Hard Reality Approaches...

[westwall]

You are assuming "scientific research" is one big thing. It isnt. When it comes to certain aspects of science it is one big guess. What climate was like 800k years ago falls into that category.

What climate was like 800,000 years ago is a matter of scientific research, NOT a guess. That's just deialist BS meant to cloud the issue.

How can you accurately research the air 800,000 years ago?

It's a guess. Hell scientist still aren't sure what killed off the dinosaurs along with at least 50 percent of all species living on earth 65 million years ago and they have solid evidence to study.

800,000-year Ice-Core Records of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide (CO2)

Methods
At the Bern laboratory, four to six samples of approximately 8 grams from each depth level (0.55m intervals) in the ice core are crushed under vacuum conditions. The sample container is connected to a cold trap for several minutes to release air from the clathrates and the air is then expanded to a measuring cell where a laser measures absorption in a vibration–rotation transition line of the CO2 molecule..........

And wouldn't you know it CO2 levels increase AFTER the warming comes. Hundreds of years later. Who woulda thunk it...

Exactly why many scientist think it is a problem.

Why on Earth could CO2 be a problem when the Vostock ice core data shows beyond doubt that CO2 has no effect on global temperatures and in fact is merely a result of global warming? Furthermore we KNOW beyond doubt that the Earth has been much warmer in the not to recent past MWP, Roman Warming Period, Minoan Warming Period and the Holocene Thermal Maximum and in every one of those cases the disasters and catastrophes that the warmists bleat about has never occurred.

The HTM was 5.5 degrees C warmer than the present day and happened 8,000 years ago. Nothing happened.

The Minoan was at least 2 degrees C warmer. Minoan civilization bloomed.

The Roman Warming Period was at least 2.7 degrees C warmer. Roman civilization blossomed.

The MWP was at least 2 degree's warmer. The Renaissance happened.

In every case where the globe has been warmer the human population has benefited. EVERY SINGLE. CASE.

 

[westwall]

Jesus the ignorance of people here is boundless, yet they speak as I they know something. Scared people convince themselves of just about anything.

Ignore them. It is coming and the time to take action is now.

Ummmm, YOU are the one screaming the "sky is falling". We're not scared. YOU are. We have brains and can look at the evidence, the historical record, and the paleo record and see quite easily that a warmer world is a better one.

Go preach your "the world is ending" bullshit to your fellow religious fruitcakes. We are followers of science and the scientific method, not religious nutters bellowing out that man is evil and needs to repent.

 

[mamooth]

Says the adherent to oldest and most stupid religion in history.

Better appease the volcano god or she will DESTROY THE EARTH

This is the favorite denier deflection, the one they use because they're too incompetent and/or cowardly to address the science. They project their own hysteria and irrationality on to the rational people, and then run away from the science as fast as they can.

And that's why the world ignores them now. Why waste time on cowardly liars?

 

[mamooth]

Why on Earth could CO2 be a problem when the Vostock ice core data shows beyond doubt that CO2 has no effect on global temperatures and in fact is merely a result of global warming?

A failure on two counts

1. Scientific failure. Current research shows CO2 and warming are too closely intertwined to be separated. "CO2 lags warming" is not correct.

2. Logic failure. The present is not constrained to act like the past if conditions in the present are wildly different, as they are.

Furthermore we KNOW beyond doubt that the Earth has been much warmer in the not to recent past MWP, Roman Warming Period, Minoan Warming Period and the Holocene Thermal Maximum and in every one of those cases the disasters and catastrophes that the warmists bleat about has never occurred.

The HTM was 5.5 degrees C warmer than the present day and happened 8,000 years ago. Nothing happened.

The Minoan was at least 2 degrees C warmer. Minoan civilization bloomed.

The Roman Warming Period was at least 2.7 degrees C warmer. Roman civilization blossomed.

The MWP was at least 2 degree's warmer. The Renaissance happened.

All of your data there is faked, of course. After all, your cult can't survive unless it's faking, fudging, twisting and torturing data, constantly updating it to match whatever the current conspiracy theory is.

Needless to say, current temperatures are warmer than any of those times. Here's the graph. Note 2015 temps are at least +0.80.

In every case where the globe has been warmer the human population has benefited. EVERY SINGLE. CASE.

Dead civilizations all around the entire globe point out what a crazy claim that is.

 

[BlindBoo]

Yeah here's some more mumbo jumbo for ya.

