Hanoi Jane

[High_Gravity]

When it comes right down to it.

History has proven Jane Fonda to be right on Vietnam.

For her patriotic stance and personal sacrifice in trying to end the war.

She should be called to the White House.

And awarded the "Medal of Freedom" by President Obama.

She may have been right about the war but the way she behaved was shameful and damn near treasonous, giving her any kind of medal is spitting in the face of everyone who served over there.

 

[Sunni Man]

Muhammad Ali basically took the same stance on Vietnam as did Jane Fonda.

He used religion as an excuse to avoid the draft

And was a huge influence in turning blacks against the war.

But he is still admired as a former boxer and a world class celebrity.

Whereas Fonda is still vilified by many Americans.

 

[slukasiewski]

Muhammad Ali basically took the same stance on Vietnam as did Jane Fonda.

He used religion as an excuse to avoid the draft

And was a huge influence in turning blacks against the war.

But he is still admired as a former boxer and a world class celebrity.

Whereas Fonda is still vilified by many Americans.

Bill Clinton took a similar stance against the war and dodged the draft as well. Why are you obsessed with draft-dodging cowards?

 

[High_Gravity]

Muhammad Ali basically took the same stance on Vietnam as did Jane Fonda.

He used religion as an excuse to avoid the draft

And was a huge influence in turning blacks against the war.

But he is still admired as a former boxer and a world class celebrity.

Whereas Fonda is still vilified by many Americans.

Mohammed Ali didn't go over to Vietnam and hug it out with the Viet Cong.

 

[Article 15]

E

Muhammad Ali basically took the same stance on Vietnam as did Jane Fonda.

He used religion as an excuse to avoid the draft

And was a huge influence in turning blacks against the war.

But he is still admired as a former boxer and a world class celebrity.

Whereas Fonda is still vilified by many Americans.

Mohammed Ali didn't go over to Vietnam and hug it out with the Viet Cong.

The greatest heavyweight of all time went to jail and lost prime years of his career for his beliefs.

I admire the hell out of Ali.

 

[slukasiewski]

E

Muhammad Ali basically took the same stance on Vietnam as did Jane Fonda.

He used religion as an excuse to avoid the draft

And was a huge influence in turning blacks against the war.

But he is still admired as a former boxer and a world class celebrity.

Whereas Fonda is still vilified by many Americans.

Mohammed Ali didn't go over to Vietnam and hug it out with the Viet Cong.

The greatest heavyweight of all time went to jail and lost prime years of his career for his beliefs.

I admire the hell out of Ali.

You would.

Idiot...

You probably admire Jimmy Carter as well

 

[PoliticalChic]

Jane Fonda was an American Patriot whom history has proved correct.

I wish we had more citizens like her.

People who believe in the Constitution.

And will stand up and take action when they see it being violated by the government.

They are the real "Hero's" of America.

1. Jane Fonda was one of those opponents of the Vietnam War for whom no amount of sympathy for America’s communist enemy was too much. This daughter of privilege traveled to Hanoi, and, in obedience to the wishes of her North Vietnamese hosts, heaped scorn on the notion that American POW’s were being mistreated. She posed gaily peering through the sight of an anti-aircraft gun (presumably prepared to fire on American planes), and made propaganda radio broadcasts. It is difficult to imagine what more she could have done to qualify as a traitor. Charen, “Useful Idiots,” p. 46.

2. In 1979, Humanitas, the organization of anti-war activist Joan Baez, purchased a newspaper ad that ran in five large circulation dailies, called “An Open Letter to the Socialist Republic of Vietnam,” which ran in part: “Thousands of innocent Vietnamese, many of whose only “crimes” are those of conscience, are being arrested, detained and tortured in prison and re-education camps… The jails are overflowing with thousands upon thousands of “detainees”… People disappear and never return… People are used as human mine detectors, clearing live mine fields with their hands and feet. For many, life is hell and death is prayed for. With tragic irony, the cruelty, violence and oppression practiced by foreign powers in your country for more than a century continue today under the present regime.

It was an abiding commitment to fundamental principles of human dignity, freedom and self-determination that motivated so many Americans to oppose the government of South Vietnam and our country's participation in the war. It is that same commitment that compels us to speak out against your brutal disregard of human rights. As in the 60s, we raise our voices now so that your people may live. And a Voice to Sing With -- A Memoir, by Joan Baez

3. Baez mailed the letter to 350 anti-war activists. Among those who refused to sign was Jane Fonda. “Your name would mean much more than any other,” she told Fonda, in a long letter. Fonda wrote that the add would lend credence to those who believe “that Communism is worse than death…” Washington Post, Lynn Darling, “Joan Baez at 38,” June 29, 1979

You do realize that the Vietnam war was essentially a war crime...committed by US politicians that did not understand the region and were fixated on stemming the tide of communism (In Johnson case) or didn't want to lose a war (In Nixon's case). The US dropped more Ordnance on that small country then all wars previously combined and was responsible for the deaths of over 50K American troops..and millions of Vietnamese.

