Happy Columbus Day !!

[Intolerant]

 

[Asclepias]

Ok. So youre saying that opening it up to colonization was the great deed columbus set in motion?

His "great deed" was being the first one to lead an expedition that returned information on the previously undocumented landmass.

And here is where you try to accuse him of genocide, and all sorts of bad things that happened.

Genocide is a modern concept, that requires the DESIRE AND EXECUTION to eliminate a racial or ethnic group.

What happened during colonization was exploitation, something done by the natives to each other, Europeans to each other, Africans to each other, and on and on until you get one group exploiting another, usually due to vast differences in technology.

So youre going to claim that columbus didnt advocate the genocide of the natives?

Considering he didn't know what genocide was, I doubt he could advocate for it.

It would be like asking him about a welding machine.

But please, provide proof that he "advocated genocide"

Who told you he didnt know what genocide was? Columbus set off fully knowledgeable about what he was doing. His plan was to take wealth from other people by force. When he encountered the natives he remarked on how easy it would be to conquer them. He then came back with a military force and systematically exterminated the natives.

That's exploitation. Not genocide.

The goal wasn't to exterimnate them the goal was to use them. Same thing any group did to another if they had a large advantage over them.

Real genocide has to have the explicit goal of elimination as a priority, not exploitation.

Its also exploitation but when you purposely kill off a culture race etc its genocide.

No the goal was to exterminate them and steal their shit.

 

[martybegan]

Big words from someone with modern knowledge and access to modern data.

Back then it was a huge risk sailing that direction, because others who went before him never came back, or turned back before they found anything.

You sound like an idiot. He wasn't even the first euriopean to make it to the americas.

he was the one that brought enough information back to begin the permanent colonization of the "New World"

The Viking settlements all failed, and left scant written evidence of them occurring. What we know about it is from the archeological digs and vague references to a land to the West.

The americas were already populated. What are you talking about? Columbus never even knew he had "discovered" a new continent.

They were populated, but the concept of discovery is of course from a European (and by proxy Oriental) perspective.

It doesn't matter his original thought on what he found, what matters is he led the first group that found the "New World" and opened it up to exploration and exploitation by the "Old World"

Did the Chinese Discover America?

The evidence for that is even less than the African theory.

 

[Intolerant]

Have to keep both sides happy.

 

[martybegan]

His "great deed" was being the first one to lead an expedition that returned information on the previously undocumented landmass.

And here is where you try to accuse him of genocide, and all sorts of bad things that happened.

Genocide is a modern concept, that requires the DESIRE AND EXECUTION to eliminate a racial or ethnic group.

What happened during colonization was exploitation, something done by the natives to each other, Europeans to each other, Africans to each other, and on and on until you get one group exploiting another, usually due to vast differences in technology.

So youre going to claim that columbus didnt advocate the genocide of the natives?

Considering he didn't know what genocide was, I doubt he could advocate for it.

It would be like asking him about a welding machine.

But please, provide proof that he "advocated genocide"

Who told you he didnt know what genocide was? Columbus set off fully knowledgeable about what he was doing. His plan was to take wealth from other people by force. When he encountered the natives he remarked on how easy it would be to conquer them. He then came back with a military force and systematically exterminated the natives.

That's exploitation. Not genocide.

The goal wasn't to exterimnate them the goal was to use them. Same thing any group did to another if they had a large advantage over them.

Real genocide has to have the explicit goal of elimination as a priority, not exploitation.

Its also exploitation but when you purposely kill off a culture race etc its genocide.

No the goal was to exterminate them and steal their shit.

No, there was no purpose to exterminate just because of who they were, that is the crux of genocide.

They were conquered and exploited, the only difference between Europeans doing it an other tribes doing it was the speed and the completeness of it.

 

[hunarcy]

You sound like an idiot. He wasn't even the first euriopean to make it to the americas.

he was the one that brought enough information back to begin the permanent colonization of the "New World"

The Viking settlements all failed, and left scant written evidence of them occurring. What we know about it is from the archeological digs and vague references to a land to the West.

The americas were already populated. What are you talking about? Columbus never even knew he had "discovered" a new continent.

They were populated, but the concept of discovery is of course from a European (and by proxy Oriental) perspective.

It doesn't matter his original thought on what he found, what matters is he led the first group that found the "New World" and opened it up to exploration and exploitation by the "Old World"

Did the Chinese Discover America?

The evidence for that is even less than the African theory.

Perhaps. I just like the theories. I can't believe there was NO contact between the Eastern and Western Hemispheres.