Ice Core Data Help Solve a Global Warming Mystery

The wide margin of error in the EPICA core data is due to the way air gets trapped in layers of ice. Snowpack becomes progressively denser from the surface down to around 100 meters, where it forms solid ice. Scientists use air trapped in the ice to determine the CO2 levels of past climates, whereas they use the ice itself to determine temperature. But because air diffuses rapidly through the ice pack, those air bubbles are younger than the ice surrounding them. This means that in places with little snowfall—like the Dome C ice core—the age difference between gas and ice can be thousands of years.

Parrenin’s team addresses these concerns with a new method that establishes the different ages of the gas and ice. They measured the concentration of an isotope, nitrogen 15, which is greater the deeper the snowpack is. Once they were able to determine snowpack depth from the nitrogen 15 data, a simple model can determine the offset in depth between gas and ice and the amount of time the difference represents. The researchers then compared results from multiple locations to reduce the margin of error.

The problem with this kind of scientific research is the assumptions that are made. It is assumed the accumulation rate has not varied greatly over the past. It is assumed that the same amount of nitrogen in the atmosphere has remained constant for thousands if not millions of years. This research is an educated guess at best.

The % of nitrogen in the atmosphere doesn't matter. It is the % of the isotope within the sample that matters.

Huh?

Where did this N2 isotope originate? In the ice? Or the atmosphere?

The fact is, we do not have a true control group from 800,000 years ago to accurately compare. What kind of grinding and crushing does ice undergo over thousands of years?
When bubbles are analyzed and you get your values, what exactly do those values represent? What about temperature, for instance? What is the margin for error?

Do you understand carbon dating techniques? Same principle.

Plenty of stuff for you to research........

Yes and carbon dating has been shown not to be reliable. It assumes that the rate of decay has been constant for thousands if not millions of years. You can get any date you like depending on the assumptions you make.

Don't be silly. The rate of decay is constant. But it is only accurate for a few thousand years.

 

[BlindBoo]

800,000-year Ice-Core Records of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide (CO2)

Methods
At the Bern laboratory, four to six samples of approximately 8 grams from each depth level (0.55m intervals) in the ice core are crushed under vacuum conditions. The sample container is connected to a cold trap for several minutes to release air from the clathrates and the air is then expanded to a measuring cell where a laser measures absorption in a vibration–rotation transition line of the CO2 molecule..........

And wouldn't you know it CO2 levels increase AFTER the warming comes. Hundreds of years later. Who woulda thunk it...

Exactly why many scientist think it is a problem.

Scientist thought we were heading into an ice age back in the 70's, they thought that was a real problem too.

Some scientist today think we are heading back into an ice age. It was a small number then and it is a small number now. The real issue then was that it made the cover of Newsweek and/or Time. It sold a lot of magazines.

No matter how much you want to deny the fact that scientist were wrong about global cooling doesn't change the fact that scientist warned of a coming ice age.

Reading is fund........."Some scientist today think we are heading back into an ice age."

Also it is entirely possible, if the sun goes quite and there is little to no sunspot activity, we could go into a cooling phase. Nobody knows for sure what would happen if there were 80 years of low sun activity.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

The problem with this kind of scientific research is the assumptions that are made. It is assumed the accumulation rate has not varied greatly over the past. It is assumed that the same amount of nitrogen in the atmosphere has remained constant for thousands if not millions of years. This research is an educated guess at best.

The % of nitrogen in the atmosphere doesn't matter. It is the % of the isotope within the sample that matters.

Huh?

Where did this N2 isotope originate? In the ice? Or the atmosphere?

The fact is, we do not have a true control group from 800,000 years ago to accurately compare. What kind of grinding and crushing does ice undergo over thousands of years?
When bubbles are analyzed and you get your values, what exactly do those values represent? What about temperature, for instance? What is the margin for error?

Do you understand carbon dating techniques? Same principle.

Plenty of stuff for you to research........

Yes and carbon dating has been shown not to be reliable. It assumes that the rate of decay has been constant for thousands if not millions of years. You can get any date you like depending on the assumptions you make.

Don't be silly. The rate of decay is constant. But it is only accurate for a few thousand years.

Radioactive Decay Rates May Not Be Constant After All

 

[Cecilie1200]

You have to ignore the unwashed masses. And I know that sounds 'elitist' but truth is what it is. These people who barely have a high school education but think they have reasoned it out and they 'know' ten thousand PH.D's are wrong.

No reason to argue with these people, they are scared peasants who think witches are real. Leave them to their ignorance.

The conversation now is between the most intelligent people on Earth that have studied this for a lifetime and those who have read enough and observed with calm and rational thought what is happening. Our task is to talk to and reach those in between, the ones who instinctively 'feel' something is wrong but don't have enough information to understand completely. Those people just need to be educated and moved far enough away from the 'they're witches' crowd so they can think clearly.

