Guns rarely used for self defence

[Skylar]

Totally ignored the pilot who murdered all those people didn't you.

That's anecdotal evidence. And argument by anecdote is a classic fallacy of logic. Why would I ignore the CDC yearly totals for the entire nation....in favor of one cherry picked anecdotal example when we're discussing probability?

Intellectual dishonesty is a trait prevalent in almost every anti gun person I have ever seen.

Or....you can't refute or even address what is actually being said. So you refute arguments that aren't being made,and recite a predigested script. I'm not even antigun. I own two. I'm simply aware that trying to use one for self defense is far more likely to result in harm to me and my family than it is an intruder.

Again, its 80 times more likely that you or a member of your family will kill themselves with a fire arm than kill an intruder. And having a gun in the house increases the likelihood of suicide by about double. The odds of an accidental shooting is about double that of shooting an intruder.

Why would you subject your family to this? For the literal 1 in a million odds that you'll shoot some intruder?

Again, those are absolute shit odds. You'd laugh in a bookie's face if he offered you those numbers. Yet you double down on them with your own family?

No thank you.

You do not fail to follow up the tradition.

You're going through the motions in some predigested script titled 'anti-gun debate' in your head. But you're not actually addressing anything I've said. You're refuting studies I've never cited, debunking points I've never made...

.....and failing spectacularly to even address the points I've made. Let alone refute them with anything more than naked denial.

Again, no thank you.

 

[Correll]

Guns rarely used for self-defense in US - Yahoo News

For every justifiable homicide involving a gun, 32 criminal homicides carried out with a firearm occurred. Also, gun owners are far more likely to hurt themselves or others, than to use them for self defense.

So stupid.....
If a criminal comes to your home and you have nothing with which to defend yourself, what is the most likely scenario?
Same crook, you have a gun and you make that clear....Now what?

And yet, experts agree that he most effective gun to use to protect your home is a shotgun. It is guaranteed to disable or kill, almost impossible to miss the target, and probably will not go through walls to harm your family.

so, you have a shotgun in your home, right?

A normal shotgun pattern is doesn't spread to the size of your fist until past the normal self defense ranges. That's easy enough to miss with.

THe longer the gun, the further away it is from your body, and the greater the chance of someone grabbing it.

Many shotguns are single or double shot. That certainly has some minuses for home defense.

 

[westwall]

Suicide should be removed for one thing. Anyone who uses a gun to commit suicide is going to succeed.

Thus the 'guns are more dangerous' point I made. As someone who attempts suicide with a toy gun is far less likely to succeed. You're literally arguing that guns should be removed from the list in a discussion of how dangerous they are....

...because they're so dangerous and likely to kill you.

Um, no. They're exactly where they should be. And the odds of you or a member of your family killing themselves with a gun is more than 80 times higher than shooting an intruder.

Worse, having a gun in the house dramatically increases the rate of suicide in that house. It effectively doubles the likelihood of suicide over homes without guns.

Firearm Access is a Risk Factor for Suicide Means Matter Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health

Why would you want to subject your family to that? For the literal 1 in a 1,000,000 chance of shooting an actual intruder? Those are shit odds.

"The "43 times" claim was based upon a small-scale study of firearms deaths in King County, Washington (Seattle and Bellevue) covering the period 1978-83. The authors state,"

Keep and Bear Arms - Gun Owners Home Page - 2nd Amendment Supporters

You're debunking a study I'm not citing. So...strawman much?

And a battered spouse is 5 times more likely to be killed by her husband if he owns a gun.

How do her odds change if SHE has the gun?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Guns rarely used for self-defense in US - Yahoo News

For every justifiable homicide involving a gun, 32 criminal homicides carried out with a firearm occurred. Also, gun owners are far more likely to hurt themselves or others, than to use them for self defense.

So stupid.....
If a criminal comes to your home and you have nothing with which to defend yourself, what is the most likely scenario?
Same crook, you have a gun and you make that clear....Now what?

And yet, experts agree that he most effective gun to use to protect your home is a shotgun. It is guaranteed to disable or kill, almost impossible to miss the target, and probably will not go through walls to harm your family.

so, you have a shotgun in your home, right?

BS when it comes to being impossible to miss.
A shotgun even shortened to the legal limit of eighteen inches only spreads around 4 or 5 inches at the distances you'll be shooting inside a house.
And if you're shooting 00 buck it'll go through a wall easily.

 

[Correll]

I personally know two people who have used handguns for self defense.

Both were white guys attacked by multiple black guys.

Both were able to deter violence/further violence by merely showing their handguns.

OF course they didn't fire their guns. THey didn't kill any of their attackers.

So, according to your slanted stats, nothing happened and they don't exist.

Except that if they did not have those guns, they would have at least been badly beaten.

The one and only time I had to use a gun in self defense was when two beaners thought they were going to pull a home invasion on me.
They tried to pull the broken down car ploy to get me to open the door.
I've never seen a so called broken down car go so fast.

