Happy Easter everyone!

[DriftingSand]

Bible Scholar: Half of New Testament ‘Forged’

At least 11 of the 27 New Testament books are forgeries.
The New Testament books attributed to Jesus’ disciples could not have been written by them because they were illiterate.
Many of the New Testament’s forgeries were manufactured by early Christian leaders trying to settle theological feuds.
Those are the claims coming from one biblical scholar in a new book, “Forged.” The author is Bart D. Ehrman, a Wheaton College graduate and current professor at the University of North Carolina – Chapel Hill.

“Bart D. Ehrman, the New York Times bestselling author of Jesus, Interrupted and God’s Problem reveals which books in the Bible’s New Testament were not passed down by Jesus’s disciples,” The Harper-Collins book description says, “but were instead forged by other hands—and why this centuries-hidden scandal is far more significant than many scholars are willing to admit.”

One of Ehrman’s major targets is the Apostle Paul, who he says didn’t write 2 Timothy. In all, he claims only seven of the 13 letters attributed to Paul were actually written by him. CNN explains:

Ehrman reserves most of his scrutiny for the writings of Paul, which make up the bulk of the New Testament. He says that only about half of the New Testament letters attributed to Paul – 7 of 13 – were actually written by him.

Bible Scholar: Half of New Testament ?Forged? | TheBlaze.com

Ha! Claiming that the disciples were "illiterate" is completely unprovable; therefore, pure speculation. Modern folks have a tendency to think that people living 2000 years ago or more were just a step above cavemen when the fact of the matter is that there were entire civilizations filled with highly intelligent men.

Can the New Testament Canon be Defended? Derek Thomas Interviews Michael Kruger - Reformation21

Put simply, when it comes to canon issues I think Christians, generally speaking, are in a bit of an epistemological crisis. They believe something but are not aware of the foundations for that belief. For these reasons, my book Canon Revisited is a different sort of book on canon than some might expect. I am not directly addressing the question of whether the canon is true--the book is not designed to somehow prove the truth of the canon to the skeptic. Rather, I am addressing the question of whether Christians have sufficient grounds for knowing whether it is true.

In response, we simply need to point out that these assumptions of modern scholars are simply that - assumptions. They are entirely unproven. How do critical scholars know that the canon was an entirely human construct? How do they know that God had no hand in it? For someone to rule out divine intervention would require them to either know the mind and actions of God or to know that God doesn't exist. But, the critical scholar has no basis for knowing either of these things. Thus, it is clear that these naturalistic assumptions are more the starting point of critical scholarship, not its conclusion.

Can the New Testament Canon be Defended? Derek Thomas Interviews Michael Kruger - Reformation21

Our all-knowing and perfectly ABLE God has revealed His will to us in today's Bible. The Bible contains what we (in our current state) need to know about God and ourselves. It's an ongoing, historical record of man's origins; man's fall from grace into sin; his relationship with his Creator over time; a documentation of rewards for the faithful and punishment for spiritual adulterers and evil in general; a list of various covenants between God and His people; an expose of man's fallen state and inability to reach perfection or salvation on his own; the Good News of a Savior and what that means to the sinful believer.

The New Testament generally deals with the life of Christ; His purpose; His message; His sacrifice; His resurrection; His ascension; and His future return. It discusses how Christians (believers in Jesus Christ) should treat each other and how we should deal with non-believers. In general, the Bible is a really GOOD Book. It's purpose is to lead folks to the cross and show us how we can receive Salvation leading to everlasting life in God's Kingdom of Heaven. It shows us how we can avoid hell and the second death. I find it quite beneficial.

 

[thebrucebeat]

Bible Scholar: Half of New Testament ‘Forged’

At least 11 of the 27 New Testament books are forgeries.
The New Testament books attributed to Jesus’ disciples could not have been written by them because they were illiterate.
Many of the New Testament’s forgeries were manufactured by early Christian leaders trying to settle theological feuds.
Those are the claims coming from one biblical scholar in a new book, “Forged.” The author is Bart D. Ehrman, a Wheaton College graduate and current professor at the University of North Carolina – Chapel Hill.

“Bart D. Ehrman, the New York Times bestselling author of Jesus, Interrupted and God’s Problem reveals which books in the Bible’s New Testament were not passed down by Jesus’s disciples,” The Harper-Collins book description says, “but were instead forged by other hands—and why this centuries-hidden scandal is far more significant than many scholars are willing to admit.”

One of Ehrman’s major targets is the Apostle Paul, who he says didn’t write 2 Timothy. In all, he claims only seven of the 13 letters attributed to Paul were actually written by him. CNN explains:

Ehrman reserves most of his scrutiny for the writings of Paul, which make up the bulk of the New Testament. He says that only about half of the New Testament letters attributed to Paul – 7 of 13 – were actually written by him.

Bible Scholar: Half of New Testament ?Forged? | TheBlaze.com

Ha! Claiming that the disciples were "illiterate" is completely unprovable; therefore, pure speculation. Modern folks have a tendency to think that people living 2000 years ago or more were just a step above cavemen when the fact of the matter is that there were entire civilizations filled with highly intelligent men.

Can the New Testament Canon be Defended? Derek Thomas Interviews Michael Kruger - Reformation21

In response, we simply need to point out that these assumptions of modern scholars are simply that - assumptions. They are entirely unproven. How do critical scholars know that the canon was an entirely human construct? How do they know that God had no hand in it? For someone to rule out divine intervention would require them to either know the mind and actions of God or to know that God doesn't exist. But, the critical scholar has no basis for knowing either of these things. Thus, it is clear that these naturalistic assumptions are more the starting point of critical scholarship, not its conclusion.