The day is soon approaching when the reality of a future the human race has never seen is real. Leave those too scared to face it behind. They are like the people on the shore yelling at Columbus he is going to fall off the edge of the world. They, as always, will be dragged kicking and screaming into reality because there won't be a choice.

"You don't agree with me, ergo you're stupid, ergo you should be ignored and we should just do as we please. It's for your own good, peons."

 

[flacaltenn]

Earth in 'uncharted territory' on global warming


"Concentrations of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere are now reaching levels not seen on Earth for more than 800,000, maybe even one million years," WMO chief Michel Jarraud told reporters.

"This means we are now really in uncharted territory for the human race," he warned.

Denying it doesn't even matter anymore, all deniers are doing is delaying action that could possibly avert catastrophe, which is now inevitable. Something wicked this way comes.

Except that the OP shows an incredible lack of understanding of the science. SOME surveys of CO2 concentrations don't have the resolution to find the peaks and valleys of CO2 concentrations. Because they try to cover 100,000 years in one graph. But more detailed CO2 proxy studies on shorter segments show MUCH HIGHER CO2 concentrations in the Earth's recent history. For instance.. Side by side. A HIGH res proxy study and the same segment from an ice core..

The media and zealots take data from studies that make claims that are not truly supported. Because there's ample evidence that CO2 concentrations show more variance than the ones they select to make their very scary sermons..

Stomatal proxy record of CO2 concentrations from the last termination suggests an important role for CO2 at climate change transitions | Margret Steinthorsdottir - Academia.edu


We believe that our record has the ?delity to accurately re?ect the evolution of [CO2] during this well-constrained time interval at an approximately 50 year resolution.
.

 

[Old Rocks]

Lonestar, how many times have you told that lie?

What were climate scientists predicting in the 1970s?

It's easy to look back at the 70's and know it was all bullshit, but at the time there were scientist that made that claim. It was what the news reported and what the masses heard. I knew it was BS then as is the global warming scare is now.

Stupid ass. Those were the papers published between 1965 and 1979. That was the scientific thought of that period. And the primary reason that the ones predicting cooling were doing so was the aerosols that we were putting into the atmosphere at that time. Very simply, the majority of scientists for that period predicted warming.

 

[flacaltenn]

Why on Earth could CO2 be a problem when the Vostock ice core data shows beyond doubt that CO2 has no effect on global temperatures and in fact is merely a result of global warming?

A failure on two counts

1. Scientific failure. Current research shows CO2 and warming are too closely intertwined to be separated. "CO2 lags warming" is not correct.

2. Logic failure. The present is not constrained to act like the past if conditions in the present are wildly different, as they are.

Furthermore we KNOW beyond doubt that the Earth has been much warmer in the not to recent past MWP, Roman Warming Period, Minoan Warming Period and the Holocene Thermal Maximum and in every one of those cases the disasters and catastrophes that the warmists bleat about has never occurred.

The HTM was 5.5 degrees C warmer than the present day and happened 8,000 years ago. Nothing happened.

The Minoan was at least 2 degrees C warmer. Minoan civilization bloomed.

The Roman Warming Period was at least 2.7 degrees C warmer. Roman civilization blossomed.

The MWP was at least 2 degree's warmer. The Renaissance happened.

All of your data there is faked, of course. After all, your cult can't survive unless it's faking, fudging, twisting and torturing data, constantly updating it to match whatever the current conspiracy theory is.

Needless to say, current temperatures are warmer than any of those times. Here's the graph. Note 2015 temps are at least +0.80.

In every case where the globe has been warmer the human population has benefited. EVERY SINGLE. CASE.

Dead civilizations all around the entire globe point out what a crazy claim that is.

That's just graph abuse Mammy.. You ignored all those colorful squigglies. They are more important than that '
heavily filtered black line.. THOSE are the peaks and valleys of the proxies. MANY OF WHICH --- easily exceed our little temperature blip.. And if you rolled that heavy filter out to 2004 -- OUR temperature transition would steam-rolled into insignificance..

Learn to grab what you can from a graph and not be lulled into stupid conclusions..

 

[jc456]

Jesus the ignorance of people here is boundless, yet they speak as I they know something. Scared people convince themselves of just about anything.

Ignore them. It is coming and the time to take action is now.

Ummmm, YOU are the one screaming the "sky is falling". We're not scared. YOU are. We have brains and can look at the evidence, the historical record, and the paleo record and see quite easily that a warmer world is a better one.