Did you fire your gun? Did you kill them?

Then according to Sklar nothing happened.

It doesn't matter that you at least saved yourself from being beaten and robbed.

Was there other people in your home too?

All it took was me dropping the barrel of the shorty 870 into view and they scrambled like a bunch scalded apes. Could have easily shot em though.
And yes the wife was home at the time.

I'm very glad that neither of you were hurt.

I had a friend who was a visiting nurse who had an elderly couple that she went to see one day.

They had been home invaded.

Both have been beaten and tied up and left.

The husband died from the trauma and being tied up. THe wife had to sit there with her dead husband for hours.

My friend got to be the one to tell her, that yes, indeed, your husband is dead.

Thats seriously F'd up!!
I will say I learned a valuable lessen that day. Never assume anything.

That's what the gun grabbers dismiss as not important because you didn't kill anyone.

 

[westwall]

Totally ignored the pilot who murdered all those people didn't you.

That's anecdotal evidence. And argument by anecdote is a classic fallacy of logic. Why would I ignore the CDC yearly totals for the entire nation....in favor of one cherry picked anecdotal example when we're discussing probability?

Intellectual dishonesty is a trait prevalent in almost every anti gun person I have ever seen.

Or....you can't refute or even address what is actually being said. So you refute arguments that aren't being made,and recite a predigested script. I'm not even antigun. I own two. I'm simply aware that trying to use one for self defense is far more likely to result in harm to me and my family than it is an intruder.

Again, its 80 times more likely that you or a member of your family will kill themselves with a fire arm than kill an intruder. And having a gun in the house increases the likelihood of suicide by about double. The odds of an accidental shooting is about double that of shooting an intruder.

Why would you subject your family to this? For the literal 1 in a million odds that you'll shoot some intruder?

Again, those are absolute shit odds. You'd laugh in a bookie's face if he offered you those numbers. Yet you double down on them with your own family?

No thank you.

You do not fail to follow up the tradition.

You're going through the motions in some predigested script titled 'anti-gun debate' in your head. But you're not actually addressing anything I've said. You're refuting studies I've never cited, debunking points I've never made...

.....and failing spectacularly to even address the points I've made. Let alone refute them with anything more than naked denial.

Again, no thank you.

That's because what you are saying is not relevant. A person who uses a gun to commit suicide is GOING TO COMMIT SUICIDE. Taking the gun away from him won't alter the result. Japan has virtually no gun ownership and their suicide rate is significantly higher than ours so your suicide argument is stupid.

 

[westwall]

Guns rarely used for self-defense in US - Yahoo News

For every justifiable homicide involving a gun, 32 criminal homicides carried out with a firearm occurred. Also, gun owners are far more likely to hurt themselves or others, than to use them for self defense.

So stupid.....
If a criminal comes to your home and you have nothing with which to defend yourself, what is the most likely scenario?
Same crook, you have a gun and you make that clear....Now what?

And yet, experts agree that he most effective gun to use to protect your home is a shotgun. It is guaranteed to disable or kill, almost impossible to miss the target, and probably will not go through walls to harm your family.

so, you have a shotgun in your home, right?

You are full of poo too. Many people, especially the old, are incapable of wielding a shotgun. A shotgun does have its place in a home defense arsenal but it is not the best in most situations. "Impossible to miss the target"? Clearly you have never handled a weapon. No gun user would ever make such a ridiculous statement.

With a modified choke (most common) your pattern at 3 feet (most common distance for a gun fight is one inch. Slightly bigger than the bore diameter. In other words it is only slightly bigger than a .45 ACP pistol bullet.

 

[Jarlaxle]

You're far, far more likely to be one of those that hurts yourself, is involved in an accidental shooting, has a bullet go through the wall and hit a sleeping neighbor or inadvertently put a shell into a family member. Or even more darkly, quite intentionally put a round in yourself.

That's one reason my wife has a gun. Quite simply, the last round is for her.

 

[Vandalshandle]

...and yet it is the weapon of choice for the police in close in riot type conditions. For example, the cops all carried shotguns when breaking up looters during Katrina.

I wonder why that is?

 

[Vandalshandle]

Guns rarely used for self-defense in US - Yahoo News

For every justifiable homicide involving a gun, 32 criminal homicides carried out with a firearm occurred. Also, gun owners are far more likely to hurt themselves or others, than to use them for self defense.

So stupid.....
If a criminal comes to your home and you have nothing with which to defend yourself, what is the most likely scenario?
Same crook, you have a gun and you make that clear....Now what?

And yet, experts agree that he most effective gun to use to protect your home is a shotgun. It is guaranteed to disable or kill, almost impossible to miss the target, and probably will not go through walls to harm your family.

so, you have a shotgun in your home, right?

