Have The Videos Given You Pause?

[kaz]

I'm a liberal guy who has.....since I was a teenager....known that our criminal justice system doesn't deliver justice in a fair and equitable manner. Still.....I never thought that most or even a significant number of police shootings were things that needed to be more vigorously questioned. When I heard of a police shooting, my first reaction was that it was a good shoot.

I've got several law enforcement professionals in my family...including my son....and I know for a fact that the the profession is not rife with vile racists and bigots.

However, since we have so much caught on video these days...and we see that unarmed men are being shot or killed by law enforcement officers, I've learned to wait for evidence before making the judgment. I am now aware that the odds of a bad shoot are much higher than I ever imagined.

I wonder if any other USMB members have undergone a similar change in thought?

I always admire the courage of a liberal who decides to come out and through intense soul searching admit you have come to realize the left is right ...

What's wrong with your argument is you're saying a few shootings that got on TV convinced you of the "odds." Yet you provided zero statistical data to back up the "odds."

What I will agree with you on is that I like that all these shootings are being filmed. Dirty cops should face the consequences of their crimes. But investigations should be fair, not witch hunts as the Democrats insist on pursuing

 

[Crixus]

I'm a liberal guy who has.....since I was a teenager....known that our criminal justice system doesn't deliver justice in a fair and equitable manner. Still.....I never thought that most or even a significant number of police shootings were things that needed to be more vigorously questioned. When I heard of a police shooting, my first reaction was that it was a good shoot.

I've got several law enforcement professionals in my family...including my son....and I know for a fact that the the profession is not rife with vile racists and bigots.

However, since we have so much caught on video these days...and we see that unarmed men are being shot or killed by law enforcement officers, I've learned to wait for evidence before making the judgment. I am now aware that the odds of a bad shoot are much higher than I ever imagined.

I wonder if any other USMB members have undergone a similar change in thought?

Nope, because despite all your vedio evidence you can not produce any evidence at all, nore can anyone in your family of law enforcement professionals produce one vedio where a cop pulls a person over, walks to their window and shoots them dead. None of you can produce a vedio of a cop picking a black dude standing on the street, and just gunning him down. It all begins with the officer telling whomever to comply, and the person not complying which ends up in an fight that ends in a hoodrat getting its head own off. It could all be avoided by simply doing what the cop says.

 

[OldLady]

But do you think, from seeing the videos of the incident, that she should have panicked to that extent? There was no firearm. There were three other cops standing right beside her. I think some people (including me) are not cut out for the job. She is not necessarily a racist, just not steady under pressure.

I think it is impossible to TURN IT OFF-----it is a hardwired
function of the brain-----think LIMBIC LOBE---prominently ---that damned amygdala. Lots of cops have been murdered
lately

It's ironic, isn't it, that the BLM protests that have morphed into violence against cops, has resulted in MORE violence by cops because now they're even MORE nervous. Neither side is actually helping the situation at this point.

yes----it's a nitemare------I do not like to BLAME Obama-----
he tried his best------but black hair trigger rioting is something
he should have ADDRESSED WITH VIGOR

I've heard him scold about rioting before, but he has definitely not emphasized it as much as he could have done. I suppose some people in the black community have become so sensitive to criticism that he would have been damned if he did, as well as damned cuz he didn't.

yelling does not help------the issue should have been handled very CAREFULLY----(it was PREDICTABLE based on the
DINKINS experience------poor Dinkins as INCUMBENT lost after one term) ------Obama needed teams of sociologists and
psychologists to make sure the DINKINS phenomenon would
not RECUR

He didn't yell and I have no idea who DINKINS is. The President is young and healthy and with his background in activism and obvious distaste for foreign affairs, maybe he'll turn his attention to the black community once he's free and clear of the WH.

 

[Papageorgio]

So you're saying cops should write better laws?

No, they should stop serving the abusive system.

So all cops should quit.