Can the New Testament Canon be Defended? Derek Thomas Interviews Michael Kruger - Reformation21

Our all-knowing and perfectly ABLE God has revealed His will to us in today's Bible. The Bible contains what we (in our current state) need to know about God and ourselves. It's an ongoing, historical record of man's origins; man's fall from grace into sin; his relationship with his Creator over time; a documentation of rewards for the faithful and punishment for spiritual adulterers and evil in general; a list of various covenants between God and His people; an expose of man's fallen state and inability to reach perfection or salvation on his own; the Good News of a Savior and what that means to the sinful believer.

The New Testament generally deals with the life of Christ; His purpose; His message; His sacrifice; His resurrection; His ascension; and His future return. It discusses how Christians (believers in Jesus Christ) should treat each other and how we should deal with non-believers. In general, the Bible is a really GOOD Book. It's purpose is to lead folks to the cross and show us how we can receive Salvation leading to everlasting life in God's Kingdom of Heaven. It shows us how we can avoid hell and the second death. I find it quite beneficial.

Why does all your personal symbolism revolve around guns and violence?
How does Christ take you to a concentration on militia and assault rifles?

 

[DriftingSand]

Why does all your personal symbolism revolve around guns and violence?
How does Christ take you to a concentration on militia and assault rifles?

Kind of off topic but I'll address your question.

1) I like guns. By themselves they are inanimate objects like a pillow or a truck tire. They're just things or, in some cases, tools. I enjoy target shooting and I've gone hunting for game on numerous occasions. I keep what I shoot and use the meat. I consider them works of engineering art and consider them investments that can increase in value in some cases. I happen to like the AR-15 especially. It's accurate and fun to shoot.

2) I don't advocate violence unless it's from a self-defense standpoint. I chose my avatar because I thought it looked cool. I chose my signature line because the AR-15 IS cool.

 

[thebrucebeat]

Why does all your personal symbolism revolve around guns and violence?
How does Christ take you to a concentration on militia and assault rifles?

Kind of off topic but I'll address your question.

1) I like guns. By themselves they are inanimate objects like a pillow or a truck tire. They're just things or, in some cases, tools. I enjoy target shooting and I've gone hunting for game on numerous occasions. I keep what I shoot and use the meat. I consider them works of engineering art and consider them investments that can increase in value in some cases. I happen to like the AR-15 especially. It's accurate and fun to shoot.

2) I don't advocate violence unless it's from a self-defense standpoint. I chose my avatar because I thought it looked cool. I chose my signature line because the AR-15 IS cool.

Why do I have this annoying feeling that this isn't the whole truth?
Why do you not answer the question of how Christ's influence leads you in this direction?

 

[DriftingSand]

=thebrucebeat;8964567]

Why do I have this annoying feeling that this isn't the whole truth?

I'm not sure why. I'm guessing that perhaps you're more influenced by feelings than by facts but I'm just guessing.

Why do you not answer the question of how Christ's influence leads you in this direction?

I don't remember saying that Christ influenced me towards my enjoyment of guns but if I did I apologize. I meant to say that my personal interest in guns lead me to my personal interest in guns. Christ lead me away from alcoholism, drug abuse, womanizing, and other sinful behavior and towards more productive endeavors. Most of all, Christ left me with the assurance of everlasting life in His Kingdom.

 

[Pogo]

"Easter".... "estrus"...

>> The modern belief that eggs are delivered by a rabbit, comes from the legend of the Goddess Eostre. Eostre was walking one fine Spring day and came upon a beautiful little bird. The poor bird’s wing was badly injured and Eostre, feeling great compassion for the little creature, wanted to heal it. But the little bird’ wing was so badly damaged that Eostre knew it would never be able to fly again even after She healed it. So, Eostre decided to help the bird by healing it in a way that would give it mobility and a little something more? She turned it into a rabbit!
During the transformation, the rabbit retained the ability to lay eggs. The rabbit was so grateful to Eostre for saving its life that it laid a sacred egg in Her honor, joyously decorated it and then humbly presented it to the Goddess. She was so pleased and so touched by the rabbit’s thoughtful gift that She wished all humankind to share in her joy. In honoring her wishes, the rabbit went all over the world distributing these beautifully decorated little gifts of life and continues to do so even today. >>

 

[Pogo]

Why does all your personal symbolism revolve around guns and violence?
How does Christ take you to a concentration on militia and assault rifles?

Kind of off topic but I'll address your question.

1) I like guns. By themselves they are inanimate objects like a pillow or a truck tire. They're just things or, in some cases, tools. I enjoy target shooting and I've gone hunting for game on numerous occasions. I keep what I shoot and use the meat. I consider them works of engineering art and consider them investments that can increase in value in some cases. I happen to like the AR-15 especially. It's accurate and fun to shoot.

2) I don't advocate violence unless it's from a self-defense standpoint. I chose my avatar because I thought it looked cool. I chose my signature line because the AR-15 IS cool.

Why do I have this annoying feeling that this isn't the whole truth?
Why do you not answer the question of how Christ's influence leads you in this direction?