 

[Asclepias]

So youre going to claim that columbus didnt advocate the genocide of the natives?

Considering he didn't know what genocide was, I doubt he could advocate for it.

It would be like asking him about a welding machine.

But please, provide proof that he "advocated genocide"

Who told you he didnt know what genocide was? Columbus set off fully knowledgeable about what he was doing. His plan was to take wealth from other people by force. When he encountered the natives he remarked on how easy it would be to conquer them. He then came back with a military force and systematically exterminated the natives.

That's exploitation. Not genocide.

The goal wasn't to exterimnate them the goal was to use them. Same thing any group did to another if they had a large advantage over them.

Real genocide has to have the explicit goal of elimination as a priority, not exploitation.

Its also exploitation but when you purposely kill off a culture race etc its genocide.

No the goal was to exterminate them and steal their shit.

No, there was no purpose to exterminate just because of who they were, that is the crux of genocide.

They were conquered and exploited, the only difference between Europeans doing it an other tribes doing it was the speed and the completeness of it.

Yes there was a purpose to exterminate them and no there is no requirement that it has to be because of who they are for it to be genocide.

 

[martybegan]

he was the one that brought enough information back to begin the permanent colonization of the "New World"

The Viking settlements all failed, and left scant written evidence of them occurring. What we know about it is from the archeological digs and vague references to a land to the West.

The americas were already populated. What are you talking about? Columbus never even knew he had "discovered" a new continent.

They were populated, but the concept of discovery is of course from a European (and by proxy Oriental) perspective.

It doesn't matter his original thought on what he found, what matters is he led the first group that found the "New World" and opened it up to exploration and exploitation by the "Old World"

Did the Chinese Discover America?

The evidence for that is even less than the African theory.

Perhaps. I just like the theories. I can't believe there was NO contact between the Eastern and Western Hemispheres.

With the Pacific, it was a question of distances. With the Atlantic, it was a question of often very rough seas.

If one looks at the models of the boats columbus took across the Atlantic, they weren't very big.

 

[martybegan]

Considering he didn't know what genocide was, I doubt he could advocate for it.

It would be like asking him about a welding machine.

But please, provide proof that he "advocated genocide"

Who told you he didnt know what genocide was? Columbus set off fully knowledgeable about what he was doing. His plan was to take wealth from other people by force. When he encountered the natives he remarked on how easy it would be to conquer them. He then came back with a military force and systematically exterminated the natives.

That's exploitation. Not genocide.

The goal wasn't to exterimnate them the goal was to use them. Same thing any group did to another if they had a large advantage over them.

Real genocide has to have the explicit goal of elimination as a priority, not exploitation.

Its also exploitation but when you purposely kill off a culture race etc its genocide.

No the goal was to exterminate them and steal their shit.

No, there was no purpose to exterminate just because of who they were, that is the crux of genocide.

They were conquered and exploited, the only difference between Europeans doing it an other tribes doing it was the speed and the completeness of it.

Yes there was a purpose to exterminate them and no there is no requirement that it has to be because of who they are for it to be genocide.

Yes, there has to be a requirement as Genocide is a very specific term, meaning a very specific thing.

The elimination of a race or ethnic group "just because".

Exploitation is not genocide. Groups exploited each other all the time via war, assimilation, and forced servitude.

Genocide is different, and trying to expand it's definition for political reasons is pathetic.

 

[theHawk]

he was the one that brought enough information back to begin the permanent colonization of the "New World"

The Viking settlements all failed, and left scant written evidence of them occurring. What we know about it is from the archeological digs and vague references to a land to the West.

The americas were already populated. What are you talking about? Columbus never even knew he had "discovered" a new continent.

They were populated, but the concept of discovery is of course from a European (and by proxy Oriental) perspective.

It doesn't matter his original thought on what he found, what matters is he led the first group that found the "New World" and opened it up to exploration and exploitation by the "Old World"

But thats false. He didnt lead the first group of anything. Leif Ericsson was the first european to hit the americas and prior to that the Mali empire from Africa.

Ericsson's expedition didn't result in a permanent connection, or even durable documentation of the existence of another landmass to the west of Europe and East of Asia.

And the Mail empire theory has even less proof than the Viking one, and is thus dismissed by most experts on the matter. And even if it did happen, again it did not lead to the permanent opening of the new landmass to exploration and colonization.

Ok. So youre saying that opening it up to colonization was the great deed columbus set in motion?

Of course it was a great thing. If it hadn’t happened, you’d be living in a mud hut in Africa.

 

[Wyatt earp]

His "great deed" was being the first one to lead an expedition that returned information on the previously undocumented landmass.

