Hanoi Jane

[Ringel05]

Calley is still living and breathing to this day..without spending all that much time in jail. And..he was convicted of killing 22 people.

Stupidity, apparently, had nothing to do with the act of breathing.

And approving of the murder and gang rape of children is just disgusting.

Absolutely and utterly disgusting.

Calley was a scape goat used to protect his superiors and the Army in general, why else do you think he got off so lightly? As for anyone here, other than you, claiming we approve(d) of those actions.... well, so far I haven't seen it.

Your words.

Since when was the US Army the government? Did I miss a coup somewhere along the way?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Calley was a scape goat used to protect his superiors and the Army in general, why else do you think he got off so lightly? As for anyone here, other than you, claiming we approve(d) of those actions.... well, so far I haven't seen it.

Your words.

Since when was the US Army the government? Did I miss a coup somewhere along the way?

So you are not claiming the Army secretly authorized the murder of civilians? Last I checked the Army IS in fact part of the US Government.

 

[Ringel05]

Your words.

Since when was the US Army the government? Did I miss a coup somewhere along the way?

So you are not claiming the Army secretly authorized the murder of civilians? Last I checked the Army IS in fact part of the US Government.

So is the FTC, FAA, and a multitude of others but they are not the government in these terms . Calley claimed to be following orders, at least his interpretation of his orders. There was a documented attempted cover up by some superior military commanders of the incident which can only lend to the speculation that some other higher ups were also responsible and that Calley was, per se, the sacrificial lamb thrown to the wolves. Not that he didn't deserve to be but there was more to it than a junior grade officer miss-interpreting his orders. Maybe you want to read into (interpret) some more of my statement or are you willing to take it at face value?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Since when was the US Army the government? Did I miss a coup somewhere along the way?

So you are not claiming the Army secretly authorized the murder of civilians? Last I checked the Army IS in fact part of the US Government.

So is the FTC, FAA, and a multitude of others but they are not the government in these terms . Calley claimed to be following orders, at least his interpretation of his orders. There was a documented attempted cover up by some superior military commanders of the incident which can only lend to the speculation that some other higher ups were also responsible and that Calley was, per se, the sacrificial lamb thrown to the wolves. Not that he didn't deserve to be but there was more to it than a junior grade officer miss-interpreting his orders. Maybe you want to read into (interpret) some more of my statement or are you willing to take it at face value?

Face value? You are accusing the US Army of ordering the murder of civilians. Pretty simple thing to see. And I am telling you, it did not happen. My father served in Viet Nam twice. He was career military. NOT once did he EVER make such a claim. Nor imply it nor support it.

 

[Ringel05]

So you are not claiming the Army secretly authorized the murder of civilians? Last I checked the Army IS in fact part of the US Government.

So is the FTC, FAA, and a multitude of others but they are not the government in these terms . Calley claimed to be following orders, at least his interpretation of his orders. There was a documented attempted cover up by some superior military commanders of the incident which can only lend to the speculation that some other higher ups were also responsible and that Calley was, per se, the sacrificial lamb thrown to the wolves. Not that he didn't deserve to be but there was more to it than a junior grade officer miss-interpreting his orders. Maybe you want to read into (interpret) some more of my statement or are you willing to take it at face value?

Face value? You are accusing the US Army of ordering the murder of civilians. Pretty simple thing to see. And I am telling you, it did not happen. My father served in Viet Nam twice. He was career military. NOT once did he EVER make such a claim. Nor imply it nor support it.

I am stating that a select (small) number of senior officers gave orders that Calley interpreted the way he did and that a proven cover up by said officers was attempted after the fact. In no way shape or form did I say the US Army ordered the murder of civilians. Maybe you should try reading it without interpreting it the way you see fit.

 

[Sallow]

Sallow is a fool and a retard. But Ringal is not far behind. The US Government did not order nor condone the murder of civilians. In fact they spent way to much time trying to placate the civilians.

The assasination of Diem was ordered by whom?