"Christianity is the worship of everything that is dead" -- Mary Daly, writer and former nun

 

[DriftingSand]

Kind of off topic but I'll address your question.

1) I like guns. By themselves they are inanimate objects like a pillow or a truck tire. They're just things or, in some cases, tools. I enjoy target shooting and I've gone hunting for game on numerous occasions. I keep what I shoot and use the meat. I consider them works of engineering art and consider them investments that can increase in value in some cases. I happen to like the AR-15 especially. It's accurate and fun to shoot.

2) I don't advocate violence unless it's from a self-defense standpoint. I chose my avatar because I thought it looked cool. I chose my signature line because the AR-15 IS cool.

Why do I have this annoying feeling that this isn't the whole truth?
Why do you not answer the question of how Christ's influence leads you in this direction?

"Christianity is the worship of everything that is dead" -- Mary Daly, writer and former nun

The caterpillar's life ends to give way to the butterfly.

 

[thebrucebeat]

Why do I have this annoying feeling that this isn't the whole truth?
Why do you not answer the question of how Christ's influence leads you in this direction?

"Christianity is the worship of everything that is dead" -- Mary Daly, writer and former nun

The caterpillar's life ends to give way to the butterfly.

And then you blow it away with an AR-15!

 

[Pogo]

"Christianity is the worship of everything that is dead" -- Mary Daly, writer and former nun

The caterpillar's life ends to give way to the butterfly.

And then you blow it away with an AR-15!

Or if that's too expensive, with this --

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOrgLj9lOwk"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOrgLj9lOwk[/ame]​

 

[Truthseeker420]

 

[guno]

The word “Messiah” is an English rendering of the Hebrew word “Mashiach”, which means “Anointed.” It usually refers to a person initiated into God’s service by being anointed with oil. (Exodus 29:7, I Kings 1:39, II Kings 9:3)

Since every King and High Priest was anointed with oil, each may be referred to as “an anointed one” (a Mashiach or a Messiah). For example: “God forbid that I [David] should stretch out my hand against the Lord’s Messiah [Saul]...” (I Samuel 26:11. Cf. II Samuel 23:1, Isaiah 45:1, Psalms 20:6)

Where does the Jewish concept of Messiah come from? One of the central themes of Biblical prophecy is the promise of a future age of perfection characterized by universal peace and recognition of God. (Isaiah 2:1-4; Zephaniah 3:9; Hosea 2:20-22; Amos 9:13-15; Isaiah 32:15-18, 60:15-18; Micah 4:1-4; Zechariah 8:23, 14:9; Jeremiah 31:33-34)

Many of these prophetic passages speak of a descendant of King David who will rule Israel during the age of perfection. (Isaiah 11:1-9; Jeremiah 23:5-6, 30:7-10, 33:14-16; Ezekiel 34:11-31, 37:21-28; Hosea 3:4-5)

Since every King is a Messiah, by convention, we refer to this future anointed king as The Messiah. The above is the only description in the Bible of a Davidic descendant who is to come in the future. We will recognize the Messiah by seeing who the King of Israel is at the time of complete universal perfection.

1) JESUS DID NOT FULFILL THE MESSIANIC PROPHECIES
(back)

What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? The Bible says that he will:

A. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).

B. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).

C. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)

D. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world—on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).

The historical fact is that Jesus fulfilled none of these messianic prophecies.

Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming, but Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright, and no concept of a second coming exists.

2) JESUS DID NOT EMBODY THE PERSONAL QUALIFICATIONS OF MESSIAH



A. MESSIAH AS PROPHET
Jesus was not a prophet. Prophecy can only exist in Israel when the land is inhabited by a majority of world Jewry. During the time of Ezra (circa 300 BCE), when the majority of Jews refused to move from Babylon to Israel, prophecy ended upon the death of the last prophets—Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi.

Jesus appeared on the scene approximately 350 years after prophecy had ended.

B. DESCENDENT OF DAVID
According to Jewish sources, the Messiah will be born of human parents and possess normal physical attributes like other people. He will not be a demi-god, (1) nor will he possess supernatural qualities.

The Messiah must be descended on his father’s side from King David (see Genesis 49:10 and Isaiah 11:1). According to the Christian claim that Jesus was the product of a virgin birth, he had no father—and thus could not have possibly fulfilled the messianic requirement of being descended on his father’s side from King David! (2)
SEE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH’S RESPONSE TO THIS QUESTION

C. TORAH OBSERVANCE
The Messiah will lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance. The Torah states that all mitzvot (commandments) remain binding forever, and anyone coming to change the Torah is immediately identified as a false prophet. (Deut. 13:1-4)

Throughout the New Testament, Jesus contradicts the Torah and states that its commandments are no longer applicable. (see John 1:45 and 9:16, Acts 3:22 and 7:37) For example, John 9:14 records that Jesus made a paste in violation of Shabbat, which caused the Pharisees to say (verse 16), "He does not observe Shabbat!"

3) MISTRANSLATED VERSES "REFERRING" TO JESUS
(back)

Biblical verses can only be understood by studying the original Hebrew text—which reveals many discrepancies in the Christian translation.

A. VIRGIN BIRTH
The Christian idea of a virgin birth is derived from the verse in Isaiah 7:14 describing an "alma" as giving birth. The word "alma" has always meant a young woman, but Christian theologians came centuries later and translated it as "virgin." This accords Jesus’ birth with the first century pagan idea of mortals being impregnated by gods.