And here is where you try to accuse him of genocide, and all sorts of bad things that happened.

Genocide is a modern concept, that requires the DESIRE AND EXECUTION to eliminate a racial or ethnic group.

What happened during colonization was exploitation, something done by the natives to each other, Europeans to each other, Africans to each other, and on and on until you get one group exploiting another, usually due to vast differences in technology.

So youre going to claim that columbus didnt advocate the genocide of the natives?

Considering he didn't know what genocide was, I doubt he could advocate for it.

It would be like asking him about a welding machine.

But please, provide proof that he "advocated genocide"

Who told you he didnt know what genocide was? Columbus set off fully knowledgeable about what he was doing. His plan was to take wealth from other people by force. When he encountered the natives he remarked on how easy it would be to conquer them. He then came back with a military force and systematically exterminated the natives.

That's exploitation. Not genocide.

The goal wasn't to exterimnate them the goal was to use them. Same thing any group did to another if they had a large advantage over them.

Real genocide has to have the explicit goal of elimination as a priority, not exploitation.

Its also exploitation but when you purposely kill off a culture race etc its genocide.

No the goal was to exterminate them and steal their shit.

So what?


Beside it was small pox and other diseases that wiped them out

 

[Asclepias]

So youre going to claim that columbus didnt advocate the genocide of the natives?

Considering he didn't know what genocide was, I doubt he could advocate for it.

It would be like asking him about a welding machine.

But please, provide proof that he "advocated genocide"

Who told you he didnt know what genocide was? Columbus set off fully knowledgeable about what he was doing. His plan was to take wealth from other people by force. When he encountered the natives he remarked on how easy it would be to conquer them. He then came back with a military force and systematically exterminated the natives.

That's exploitation. Not genocide.

The goal wasn't to exterimnate them the goal was to use them. Same thing any group did to another if they had a large advantage over them.

Real genocide has to have the explicit goal of elimination as a priority, not exploitation.

Its also exploitation but when you purposely kill off a culture race etc its genocide.

No the goal was to exterminate them and steal their shit.

So what?


Beside it was small pox and other diseases that wiped them out

So it was genocide.

No. It wasnt small pox that wiped out the natives columbus killed. That was done by white guys killing people and feeding their dogs the human meat.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Considering he didn't know what genocide was, I doubt he could advocate for it.

It would be like asking him about a welding machine.

But please, provide proof that he "advocated genocide"

Who told you he didnt know what genocide was? Columbus set off fully knowledgeable about what he was doing. His plan was to take wealth from other people by force. When he encountered the natives he remarked on how easy it would be to conquer them. He then came back with a military force and systematically exterminated the natives.

That's exploitation. Not genocide.

The goal wasn't to exterimnate them the goal was to use them. Same thing any group did to another if they had a large advantage over them.

Real genocide has to have the explicit goal of elimination as a priority, not exploitation.

Its also exploitation but when you purposely kill off a culture race etc its genocide.

No the goal was to exterminate them and steal their shit.

So what?


Beside it was small pox and other diseases that wiped them out

So it was genocide.

No. It wasnt small pox that wiped out the natives columbus killed. That was done by white guys killing people and feeding their dogs the human meat.

Bullshit...

 

[Asclepias]

Who told you he didnt know what genocide was? Columbus set off fully knowledgeable about what he was doing. His plan was to take wealth from other people by force. When he encountered the natives he remarked on how easy it would be to conquer them. He then came back with a military force and systematically exterminated the natives.

That's exploitation. Not genocide.

The goal wasn't to exterimnate them the goal was to use them. Same thing any group did to another if they had a large advantage over them.

Real genocide has to have the explicit goal of elimination as a priority, not exploitation.

Its also exploitation but when you purposely kill off a culture race etc its genocide.

No the goal was to exterminate them and steal their shit.

So what?


Beside it was small pox and other diseases that wiped them out

So it was genocide.

No. It wasnt small pox that wiped out the natives columbus killed. That was done by white guys killing people and feeding their dogs the human meat.

Bullshit...

Sorry but its true. He frequently killed NA children and fed them to his dogs.

"
In the early years of Columbus’ conquests there were butcher shops throughout the Caribbean where Indian bodies were sold as dog food. There was also a practice known as the montería infernal, the infernal chase, or manhunt, in which Indians were hunted by war-dogs.

These dogs—who also wore armor and had been fed human flesh, were a fierce match for the Indians. Live babies were also fed to these war dogs as sport, sometimes in front of horrified parents."

 

[martybegan]

That's exploitation. Not genocide.

