Hawking Says Universe Created Itself

[ding]

He may be brilliant, but he's dead wrong.

Hawking Says Universe Created Itself | The Institute for Creation Research

He may be.

But even if he is wrong, that doesn't mean the alternative explanation is that the universe was created by a Christian God.

People with strongly held religious beliefs attack science with the intent to dismantle explanations that are contrary to religious teachings so that they can offer a religious counter-argument, even though there is no empirical to support their claim.

Ummmm... not me. I love science. I don't see any good reason why science and faith are mutually exclusive.

As to your point about who God is, that question can't be answered until you accept that there is a Creator; a higher power so to speak.

 

[ding]

There is absolutely no evidence that the universe is spreading outward.

What?

Using the 100-inch Hooker Telescope at Mount Wilson Observatory, Dr. Edwin Hubble has studied many spiral nebulae. He has discovered they are moving away from us at a rapid pace. This is strong evidence of an expanding universe. He has further determined that the farther the nebula, the faster it moves away.
Universe is Expanding​

Redshift is not evidence that the universe is expanding.

It is evidence that everything is moving away from us and for that to happen the universe must be expanding. A consequence of an expanding universe is that the universe had a beginning. This makes certain people very uncomfortable.

 

[Freewill]

Very likely..Based on the laws of chemistry and physics it most certainly did.

If you don't believe this then i ask who or what created god? It is so much more simple to explain things with laws of science compared to figuring out how a super being developed out of nothing.

Laws of science = billions or even tens of billions of years for such processes to slowly come together.

God popped out of nothing! =

For God to be the cause of creation doesn't mean that God has to be defined as being created by anyone. To use the old story, you find a watch, you know a man made it, who created the man isn't relative.

 

[ding]

He may be brilliant, but he's dead wrong.

Hawking Says Universe Created Itself | The Institute for Creation Research

The universe always was

Matter cannot be created or destroyed

How many times do I have to say this? The universe cannot be eternal. It's a scientific impossibility. If it was eternal, there would be no energy left. It would have been used up an eternity ago. Damn! You're stupid.

It is a scientific impossibility for matter to self create itself
Energy is created.....matter is not

In string theory, we have a multiverse of universes. Think of our universe as the surface of a soap bubble, which is expanding. We live on the skin of this bubble. But string theory predicts that there should be other bubbles out there, which can collide with other bubbles or even sprout or bud baby bubbles, as in a bubble bath.

But how can an entire universe come out of nothing? This apparently violates the conservation of matter and energy. But there is a simple answer.

Matter, of course, has positive energy. But gravity has negative energy. (For example, you have to add energy to the earth in order to tear it away from the sun. One separated far from the solar system, the earth then has zero gravitational energy. But this means that the original solar system had negative energy.)

If you do the math, you find out that the sum total of matter in the universe can cancel against the sum total of negative gravitational energy, yielding a universe with zero (or close to zero) net matter/energy. So, in some sense, universes are for free. It does not take net matter and energy to create entire universes. In this way, in the bubble bath, bubbles can collide, create baby bubbles, or simple pop into existence from nothing.

Can a Universe Create Itself Out of Nothing?

This is correct. But since time and space were created through a quantum tunneling event following the laws of conservation, it means the laws of nature were already in place before space and time were created.

As to multiverse, no matter how you cut it there would have had to be a beginning because all multiverses have expansion and if you follow that point back in time every multiverse had a beginning all the way back to the very first one.

Inflation theory is eternal into the future but it is not eternal into the past.

 

[ding]

Very likely..Based on the laws of chemistry and physics it most certainly did.

If you don't believe this then i ask who or what created god? It is so much more simple to explain things with laws of science compared to figuring out how a super being developed out of nothing.

Laws of science = billions or even tens of billions of years for such processes to slowly come together.

God popped out of nothing! =

For God to be the cause of creation doesn't mean that God has to be defined as being created by anyone. To use the old story, you find a watch, you know a man made it, who created the man isn't relative.

The only solution to the first cause conundrum is something which has the attributes of being eternal and unchanging. A characteristic which is wholly outside the laws of nature.