B. CRUCIFIXION
The verse in Psalms 22:17 reads: "Like a lion, they are at my hands and feet." The Hebrew word ki-ari (like a lion) is grammatically similar to the word "gouged." Thus Christianity reads the verse as a reference to crucifixion: "They pierced my hands and feet."

C. SUFFERING SERVANT
Christianity claims that Isaiah chapter 53 refers to Jesus, as the "suffering servant."

In actuality, Isaiah 53 directly follows the theme of chapter 52, describing the exile and redemption of the Jewish people. The prophecies are written in the singular form because the Jews ("Israel") are regarded as one unit. The Torah is filled with examples of the Jewish nation referred to with a singular pronoun.

Ironically, Isaiah’s prophecies of persecution refer in part to the 11th century when Jews were tortured and killed by Crusaders who acted in the name of Jesus.

From where did these mistranslations stem? St. Gregory, 4th century Bishop of Nazianzus, wrote: "A little jargon is all that is necessary to impose on the people. The less they comprehend, the more they admire."
For further reading on the "suffering servant":
jewsforjudaism.org/ss

4) JEWISH BELIEF IS BASED SOLELY ON NATIONAL REVELATION

Of the 15,000 religions in human history, only Judaism bases its belief on national revelation—i.e. God speaking to the entire nation. If God is going to start a religion, it makes sense He’ll tell everyone, not just one person.

Throughout history, thousands of religions have been started by individuals, attempting to convince people that he or she is God’s true prophet. But personal revelation is an extremely weak basis for a religion because one can never know if it is indeed true. Since others did not hear God speak to this person, they have to take his word for it. Even if the individual claiming personal revelation performs miracles, there is still no verification that he is a genuine prophet. Miracles do not prove anything. All they show—assuming they are genuine—is that he has certain powers. It has nothing to do with his claim of prophecy.

Judaism, unique among all of the world’s major religions, does not rely on "claims of miracles" as the basis for its religion. In fact, the Bible says that God sometimes grants the power of "miracles" to charlatans, in order to test Jewish loyalty to the Torah (Deut. 13:4).

Maimonides states (Foundations of Torah, ch. 8):


The Jews did not believe in Moses, our teacher, because of the miracles he performed. Whenever anyone’s belief is based on seeing miracles, he has lingering doubts, because it is possible the miracles were performed through magic or sorcery. All of the miracles performed by Moses in the desert were because they were necessary, and not as proof of his prophecy.

What then was the basis of [Jewish] belief? The Revelation at Mount Sinai, which we saw with our own eyes and heard with our own ears, not dependent on the testimony of others… as it says, "Face to face, God spoke with you…" The Torah also states: "God did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us—who are all here alive today." (Deut. 5:3)


Judaism is not miracles. It is the personal eyewitness experience of every man, woman and child, standing at Mount Sinai 3,300 years ago.

See "Did God Speak at Mount Sinai" for further reading.

5) CHRISTIANITY CONTRADICTS JEWISH THEOLOGY


The following theological points apply primarily to the Roman Catholic Church, the largest Christian denomination.

A. GOD AS THREE?
The Catholic idea of Trinity breaks God into three separate beings: The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost (Matthew 28:19).

Contrast this to the Shema, the basis of Jewish belief: "Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is ONE" (Deut. 6:4). Jews declare the Shema every day, while writing it on doorposts (Mezuzah), and binding it to the hand and head (Tefillin). This statement of God’s One-ness is the first words a Jewish child is taught to say, and the last words uttered before a Jew dies.

In Jewish law, worship of a three-part god is considered idolatry—one of the three cardinal sins that a Jew should rather give up his life than transgress. This explains why during the Inquisitions and throughout history, Jews gave up their lives rather than convert.

B. MAN AS GOD?
Roman Catholics believe that God came down to earth in human form, as Jesus said: "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30).

Maimonides devotes most of the "Guide for the Perplexed" to the fundamental idea that God is incorporeal, meaning that He assumes no physical form. God is Eternal, above time. He is Infinite, beyond space. He cannot be born, and cannot die. Saying that God assumes human form makes God small, diminishing both His unity and His divinity. As the Torah says: "God is not a mortal" (Numbers 23:19).

Judaism says that the Messiah will be born of human parents, and possess normal physical attributes like other people. He will not be a demi-god, and will not possess supernatural qualities. In fact, an individual is alive in every generation with the capacity to step into the role of the Messiah. (see Maimonides - Laws of Kings 11:3)

C. INTERMEDIARY FOR PRAYER?
The Catholic belief is that prayer must be directed through an intermediary—i.e. confessing one’s sins to a priest. Jesus himself is an intermediary, as Jesus said: "No man cometh unto the Father but by me."

In Judaism, prayer is a totally private matter, between each individual and God. As the Bible says: "God is near to all who call unto Him" (Psalms 145:18). Further, the Ten Commandments state: "You shall have no other gods BEFORE ME," meaning that it is forbidden to set up a mediator between God and man. (see Maimonides - Laws of Idolatry ch. 1)

D. INVOLVEMENT IN THE PHYSICAL WORLD
Catholic doctrine often treats the physical world as an evil to be avoided. Mary, the holiest woman, is portrayed as a virgin. Priests and nuns are celibate. And monasteries are in remote, secluded locations.

By contrast, Judaism believes that God created the physical world not to frustrate us, but for our pleasure. Jewish spirituality comes through grappling with the mundane world in a way that uplifts and elevates. Sex in the proper context is one of the holiest acts we can perform.

