus story in the Bible where the Israelis are freed from slavery, with God using miracles to save them...then they bitch to Moses about how slavery was better than being in the desert.......

Okay, let's look at that story. First, the Israelite weren't "slaves" in Egypt... They just weren't allowed to practice their religion. Not that there is a SHRED of archaeological evidence that they ever lived in Egypt. Not to mention when Moses laid down the law, he put in a bunch or rules for slavery and slave ownership. (This is one of the first things I noticed when I actually started reading the bible instead of just accepting the Disney-fied version the Nuns were feeding us.)

Darn straight that they started bitching when they figured out that Moses had taken them from a place where they got regular food to where all they had to eat was Manna.

Second, ALL human interaction is a balance between individual rights and collective safety. Otherwise, every fender bender would escalate into a shoot-out pretty quickly if we didn't have traffic laws and police to enforce them.

Obviously, there is a scale between Anarchy and Despotism, and you want to hit a nice middle ground instead of either one of the extremes. The problem with you gun nuts is that you think that we can get closer to the anarchy and have a good result...

If you like conservative philosophical discusssions he is a really good one to listen too on Itunes or watch on Youtube or at the dailywire.......he is a crime fiction writer, whose books have been made into Clint Eastwood movies, and he recently wrote the screenplay for Gosnell....he talks culture, Hollywood, and religion.........great guy....

Oh, you mean he's a complete nutbag disconnected from reality...

 

[JoeB131]

You guys have to hide behind the murder rate because the increasing gun crime shows taking guns away from law abiding people does not decrease the gun crime rate...

Except countries that don't have private gun ownership have a lot less murder than we do.

I kind of don't care about other crimes... you can get over those. You don't get over being dead.

 

[Skull Pilot]

answer the question:
why is UK's murder rate 4 times lower?
or France's/Germany's?

Tell me why NH has a murder rate more than 4 times lower than CA despite CA having the harshest gun laws in the country

very bad, terrible comparison--WRONG
......anyone that graduated high school science/math knows for a hypothesis to be valid/etc using comparisons, the test subjects have be comparable/etc--ETC
..NH population 1.3 million
..Cali 39 million with twice the density

that's why
AND the laws are not federal

Funny how you talk about education yet you do not understand ratios

The murder RATE is murders per 100,00 it matters not if you compare different states because the RATIO accounts for population size

But if I didn't understand ratios and used your argument then your comparison of murder rates between the UK and the US is invalidated because the UK has a population od 66 million and the US has a population of 350 million

And no the laws are not federal which is why the comparison between states is relevant.

There are 23 states that have murder RATES less than CA and CA has the harshest gun laws in the country so if gun laws actually lowered murder rates then CA would have the lowest rate in the country and NH would have a much higher murder rate.

Our murder rate is driven by relatively few very distinct areas in the country that are ultra violent. These areas are those that are historically plagued by segregation, poverty, unemployment , underemployment, substandard education, crime, drugs and gangs.

70% of all murders occur in these areas which tend to be inner city neighborhoods that exist in very small areas of just 2% of all the counties in the US.

We do not have a gun problem. We have a cancer in our inner cities that breeds enough violence and murder so as to skew the rates for the entire country

wrong--
they are not comparable
density is twice as much
population much more
LA, NYCity and Chi population density MUCH more than STL
you expect more problems with higher density--but we see STL has more problems

• Population density and degree of urbanization.

Variables Affecting Crime

Murder RATE takes differing population sizes into account.

What do you not understand about that?

 

[Skull Pilot]

answer the question:
why is UK's murder rate 4 times lower?
or France's/Germany's?

Tell me why NH has a murder rate more than 4 times lower than CA despite CA having the harshest gun laws in the country

very bad, terrible comparison--WRONG
......anyone that graduated high school science/math knows for a hypothesis to be valid/etc using comparisons, the test subjects have be comparable/etc--ETC
..NH population 1.3 million
..Cali 39 million with twice the density

that's why
AND the laws are not federal

Funny how you talk about education yet you do not understand ratios

The murder RATE is murders per 100,00 it matters not if you compare different states because the RATIO accounts for population size

But if I didn't understand ratios and used your argument then your comparison of murder rates between the UK and the US is invalidated because the UK has a population od 66 million and the US has a population of 350 million

And no the laws are not federal which is why the comparison between states is relevant.