 

[ding]

How many times do I have to say this? The universe cannot be eternal. It's a scientific impossibility. If it was eternal, there would be no energy left. It would have been used up an eternity ago. Damn! You're stupid.

It is a scientific impossibility for matter to self create itself
Energy is created.....matter is not

So, you agree with me. Matter was created. It's a start. Energy was also created. Nothing physical can be eternal. It cannot create itself either. That only leaves one explanation. God did it.

Matter has always been here
No additional matter has been created in billions of years
If there was a process to continually create new matter...it would still be occurring

God is a theory.....one totally unsubstantiated by science

Once again, I ask. Where is your evidence? There is no possible way that scientists could possibly know this. All they can do is observe and do experiments. None of that is applicable to why or how matter and energy exist.

If there is a physical process that creates matter it would be continuing today. Thee is no evidence of matter being created today

That's because it would occur outside of our space and time and therefore outside our realm of observation.

 

[ding]

He may be brilliant, but he's dead wrong.

Hawking Says Universe Created Itself | The Institute for Creation Research

The universe always was

Matter cannot be created or destroyed

How many times do I have to say this? The universe cannot be eternal. It's a scientific impossibility. If it was eternal, there would be no energy left. It would have been used up an eternity ago. Damn! You're stupid.

It is a scientific impossibility for matter to self create itself
Energy is created.....matter is not

So, you agree with me. Matter was created. It's a start. Energy was also created. Nothing physical can be eternal. It cannot create itself either. That only leaves one explanation. God did it.

There's no need for a god. If he's eternal so are universes that he creates. One dies yes but another is born.

No. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics precludes an infinite universe. If our universe were infinite we would have thermal equilibrium which we don't see.

 

[ding]

I'm surprised that TNHarley isn't here.

No, I'm not.

 

[Muhammed]

There is absolutely no evidence that the universe is spreading outward.

What?

Using the 100-inch Hooker Telescope at Mount Wilson Observatory, Dr. Edwin Hubble has studied many spiral nebulae. He has discovered they are moving away from us at a rapid pace. This is strong evidence of an expanding universe. He has further determined that the farther the nebula, the faster it moves away.
Universe is Expanding​

Redshift is not evidence that the universe is expanding.

It is evidence that everything is moving away from us and for that to happen the universe must be expanding. A consequence of an expanding universe is that the universe had a beginning. This makes certain people very uncomfortable.

I used to think that too when I was a little kid. That's what we were taught in elementary school. When I got older I put much deeper thought into it before coming to the logical conclusion that the universe is infinite and eternal.

 

[K9Buck]

God is not a being.
If the Universe created itself, is it not possible that the universe is God, og God is the universe?

No.

Correct. The painter is not the painting but the painting can be used as evidence for the painter.

No way man. That's crazy. The painting made itself. That's scientific! Saying that the painting had a painter is fucking insane man! Pass the bong!

 

[ding]

There is absolutely no evidence that the universe is spreading outward.

What?

Using the 100-inch Hooker Telescope at Mount Wilson Observatory, Dr. Edwin Hubble has studied many spiral nebulae. He has discovered they are moving away from us at a rapid pace. This is strong evidence of an expanding universe. He has further determined that the farther the nebula, the faster it moves away.
Universe is Expanding​

Redshift is not evidence that the universe is expanding.

It is evidence that everything is moving away from us and for that to happen the universe must be expanding. A consequence of an expanding universe is that the universe had a beginning. This makes certain people very uncomfortable.

I used to think that too when I was a little kid. That's what we were taught in elementary school. When I got older I put much deeper thought into it before coming to the logical conclusion that the universe is infinite and eternal.

Can't be. It's not possible. If the universe were eternal we would be at thermal equilibrium.

 

[ding]

God is not a being.
If the Universe created itself, is it not possible that the universe is God, og God is the universe?

No.

Correct. The painter is not the painting but the painting can be used as evidence for the painter.

No way man. That's crazy. The painting made itself. That's scientific! Saying that the painting had a painter is fucking insane man! Pass the bong!

The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics precludes an infinite acting universe. Therefore, the universe did have a beginning.