Go preach your "the world is ending" bullshit to your fellow religious fruitcakes. We are followers of science and the scientific method, not religious nutters bellowing out that man is evil and needs to repent.

Shhhh...you and your fellow religious whacks are in the wrong thread. We already know you don't believe in reality, you repeating that over and over doesn't change anything.

Go hide under your blanky and pretend your daddy will make it ok. Adult discussion of chemistry and physics is not your thing.

Shhhh, you go to sleep now.

dude, that is just funny shit. Really, you are on here yelling that we need to do something or else and we're saying......no because you have no proof of any such catastrophe coming. None zip. Then you tell us to go and hide? dude that is just fkin funny, it is you that should go hide, you're the one afraid. Not us in the least. Why would we need to hide other than your ugly screams are sickening. Maybe that's what you meant. Not sure, but I know one thing, you have no idea what the fk you're talking about. But sure feel free to post up your evidence any day.

 

[westwall]

Why on Earth could CO2 be a problem when the Vostock ice core data shows beyond doubt that CO2 has no effect on global temperatures and in fact is merely a result of global warming?

A failure on two counts

1. Scientific failure. Current research shows CO2 and warming are too closely intertwined to be separated. "CO2 lags warming" is not correct.

2. Logic failure. The present is not constrained to act like the past if conditions in the present are wildly different, as they are.

Furthermore we KNOW beyond doubt that the Earth has been much warmer in the not to recent past MWP, Roman Warming Period, Minoan Warming Period and the Holocene Thermal Maximum and in every one of those cases the disasters and catastrophes that the warmists bleat about has never occurred.

The HTM was 5.5 degrees C warmer than the present day and happened 8,000 years ago. Nothing happened.

The Minoan was at least 2 degrees C warmer. Minoan civilization bloomed.

The Roman Warming Period was at least 2.7 degrees C warmer. Roman civilization blossomed.

The MWP was at least 2 degree's warmer. The Renaissance happened.

All of your data there is faked, of course. After all, your cult can't survive unless it's faking, fudging, twisting and torturing data, constantly updating it to match whatever the current conspiracy theory is.

Needless to say, current temperatures are warmer than any of those times. Here's the graph. Note 2015 temps are at least +0.80.

In every case where the globe has been warmer the human population has benefited. EVERY SINGLE. CASE.

Dead civilizations all around the entire globe point out what a crazy claim that is.

Really? I see a lot of temp lines way higher than that heavy black line you're pointing to and every one of those lines is a civilization that prospered until the next cold cycle hit. You truly are an ignorant twat.

 

[RollingThunder]

Even as the news is that global temperatures have not risen in 20 years and the arctic ice is bigger than ever.

Your denier cult myths are insanely wrong...just deliberately fraudulent lies really....

Temperatures have continued to rise over the last two decades at the same rate or faster than they did in the 1990s. 14 of the 15 hottest years on record happened in this century. 2015 is set to surpass 2014 as the new hottest year on record, beating the previous record holders, 2010 and 2005. That means three of the hottest years on record since at least 1880 will have happened in the last five years.

Science publishes new NOAA analysis: Data show no recent slowdown in global warming
NOAA
June 4, 2015


(Credit: NOAA)

A new study published online today in the journal Science finds that the rate of global warming during the last 15 years has been as fast as or faster than that seen during the latter half of the 20th Century. The study refutes the notion that there has been a slowdown or "hiatus" in the rate of global warming in recent years.

The study is the work of a team of scientists from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's (NOAA) National Centers for Environmental Information* (NCEI) using the latest global surface temperature data.

"Adding in the last two years of global surface temperature data and other improvements in the quality of the observed record provide evidence that contradict the notion of a hiatus in recent global warming trends," said Thomas R. Karl, L.H.D., Director, NOAA's National Centers for Environmental Information. "Our new analysis suggests that the apparent hiatus may have been largely the result of limitations in past datasets, and that the rate of warming over the first 15 years of this century has, in fact, been as fast or faster than that seen over the last half of the 20th century."


Arctic ice, in spite of the deranged denier cult myths that have you so bamboozled, continues to shrink in both extent and volume.

Arctic sea ice reaches fourth lowest minimum
National Snow and Ice Data Center
September 15, 2015
On September 11, Arctic sea ice reached its likely minimum extent for 2015.The minimum ice extent was the fourth lowest in the satellite record, and reinforces the long-term downward trend in Arctic ice extent. The nin e lowest extents in the satellite era have all occurred in the last nine years. Sea ice extent will now begin its seasonal increase through autumn and winter. In the Antarctic, sea ice extent is average, a substantial contrast with recent years when Antarctic winter extents reached record high levels.