The Talmud says if a person has the opportunity to taste a new fruit and refuses to do so, he will have to account for that in the World to Come. Jewish rabbinical schools teach how to live amidst the bustle of commercial activity. Jews don’t retreat from life, we elevate it.

so it was very easy for pagans to accept yeshu as their messiah as it closely resembled their former god men , and it was codified that yeshu was named official god man in 325 CE

And when Jews rejected the state religion of Christianity the murders and torture started

http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/jewsandjesus/

 

[DriftingSand]

"Christianity is the worship of everything that is dead" -- Mary Daly, writer and former nun

The caterpillar's life ends to give way to the butterfly.

And then you blow it away with an AR-15!

Statements like that make it appear that you live in a fantasy world -- considering the fact that I've never even killed a butterfly (unless it hit my windshield while driving). You seem to have some difficulty staying focused and on topic.

 

[guno]

Written by Bart Ehrman, a former evangelical Christian and now agnostic professor of religious studies at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, the book claims to unveil "one of the most unsettling ironies of the early Christian tradition": the use of deception to promote the truth.

"The Bible not only contains untruths of accidental mistakes. It also contains what almost anyone today would call lies," Ehrman writes in "Forged: Writing in the Name of God — Why the Bible’s Authors Are Not Who We Think They Are."

According to the biblical scholar, at least 11 of the 27 New Testament books are forgeries, while only seven of the 13 epistles attributed to Paul were probably written by him.

"Virtually all scholars agree that seven of the Pauline letters are authentic: Romans, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Philippians, 1 Thessalonians and Philemon," says Ehrman.

Individuals claiming to be Paul wrote 1 and 2 Timothy, Titus, 2 Thessalonians, Ephesians and Colossians, he adds.

Contradictory views, discrepancies in the language and the choice of words among the books attributed to Paul are all evidence of this forgery, the author asserts.

For example, Ehrman’s analysis of the book of Ephesians shows that the text, filled with long Greek sentences, doesn’t match with Paul’s peculiar Greek writing style, made of short sentences.

Moreover, the content of what the author says "stands at odds with Paul’s own thought, but is in line with the Ephesians," writes Ehrman.

The biblical scholar, who also challenges the authenticity of the Gospels of Matthew, Mark and John, disputes the assumption that the Apostle Peter wrote the Epistles of Peter or anything else.


Unlike Paul, Peter, a fisherman raised in rural Palestine, was most certainly illiterate. So was the Apostle John, who could have not written the Gospel bearing his name, says Ehrman.

n the early centuries of the church, Christians felt under attack from all sides. "They were in conflict with Jews and pagans over the validity of their religion … but the hottest debates were with other Christians, as they argued over the right thing to believe and the rights ways to live," said Ehrman.

Thus Christians aiming to authorize views they wanted others to accept wrote in the name of the Apostles, "fabricating, falsifying and forging documents," says Ehrman.

"If your name was Jehoshaphat and no one had any idea who you were, you could not very well sign your own name to the book," explains Ehrman.

"No one would take the Gospel of Jehoshaphat seriously. If you wanted someone to read it, you called yourself Peter. Or Thomas. Or James. In other words, you lied about who you really were," Ehrman concludes.

According to the scholar, the idea that "writing in the name of another" was a common, accepted practice in antiquity is wrong. Forgery was considered just as deceitful, inappropriate and wrong as it is today.

Forgeries in the Bible's New Testament? : Discovery News

 

[DriftingSand]

[MENTION=48060]guno[/MENTION], [MENTION=41527]Pogo[/MENTION], [MENTION=48205]thebrucebeat[/MENTION]:

I hope you all had a find Resurrection Day. May Christ bless you with truth and wisdom while easing your pain and anger issues. I truly mean that. Have a good week.

 

[guno]

Written by Bart Ehrman, a former evangelical Christian and now agnostic professor of religious studies at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, the book claims to unveil "one of the most unsettling ironies of the early Christian tradition": the use of deception to promote the truth.

"The Bible not only contains untruths of accidental mistakes. It also contains what almost anyone today would call lies," Ehrman writes in "Forged: Writing in the Name of God — Why the Bible’s Authors Are Not Who We Think They Are."

According to the biblical scholar, at least 11 of the 27 New Testament books are forgeries, while only seven of the 13 epistles attributed to Paul were probably written by him.

"Virtually all scholars agree that seven of the Pauline letters are authentic: Romans, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Philippians, 1 Thessalonians and Philemon," says Ehrman.

Individuals claiming to be Paul wrote 1 and 2 Timothy, Titus, 2 Thessalonians, Ephesians and Colossians, he adds.

Contradictory views, discrepancies in the language and the choice of words among the books attributed to Paul are all evidence of this forgery, the author asserts.

For example, Ehrman’s analysis of the book of Ephesians shows that the text, filled with long Greek sentences, doesn’t match with Paul’s peculiar Greek writing style, made of short sentences.

Moreover, the content of what the author says "stands at odds with Paul’s own thought, but is in line with the Ephesians," writes Ehrman.

The biblical scholar, who also challenges the authenticity of the Gospels of Matthew, Mark and John, disputes the assumption that the Apostle Peter wrote the Epistles of Peter or anything else.