 

[OldLady]

I'm a liberal guy who has.....since I was a teenager....known that our criminal justice system doesn't deliver justice in a fair and equitable manner. Still.....I never thought that most or even a significant number of police shootings were things that needed to be more vigorously questioned. When I heard of a police shooting, my first reaction was that it was a good shoot.

I've got several law enforcement professionals in my family...including my son....and I know for a fact that the the profession is not rife with vile racists and bigots.

However, since we have so much caught on video these days...and we see that unarmed men are being shot or killed by law enforcement officers, I've learned to wait for evidence before making the judgment. I am now aware that the odds of a bad shoot are much higher than I ever imagined.

I wonder if any other USMB members have undergone a similar change in thought?

I always admire the courage of a liberal who decides to come out and through intense soul searching admit you have come to realize the left is right ...

What's wrong with your argument is you're saying a few shootings that got on TV convinced you of the "odds." Yet you provided zero statistical data to back up the "odds."

What I will agree with you on is that I like that all these shootings are being filmed. Dirty cops should face the consequences of their crimes. But investigations should be fair, not witch hunts as the Democrats insist on pursuing

I think we should restrict the information that can be broadcast prior to an investigation and findings. I don't know how that can be done on social media, but it is pretty insane that all the tv news is broadcasting the evidence they may need in a criminal case. We Americans insist on too much information too soon. Nosy busybodies, imo.

 

[rightwinger]

"better training" is good for all professions and avocations HOWEVER---"COP PANICKED"-------<<<<< a normal response to danger-------it is hardwired into the brains of
ALL PRIMATES (and lots of lower forms)

But do you think, from seeing the videos of the incident, that she should have panicked to that extent? There was no firearm. There were three other cops standing right beside her. I think some people (including me) are not cut out for the job. She is not necessarily a racist, just not steady under pressure.

I think it is impossible to TURN IT OFF-----it is a hardwired
function of the brain-----think LIMBIC LOBE---prominently ---that damned amygdala. Lots of cops have been murdered
lately

It's ironic, isn't it, that the BLM protests that have morphed into violence against cops, has resulted in MORE violence by cops because now they're even MORE nervous. Neither side is actually helping the situation at this point.

yes----it's a nitemare------I do not like to BLAME Obama-----
he tried his best------but black hair trigger rioting is something
he should have ADDRESSED WITH VIGOR

As the first black President Obama could have set the tone for everyone in the inner cities and for 8 years drove home the value of the family unit, education and community service. He never even tried.

Of course he did........he brought up black families, education and community many times

As the first black President, Obama's hands were tied in trying to implement programs specifically targeted towards blacks. A President like LBJ was much more successful

 

[Crixus]

I'm a liberal guy who has.....since I was a teenager....known that our criminal justice system doesn't deliver justice in a fair and equitable manner. Still.....I never thought that most or even a significant number of police shootings were things that needed to be more vigorously questioned. When I heard of a police shooting, my first reaction was that it was a good shoot.

I've got several law enforcement professionals in my family...including my son....and I know for a fact that the the profession is not rife with vile racists and bigots.

However, since we have so much caught on video these days...and we see that unarmed men are being shot or killed by law enforcement officers, I've learned to wait for evidence before making the judgment. I am now aware that the odds of a bad shoot are much higher than I ever imagined.

I wonder if any other USMB members have undergone a similar change in thought?

I always admire the courage of a liberal who decides to come out and through intense soul searching admit you have come to realize the left is right ...

What's wrong with your argument is you're saying a few shootings that got on TV convinced you of the "odds." Yet you provided zero statistical data to back up the "odds."

What I will agree with you on is that I like that all these shootings are being filmed. Dirty cops should face the consequences of their crimes. But investigations should be fair, not witch hunts as the Democrats insist on pursuing

I think we should restrict the information that can be broadcast prior to an investigation and findings. I don't know how that can be done on social media, but it is pretty insane that all the tv news is broadcasting the evidence they may need in a criminal case. We Americans insist on too much information too soon. Nosy busybodies, imo.