Background radiation, the red shift and solutions to Einstein's General Theory of Relativity tell us that all the matter in the universe occupied the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of an atom 14 billion years ago and then began to expand and cool. Every single cosmological model uses this as a starting point because that's what the observations tell us.

Inflation theory is the leading cosmological model which explains how space and time were created through a quantum tunneling event. An event which occurred per the laws of quantum mechanics and conservation of energy. Which means those laws were in place before space and time which means those laws were the first cause but still doesn't address the source or first cause of those laws. The only solution to that dilemma is something which is eternal and unchanging.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

Very likely..Based on the laws of chemistry and physics it most certainly did.

If you don't believe this then i ask who or what created god? It is so much more simple to explain things with laws of science compared to figuring out how a super being developed out of nothing.

Laws of science = billions or even tens of billions of years for such processes to slowly come together.

God popped out of nothing! =

But you're saying the universe popped out of nothing, Matty. Besides, isn't one of the established laws of the universe that uncontrolled energy can't create anything?

 

[K9Buck]

The only solution to that dilemma is something which is eternal and unchanging.

And outside of said universe...a creator.

 

[ding]

The only solution to that dilemma is something which is eternal and unchanging.

And outside of said universe...a creator.

Intelligence
Existence
Take your pick.

 

[K9Buck]

The only solution to that dilemma is something which is eternal and unchanging.

And outside of said universe...a creator.

Intelligence
Existence
Take your pick.

I'll go with a creator. How about you?

 

[ding]

The only solution to that dilemma is something which is eternal and unchanging.

And outside of said universe...a creator.

Intelligence
Existence
Take your pick.

I'll go with a creator. How about you?

Works for me. I don't think He cares what name we use for Him as long as we seek Him.

 

[Freewill]

Very likely..Based on the laws of chemistry and physics it most certainly did.

If you don't believe this then i ask who or what created god? It is so much more simple to explain things with laws of science compared to figuring out how a super being developed out of nothing.

Laws of science = billions or even tens of billions of years for such processes to slowly come together.

God popped out of nothing! =

For God to be the cause of creation doesn't mean that God has to be defined as being created by anyone. To use the old story, you find a watch, you know a man made it, who created the man isn't relative.

The only solution to the first cause conundrum is something which has the attributes of being eternal and unchanging. A characteristic which is wholly outside the laws of nature.

Using that logic, the whole universe is out of the laws of nature, in regards to the beginning.

 

[K9Buck]

Very likely..Based on the laws of chemistry and physics it most certainly did.

If you don't believe this then i ask who or what created god? It is so much more simple to explain things with laws of science compared to figuring out how a super being developed out of nothing.

Laws of science = billions or even tens of billions of years for such processes to slowly come together.

God popped out of nothing! =

For God to be the cause of creation doesn't mean that God has to be defined as being created by anyone. To use the old story, you find a watch, you know a man made it, who created the man isn't relative.

The only solution to the first cause conundrum is something which has the attributes of being eternal and unchanging. A characteristic which is wholly outside the laws of nature.

Using that logic, the whole universe is out of the laws of nature, in regards to the beginning.

Wrong.

Something had to give the initial push. The belief that the universe gave itself the initial push couldn't be more illogical.

 

[Freewill]

There is absolutely no evidence that the universe is spreading outward.

What?

Using the 100-inch Hooker Telescope at Mount Wilson Observatory, Dr. Edwin Hubble has studied many spiral nebulae. He has discovered they are moving away from us at a rapid pace. This is strong evidence of an expanding universe. He has further determined that the farther the nebula, the faster it moves away.
Universe is Expanding​

Redshift is not evidence that the universe is expanding.

It is evidence that everything is moving away from us and for that to happen the universe must be expanding. A consequence of an expanding universe is that the universe had a beginning. This makes certain people very uncomfortable.

I used to think that too when I was a little kid. That's what we were taught in elementary school. When I got older I put much deeper thought into it before coming to the logical conclusion that the universe is infinite and eternal.

The universe being infinite and eternal. Isn't that much like coming across a fire not knowing how it started and believing it to be infinite and eternal?