Unlike Paul, Peter, a fisherman raised in rural Palestine, was most certainly illiterate. So was the Apostle John, who could have not written the Gospel bearing his name, says Ehrman.

n the early centuries of the church, Christians felt under attack from all sides. "They were in conflict with Jews and pagans over the validity of their religion … but the hottest debates were with other Christians, as they argued over the right thing to believe and the rights ways to live," said Ehrman.

Thus Christians aiming to authorize views they wanted others to accept wrote in the name of the Apostles, "fabricating, falsifying and forging documents," says Ehrman.

"If your name was Jehoshaphat and no one had any idea who you were, you could not very well sign your own name to the book," explains Ehrman.

"No one would take the Gospel of Jehoshaphat seriously. If you wanted someone to read it, you called yourself Peter. Or Thomas. Or James. In other words, you lied about who you really were," Ehrman concludes.

According to the scholar, the idea that "writing in the name of another" was a common, accepted practice in antiquity is wrong. Forgery was considered just as deceitful, inappropriate and wrong as it is today.

Forgeries in the Bible's New Testament? : Discovery News

In a court of law, a charge of plagiarism may be supported by evidence of the general dishonesty of that person. And, no greater evidence could be produced than the testimony of church fathers themselves. By their own admissions, they show themselves to be destitute of honesty.

Lactantius, a Christian apologist of the 4th century, wrote: "Among those who seek power and gain from religion, there will never be wanting an inclination to forge and lie for it." Quoted by C. Middleton, Misc. Works of Conyers Middleton, D.D., vol. 3, p. 51 (1752)

Hermas, an early church father, wrote: "O Lord, I never spoke a true word in my life, I have always affirmed a lie as truth to all men, and no man contradicted me; instead, they all gave credit to my works." Visions of Hermas, vol. 2, c.3.

Gregory of Nazanzius, a 4th century church father and bishop of Caesarea, wrote to St. Jerome: "A little jargon is all that is necessary to impose on the people. The less they comprehend, the more they admire." Quoted by C. Volney, The Ruins, p. 177 (1872).

Angustine of Hippo, the greatest figure in Christian antiquity, wrote: "It is lawful, then, to him that discusses, disputes and preaches of things eternal, or to him that narrates of things temporal pertaining to religion or piety, to conceal at fitting times whatever seems fit to be concealed." Augustine, On Lying, c. 19

Eusebius, a 4th century Bishop and ecclesiastical historian, wrote that he unscrupulously suppressed all that would be a disgrace to early Christianity. Ecclesiastical History, vol. 8, c.21.

Edward Gibbon confirms this. He writes: "The gravest of all the ecclesiastical historians, Eusebius himself, indirectly confesses that he has related whatever might redound to the glory, and that he has suppressed all that would tend to the disgrace, of religion. Such an acknowledgement will naturally excite a suspicion that a writer who has so openly violated one of the fundamental laws of history has not paid a very strict observation of the other." E. Gibbon, Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, c. 16 (1883).

None other than Paul of Tarsus admits of trickery (2 Cor. 12.16), imposture (1 Cor. 9.19-20), and deception. He wrote: "For if the truth of God hath more abounded by my lie unto his glory, why yet am I also adjudged a sinner?" Romans 3.7 (King James Version)

 

[guno]

Written by Bart Ehrman, a former evangelical Christian and now agnostic professor of religious studies at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, the book claims to unveil "one of the most unsettling ironies of the early Christian tradition": the use of deception to promote the truth.

"The Bible not only contains untruths of accidental mistakes. It also contains what almost anyone today would call lies," Ehrman writes in "Forged: Writing in the Name of God — Why the Bible’s Authors Are Not Who We Think They Are."

According to the biblical scholar, at least 11 of the 27 New Testament books are forgeries, while only seven of the 13 epistles attributed to Paul were probably written by him.

"Virtually all scholars agree that seven of the Pauline letters are authentic: Romans, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Philippians, 1 Thessalonians and Philemon," says Ehrman.

Individuals claiming to be Paul wrote 1 and 2 Timothy, Titus, 2 Thessalonians, Ephesians and Colossians, he adds.

Contradictory views, discrepancies in the language and the choice of words among the books attributed to Paul are all evidence of this forgery, the author asserts.

For example, Ehrman’s analysis of the book of Ephesians shows that the text, filled with long Greek sentences, doesn’t match with Paul’s peculiar Greek writing style, made of short sentences.

Moreover, the content of what the author says "stands at odds with Paul’s own thought, but is in line with the Ephesians," writes Ehrman.

The biblical scholar, who also challenges the authenticity of the Gospels of Matthew, Mark and John, disputes the assumption that the Apostle Peter wrote the Epistles of Peter or anything else.


Unlike Paul, Peter, a fisherman raised in rural Palestine, was most certainly illiterate. So was the Apostle John, who could have not written the Gospel bearing his name, says Ehrman.

n the early centuries of the church, Christians felt under attack from all sides. "They were in conflict with Jews and pagans over the validity of their religion … but the hottest debates were with other Christians, as they argued over the right thing to believe and the rights ways to live," said Ehrman.

Thus Christians aiming to authorize views they wanted others to accept wrote in the name of the Apostles, "fabricating, falsifying and forging documents," says Ehrman.

"If your name was Jehoshaphat and no one had any idea who you were, you could not very well sign your own name to the book," explains Ehrman.

"No one would take the Gospel of Jehoshaphat seriously. If you wanted someone to read it, you called yourself Peter. Or Thomas. Or James. In other words, you lied about who you really were," Ehrman concludes.