Wouldn't make any difference. The folks who went shopping last night in VA had it in their heads days ago. If there is no information available they will make up their own and act on it.

 

[Weatherman2020]

But do you think, from seeing the videos of the incident, that she should have panicked to that extent? There was no firearm. There were three other cops standing right beside her. I think some people (including me) are not cut out for the job. She is not necessarily a racist, just not steady under pressure.

I think it is impossible to TURN IT OFF-----it is a hardwired
function of the brain-----think LIMBIC LOBE---prominently ---that damned amygdala. Lots of cops have been murdered
lately

It's ironic, isn't it, that the BLM protests that have morphed into violence against cops, has resulted in MORE violence by cops because now they're even MORE nervous. Neither side is actually helping the situation at this point.

yes----it's a nitemare------I do not like to BLAME Obama-----
he tried his best------but black hair trigger rioting is something
he should have ADDRESSED WITH VIGOR

As the first black President Obama could have set the tone for everyone in the inner cities and for 8 years drove home the value of the family unit, education and community service. He never even tried.

Of course he did........he brought up black families, education and community many times

As the first black President, Obama's hands were tied in trying to implement programs specifically targeted towards blacks. A President like LBJ was much more successful

Name the speeches and programs he initiated. I am not aware of one time Obama made the inner cities a priority by setting an example and tone on what is right and wrong in our inner cities.

 

[Scorpion]

Most cops are good, but it only takes a small percentage of bad ones to destroy the trust that cops and citizens need for our system to work. Instead of becoming more militant and confrontational, they should police their own to bring some sanity back into the situation.

A lot of cops seem to need better training. That OK cop panicked, although why I don't know. It isn't necessarily about race as much as losing control. Or the perception of losing control.

"better training" is good for all professions and avocations HOWEVER---"COP PANICKED"-------<<<<< a normal response to danger-------it is hardwired into the brains of
ALL PRIMATES (and lots of lower forms)

But do you think, from seeing the videos of the incident, that she should have panicked to that extent? There was no firearm. There were three other cops standing right beside her. I think some people (including me) are not cut out for the job. She is not necessarily a racist, just not steady under pressure.

They say video doesnt lie but two people, watching the SAME exact thing can come up with 2 different conclusions based on their personal experiences.
Let the investigation take place and the evidence and course of action play out.
Knee jerk reactions hurt ALL involved.

LOL. You call that a knee jerk reaction? I am certainly interested in the drug screen, and the cops' side of the story. However, certain facts won't change.

I'm referring to the media and protesters not the cop

 

[Rustic]

The greatest enemy to the American people is a progressive federal government… fact

 

[kaz]

I'm a liberal guy who has.....since I was a teenager....known that our criminal justice system doesn't deliver justice in a fair and equitable manner. Still.....I never thought that most or even a significant number of police shootings were things that needed to be more vigorously questioned. When I heard of a police shooting, my first reaction was that it was a good shoot.

I've got several law enforcement professionals in my family...including my son....and I know for a fact that the the profession is not rife with vile racists and bigots.

However, since we have so much caught on video these days...and we see that unarmed men are being shot or killed by law enforcement officers, I've learned to wait for evidence before making the judgment. I am now aware that the odds of a bad shoot are much higher than I ever imagined.

I wonder if any other USMB members have undergone a similar change in thought?

I always admire the courage of a liberal who decides to come out and through intense soul searching admit you have come to realize the left is right ...

What's wrong with your argument is you're saying a few shootings that got on TV convinced you of the "odds." Yet you provided zero statistical data to back up the "odds."