 

[strollingbones]

the charges against ms fonda are a little more serious than her just posing for pics....

damn i cant remember where or when i read this but here goes....

pows had written on small slips of paper their id numbers so that the us could id who was there.....ms fonda was given these slips as she shook the hands of the pows...(nice touch there...forcing them to shake her hand) and she gave them to the warden of the pows instead of giving them to the us government....

let me go try to find something about this.....

 

[strollingbones]

snopes.com: Jane Fonda and POWs

well my bad according to snopes that is a false myth

she only said the pows were being treated humanely and were lying about being tortured

"ONLY"

 

[mal]

Sallow is a fool and a retard. But Ringal is not far behind. The US Government did not order nor condone the murder of civilians. In fact they spent way to much time trying to placate the civilians.

The assasination of Diem was ordered by whom?

First of all... you're talking about a President... not "civilians"...

Secondly... Nixon even Failed to pin that Theory on the Kennedy Administration...

You more Paranoid than Nixon these days, Sallow?...



peace...

 

[editec]

Jane Fonda, that self agrandizing pampered scion of Henry Fonda, did absolutely nothing positive for the anti-war movement.

She admits now that what she was was wrongheaded and ill concieved.

Much like ROBERT MACNAMARA admitted that his actions during the war were wrong headed and tragic, so too does Jane acknowledge her foolishness.

There is one major difference, however.

Jane's mistakes didn't result in millions of deaths of innocent people.

Bob's did.

 

[Ringel05]

Jane Fonda, that self agrandizing pampered scion of Henry Fonda, did absolutely nothing positive for the anti-war movement.

She admits now that what she was was wrongheaded and ill concieved.

Much like ROBERT MACNAMARA admitted that his actions during the war were wrong headed and tragic, so too does Jane acknowledge her foolishness.

There is one major difference, however.

Jane's mistakes didn't result in millions of deaths of innocent people.

Bob's did.

Bob? Millions? Uummmmm. Jane? Giving the north propaganda to prolong the war....... ? Yup. I wonder how many deaths resulted in that? Uuummmmm.........

 

[slukasiewski]

Sallow is a fool and a retard. But Ringal is not far behind. The US Government did not order nor condone the murder of civilians. In fact they spent way to much time trying to placate the civilians.

The assasination of Diem was ordered by whom?

First of all... you're talking about a President... not "civilians"...

Secondly... Nixon even Failed to pin that Theory on the Kennedy Administration...

You more Paranoid than Nixon these days, Sallow?...



peace...

Swallow is definately working overtime in this thread defending Socialists (Jane Fonda) traitors.

Perhaps he should take a break - go outside, burn a flag. Relieve some stress.

 

[editec]

Jane Fonda, that self agrandizing pampered scion of Henry Fonda, did absolutely nothing positive for the anti-war movement.

She admits now that what she was was wrongheaded and ill concieved.

Much like ROBERT MACNAMARA admitted that his actions during the war were wrong headed and tragic, so too does Jane acknowledge her foolishness.

There is one major difference, however.

Jane's mistakes didn't result in millions of deaths of innocent people.

Bob's did.

Bob? Millions? Uummmmm. Jane? Giving the north propaganda to prolong the war....... ? Yup. I wonder how many deaths resulted in that? Uuummmmm.........

Yeah, about 2,000,000 Viet Namese (noth and sourth) civilians died.

Nearly as many N VN soldiers and Viet cong (SVN irregulars working for the NVN) died, too.

Throw in the 58K+ US military personal deaths and we're well over 2 million deaths, sport.

Do some research if you doubt those estimates.

 

[Ringel05]

Jane Fonda, that self agrandizing pampered scion of Henry Fonda, did absolutely nothing positive for the anti-war movement.

She admits now that what she was was wrongheaded and ill concieved.

Much like ROBERT MACNAMARA admitted that his actions during the war were wrong headed and tragic, so too does Jane acknowledge her foolishness.

There is one major difference, however.

Jane's mistakes didn't result in millions of deaths of innocent people.

Bob's did.