You are full of poo too. Many people, especially the old, are incapable of wielding a shotgun. A shotgun does have its place in a home defense arsenal but it is not the best in most situations. "Impossible to miss the target"? Clearly you have never handled a weapon. No gun user would ever make such a ridiculous statement.

With a modified choke (most common) your pattern at 3 feet (most common distance for a gun fight is one inch. Slightly bigger than the bore diameter. In other words it is only slightly bigger than a .45 ACP pistol bullet.

I have never handled a weapon?

And your opinion is that a person who is too old to handle a shotgun should use a semi-automatic weapon instead?

Thanks for your opinion, WW.

 

[turtledude]

Guns rarely used for self-defense in US - Yahoo News

For every justifiable homicide involving a gun, 32 criminal homicides carried out with a firearm occurred. Also, gun owners are far more likely to hurt themselves or others, than to use them for self defense.

i guess anti gun morons think that killing a bad guy is the only way a gun can be used in self defense

 

[turtledude]

I have never handled a weapon?

And your opinion is that a person who is too old to handle a shotgun should use a semi-automatic weapon instead?

Thanks for your opinion, WW.

uh many self defense shotguns are semiautomatic moron

 

[turtledude]

Total crap because they only consider homicides to be "usage". The overwhelming majority of defensive uses of firearms the trigger is never pulled. Bad guys, amazingly enough, don't like to get shot.

right you are

have used firearms three times for self defense

1) the bad guy saw me lining him up with an Ithaca 37 pump gun as he tried to break into my parents house-he fled

2) bad guy was trying to pry open my apartment door with a screw driver. I snuck up behind him after calling the cops and held him at gunpoint until the constabulary arrived

3) I was jumped by two narcotically influenced urban utes and gave one of them a 9mm colonoscopy which caused the other to shit himself. both were quickly captured and jailed. the one I shot survived

no homicides, three crimes prevented, three suspects arrested, one got away

 

[turtledude]

Off-duty officer shoots ex-wife dead after New Jersey car chase - Yahoo News

Driving an SUV, Phillip Seidle, 51, was pursuing his recently divorced wife, Tamara Seidle, in her car when she crashed into another vehicle in Asbury Park, New Jersey, said Charles Webster, spokesman of the Monmouth County Prosecutor’s Office.

Seidle, a 22-year veteran of New Jersey's Neptune Township Police Department, got out with his service weapon, a .40-caliber Glock handgun, and fired several shots into his ex-wife's car from the driver's side, Webster said.

He then made his way to the front of the car and fired more shots at her through the windshield, Webster said.​

The Gun Fetishists now have to explain how he was just "defending himself" against his unarmed ex-wife and 7 year old daughter.

I guess the solution is to disarm cops. but assholes like you think that cops are the only people who should be legally owned. when someone refers to "gun fetishists" I realize I am dealing with a panty soiling retard who craps himself over other people being able to own guns

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Total crap because they only consider homicides to be "usage". The overwhelming majority of defensive uses of firearms the trigger is never pulled. Bad guys, amazingly enough, don't like to get shot.

you have a valid point, yet the facts remain you and your family are more likely to die if there is a gun in the house

 

[OKTexas]

...and yet it is the weapon of choice for the police in close in riot type conditions. For example, the cops all carried shotguns when breaking up looters during Katrina.

I wonder why that is?

The large bore is very intimidating, tends to get peoples attention.

 

[turtledude]

You're far, far more likely to be one of those that hurts yourself, is involved in an accidental shooting, has a bullet go through the wall and hit a sleeping neighbor or inadvertently put a shell into a family member. Or even more darkly, quite intentionally put a round in yourself.

And I don't think you'd be happy about that. Nor would you wife and child. As the doctors may be digging your round at one of them.

For me its a numbers game. Guns used for self defense are far more likely to hurt you and yours than some intruder. Its like swinging a sword by the blade.

uh that's complete bullshit. the studies you are probably seduced by were dishonest, Most of the incidents they studied involved homes where the owners were not allowed to own guns or cases where an INTRUDER or someone who caused the shooting brought the weapon to the home

 

[turtledude]

you have a valid point, yet the facts remain you and your family are more likely to die if there is a gun in the house

yeah especially if someone else brings a gun into your home seeking to hurt you and you are unarmed

 

[turtledude]

...and yet it is the weapon of choice for the police in close in riot type conditions. For example, the cops all carried shotguns when breaking up looters during Katrina.

I wonder why that is?

because they weren't doing house clearing drills by themselves

and they might have to engage targets are various distances and multiple targets

you don't know much about tactical firearms usage do you?

 

[OKTexas]

Total crap because they only consider homicides to be "usage". The overwhelming majority of defensive uses of firearms the trigger is never pulled. Bad guys, amazingly enough, don't like to get shot.

you have a valid point, yet the facts remain you and your family are more likely to die if there is a gun in the house

You're even more likely to die if you ride in a car.