What I will agree with you on is that I like that all these shootings are being filmed. Dirty cops should face the consequences of their crimes. But investigations should be fair, not witch hunts as the Democrats insist on pursuing

I think we should restrict the information that can be broadcast prior to an investigation and findings. I don't know how that can be done on social media, but it is pretty insane that all the tv news is broadcasting the evidence they may need in a criminal case. We Americans insist on too much information too soon. Nosy busybodies, imo.

Why should the government be able to cover up crimes?

 

[OldLady]

I'm a liberal guy who has.....since I was a teenager....known that our criminal justice system doesn't deliver justice in a fair and equitable manner. Still.....I never thought that most or even a significant number of police shootings were things that needed to be more vigorously questioned. When I heard of a police shooting, my first reaction was that it was a good shoot.

I've got several law enforcement professionals in my family...including my son....and I know for a fact that the the profession is not rife with vile racists and bigots.

However, since we have so much caught on video these days...and we see that unarmed men are being shot or killed by law enforcement officers, I've learned to wait for evidence before making the judgment. I am now aware that the odds of a bad shoot are much higher than I ever imagined.

I wonder if any other USMB members have undergone a similar change in thought?

I always admire the courage of a liberal who decides to come out and through intense soul searching admit you have come to realize the left is right ...

What's wrong with your argument is you're saying a few shootings that got on TV convinced you of the "odds." Yet you provided zero statistical data to back up the "odds."

What I will agree with you on is that I like that all these shootings are being filmed. Dirty cops should face the consequences of their crimes. But investigations should be fair, not witch hunts as the Democrats insist on pursuing

I think we should restrict the information that can be broadcast prior to an investigation and findings. I don't know how that can be done on social media, but it is pretty insane that all the tv news is broadcasting the evidence they may need in a criminal case. We Americans insist on too much information too soon. Nosy busybodies, imo.

Why should the government be able to cover up crimes?

I didn't say cover up. I said we could stand to wait instead of playing half-baked "investigators" and "judges" and "lawyers" without half the information necessary. Government should have a certain amount of time to complete an investigation--two weeks, a month, whatever is reasonable--and release the results to the public.

 

[toomuchtime_]

I'm a liberal guy who has.....since I was a teenager....known that our criminal justice system doesn't deliver justice in a fair and equitable manner. Still.....I never thought that most or even a significant number of police shootings were things that needed to be more vigorously questioned. When I heard of a police shooting, my first reaction was that it was a good shoot.

I've got several law enforcement professionals in my family...including my son....and I know for a fact that the the profession is not rife with vile racists and bigots.

However, since we have so much caught on video these days...and we see that unarmed men are being shot or killed by law enforcement officers, I've learned to wait for evidence before making the judgment. I am now aware that the odds of a bad shoot are much higher than I ever imagined.

I wonder if any other USMB members have undergone a similar change in thought?

Since nearly every investigation, local, state and federal, has exonerated the officers in these shootings, it suggests you were smarter and more objective when you were young than you are now.

 

[kaz]

I'm a liberal guy who has.....since I was a teenager....known that our criminal justice system doesn't deliver justice in a fair and equitable manner. Still.....I never thought that most or even a significant number of police shootings were things that needed to be more vigorously questioned. When I heard of a police shooting, my first reaction was that it was a good shoot.

I've got several law enforcement professionals in my family...including my son....and I know for a fact that the the profession is not rife with vile racists and bigots.

However, since we have so much caught on video these days...and we see that unarmed men are being shot or killed by law enforcement officers, I've learned to wait for evidence before making the judgment. I am now aware that the odds of a bad shoot are much higher than I ever imagined.

I wonder if any other USMB members have undergone a similar change in thought?

I always admire the courage of a liberal who decides to come out and through intense soul searching admit you have come to realize the left is right ...

What's wrong with your argument is you're saying a few shootings that got on TV convinced you of the "odds." Yet you provided zero statistical data to back up the "odds."