According to the scholar, the idea that "writing in the name of another" was a common, accepted practice in antiquity is wrong. Forgery was considered just as deceitful, inappropriate and wrong as it is today.

Forgeries in the Bible's New Testament? : Discovery News

In a court of law, a charge of plagiarism may be supported by evidence of the general dishonesty of that person. And, no greater evidence could be produced than the testimony of church fathers themselves. By their own admissions, they show themselves to be destitute of honesty.

Lactantius, a Christian apologist of the 4th century, wrote: "Among those who seek power and gain from religion, there will never be wanting an inclination to forge and lie for it." Quoted by C. Middleton, Misc. Works of Conyers Middleton, D.D., vol. 3, p. 51 (1752)

Hermas, an early church father, wrote: "O Lord, I never spoke a true word in my life, I have always affirmed a lie as truth to all men, and no man contradicted me; instead, they all gave credit to my works." Visions of Hermas, vol. 2, c.3.

Gregory of Nazanzius, a 4th century church father and bishop of Caesarea, wrote to St. Jerome: "A little jargon is all that is necessary to impose on the people. The less they comprehend, the more they admire." Quoted by C. Volney, The Ruins, p. 177 (1872).

Angustine of Hippo, the greatest figure in Christian antiquity, wrote: "It is lawful, then, to him that discusses, disputes and preaches of things eternal, or to him that narrates of things temporal pertaining to religion or piety, to conceal at fitting times whatever seems fit to be concealed." Augustine, On Lying, c. 19

Eusebius, a 4th century Bishop and ecclesiastical historian, wrote that he unscrupulously suppressed all that would be a disgrace to early Christianity. Ecclesiastical History, vol. 8, c.21.

Edward Gibbon confirms this. He writes: "The gravest of all the ecclesiastical historians, Eusebius himself, indirectly confesses that he has related whatever might redound to the glory, and that he has suppressed all that would tend to the disgrace, of religion. Such an acknowledgement will naturally excite a suspicion that a writer who has so openly violated one of the fundamental laws of history has not paid a very strict observation of the other." E. Gibbon, Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, c. 16 (1883).

None other than Paul of Tarsus admits of trickery (2 Cor. 12.16), imposture (1 Cor. 9.19-20), and deception. He wrote: "For if the truth of God hath more abounded by my lie unto his glory, why yet am I also adjudged a sinner?" Romans 3.7 (King James Version)

Augustine of Hippo told the following as truth: "I was already bishop of Hippo, when I went into Ethopia with some servants of Christ to preach the Gospel. In this country we saw many men and women without heads, who had two great eyes in their breasts; and in countries farther south, we saw people who had but one eye in their foreheads." Augustine, Sermon 37

Eusebius relates as truth a ridiculous story of writing a letter to Jesus the Christ and then receiving an answer. Ecclesiastical History, vol. 1, c. 13.

Eusebius assures us that "on some occasions the bodies of martyrs who had been devoured by wild beasts, upon the beasts being strangled, were found alive in their stomachs." Quoted by E. Gibbon, History of Christianity, p. 601 (1883).

Eusebius claims to be an eyewitness when he reports martyrs who stood naked and were unmolested by attacking wild beasts. he says the beasts "were stopped short as if by some divine power, and then retreated to the starting point." Ecclestiastical History, vol. 8, c. 8.

Socrates Scholasticus relates as truth the story of the mother of emperor Constantine traveling to Jerusalem and actually finding the cross of Jesus, nails and all. Socrates, Ecclesiastical History, vol. 1, c. 13.

Quotes such as these show the early Christians were people with no respect for truth at all. Instead, they imposed on the gullibility of the common person as they saw fit.

FORGERIES BY THE HUNDREDS:

There are actually some 200 gospels, epistles and other books concerning the life of Jesus the Christ. Of these, only 27 are accepted by the church. The other 173 have been declared by the church itself to be "pious frauds."

One Christian writer, professor of Theology at the University of Birmingham, dismisses these hundreds of forged writings with these words:

"(they are merely) another genre of literature, devised for reading by the faithful during their leisure time, and corresponding in some ways to the novels of a later era." J. G. Davies, The Early Christian Church, p. 83 (1965).

While these apocryphal writings have all the fictional qualities of a modern novel, they are certainly not another genre of literature. As a matter of fact, there is no way to distinguish them from the accepted Gospels. The apocryphal Book of James narrates the miraculous birth and infancy of the Virgin Mary. The apocryphal Gospel According To Thomas contains accounts of Jesus' life up till the age of twelve. These apocryphal writings fit alongside the accepted writings.

The origin of these fraudulent documents was none other than the church. Gibbon tells us: "Orthodox theologians were tempted, by the assurance of impunity, to compose fictions, which must be stigmatized with the epithets of fraud and forgery. They ascribed their own polemical works to the most venerable names of Christian antiquity." E. Gibbon, History of Christianity, p. 598 (1883)

These apocryphal (i.e., fraudulent) writings are almost exclusively written in the names of apostles or disciples of Jesus the Christ. The professor of Early Christian History at the Divinity School, University of Chicago, admits that:

" . . . they arose during the 2nd century, when popular piety seems to have been rather freely expressed." R. Grant, New Testament Apocrypha, in the article, "Biblical Literature," in Encyclopedia Brittanica, vol. 2, p. 973 (1977).