Bob? Millions? Uummmmm. Jane? Giving the north propaganda to prolong the war....... ? Yup. I wonder how many deaths resulted in that? Uuummmmm.........

Yeah, about 2,000,000 Viet Namese (noth and sourth) civilians died.

Nearly as many N VN soldiers and Viet cong (SVN irregulars working for the NVN) died, too.

Throw in the 58K+ US military personal deaths and we're well over 2 million deaths, sport.

Do some research if you doubt those estimates.

Doubt the estimates? Nah.... sport..... I actually posted a link earlier. Claim that Bob was responsible for all of them? Yeah, right....... sport........

 

[slukasiewski]

Bob? Millions? Uummmmm. Jane? Giving the north propaganda to prolong the war....... ? Yup. I wonder how many deaths resulted in that? Uuummmmm.........

Yeah, about 2,000,000 Viet Namese (noth and sourth) civilians died.

Nearly as many N VN soldiers and Viet cong (SVN irregulars working for the NVN) died, too.

Throw in the 58K+ US military personal deaths and we're well over 2 million deaths, sport.

Do some research if you doubt those estimates.

Doubt the estimates? Nah.... sport..... I actually posted a link earlier. Claim that Bob was responsible for all of them? Yeah, right....... sport........

Another "Armchair Warrior" Chickenhawk who doesn't know jack-shit about service to this nation.

Why don't you enlist - and take that Chickenship "Swallow" with you...

 

[Ringel05]

Yeah, about 2,000,000 Viet Namese (noth and sourth) civilians died.

Nearly as many N VN soldiers and Viet cong (SVN irregulars working for the NVN) died, too.

Throw in the 58K+ US military personal deaths and we're well over 2 million deaths, sport.

Do some research if you doubt those estimates.

Doubt the estimates? Nah.... sport..... I actually posted a link earlier. Claim that Bob was responsible for all of them? Yeah, right....... sport........

Another "Armchair Warrior" Chickenhawk who doesn't know jack-shit about service to this nation.

Why don't you enlist - and take that Chickenship "Swallow" with you...

Ya know, there's a lot of things editec and I disagree on but if I remember correctly he did serve and even though we disagree I still consider him one of my friends here on the board. Ya might want to tone down the rhetoric a bit, you're starting to sound a whole hell of a lot like one of the conservative village idiots.

 

[slukasiewski]

Doubt the estimates? Nah.... sport..... I actually posted a link earlier. Claim that Bob was responsible for all of them? Yeah, right....... sport........

Another "Armchair Warrior" Chickenhawk who doesn't know jack-shit about service to this nation.

Why don't you enlist - and take that Chickenship "Swallow" with you...

Ya know, there's a lot of things editec and I disagree on but if I remember correctly he did serve and even though we disagree I still consider him one of my friends here on the board. Ya might want to tone down the rhetoric a bit, you're starting to sound a whole hell of a lot like one of the conservative village idiots.

Thanks !

 

[Sunni Man]

When it comes right down to it.

History has proven Jane Fonda to be right on Vietnam.

For her patriotic stance and personal sacrifice in trying to end the war.

She should be called to the White House.

And awarded the "Medal of Freedom" by President Obama.

 

[editec]

When it comes right down to it.

History has proven Jane Fonda to be right on Vietnam.

For her patriotic stance and personal sacrifice in trying to end the war.

She should be called to the White House.

And awarded the "Medal of Freedom" by President Obama.

She was, in my opinion, absolutely right about the nature of the war and completely over the top in the way she expressed her discontent.

And, while I don't know Jane, I suspect she'd probably agree with the above, too.

She's said as much herself about that photo-op.

 

[slukasiewski]

When it comes right down to it.

History has proven Jane Fonda to be right on Vietnam.

For her patriotic stance and personal sacrifice in trying to end the war.

She should be called to the White House.

And awarded the "Medal of Freedom" by President Obama.

Yeah - hell with those 50,000+ patriots who served their country and paid the ultimate sacrifice.

Who's next on your worship list, Osama Bin Laden?

Idiot.