What I will agree with you on is that I like that all these shootings are being filmed. Dirty cops should face the consequences of their crimes. But investigations should be fair, not witch hunts as the Democrats insist on pursuing

I think we should restrict the information that can be broadcast prior to an investigation and findings. I don't know how that can be done on social media, but it is pretty insane that all the tv news is broadcasting the evidence they may need in a criminal case. We Americans insist on too much information too soon. Nosy busybodies, imo.

Why should the government be able to cover up crimes?

I didn't say cover up. I said we could stand to wait instead of playing half-baked "investigators" and "judges" and "lawyers" without half the information necessary. Government should have a certain amount of time to complete an investigation--two weeks, a month, whatever is reasonable--and release the results to the public.

So in your fantasy world, government will only cover it up as long as necessary? You didn't say "cover up," but that's the result. The American government should never be prevented from disclosure to the American public, that's a huge step in enabling tyranny

 

[kaz]

I'm a liberal guy who has.....since I was a teenager....known that our criminal justice system doesn't deliver justice in a fair and equitable manner. Still.....I never thought that most or even a significant number of police shootings were things that needed to be more vigorously questioned. When I heard of a police shooting, my first reaction was that it was a good shoot.

I've got several law enforcement professionals in my family...including my son....and I know for a fact that the the profession is not rife with vile racists and bigots.

However, since we have so much caught on video these days...and we see that unarmed men are being shot or killed by law enforcement officers, I've learned to wait for evidence before making the judgment. I am now aware that the odds of a bad shoot are much higher than I ever imagined.

I wonder if any other USMB members have undergone a similar change in thought?

Since nearly every investigation, local, state and federal, has exonerated the officers in these shootings, it suggests you were smarter and more objective when you were young than you are now.

He was convinced of the "odds" based on random videos, he's not exactly intellectually rigorous.

Cops should be given some leeway in that they are voluntarily going into dangerous situations with criminals who are amped up on things like heroin. On the other hand, there are bad shootings and those cops should be accountable.

All shootings should be thoroughly investigated to get at the truth. I'm not insinuating you're saying anything different.

The problem now with the left is

1) If a white shot shoots a black kid, it was a bad shooting right there

2) If you don't see that, you're a racist

It's the intellectual capacity of today's American left

 

[OldLady]

Not even video recordings make them accept that blacks aren't just making it up. The police and media has convinced everyone that videos aren't to be trusted in cases where cops shoot someone....all other videos are trustworthy.

And waiting for an investigation that results in a 98% chance of walking is saying "hey, you have a whole 2% chance of getting justice. Let the fair system work."

That's like betting your home on the Eagles winning the Superbowl. Lol

Now that DOJ is doing investigations when there are serious questions, don't you have any hope that the investigations will be more trustworthy?

 

[ClosedCaption]

Not even video recordings make them accept that blacks aren't just making it up. The police and media has convinced everyone that videos aren't to be trusted in cases where cops shoot someone....all other videos are trustworthy.

And waiting for an investigation that results in a 98% chance of walking is saying "hey, you have a whole 2% chance of getting justice. Let the fair system work."

That's like betting your home on the Eagles winning the Superbowl. Lol

Now that DOJ is doing investigations when there are serious questions, don't you have any hope that the investigations will be more trustworthy?

No, not when the system hasn't changed. Am I'm not just saying that...I'll bet anyone there will be no indictment

 

[OldLady]

My, my.
Our Tulsa friends prior run ins with the law:
1996 Shooting with intent to kill — Dismissed
2001 Petit larceny — Conviction
2004 Driving while suspended — Conviction
2005 Driving while suspended, resisting officer — Conviction
2006 Driving while suspended — Conviction
Driving with open container — Dismissed
2006 Trafficking in illegal drugs — Conviction. (He was also charged in that incident with assault on a police officer and resisting, but that was dismissed.)
2011 Public intoxication (while in prison for drug trafficking) — Conviction
2012 Public intoxication — Conviction
Obstructing an officer — Conviction
2013 DUI — Conviction
Resisting officer — Conviction
Open Container — Conviction
Failure to wear seatbelt — Conviction
Speeding — Conviction

His outstanding warrants at the time of the shooting:

His hands are not up and he said his car was going to blow up - as in I have a bomb in the car. He walked back to that car against orders not to do so.