The goal wasn't to exterimnate them the goal was to use them. Same thing any group did to another if they had a large advantage over them.

Real genocide has to have the explicit goal of elimination as a priority, not exploitation.

Its also exploitation but when you purposely kill off a culture race etc its genocide.

No the goal was to exterminate them and steal their shit.

So what?


Beside it was small pox and other diseases that wiped them out

So it was genocide.

No. It wasnt small pox that wiped out the natives columbus killed. That was done by white guys killing people and feeding their dogs the human meat.

Bullshit...

Sorry but its true. He frequently killed NA children and fed them to his dogs.

You got a link for that?

 

[Asclepias]

Its also exploitation but when you purposely kill off a culture race etc its genocide.

No the goal was to exterminate them and steal their shit.

So what?


Beside it was small pox and other diseases that wiped them out

So it was genocide.

No. It wasnt small pox that wiped out the natives columbus killed. That was done by white guys killing people and feeding their dogs the human meat.

Bullshit...

Sorry but its true. He frequently killed NA children and fed them to his dogs.

You got a link for that?

Theres millions of links. Heres two.

8 Myths and Atrocities About Christopher Columbus and Columbus Day - IndianCountryToday.com

9.11 - Columbus' History of Genocide

 

[Wyatt earp]

That's exploitation. Not genocide.

The goal wasn't to exterimnate them the goal was to use them. Same thing any group did to another if they had a large advantage over them.

Real genocide has to have the explicit goal of elimination as a priority, not exploitation.

Its also exploitation but when you purposely kill off a culture race etc its genocide.

No the goal was to exterminate them and steal their shit.

So what?


Beside it was small pox and other diseases that wiped them out

So it was genocide.

No. It wasnt small pox that wiped out the natives columbus killed. That was done by white guys killing people and feeding their dogs the human meat.

Bullshit...

Sorry but its true. He frequently killed NA children and fed them to his dogs.

"
In the early years of Columbus’ conquests there were butcher shops throughout the Caribbean where Indian bodies were sold as dog food. There was also a practice known as the montería infernal, the infernal chase, or manhunt, in which Indians were hunted by war-dogs.

These dogs—who also wore armor and had been fed human flesh, were a fierce match for the Indians. Live babies were also fed to these war dogs as sport, sometimes in front of horrified parents."

So they ran around America and killed something like 90 million Indians with their hands and guns now???

 

[Wyatt earp]

So what?


Beside it was small pox and other diseases that wiped them out

So it was genocide.

No. It wasnt small pox that wiped out the natives columbus killed. That was done by white guys killing people and feeding their dogs the human meat.

Bullshit...

Sorry but its true. He frequently killed NA children and fed them to his dogs.

You got a link for that?

Theres millions of links. Heres two.

8 Myths and Atrocities About Christopher Columbus and Columbus Day - IndianCountryToday.com

9.11 - Columbus' History of Genocide

Millions of lies, once again it was small pox and other diseases and when they moved west killed almost all the buffalo.

 

[Asclepias]

Its also exploitation but when you purposely kill off a culture race etc its genocide.

No the goal was to exterminate them and steal their shit.

So what?


Beside it was small pox and other diseases that wiped them out

So it was genocide.

No. It wasnt small pox that wiped out the natives columbus killed. That was done by white guys killing people and feeding their dogs the human meat.

Bullshit...

Sorry but its true. He frequently killed NA children and fed them to his dogs.

"
In the early years of Columbus’ conquests there were butcher shops throughout the Caribbean where Indian bodies were sold as dog food. There was also a practice known as the montería infernal, the infernal chase, or manhunt, in which Indians were hunted by war-dogs.

These dogs—who also wore armor and had been fed human flesh, were a fierce match for the Indians. Live babies were also fed to these war dogs as sport, sometimes in front of horrified parents."

So they ran around America and killed something like 90 million Indians with their hands and guns now???

They? I'm talking specifically about columbus and what he did to the Arawak people. He never ever set foot on N. America so he couldnt have killed 90 million natives.

 

[martybegan]

So what?


Beside it was small pox and other diseases that wiped them out

So it was genocide.

No. It wasnt small pox that wiped out the natives columbus killed. That was done by white guys killing people and feeding their dogs the human meat.

Bullshit...

Sorry but its true. He frequently killed NA children and fed them to his dogs.

You got a link for that?

Theres millions of links. Heres two.

8 Myths and Atrocities About Christopher Columbus and Columbus Day - IndianCountryToday.com

9.11 - Columbus' History of Genocide

How about a real source?

Ward Churchill, seriously?