Winter is coming to the Arctic
NSIDC
November 4, 2015
While Arctic sea ice extent is increasing, total ice extent remains below average, tracking almost two standard deviations below the long-term average. Air temperatures at the 925 millibar level were 4 to 5 degrees Celsius (7 to 9 degrees Fahrenheit) above average over the central Arctic, extending towards Fram Strait. Coastal regions were generally 1 to 3 degrees Celsius (2 to 5 degrees Fahrenheit) higher than average.

Moderation Edit -- Please do not use bright red in posts. It's reserved by the rules..

 

[flacaltenn]

Deniers, shouldn't you be suiting up for the 'war on kristmas'? That is really your forte, science isn't your thing.

Lemme see if I can make this on-topic -- since your post was not. You passed on my post showing you historical variations of CO2 that contradict your claims in the OP, you don't EVEN ATTEMPT to suit up to discuss anything mildly difficult to read or understand, AND YET --- you're talking about "suiting up"?

I can handle rebutting your nonsense OP and doing the War on Christmas (if I wanted to) AND learn a few things about the Environment while I'm spending time in this forum..

AND YOU???

 

[westwall]

Deniers, shouldn't you be suiting up for the 'war on kristmas'? That is really your forte, science isn't your thing.

Lemme see if I can make this on-topic -- since your post was not. You passed on my post showing you historical variations of CO2 that contradict your claims in the OP, you don't EVEN ATTEMPT to suit up to discuss anything mildly difficult to read or understand, AND YET --- you're talking about "suiting up"?

I can handle rebutting your nonsense OP and doing the War on Christmas (if I wanted to) AND learn a few things about the Environment while I'm spending time in this forum..

AND YOU???

The idiot is trolling his own OP. What a moron. What is funny is he can't refute any of the facts we are presenting so he resorts to the typical off topic trolling trying to hide the fact that his OP is an epic failure.

 

[IsaacNewton]

You don't have facts, you have tired reposted ad nauseum nothing.

If you check the link in the OP it is what is important. You and the rest of the denier cult simply do this same thing on every single thread about Global Warming.

Yes we know. You don't like reality. Fair enough.

 

[westwall]

You don't have facts, you have tired reposted ad nauseum nothing.

If you check the link in the OP it is what is important. You and the rest of the denier cult simply do this same thing on every single thread about Global Warming.

Yes we know. You don't like reality. Fair enough.

Wrong. We HAVE been posting facts. Facts that you refuse to acknowledge which is simply stupid. Do you understand the difference between a fact and an opinion?

 

[IsaacNewton]

You don't have facts, you have tired reposted ad nauseum nothing.

If you check the link in the OP it is what is important. You and the rest of the denier cult simply do this same thing on every single thread about Global Warming.

Yes we know. You don't like reality. Fair enough.

Wrong. We HAVE been posting facts. Facts that you refuse to acknowledge which is simply stupid. Do you understand the difference between a fact and an opinion?

You repeat the same thing over and over and over, which has been refuted by real scientists everywhere. I'm not interested in YOU saying you know more than the PH.D's, the hard evidence from PH.D's outweighs anything in your head by light year. There is a Mt. Everest of facts and evidence against you.

You DON"T post facts, you post what you hear are facts that have been lawyered to fit your pre-determined desired outcome.

Type them into a text document so you can sit there and reread them over and over and feel good. No problem.

 

[westwall]

You don't have facts, you have tired reposted ad nauseum nothing.

If you check the link in the OP it is what is important. You and the rest of the denier cult simply do this same thing on every single thread about Global Warming.

Yes we know. You don't like reality. Fair enough.

Wrong. We HAVE been posting facts. Facts that you refuse to acknowledge which is simply stupid. Do you understand the difference between a fact and an opinion?

You repeat the same thing over and over and over, which has been refuted by real scientists everywhere. I'm not interested in YOU saying you know more than the PH.D's, the hard evidence from PH.D's outweighs anything in your head by light year. There is a Mt. Everest of facts and evidence against you.

You DON"T post facts, you post what you hear are facts that have been lawyered to fit your pre-determined desired outcome.

Type them into a text document so you can sit there and reread them over and over and feel good. No problem.

Yes, we do post real facts. Your "real scientists" tell you that the world is about to end. I have shown you that there have been MANY times when the Earth was warmer and not one single catastrophe that they scream is about to happen ever has. That is a fact. Feel free to post up a fact that supports your side and I will be happy to post up one that refutes it.

That's how science works and I too have a PhD in geology so I fully understand how the scientific method works. Clearly you don't.