There are 23 states that have murder RATES less than CA and CA has the harshest gun laws in the country so if gun laws actually lowered murder rates then CA would have the lowest rate in the country and NH would have a much higher murder rate.

Our murder rate is driven by relatively few very distinct areas in the country that are ultra violent. These areas are those that are historically plagued by segregation, poverty, unemployment , underemployment, substandard education, crime, drugs and gangs.

70% of all murders occur in these areas which tend to be inner city neighborhoods that exist in very small areas of just 2% of all the counties in the US.

We do not have a gun problem. We have a cancer in our inner cities that breeds enough violence and murder so as to skew the rates for the entire country

also, France, Great Britain, and Germany--lower murder rates
the numbers are too large and right there to argue

We have very real and very relevant differences from those countries that go far beyond gun laws

 

[Pilot1]

In the U.S. we have an inner city societal/cultural problem with Black, on Black violence isolated to these areas. It skews the numbers dramatically, yet the Democrats in these cities don't address the problem. They are OK with that violence, but want to take away firearms from the law abiding. Why?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Funny when I told you they use a different methodology for defining murder you scoffed. but now you use the very argument you dismissed

Not at all... there's really only one way to define murder. You got a dead body and someone killed him... everyone defines that the same way.

But the US doesn't call it rape until fluids are exchanged, while the Brits call any clumsy groping a rape.

Most of us don't give a flying or any other kind of fuck about the UK and their boot licking monarch worshipers but you control freaks seem to love the UK so much you want to be just like them

YOu mean, when we see something they do that works, um, yeah, we should totally try that.

Gun control works in the UK. They have less murder, so little crime they can actually investigate the little stuff our cops ignore, it's safe to go out on the street at night....

But man, every time we have a mass shooting, TwoTinyGuy gets out here and tells us how it's just awful that the London has a quarter of the number of murders Chicago has with three times as many people.

There are different ways to COUNT murders and the UK only counts murders where someone has been tried and convicted so no unsolved murders make it into their official murder tallies

 

[frigidweirdo]

In the U.S. we have an inner city societal/cultural problem with Black, on Black violence isolated to these areas. It skews the numbers dramatically, yet the Democrats in these cities don't address the problem. They are OK with that violence, but want to take away firearms from the law abiding. Why?

Here the problem is that A) there's easy access to firearms. B) there's a lack of effort at making education suitable for people to be able to get out of the hole they're in. C) promote small business rather than give massive tax cuts to multinationals. D) have after school programs and the like to keep kids on the straight and narrow (The London Olympics is credited with a massive reduction in crime in London).

 

[Skull Pilot]

In the U.S. we have an inner city societal/cultural problem with Black, on Black violence isolated to these areas. It skews the numbers dramatically, yet the Democrats in these cities don't address the problem. They are OK with that violence, but want to take away firearms from the law abiding. Why?

Here the problem is that A) there's easy access to firearms. B) there's a lack of effort at making education suitable for people to be able to get out of the hole they're in. C) promote small business rather than give massive tax cuts to multinationals. D) have after school programs and the like to keep kids on the straight and narrow (The London Olympics is credited with a massive reduction in crime in London).

Easy access to ILLEGAL firearms so why don't you concentrate on that rather than stomping on the rights of the
99.999% of LEGAL gun owners who will never commit any crime never mind murder?

 

[Pilot1]

Law abiding gun owners are not the problem. Go after the criminals.

 

[dannyboys]

Clearly the only sensible answer is to have more guns freely available...that'll fix it.

No. The solution is to remove ANYONE who is caught with a illegal gun.
Stick them all on a island in the Atlantic.
Lots of goats to fuck and eat.
Lots of pretty young men to molest.
Lifetime sentences.

 

[JoeB131]

There are different ways to COUNT murders and the UK only counts murders where someone has been tried and convicted so no unsolved murders make it into their official murder tallies

Still not true...

 

[Skull Pilot]

There are different ways to COUNT murders and the UK only counts murders where someone has been tried and convicted so no unsolved murders make it into their official murder tallies

Still not true...

I've given you a link to the publication from the House of Commons multuple times and you know it

So just because you say something isn't true in no way means it is false in fact with your record of duplicitousness just the opposite is true