Protesting that war was a matter of doing the right thing.

Jane Fonda should have been praised.

In addition to having been steeped in Leftist thought about which you haven't the intellectual strength to free yourself, you have a vast.....VAST lacunae about communism, what it is, and what it does.

My condolences.

 

[Sunni Man]

Muhammad Ali basically took the same stance on Vietnam as did Jane Fonda.

He used religion as an excuse to avoid the draft

And was a huge influence in turning blacks against the war.

But he is still admired as a former boxer and a world class celebrity.

Whereas Fonda is still vilified by many Americans.

Mohammed Ali didn't go over to Vietnam and hug it out with the Viet Cong.

True, but his well publcized stance was even more effective in turning public opinion against the war.

Especially in the African American community.

So is Muhammad Ali forgiven because he is black?

And Jane Fonda still vilified because she is white?

After all, it was basically an old white Man's war.

 

[mal]

Jane Fonda, that self agrandizing pampered scion of Henry Fonda, did absolutely nothing positive for the anti-war movement.

She admits now that what she was was wrongheaded and ill concieved.

Much like ROBERT MACNAMARA admitted that his actions during the war were wrong headed and tragic, so too does Jane acknowledge her foolishness.

There is one major difference, however.

Jane's mistakes didn't result in millions of deaths of innocent people.

Bob's did.

Is it Easier for you to Blame the Sec. of Defense under (2) DemocRAT Presidents than it is to Blame the Presidents themselves?...

Kennedy and LBJ Started and Escalated the War in Southeast Asia...

Nixon Ended it.

Take Responsibility for your Party...

If Millions of Vietnamese Innocents Blood are on American Leaders Hands, it's on Kennedy and LBJ.

Stop being Dishonest and trying to Hide them behind their Employee.

Fucking Revisionist Liberals...



peace...

 

[Article 15]

E

Mohammed Ali didn't go over to Vietnam and hug it out with the Viet Cong.

The greatest heavyweight of all time went to jail and lost prime years of his career for his beliefs.

I admire the hell out of Ali.

You would.

Idiot...

You probably admire Jimmy Carter as well

Aww look the poor lil guy is still smarting over the spanking he got earlier this morning.

Don't worry lil fella it'll be alright.

 

[slukasiewski]

E

The greatest heavyweight of all time went to jail and lost prime years of his career for his beliefs.

I admire the hell out of Ali.

You would.

Idiot...

You probably admire Jimmy Carter as well

Aww look the poor lil guy is still smarting over the spanking he got earlier this morning.

Don't worry lil fella it'll be alright.

The only thing that got spanked earlier, polesmoker - is your ass. By Mohammed at the gas station - right before he made you suck him off.

Now STFU or I will PWND your faggoty ass in this thread too.

 

[Article 15]

You would.

Idiot...

You probably admire Jimmy Carter as well

Aww look the poor lil guy is still smarting over the spanking he got earlier this morning.

Don't worry lil fella it'll be alright.

The only thing that got spanked earlier, polesmoker - is your ass. By Mohammed at the gas station - right before he made you suck him off.

Now STFU or I will PWND your faggoty ass in this thread too.

Yeah you were really putting me in my place with the "I know you are but what am i" schtick

Here's your binky. Now go back to the sandbox, lil boy.

 

[High_Gravity]

Muhammad Ali basically took the same stance on Vietnam as did Jane Fonda.

He used religion as an excuse to avoid the draft

And was a huge influence in turning blacks against the war.

But he is still admired as a former boxer and a world class celebrity.

Whereas Fonda is still vilified by many Americans.

Mohammed Ali didn't go over to Vietnam and hug it out with the Viet Cong.

True, but his well publcized stance was even more effective in turning public opinion against the war.

Especially in the African American community.

So is Muhammad Ali forgiven because he is black?

And Jane Fonda still vilified because she is white?

After all, it was basically an old white Man's war.

I don't think color has anything to do with it, if Ali went over to Vietnam and was all buddy buddy with the VC he would be in the same boat as Fonda. Fonda visited a POW Camp in North Vietnam and some of our Soldiers gave her notes to pass on to their families, and she turned them over to the warden, those Soldiers were severely beaten and tortured for days, Fonda did things like this to hurt our Military members, Ali did no such thing.

 

[Sunni Man]

If I remember correctly; the note passing story is fraudulent.

 

[mal]

If I remember correctly; the note passing story is fraudulent.

Strolling already Corrected herself...



peace...

 

[PoliticalChic]

Yep.

Apparently massacring a whole village of unarmed civilians and gang raping children, as Lt. Calley did, is a-okay..in the eyes of some folks.