Some examples of these "pious frauds" are the Gospels written in Jesus Christ's own hand; the personal correspondence of Jesus Christ; letters written by the Virgin Mary; Pilates official report to the Emperor of the trial and crucifixion of Jesus; the offician documents of the Roman Senate about Jesus; official documents about church law written by the apostles; 50 other gospels, more epistles, acts of the apostles, and other writings. The writer of the Gospel of Luke tells us there were many other accounts of the life of Jesus circulating about when he wrote his. Luke 1.1.

How exactly did the church separate the documents which were supposedly divinely inspired, from the "pious frauds"? How did the church distinguish the Apocalypse of Peter from the Apocalypse of John? How were the Acts of John, of Paul, of Peter, of Phillip, of Thaddeus, of Thomas (all declared forgeries by the early church) distinguished from the Acts of the Apostles?

They took a vote! What was popular, became divinely inspired. What was unpopular, was admitted to be a forgery. These 173 writings show the early church was nothing more than a forgery mill. Many of these fraudulent documents can be found in Wilhelm Schneemelcher (ed.)., New Testament Apocrypha.

To top it off, a papal decree declaring about 50 works to be apocryphal is itself an admitted forgery. Catholic Encyclopedia, vol. 1, p. 615.

There are parts of the canonical New Testament books which were never part of the oldest manuscripts. These parts are not found in the oldest papyrus codices, and were instead the insertions of later transcribers. Some of these inserted passages are: Mark 1.1 The words, "Son of God."; Mark 16:9-20, concerning the appearances of Christ after the resurrection; Luke 22:43, 44, about the bloody sweat of Jesus; John 7:53 to 8:11, about the woman taken in adultery. The Revelation of John was itself rejected by the early church as a forgery. See R. Grant, above.

The canonical gospels are further discredited by the historical evidence of alterations made at the order of Emperor Anastasius in 506 A.D., That evidence has been reported by Victor, of Tunis in Africa: "Messala V.C. Consule, Constantinopili, jubente Anastasio Imperatore, sancta evangelia, tanquam ab idiotis evangelistis composita, reprehenduntur et emendantur." Translation: "The Illustrious Messala, by the command of the Emperor Anastasius, the Holy Gospels, as having been written by idiot evangelists, are hereby censured and corrected." Quoted by Rev. R. Taylor, The Diegesis, p. 118 (1894).

Some of the passages in the New Testament seem to show that Jesus was never regarded as anything but a mythical person. In Luke 9.29, Jesus glows white while praying. In Luke 24.3, Jesus vanishes into thin air. In Mark 9.3, Jesus' clothes become "a dazzling white, with a whiteness no bleacher could equal." (New English Bible). Jesus is about as realistic as a laundry detergent commercial.

The famous church father Augustine never failed to subordinate reason to faith. He followed that maxim when he wrote: "I would never believe the Gospels to be true, unless the authority of the Catholic Church restrained me." Augustine, De Genesis..

There are still more forgeries. Of fifteen letters allededly written by Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch in 69 A.D., eight are generally rejected by Christian scholars as forgeries, having no authority at all. Giles, Christian and Hebrew Records, vol. 2, p. 99 (1877). See also Cyril R. Richardson, The Christianity of Ignatius of Antioch, preface (1967). Richardson only accepts seven as authentic.

Computer analysis of literary style shows that only the four larger of Paul had a common author. All the others are forgeries of unknown authorship. This study, called "statistical stylometry," involves computer analysis of how how many times a certain pronoun is used by a Greek author, the percentage of times it is used in the genitive form, and the number of words in sentences. For example, the occurrences of "de" (but) between the occurrences of "kai" (and) are compared as they appear in different Epistles. Results indicate that the chances of all fourteen Epistles being of a common authorship are highly unlikely, and are instead authored by different writers.

Statistical stylometry does show a common authorship for such Greek authors as Plato, Hippocrates, and a good selection of others.

This technique is considered reliable enough to be admissible in courts of law to prove the authenticity of such documents as confessions. A. Morton, Literary Detection: How to Prove the Authorship and Fraud in Literature and Documents (1979).

Fraudulent Documents of the Christian Church

i can understand illiterate primitives believing this stuff back then as they were superstitious and had no understanding of science and didn't know about the wider world (strange that their man god only showed himself to a little geographic area of the world) Now in the age of scientific knowledge we are able to see what is true or not , yet some people still cling even with the evidence against it to primitive mythical beliefs that have been shown to be nothing but man written bad fiction, absurdities and outright lies

 

[thebrucebeat]

[MENTION=48060]guno[/MENTION], [MENTION=41527]Pogo[/MENTION], [MENTION=48205]thebrucebeat[/MENTION]:

I hope you all had a find Resurrection Day. May Christ bless you with truth and wisdom while easing your pain and anger issues. I truly mean that. Have a good week.

And may Christ take away your gun fetish and militia fantasies.
Amen.
I truly mean that.

 

[Howey]

Happy Easter all!

 

[Howey]

[MENTION=48060]guno[/MENTION], [MENTION=41527]Pogo[/MENTION], [MENTION=48205]thebrucebeat[/MENTION]:

I hope you all had a find Resurrection Day. May Christ bless you with truth and wisdom while easing your pain and anger issues. I truly mean that. Have a good week.

And may Christ take away your gun fetish and militia fantasies.
Amen.
I truly mean that.

lol. Double amen.