Well, that might be why the helo guys said "He looks like a bad one" if they had pulled up his record.

 

[rightwinger]

I'm a liberal guy who has.....since I was a teenager....known that our criminal justice system doesn't deliver justice in a fair and equitable manner. Still.....I never thought that most or even a significant number of police shootings were things that needed to be more vigorously questioned. When I heard of a police shooting, my first reaction was that it was a good shoot.

I've got several law enforcement professionals in my family...including my son....and I know for a fact that the the profession is not rife with vile racists and bigots.

However, since we have so much caught on video these days...and we see that unarmed men are being shot or killed by law enforcement officers, I've learned to wait for evidence before making the judgment. I am now aware that the odds of a bad shoot are much higher than I ever imagined.

I wonder if any other USMB members have undergone a similar change in thought?

Since nearly every investigation, local, state and federal, has exonerated the officers in these shootings, it suggests you were smarter and more objective when you were young than you are now.

He was convinced of the "odds" based on random videos, he's not exactly intellectually rigorous.

Cops should be given some leeway in that they are voluntarily going into dangerous situations with criminals who are amped up on things like heroin. On the other hand, there are bad shootings and those cops should be accountable.

All shootings should be thoroughly investigated to get at the truth. I'm not insinuating you're saying anything different.

The problem now with the left is

1) If a white shot shoots a black kid, it was a bad shooting right there

2) If you don't see that, you're a racist

It's the intellectual capacity of today's American left

Not always....many of these shootings are on video and it is obvious what threat the victim was presenting

The outrage comes at the increasing number of shootings of unarmed black men who do not seem to be a threat. In the past, there was no video and these shootings were blamed on the victim. With video, it becomes more obvious whether the victim was attacking or was under control of the police

 

[OldLady]

I'm a liberal guy who has.....since I was a teenager....known that our criminal justice system doesn't deliver justice in a fair and equitable manner. Still.....I never thought that most or even a significant number of police shootings were things that needed to be more vigorously questioned. When I heard of a police shooting, my first reaction was that it was a good shoot.

I've got several law enforcement professionals in my family...including my son....and I know for a fact that the the profession is not rife with vile racists and bigots.

However, since we have so much caught on video these days...and we see that unarmed men are being shot or killed by law enforcement officers, I've learned to wait for evidence before making the judgment. I am now aware that the odds of a bad shoot are much higher than I ever imagined.

I wonder if any other USMB members have undergone a similar change in thought?

I always admire the courage of a liberal who decides to come out and through intense soul searching admit you have come to realize the left is right ...

What's wrong with your argument is you're saying a few shootings that got on TV convinced you of the "odds." Yet you provided zero statistical data to back up the "odds."

What I will agree with you on is that I like that all these shootings are being filmed. Dirty cops should face the consequences of their crimes. But investigations should be fair, not witch hunts as the Democrats insist on pursuing

I think we should restrict the information that can be broadcast prior to an investigation and findings. I don't know how that can be done on social media, but it is pretty insane that all the tv news is broadcasting the evidence they may need in a criminal case. We Americans insist on too much information too soon. Nosy busybodies, imo.

Why should the government be able to cover up crimes?

I didn't say cover up. I said we could stand to wait instead of playing half-baked "investigators" and "judges" and "lawyers" without half the information necessary. Government should have a certain amount of time to complete an investigation--two weeks, a month, whatever is reasonable--and release the results to the public.

So in your fantasy world, government will only cover it up as long as necessary? You didn't say "cover up," but that's the result. The American government should never be prevented from disclosure to the American public, that's a huge step in enabling tyranny

Read my posts again. I didn't say they should not disclose the facts.