And "posing" for pictures is treason in those very same eyes.

Ya cause after all we did not prosecute for that right? YOU are to stupid to breath.

Calley is still living and breathing to this day..without spending all that much time in jail. And..he was convicted of killing 22 people.

Stupidity, apparently, had nothing to do with the act of breathing.

And approving of the murder and gang rape of children is just disgusting.

Absolutely and utterly disgusting.

It seems that the deaths of the 22 innocents weighs heavily on your sensibilites....

...and in that connection:

1. In the scholarly “The Black Book of Communism,” Stephane Courtois, et. al. calculate (p. 572) that the Communists immediately shipped between 200,000 and a million to ‘reeducation camps’ out of a population of 20 million. Execution numbered about 65,000 not counting those who died slowly in the camps.

a. The new Communist Vietnam caused hundreds of thousands of ordinary people to flee their homes, with over 800,000 taking to the high seas in tiny boats. Commentary magazine, “Who Won Vietnam?”, May 1994.


And yet you and Jane Fonda stand shoulder to shoulder with these beasts.

I haven't seen this much twisting since you gave birth to yourself.

 

[del]

So you are not claiming the Army secretly authorized the murder of civilians? Last I checked the Army IS in fact part of the US Government.

So is the FTC, FAA, and a multitude of others but they are not the government in these terms . Calley claimed to be following orders, at least his interpretation of his orders. There was a documented attempted cover up by some superior military commanders of the incident which can only lend to the speculation that some other higher ups were also responsible and that Calley was, per se, the sacrificial lamb thrown to the wolves. Not that he didn't deserve to be but there was more to it than a junior grade officer miss-interpreting his orders. Maybe you want to read into (interpret) some more of my statement or are you willing to take it at face value?

Face value? You are accusing the US Army of ordering the murder of civilians. Pretty simple thing to see. And I am telling you, it did not happen. My father served in Viet Nam twice. He was career military. NOT once did he EVER make such a claim. Nor imply it nor support it.

pssst.

there were other people in he army besides your dad and unless your last name is westmoreland they probably had a bit more authority and knowledge.



honest

 

[slukasiewski]

So is the FTC, FAA, and a multitude of others but they are not the government in these terms . Calley claimed to be following orders, at least his interpretation of his orders. There was a documented attempted cover up by some superior military commanders of the incident which can only lend to the speculation that some other higher ups were also responsible and that Calley was, per se, the sacrificial lamb thrown to the wolves. Not that he didn't deserve to be but there was more to it than a junior grade officer miss-interpreting his orders. Maybe you want to read into (interpret) some more of my statement or are you willing to take it at face value?

Face value? You are accusing the US Army of ordering the murder of civilians. Pretty simple thing to see. And I am telling you, it did not happen. My father served in Viet Nam twice. He was career military. NOT once did he EVER make such a claim. Nor imply it nor support it.

pssst.

there were other people in he army besides your dad and unless your last name is westmoreland they probably had a bit more authority and knowledge.



honest

Psssst. When/where did you serve.
Just as I thought - never.

Then STFU.

Thanks.

 

[del]

Face value? You are accusing the US Army of ordering the murder of civilians. Pretty simple thing to see. And I am telling you, it did not happen. My father served in Viet Nam twice. He was career military. NOT once did he EVER make such a claim. Nor imply it nor support it.

pssst.

there were other people in he army besides your dad and unless your last name is westmoreland they probably had a bit more authority and knowledge.



honest

Psssst. When/where did you serve.
Just as I thought - never.

Then STFU.

Thanks.

1973-1999 USNR retired

i worked on ELINT.

you, i believe, worked with lint.

you can call me sir

great job on the laundry, btw

that is all

 

[del]

Ya cause after all we did not prosecute for that right? YOU are to stupid to breath.

Calley is still living and breathing to this day..without spending all that much time in jail. And..he was convicted of killing 22 people.

Stupidity, apparently, had nothing to do with the act of breathing.

And approving of the murder and gang rape of children is just disgusting.

Absolutely and utterly disgusting.

It seems that the deaths of the 22 innocents weighs heavily on your sensibilites....

...and in that connection:

1. In the scholarly “The Black Book of Communism,” Stephane Courtois, et. al. calculate (p. 572) that the Communists immediately shipped between 200,000 and a million to ‘reeducation camps’ out of a population of 20 million. Execution numbered about 65,000 not counting those who died slowly in the camps.

a. The new Communist Vietnam caused hundreds of thousands of ordinary people to flee their homes, with over 800,000 taking to the high seas in tiny boats. Commentary magazine, “Who Won Vietnam?”, May 1994.


And yet you and Jane Fonda stand shoulder to shoulder with these beasts.

I haven't seen this much twisting since you gave birth to yourself.

i haven't seen this much moral relativism since the last time you posted